Getting old sucks

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jennypenny
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by jennypenny » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:47 pm

Lol ... I'm growing out my blonde hair and letting the grey come in, and I'm starting to wish I'd done it in my 40s when I was not at war with my body.

cmonkey
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by cmonkey » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:00 pm

I went through a period of time last year where I was thinking about getting older/health issues/death a lot and have finally started getting past it a bit. I realized it wasn't death itself that I was afraid of, but rather some sort of sickness before death, similar to how sliding off of a slippery road into the ditch isn't nearly as bad as driving miles and miles on icy roads fearing an accident. I had become a bit paranoid about getting sick at a really young age and missing out on so much of life.

Now that I have a baby with a heart problem, the same old thoughts have sort of crept back, but I'm keeping them at bay and just enjoying each day with her. DW and I are in good health and so is she. I try to remember Mr Scamander's advice on worrying about things you can't completely control - if suffering may be in your future, why choose to experience it twice?

Campitor
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Campitor » Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:37 am

cmonkey wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:00 pm
I went through a period of time last year where I was thinking about getting older/health issues/death a lot ...
Death and sickness comes regardless so why ever think about it? Just force your thoughts to something else. I'm not being trite - this actually worked for me. I was obsessed with death and aging when I was in my teens - these thoughts would occur mostly at night when I was trying to fall asleep. Then, after a time, I realized these thoughts have little constructive value since there's absolutely nothing I could do about it; thank you stoicism. Everytime the fear of death or aging crept into my thoughts, I'd force myself to think of other pleasant or constructive things or focus on what I had to be thankful for.

Paula
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Paula » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:31 am

I don't believe I fear death. I fear a bad death.

As I get older I notice the difference more and more. Flying on a Boeing 737 MAX doesn't scare me in the least. Dying of a stroke causes no distress.

Living after a debilitating stroke is terrifying.

Augustus
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Augustus » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:54 pm

Campitor wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:37 am
Then, after a time, I realized these thoughts have little constructive value since there's absolutely nothing I could do about it; thank you stoicism. Everytime the fear of death or aging crept into my thoughts, I'd force myself to think of other pleasant or constructive things or focus on what I had to be thankful for.
I think it's a diminishing returns situation. It is valuable to think about death every so often, but the value lies in course correcting your life. If you aren't getting enough satisfaction/joy out of it you ought to change that, otherwise what's the point? If you think about it too much, you're not learning anything new, so it's wasting your time. If you think about it say once a month for 10 minutes, it still provides value.

Kriegsspiel
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Kriegsspiel » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:00 pm

You don't even have to get old, if you don't want to. The Romans used to fall on their sword when they didn't want to go on. They loved it, I'm pretty sure it was the #2 cause of death after getting thrown to the lions. Samurai too. They STABBED THEMSELVES TO DEATH instead of shamefully dying of old age like a punk. Now we have fentanyl-laced heroin. We've come so far.

Mister Imperceptible
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Mister Imperceptible » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 pm

That would solve the coming retirement crisis.

tonyedgecombe
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by tonyedgecombe » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:28 am

Mister Imperceptible wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 pm
That would solve the coming retirement crisis.
Life expectancy is falling off quickly in the UK, I always wondered if obesity and diabetes would be our pensions saviour.

J_
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by J_ » Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:42 am

Just looking around and you see for yourself that life expectancy is in decline. Journalists as in this Guardian paper are a kind of surprised. Are people blind for the fact that so many persons are getting ill because of their bad lifestyle?
In a world where the food industry has no scruples, governments are prone to lobbying, where the doctors are only looking at symptoms and medical remedies instead of commenting about lifestyle and food ( and most of them have themselves no clue about good nutrition), where most people do not pay attention (or think they have no time) to use their body well, dead will come quickly. Or, even worse, sickness, pain, mental decline, body function decline.
I am getting older now, but it does not suck. Part of it is that I am in good health while paying a lot of attention to a healthy lifestyle (for decades now), part of it will be luck. Getting healthy older implies a lot of "work". But nice work, satis-factional work. Studying about food and practicing it by preparing your food yourself, trying out new sports and exercises, reading and practicing philosophy to stay mentally balanced. And be prepared that life ends one time, accepting that some of your capacities (will) decline but others grow.

prognastat
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by prognastat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:03 am

Some other reasons for the shrinking life expectancy are increases in suicide and opioid overdose.

EdithKeeler
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by EdithKeeler » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:17 pm

Just looking around and you see for yourself that life expectancy is in decline. Journalists as in this Guardian paper are a kind of surprised. Are people blind for the fact that so many persons are getting ill because of their bad lifestyle?
Is it attributable to bad lifestyle, though? Cancer deaths are down. Heart disease is leveling off. Opioid and suicide deaths are way up. Flu deaths were up last year. Alzheimer’s is killing more people, probably because people are living longer. Infant mortality is up in the US.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... story.html

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc. ... y-rate-usa

Augustus
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Augustus » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:09 pm

I'm pretty sure if we eliminated cars, which as a side effect would eliminate most obesity, and cure a lot of depression, and make it harder to get drugs, life expectancy would go up. I love looking at old pictures of america, circa 1920 there were almost no fat people at all. It's amazing how as cars became common, obesity became the norm.

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jennypenny
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by jennypenny » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:41 pm

Augustus wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:09 pm
I'm pretty sure if we eliminated cars, which as a side effect would eliminate most obesity ...
It would also eliminate automobile fatalities (2% of all deaths every year) which would raise life expectancy since teens account for a disproportionately large percentage of those.

J_
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by J_ » Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:04 pm

EdithKeeler wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:17 pm
Is it attributable to bad lifestyle, though? Cancer deaths are down. Heart disease is leveling off. Opioid and suicide deaths are way up. Flu deaths were up last year. Alzheimer’s is killing more people, probably because people are living longer..
Yes it is attributable to bad lifestyle in the broad sense I mentioned above. Alzheimers disease is caused by a plague in your brain veins. This plague comes from wrong nutrition. See https://youtu.be/t-noCw4LsY4. And yes you have to start as early as possible in your life to study and apply that knowledge about food.
It is like Ere: first you must become aware that there is such a life, than you have to internalize it and then you can reach it. So it is with health, you must become aware that health is a precious thing, and you have to search for information a lot about nutrition, and about rest and about the use of your body. And then internalize that knowledge and do accordingly. One is free to neglect but must helas bear the bad consequenses.

Sclass
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Sclass » Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:48 am

J_ wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 3:04 pm
Yes it is attributable to bad lifestyle in the broad sense I mentioned above. Alzheimers disease is caused by a plague in your brain veins. This plague comes from wrong nutrition. See https://youtu.be/t-noCw4LsY4.
Thanks for posting this. Interesting video.

My mother had dementia. Her diet changed a lot over her life from healthy to downright awful. She was a health food nut in the 1960s to the 1980s. As she got older and lazier she subsisted on KFC and TV dinners. She had a bunch of reasons for the lifestyle change but it mostly boiled down to frugality and ease of preparation.

She spun out after a few years on this and declined into a ten year battle with dementia. I always wondered if this was what started the disease. Or was it that she was just genetically programmed to break down at 72?

For her first few years of care when she was more independent I used a caregiver who cooked unhealthy food. I took my eyes off the ball because it was easy to let the caregiver plan and handle the meals. Chorizo and eggs diet followed by Ensure as she got worse. Mom was being taken care of and I’d only have to deal with administrative duties once a month so I just let things go a few years.

We had a shakeup a few years into this and I ended up bringing in different people. The diet changed. I started using Internet grocery delivery (which was evolving during this time) to get good food delivered to the home. The new team knew how to cook it up and purée it for my mom as she lost her ability to eat by herself.

Too little too late. She kept declining. Was it food? Possibly. I just don’t know now.

What people eat has really changed a lot in the last fifty years. It is really easy to eat trash and a lot of it for little money. What does the data say to me? People are eating more trash for longer lifespans. I need to remember to not repeat my mom’s experiment.

The Old Man
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by The Old Man » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:23 am

Remember that correlation does not mean causation. Dementia has been correlated with poor diet, poor dental health, and the use of Viagra/Cialis. With that said healthful living will likely delay onset and the progression of the disease once begun. It appears that Dementia is inevitable as we age; the only question is when it begins (clinically diagnosed) and how fast it progresses.

Early onset Dementia seems to have genetic cause.

Augustus
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Augustus » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:36 am

IIRC they are finding links to gum disease for Alzheimer's. Also inflammation, which can be caused by diet among other things.

7Wannabe5
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 am

The Old Man wrote:Remember that correlation does not mean causation.
Agree. The brain is very sugar hungry, so some mental illnesses, such as bi-polar disease, will cause intense sugar craving. I once did an experiment with my otherwise very thin, yoga-for-an-hour-every-day fit, cyclothymic sister to see how much fresh fruit salad it would take to quench her sugar craving, and it was more than 2 quarts.

Sclass
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by Sclass » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:05 pm

Augustus wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:36 am
IIRC they are finding links to gum disease for Alzheimer's. Also inflammation, which can be caused by diet among other things.
Funny thing about my mom is had great teeth and gums. I think it was genetic. She didn’t take particularly good care of her oral hygiene but her gums were always very healthy. This was odd because my dad’s mouth just flared with bacterial inflammation despite his meticulous flossing and brushing. The difference was stunning. Perhaps the biochemistry of her mouth was hospitable to a more beneficial biome.

As for inflammation...yep, mom had flare ups of rheumatoid arthritis. Oddly they correlated with her early episodes of spacing out. She’d have or good days and her muddled days and her red swollen knuckles were like a flag saying “today I’m going to be mentally useless”. I tried to convince my siblings of the relationship but nobody believed me. When the swelling went away her brain fog would clear. This was in years 1-4. By years 5-9 she was out of it all the time.

I still feel guilty not being able to check if the caregivers were religiously dosing her with her anti inflammatory prescription drugs. They seemed to help the flare ups but the help was lazy if I wasn’t on them all the time. The refills on the drugs were irregular suggesting slip ups in dosing. I’ve made a mental note to myself to pay very close attention to any arthritic flare ups as I get on in the years. Just another mystery for me to ponder.

Also +1 on the causation correlation. If we only understood the mechanisms perfectly...,

J_
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Re: Getting old sucks

Post by J_ » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:05 pm

The Old Man wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:23 am
It appears that Dementia is inevitable as we age; the only question is when it begins (clinically diagnosed) and how fast it progresses.
The more you study about it the more it appears that it is not(simple) age what causes it. And please do not repeat the same "correlation is not causation" stuff before you have tried to be informed. Otherwise you are repeating all the (most now dead) smokers who said that it was not proven that smoking leads to cancer.

It is as well rather unknown that many (modern?) diseases are (in the beginning) reversible: diabetes 2, asthma, arteriosclerosis, liver-diseases, heart-diseases and more by changing lifestyle in the broad sense. Look it up yourself.

@Sclass I do not think that you have to blame yourself, it was your mother herself in the time she was compos mentis who changed lifestyle. And my remarks are for the people who live now.

My mothers mother, born end of 18 century lived complete well until 84, my mother from 1918 lived well until 86, the same for my fathers mother who lived also well until 84. They eat frugal and simple nutrition because there was no availability and luxury in those times.The grandfathers lived much shorter but no mental problem, 56 and 65. My (in-law) and own father lived also short 56 and 70, to die from cancers, both had smoked a lot.

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