COVID topic vol 2

[white belt]

I am 95% certain I’ve been vaccinated for multiple diseases at once. I’d have to look at my medical records but just off the top of my head I know I received anthrax and maybe yellow fever on the same visit. It’s common practice in the military to get multiple shots one after the other (I think my personal record is 4).

[CS]

Based on the fact it's the biggest market in that Bubble.

When the market is near every person in a country, I think this is irrelevant. Also, one of the vaccine makers is doing this for cost until the the pandemic is over, which is not really going to benefit the relatively rich USA

Vaccines from other Bubbles don't exist e.g. the Russian vaccine which doesn't exist [here].

This falls under the state control/personal control vector as the Chinese vaccine. There are other reasons besides dollars on why many Americans and Westerners would not want those drugs. Also, can you imagine the James Bond type machinations of such great access for targeted assassinations?

The Bubbles which were hard-nosed enough to do human challenge trials squashed covid by other means back in April so why would they court the controversy just to benefit foreigners [who will pretend they don't exist anyway].

What does this mean? I don't understand this sentence on the communication level. Can you please try explaining a different way?

[Ego]

Well, I know for sure there is a one month waiting period between Shingrix and Pneumovax 23. Since the common side effects to the mRNA Covid vaccines are similar to those of Shingrix I would guess they will be extra careful.

Here is the beginning of the discussion on the MMR vaccine https://youtu.be/4hGVeZGfEnU?t=4326

[Ego]

"Training" it with different vaccines simultaneously might not be [as] effective. Of course, MMR trains for three at the same time.

They mention this in one of the recent pods. There has been some speculation that vaccination induced interferon is at least partially responsible for the stronger immune responses to the covid virus. Also, this was the first time I had heard that pre-vaccinated infants are susceptible to covid.

[nomadscientist]

When the market is near every person in a country, I think this is irrelevant. Also, one of the vaccine makers is doing this for cost until the the pandemic is over, which is not really going to benefit the relatively rich USA

In other words for good PR, which is even less well served by head-on confrontation with the woke junta that controls all information dissemination media.

This falls under the state control/personal control vector as the Chinese vaccine. There are other reasons besides dollars on why many Americans and Westerners would not want those drugs. Also, can you imagine the James Bond type machinations of such great access for targeted assassinations?

Certain people think some foreigners are icky and not others; it's all just a loyalty display at the end of the day. All of it.

What does this mean? I don't understand this sentence on the communication level. Can you please try explaining a different way?

It means I could see China doing human challenge trials. Maybe Singapore, Vietnam. But they didn't need to. Russia not; it isn't the Stalin days any more; they even had to lie about casualties in Crimea.

[jacob]

Vaccine FAQ [very long]

https://elemental.medium.com/every-covi ... 0eeb334ded

[Ego]

At some point soon we will be back to work and those with vaccination immunity will be walking around asymptomatically spewing coronaviruses all over everyone.

I couldn't sleep so I went for a run with my headlamp and listened to the TWiV podcast that was released a few hours ago. It turns out to be much worse than I expected. Listen for a little more than three minutes from the starting point as they discuss the vaccine trial results.

https://youtu.be/RQxepsLIGLM?t=1735

Alan: If you had a vaccine that was purely protective and not sterilizing, you could vaccinate 100% of the population and then one person comes along who is not vaccinated, they can get the virus and die.

Vincent: Yeah, cause those 100% are still shedding, right?

Alan: Those 100% could still be spreading it like crazy and probably would be because they'd be safe.

Vincent: Well, according to the numbers here, if you do the low-dose, high-dose (protocol) that leaves 58 percent. That leaves quite a large percentage that is not protected and will still be shedding.

Alan: That means you can't get to herd immunity with this if those numbers hold in larger populations.

Vincent: So, what's the outcome of this? We have to wear masks forever?

.....

Brianna: It also means that we might need distancing and things like that as longer term changes.

ETA, it appears that those with moderate to severe allergies will not able to be vaccinated because some with allergies have had severe reactions to it. At lease some of those with allergies are more susceptible to have a severe case of Covid if they get infected. So those with allergies will be unvaccinated and living in a world full of asymptomatic spreaders who no longer feel the need to follow the rules because they got the vaccine.

ETA2: They also mentioned the NY Times vaccine calculator that allows people to enter a few pieces of information to find out how many people will be in line in front of them for the vaccine.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... eline.html

I believed that as an essential worker I would be in the first round. It turns out I was wrong. I guess they are differentiating between essential workers who can social-distance and those who cannot, which makes perfect sense.

Based on your risk profile, we believe you’re in line behind 257.2 million people across the United States.

[ZAFCorrection]

@Ego

In that case I imagine that with the introduction of a vaccine the number of deaths will fall significantly in a continuous fashion, but not go to zero for at least a few years. It would be interesting to probe how the cost-benefit analysis evolves under those conditions (e.g. deaths per capita significantly below that of flu, not zero, and with enhanced social distancing requirements because reasons).

[Ego]

@ZAFCorrection, the people who are dying now are those with weak immune systems (old, metabolically malfeasant , immunocompromised) and those on the other end of the spectrum with hyperimmune response. The former have traditionally died from the flu or pneumonia, in part because they fail to mount an adequate response to the flu/pneumonia vaccines and in part because they are weaker in general. The latter, those with overactive immune response, will not be permitted to get the Covid vaccine because of potential allergic reaction.

Unsurprisingly, vaccine trails skew young and healthy. The first vaccine recipients will skew older and less healthy. Everyone will be shocked when the late-winter / spring data shows that the vaccines do not work as well as advertised for those who are old, metabese and immunocompromised. They will need strict social-distancing until the twelfth of never.

Pressure will mount to continue the new abnormal for everyone, indefinitely until (insert next miracle on the horizon) because the vaccines will create a world full of the dreaded asymptomatic spreaders. Most people will get the jab and create just enough antibodies and T Cells. They will still get infected by the virus and will shed it like a Saint Bernard. They just won't get sick. Chances are they wouldn't have gotten sick anyway. But let's not talk too much about that.

Meanwhile the lockdowns will continue to create more depressed, drunk, drugged, metabolically sick people who are dry tinder for next winter. Rinse and repeat.

Or not. What do I know?
Cost / benefit analysis will be interesting.

[IlliniDave]

My customer counterpart at work lost both his parents to covid over the weekend. They were in a nursing home together and Thursday afternoon he was informed they were both positive. His dad passed Friday night and his mom Saturday morning. They both had serious health problems. He hadn't been able to see either of them for almost 8 months. Interestingly, they were also born one day apart. 2020 sucks.

[jacob]

US: FDA approves prescription-free/over the counter/do everything yourself at home rapid test.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-a ... diagnostic

[jennypenny]

FIL tested positive today. There's an outbreak at the facility where he's recovering from a stroke. It sucks to have made it this far and then contract it just as the vaccine is rolling out.

[Ego]

Covid Travel Passport

https://www.iata.org/en/programs/passenger/travel-pass/

To re-open borders without quarantine and restart aviation governments need to be confident that they are effectively mitigating the risk of importing COVID-19. This means having accurate information on passengers’ COVID-19 health status.

Informing passengers on what tests, vaccines and other measures they require prior to travel, details on where they can get tested and giving them the ability to share their tests and vaccination results in a verifiable, safe and privacy-protecting manner is the key to giving governments the confidence to open borders. To address this challenge IATA is working on launching the IATA Travel Pass, a digital platform for passengers.

[J_]

Rant
For what I have found in the litterature is that there exists a direct relation to one’s health and one’s vulnerability to vira. With an excelent health the chance that a (covid) virus will harm you seriously is negligible (edit:for about 93% of all people). Our human immune system can handle that.

The crux is that (I am convinced that) every-one without an inborn- or by accident aquired illness, and every-one who has enough money to buy food, and who can spare enough time to move and rest, can obtain optimal health. It needs one’s inclination to get such a health. I know, this rant also not pointed to the very poor or sick, it is directed to all others who are not.

Day in day out the news media, our politicians our governments and so called specialitsts are warning us about „safety distance, mask wearing and meet as little people as possible”.
These measures are neccessary to make the number of seriously infected low enough to keep the hospitals out of the danger-zone of being overload.

But it does not cure the real thing. The real thing is in my opinion first and most workable*: strengtening your body’s immune system.

It requires for many people that they study a little about the direct relation between health and food. It requires to search for non biased information, because lots and lots of (paid) influencers, lobbies, farm/fish/food industries, are permanently busy to scatter around misinformation about their unhealthy products. Evil propaganda it is.
Therefore real and in time consistent journalism is necessary to unveil the truth about healty food. Sometimes some papers give such information, but the next day an misguided or unethical other journalist can write the opposite in the same newspaper. Leaving the readers in limbo…

It requires (sometimes) to change food habits, to change drinking habits, to change the time spend idle on screens or other things in stead of sufficient sleep and move. Those changes are possible..if one really want.

It requires often to change in preparing food yourself instead of buying processed food, to avoid unhealthy conserving stuff and avoid unhealthy added taste „enhancers”.

The reward for such is an optimal health. Such a healthy body saves you a lot of worries in these times of contamination.

I wish for an relentless public drumming out (hammering on?) of these facts! May you all help me to get it spread….(if you agree of course)

* I consider the second important thing what Jacob wrote about deminishing the zoönotic dangers.

[chenda]

The reward for such is an optimal health[/b]. Such a healthy body saves you a lot of worries in these times of contamination.

Healthy living won't stop a pandemic, and linking the two would encourage complacency and a higher transmission rate. Which we've seen with young asymptomatic people.

[J_]

Yes chenda, it won't stop, but it would get sting (danger) about contamination.

[jacob]

With an excelent health the chance that a (covid) virus will harm you seriously is negligible. Our human immune system can handle that.

That is simply not true. Comorbidities are nowhere near 100% so it is false to say that only the unhealthy die. The odds of not dying or not getting admitted to the hospital are certainly higher for a healthy and/or young individual, but it's no guarantee. The human immune system can not always handle covid19.

[J_]

@Jacob: I wrote it is neglible to get harmed seriously. You are right that there is no 100% guaranty. I did not stated so.
Thanks for making my rant (a bit) more precise. Especially as you wrote that the odds are certainly higher with a healthy body, I see that you agree.

[Campitor]

That is simply not true. Comorbidities are nowhere near 100% so it is false to say that only the unhealthy die. The odds of not dying or not getting admitted to the hospital are certainly higher for a healthy and/or young individual, but it's no guarantee. The human immune system can not always handle covid19.

And since people keep getting infected there's always the potential the virus evolves into a deadly strain that can kill those who were previously not at risk. The Spanish Flu behaved this way.

Why the Second Wave of the 1918 Spanish Flu Was So Deadly:

Reported cases of Spanish flu dropped off over the summer of 1918, and there was hope at the beginning of August that the virus had run its course. In retrospect, it was only the calm before the storm. Somewhere in Europe, a mutated strain of the Spanish flu virus had emerged that had the power to kill a perfectly healthy young man or woman within 24 hours of showing the first signs of infection.

[jacob]

@Jacob: I wrote it is neglible to get harmed seriously. You are right that there is no 100% guaranty. I did not stated so.
Thanks for making my rant (a bit) more precise. Especially as you wrote that the odds are certainly higher with a healthy body, I see that you agree.

No, I do not agree. Higher odds do not imply negligible risk. Comorbidities are on the order of 90-95%. This means that 5-10% of healthy people still die. Otherwise fit and healthy people have died or turned into long haulers with chronic fatigue syndrome, mental fog, lost lung capacity, etc. months after being infected. Young people too. Being healthy increases the odds similarly to wearing a seat belt when driving but it does not make the risk of serious injury negligible.

You can say you're willing to take the risk but you can not say it is negligible. 5-10% is not negligible.

In short, I took your rant to imply that you think that being healthy means you're largely immune to the effects of CV19. That is not the case.