White Belt's Semi-Retirement

[7Wannabe5]

I think you would enjoy reading "A Pattern Language" if you haven't already. The rule-of-thumb for square footage of a home is very much like rule-of-thumb for $spent in lifestyle budget. The layout of rooms and quality of fixtures/features also very much matter within the total budget/footprint. I know we have covered this ground in the past, but theoretically 350 sq. ft. per human is pretty much happiness maximizing. Previously you were under-budget for footage and also absent other preferred qualities. Now you are maybe a bit over-budget for footage (pets need a bit of extra footprint and also those who work at home, or have very frequent guests, etc.) and also experiencing a better layout which provides the psychological benefit of "room of one's own" as well as other qualities of features/facilities/freedoms which better serve your preferences/psychological needs. So, little wonder that you find yourself happier with new home.

However, it's also entirely possible that the larger size of your new home is making you feel a bit more lonely than you would otherwise with your wife being gone 80+ hours/week, because the space in your home that is designated communal is only occupied by small cats. When I was a young teenager in the late 70s/early 80s, it was an era when many couples were suddenly feeling free to divorce, and inflation and housing values were increasingly rapidly. So, this resulted in frequently encountering in my babysitting rounds the sad circumstance of a divorced Dad living by himself in virtually empty 2000 sq.ft. plus family home with nothing left in the combined living room/dining room space, but a stereo and stack of albums (which always seemed to include ELO.)

[Western Red Cedar]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on homeownerships and transitions. When i read your post a few days ago, I actually thought you might benefit from A Pattern Language as well. I think it is out of print, but you can find a link to the PDF somewhere on the forum.

In a way, home upgrades are just another form of consumption, even if many of them can be completed DIY at relatively low financial cost. I could easily make the argument that very few of the changes we have made to the house are FUNCTIONAL improvements. We could have kept the original kitchen which had working appliances, cabinetry, and countertop space. The layout was functionally irritating and aesthetically ugly, but not unusable. Instead, we [paid to] knock down a wall, cover up a door, get wraparound cabinets/countertops, new lighting, larger windows, and replace all the appliances. The feel of the space is dramatically improved, which is something that everyone experiences in the space (to include us each day)......

I do wonder at what point I am just using home improvement as replacement for other forms of consumption. I spent a few dollars and minutes to replace the light switch in my room with a rocker switch. Likely no one in the world other than DW and I will ever notice such a thing or give it a second thought (except perhaps when we sell the house). The old switch was functionally adequate but now is in a landfill. Nevertheless, I touch and look at the new switch every day and it feels better to me. Where do I draw the line at things that look/feel better only to me? Why not replace all of xyz in the house if it will look better or make me feel better? Am I now doomed to feel slightly dissatisfied in every space that I have to touch an old-style light switch?

I've never owned a home, but I think there is something to be said for good design and beautiful spaces. If you are doing the work yourself, those changes provide a reoccurring sense of accomplishment. A frugal lifestyle will likely lead to quite a bit of time at home. Having a space that you enjoy, a place where you can invite others, and one that fosters creativity is important IMO. I don't think ERE has to be synonymous with a spartan existence.

[Stasher]

We have been in our current home for coming up on 12 years now and 100% the costs keep creeping up on you as there is no end. We have done plumbing repairs and upgrades as needed, then replaced the last old aluminum slider windows from the 70s with modern triple pane, we replaced our hot water heater, we replaced kitchen faucet (dang they are pricey), we had major arborist yard work completed, rebuilt the alley way fence and so many more small things like you mention. Our heat pump is well over 15 years old and we are bracing ourself for the costly replacement when the time comes. Then the biggest home cost is literally hanging over our heads, we have a rolled torch on shingle low slope roof that needs replacement and won't be cheap.

I know we will get this all back in the equity that has more than doubled since we bought it but still doesn't help with the cash that flows out when you own a home. I feel the same thoughts as you in your reflection above, love the home and the space but understand it costs far more than the price of the home to have this as our place to live.

[chenda]

2% of the property's value per annum is a rule of thumb for long term maintenance costs on a property. The amount will fluctuate over time, as white goods tend to break at the same as they are often installed at the same time.

[white belt]

I think you would enjoy reading "A Pattern Language" if you haven't already.

[...]

However, it's also entirely possible that the larger size of your new home is making you feel a bit more lonely than you would otherwise with your wife being gone 80+ hours/week, because the space in your home that is designated communal is only occupied by small cats. When I was a young teenager in the late 70s/early 80s, it was an era when many couples were suddenly feeling free to divorce, and inflation and housing values were increasingly rapidly. So, this resulted in frequently encountering in my babysitting rounds the sad circumstance of a divorced Dad living by himself in virtually empty 2000 sq.ft. plus family home with nothing left in the combined living room/dining room space, but a stereo and stack of albums (which always seemed to include ELO.)

Yeah, I've been referencing "A Pattern Language" a bit. It's very good to understand how to shape the form of the home to match functionality.

I haven't noticed feeling lonely in my house, although interestingly DW did say she felt like the house was lonely when I was gone for a week on a recent trip. I think that might have to do with the fact that I am accustomed to being home alone all day while she is accustomed to me being home most evenings when she is here. At ~1200 square feet the house doesn't feel cavernous, but that might also have something to do with the layout. We use all of the rooms on our 1st floor daily, while the 2nd floor has the less frequently used (DW office/guest bed) room. In other words, what I see/touch daily feels not all that different than a 2 bed/1 bath apartment. I imagine if I everyday saw dust collecting on an unused formal dining room, den, etc in addition to our existing dining room/kitchen/living room then I might feel differently. We also bought this house for 2 bedrooms and 2 pets so it feels like it fits us, whereas the empty nesters often feel lonely after a 4-5 person household turns into a 1-2 person household.

So far, I've enjoyed the optionality of more space. We've had friends and relatives visit as well as hosted a housewarming party. I've found that the warmth that comes from others enjoying the space seems to linger for weeks or longer after such occasions. There is satisfaction and validation to me that comes from others enjoying our well-designed space. I think this is compounded by the fact that this house was a bit of a fixer upper, so I can also reference before/after photos. I think I would feel differently if we had bought new modern construction that didn't require any renovation/improvement.

Single guy living in a dismal, under-furnished space seems to be a timeless meme. Even in this modern/egalitarian era I think the majority of men spend absolutely zero time thinking about their living spaces until they cohabitate with a partner. In my mid 20's I lived in a 4 bedroom house with 2 male roommates and I think I was the only one that even owned a bedframe. They would just put a mattress on the floor and then maybe have a dresser for clothes (I think one of them just left his clothes in the laundry basket so maybe didn't even have that). One guy had his own bathroom and didn't clean it once for the entire 1.5 year period that I lived there. Our dining room was a walmart folding table with outdoor plastic chairs that I provided. Our living room was a couple of chairs with a cardboard box as a TV stand. The only place that had anything hanging on the wall was my bedroom. I was also the only one that ever had a girl over (correlation/causation?).

[white belt]

I've never owned a home, but I think there is something to be said for good design and beautiful spaces. If you are doing the work yourself, those changes provide a reoccurring sense of accomplishment. A frugal lifestyle will likely lead to quite a bit of time at home. Having a space that you enjoy, a place where you can invite others, and one that fosters creativity is important IMO. I don't think ERE has to be synonymous with a spartan existence.

I read your comment after writing my response to @7W5 but that is exactly it.

[white belt]

We have been in our current home for coming up on 12 years now and 100% the costs keep creeping up on you as there is no end. We have done plumbing repairs and upgrades as needed, then replaced the last old aluminum slider windows from the 70s with modern triple pane, we replaced our hot water heater, we replaced kitchen faucet (dang they are pricey), we had major arborist yard work completed, rebuilt the alley way fence and so many more small things like you mention. Our heat pump is well over 15 years old and we are bracing ourself for the costly replacement when the time comes. Then the biggest home cost is literally hanging over our heads, we have a rolled torch on shingle low slope roof that needs replacement and won't be cheap.

I know we will get this all back in the equity that has more than doubled since we bought it but still doesn't help with the cash that flows out when you own a home. I feel the same thoughts as you in your reflection above, love the home and the space but understand it costs far more than the price of the home to have this as our place to live.

So far I haven't had many unexpected repair expenses, but it's been less than a year. We bought a home at the bottom of our price range with the cost of repairs in mind. Well actually I'm coming up on my first unexpected repair cost as I need to run new romex wiring to several outlets and light fixtures since they still have the original cloth wiring. I have since learned it is really common for "updated electrical" in old houses to only be new wiring from the breaker to the first set of junction boxes, but not to all outlets/fixtures/switches. I'm still trying to decide if I'm going to tackle that myself or spend $$$ to have an electrician do it.

The house actually appraised at ~$18k above what we paid for it and we've done a lot of improvements since. My area doesn't really have wide price fluctuations, so it's likely that I will do a cash-out refinance if interest rates drop at some point. The nice thing about house appreciation in the USA is it is exempt from capital gains tax for up to $500k profit if married.

[7Wannabe5]

Single guy living in a dismal, under-furnished space seems to be a timeless meme. Even in this modern/egalitarian era I think the majority of men spend absolutely zero time thinking about their living spaces until they cohabitate with a partner.

And it's also the case that the most successful bachelors I have met do a much better job of this for themselves. If a guy's apartment/house looks like something out of Dwell magazine. and he is a more than decent cook, highly likely that he is also a player. The worst is when divorced guys keep the marital house and don't change anything. Like his ex has been out of the picture for 8 years, but the silk flowers she arranged on the shelf in the bathroom are still there covered with dust.

Women do the same thing, but generally/stereotypically more likely in the realms of financial functioning, car maintenance, or lawn mowing. Semi-consciously we know that if we completely eliminate the advantages to be gained through division of labor*, the likelihood we will choose to domestically partner or re-partner up is greatly reduced. And, it is also the case that we semi-consciously look for these "Help Wanted/Needed" signals from others.

*According to some experts in the field of Economic Anthropology, all division of labor is based upon the initial tendency towards gender based division of labor.

[white belt]

One of many things I haven't quite resolved in my semi-retirement is a way to satisfy my "work hard, play hard" tendencies. It should be noted that I have at times tested closer to XNTJ or ENTJ, especially in environments that really bring out those sort of traits (e.g. the military). I'm coming to terms with the fact that this is a permanent part of me. I'm now part time in the military, but I do notice that I often feel refreshed after spending a weekend doing military training. There is definitely a cross-over point which I think is maybe 3ish days after which I start to feel drained and require several days of recovery. I'm not sure if refreshed is the right word, but I think it's more accurate to say that perhaps I feel accomplished or satisfied in a way that I haven't quite been able to replicate routinely. Sure, I occasionally knock something off the to do list that makes me feel accomplished, but that's not quite the same.

Looking back on it, I think the work hard, play hard lifestyle when taken to extremes in career fields such as the military is addicting. I'm pretty sure I wrote about this before, but it's hard for me to not feel at least somewhat fulfilled when I'm experiencing the full range of the human experience in the highest highs and lowest lows. At the same time my logical brain thinks back to times full of discomfort and is glad I don't have to do that today. This issue may resolve itself once I am back to a structured weightlifting routine because that satisfies some of the urge to feel like I did something hard and/or made some progress each day.

I also haven't had an easy time finding others to "play hard" with. As I get older, my traditional group of friends gets more entwined with job responsibilities, family responsibilities (soon will have kids), and so on. They have less time and energy to commit to any sort of "fun" activities, so it seems the default turns into something like the consumer classic of just getting an expensive dinner. I have one friend who has a flexible work schedule so I can play disc golf with him weekly, however I don't really encounter anyone under age 60 who is available during the day. I know these people exist, but it seems like my neighborhood is mostly young families and (grandparent) retirees. I am still a 15 minute train ride from the hustle/bustle city, however I've found it feels hard to try to make new friends or do new activities when I am now married in my 30s. When DW and I were still doing long distance towards the end of my active duty time, I found myself hanging out with a bit younger crowd in their mid 20s because they actually were available and interested in doing activities together. Nowadays, weeknights and the occasional weekend are the times that I have to spend with DW, yet that is also the only time when most people are free to do "fun" activities.

I know this isn't a unique or insurmountable problem, as other forumites seem to find plenty of ways to do interesting things during the day in retirement/semi-retirement.

[ertyu]

I know these people exist, but

This might call for you actively organizing meetups for activities you're interested in (or otherwise publicizing them, idk if meetups are still a thing). Casting the net wider geographically makes sense, too. I guess it all comes down to figuring out what activities you'd like to do and then figuring out the locally relevant ways to put it out there that you're looking for others to join you.

[NewBlood]

I don't really encounter anyone under age 60 who is available during the day. I know these people exist, but it seems like my neighborhood is mostly young families and (grandparent) retirees. I am still a 15 minute train ride from the hustle/bustle city, however I've found it feels hard to try to make new friends or do new activities when I am now married in my 30s.

I would encourage you to actively try to figure this out and find your people, because it will not get better once you hit your 40s (ask me how I know...). But they are out there! Plenty of people with different schedules than the 9 to 5. The key is to figure out where they hang out and what activities will help you find them.

[7Wannabe5]

One of many things I haven't quite resolved in my semi-retirement is a way to satisfy my "work hard, play hard" tendencies.

I am definitely not "work hard, play hard" (E..J) type myself, but for some likely-opposites-attract-type* reason this type frequently attempts to date and/or domesticate me, so I have often witnessed this problem in action. Two possible solutions would be (1) actively recruit (as opposed to simply trying to find) your own crew/team and/or (2) acquire some acreage or multiple rental housing units to flip or similar large scale, large muscle/tool project.

*Or due to the fact that an XNtP is likely to be an enthusiastic, actively-intelligent side-kick for the first 3 months learning curve of any new-enough project. I have attempted to solve this "problem" from my own perspective by arranging several "work hard, play hard" types around me in a manner most likely to solicit just the "play hard" at a rate of around 4 hrs/week, but I will not attempt to claim that this systems design has been entirely successful.

[Scott 2]

Finding joy in those small improvements well serve you well. Over 10 years the compounding effect of skill development and ongoing maintenance will more than pay for itself.

As someone who hates that stuff, our home has a lot of small annoyances that add up. It's definitely a rewarding interest to cultivate.


I haven't encountered many who play hard outside of traditional leisure hours. The daily and weekly cadence are set by society at large. People cluster accordingly.

Weekday mornings are for seniors, the afternoons for homemakers and kids. It's rare to encounter a man between 25-55, that isn't actively squeezing things in around work.