For the love of God, talk me out of art school!

Where are you and where are you going?
Marius
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Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:39 am

Post by Marius »

Q: "For The Love Of God, Talk Me Out Of Art School!"
A: ;-)

But seriously, if it's not economically justifiable, maybe you could do it as a hobby, when you're retired in a country where an architecture education is free or nearly free. For example in Belgium higher education is inexpensive.
I don't know how the situation in your country is, but overhere architects are among the worst paid professions.


Plain_simple
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:17 am

Post by Plain_simple »

I am not sure why I am the only one catching up on this but it seems to me that you do not want to go to art school. There are dozen of art schools all over the country and elsewere where you could "study art" for Waaaaaayyyy less money.
I call the "I am city person" excuse baloney because 1) you've never left where you are so how would you know 2) Some of those cheaper art schools are in cities.
There are lots of way to study arts that would not cost you a fortune.
By the way I choose the University of Arkansas totally at random... With some search you could find some amazing schools that won't cost you a fortune.


AlexOliver
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Post by AlexOliver »

Private art schools all cost the same: $30-40k for tuition, $10-12k for living expenses.
I don't know why you assume I've never left where I live now? I lived in a more developed suburb than my own for the first five years of my life, then we moved to Eastern Washington, which is completely rural, and I hated it. We lived there for six years, then moved to a really developed suburb for a year, then moved to our developed-yet-45-minutes-from-everything suburb six years ago. My experience has been, I was happier in the more developed/citylike suburbs, and feel at home in Seattle/the city. All the cities I've been to (Victoria, Vancouver, Seattle, Portland) feel like home. I despise rural settings.
Can you find a dedicated art school (NOT within a larger university system, such as the University of Arkansas) that costs less than $40-50k/year?


Plain_simple
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Post by Plain_simple »

And how is a private school better? You goal is to study art no?

I assumed because of this ""I'm kind of scared that, if I don't get out now, I never will-"" I also doubt that you can base your life from what you've experienced as a 6 to 11 years old child.
As for your last question, the simple answer is yes, but it is up to you to do the reseach and find the answer.
Should you study art -- of course go for it

At that price --I would never do it... But again it is your life. Do whatever. You asked for opinions, opinions were given.


hickchick
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Post by hickchick »

How strong would you consider your sales skills? And would you be opposed to the idea of developing them? Because that, to me, is what really drives success for artists.
I really wish I could swap my college education for some tangible skills every once in a while. "Problem-solving" just doesn't seem like an actual skill.


eric
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:36 pm

Post by eric »

Alex,
There should be no sugarcoating of the idea that going 200k into debt for art school is an utterly terrible decision. In fact,unless such an endeavor is being paid for in full by someone else, I would say that such a choice is downright foolish. I won't repeat any of the valid points others have made . . .
I once lived with an architect who went to the renowned Rhode Island School of Design, and I made more money than that individual while working in a restaurant. I have a friend that makes ends meet as an architect and has been in the field for quite some time (5+ years post grad). I still think he is working to become "official." Business is very cyclical, even in an economically vibrant place like SLC. It seems that becoming an architect is more time-consuming and far less financially compelling than becoming a doctor, and, in fact, some individuals never finish the bureaucratic process that actually declares one an official "architect."
On the other hand, I have a friend that never went to art school and eventually found his niche designing and making handcrafted bags, which he sells for around 300 bucks apiece. Until then, he supported himself waiting tables. Not to mention Peter Lik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Lik)
My ex-gf's sister studied art, which truly is her passion, yet needs to work full-time at Trader Joe's to make a living in Santa Cruz - and that is hard enough.
I'm only 27, but young people need facts told to them. 200k debt for art school in a state with one of the highest unemployment rates and highest costs of living is one of the worst decisions one could make. Aside from that, the demand for designing bookstores is likely in permanent decline, as technology overcomes the need for brick and mortar stores. If you are willing to go into the hole 200k, then at least borrow money to fund a venture that can be written off should it go terribly wrong. There is no getting out of student loans. At 200k, you are basically paying for the opportunity to become a slave.
I know people that have spent 50k + on "culinary education" and they get laughed at by working chefs - because chefs know that such individuals have been ripped off and have likely not spent any time actually supporting themselves through the labor of being a cook. In fact, such individuals are easily taken advantage of since they have to take the bones that get thrown to them.
Oh, and massage school is no guarantee either, but at least that is paid for. I know massage therapists that work other jobs to supplement their incomes since full-time work can be somewhat erratic as well as physically demanding.I would doubt 25-50k off the bat in SF as a newbie. It would be a full-time job just to develop a book of clients.
It sounds like I am being a buzz-kill. I assure you I am not. There are a lot of opportunities in our world. Don't rush to go to school. Don't rush to get in the student debt trap. Use borrowed money carefully and realize that YOU are the collateral against a student loan. Once it is on the books, there is no write-off.
My suggestion is that if you want to be in the city, then move to a city. Don't limit yourself to SF, though. I've lived in CA and can tell you that a lot of Californians have found happiness outside of their beloved state. If you are interested in creative/artistic pursuits, you will find something with patience.
Best
ps: I would speculate that the excess supply of commercial real estate will keep the architecture field tight for some time to come.


AlexOliver
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Post by AlexOliver »

Thanks for your input, guys. At this point in my life, everyone around me's abuzz with news of higher education (Where are you applying? Where'd you get in? Where are you going? I'm going to have $200k in debt by the time I graduate! I'll have $300k!), it's turned into some kind of pissing contest, and I guess I got wrapped up in it for a second.
I came here looking for a reality check; this is what I got.


margomai
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:24 am

Post by margomai »

That sounds a bit more like you, AlexOliver. I don't post very often, but I thought I'd quote you for a moment. About two months ago, I posted in the "ERE book for teens thread", questioning the feasibility to teens understanding ERE (in retrospect sounds like me shooting myself in the foot, since I share your age. :D)
You replied to me, rather succintly...
"Distaste of obligation.
Predisposition to frugality.
Want of freedom."
And I agree! Now, I am not one to talk of passion, as I understand what a driving force it can sometimes be, so this ultimately your decision. My dose of reality to you, AlexOliver, is that significant debt will hinder those things. Please consider your statement from that thread, AlexOliver. How much do you relish those things? I know you're super-smart, so the decision that's best for you will eventually become clear.
It's not an easy one to make, and I wish you the best.


methix
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Post by methix »

I went to a state school and picked up a degree in graphic design. I worked through it all and graduated with under 20k in loans, paid off now. I'm qualified for all kinds of work, but the pay scale is rather limited. Art may be a bit more practical when compared to a theater degree, but both share a common thread. Few individuals ever break out and make a name for themselves.
A few thoughts (just my experience)...
- Art as a job does seem to diminish the enjoyment of art. Maybe when I hit ERE someday, I'll regain some of it by pursuing my own interests (not committee/employer/etc. directed work).
- Being an artist means competing for work with a large pool of equally creative people. To complicate this, technology now means anyone can be an artist or at least thinks they are.
- Art use to be special. Before printing presses it wasn't very accessible. Now, any one with a few dollars can have a poster of "name of famous work here" hanging on their wall. You're not just competing with clip-art, but the portfolios of thousands that preceded you.
- In school, my core art classes were good experiences. I still ended up paying for the other 70% of required classes to get the degree. Perhaps just pick up the art classes locally if possible that interest you. A class now and then while pursuing ERE can get you started and keep your interest kindled while not being a huge commitment in time and debt.
- 50% of what I truly learned about art has came from the internships, side projects, daily work, and observation of art.
If your goal is ERE and ART, I'd suggest finding the ideal means for you to achieve ERE, then pursue the art path full bore with the knowledge you wont be the starving artist no matter what happens. Me, I have at least three years before I can consider being semi-ERE. I'll probably pick up a part time job at that point.


methix
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:39 pm

Post by methix »

Guess I probably could have just said something Pavlovian about learning to associate stress and frustration with something your passionate about and where it leads.


An8el
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Post by An8el »

Am curious what you decide to do next.
OK, well...will tell my experience. I went to CCAC - back then, on an insurance scholarship. Didn't realize it at the time, but apparently I was studying to be a sign painter...
Fortunately I didn't have debt to deal with, but wouldn't have been able to pay it off anyway. What I did learn once I started working as an artist was to seek out mentors. College didn't teach me how to do MOST things that were necessary to making a living as an artist. Most of the college work was centered toward "fine arts," rather than the myriad of other ways you could be an artist. Could have been a fine artist too, had made $4000. in contest wins before I entered college. But didn't like the isolation in a studio.
Turns out being an artist also meant the capacity to think originally, to see hidden opportunities. If you want to pay for something, study de Bono thinking skills, (or learn them online.) Then you can think for yourself as a skill.
So - Look for architecture mentors. Work with them - as an apprentice, as their friend, as their fascinated, helpful freeloader. Learning from a series of various mentors is two hundred thousand bucks a better and more complete learning than ANY series of college classes....and you'll probably even get paid for your work if you are working FOR them while you are picking their brains and appreciating their original thinking styles. You'll find out that what people imagine is the content of what they can offer you as a "class" that can be "tested" is one thing, and being able to pay attention to what they are actually doing enough to absorb and use it for yourself is education on a whole 'nother level. Learn from those who are doing it - and who are also good at articulating how they do what they do.
Education is going to change big time - and qualifications are going to change too. People will hire the skills of those people who are doing it - rather than educated to do it. I've had a great life going in the "back door" instead of paying to go in the front. It has made me regard accredited education as a sort of ...scam.
...Unless you want to get those jobs building bridges...then you'll actually NEED those papers.


mikeBOS
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Post by mikeBOS »

An8el reminded me. I'm friends with two people who make their living as artists. One sells paintings in galleries around New England and in California. The other is a performance artist who works in theaters. One dropped out after a year of art school. The other never did anything past high school, worked as a surveyor's assistant for 10 years and painted part time until enough galleries started showing his work. FWIW.


AlexOliver
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Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm

Post by AlexOliver »

Since this thread was revived, here's a bit of an update.
When I posted this three months ago, all of my friends were either finishing their college applications or anxiously awaiting their acceptance/rejection letters. More than anything, I think I just wanted to be "normal" and have the same experience as my peers.
I don't want to do art professionally. I don't want to *have* to make art. I don't want to depend on my passion for my living.
I didn't apply to the school, because I knew I'd get in, and I knew that if I got in, I *would* go. It's much harder to say no to something you really want when it's right there.
So I'm going to massage school next year. I still draw and paint, of course. i don't think I'll ever stop. But I have no plans to study it formally or try to make money off of it any time soon.


paxprobellum
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Post by paxprobellum »

Good call, Alex.


Cailyn Brown
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Post by Cailyn Brown »

Hey Eric
I wont agree with you. I'm a chef and getting a good respect while working. What you said happens with the new comer's in this field or those who have not chosen the correct path.
From very childhood I had an inclination towards cooking. But this career has many challenges as it needs a good training as well as a good experience. Then I thought of doing my degree in culinary arts online, that to from a very good college. I searched everywhere for information and found the college which I was looking for, from the following site.

http://www.culinaryartscollege.org/

And during the two years also, I worked first as house keeping and then as a cook. As soon as I completed the course I got the offer to work as a chef in a good restaurant of our location. After 5 years I became the head chef in the same place. I'm quite happy now. This career proved a rewarding as well as satisfying career. Also it gives me gratification time to time when somebody praises my food.

I know you all must be thinking that I'm talking something which is unusual. But it has really happened with me.

So in my opinion going for an arts career is not at all wrong. You should enter into the career for which you are passionate about whether its architecture, painting, culinary arts or anything else.


slacker
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Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:40 am

Post by slacker »

@cailyn:
> You should enter into the career for which

> you are passionate about whether its architecture,

painting, culinary arts or anything else.
even a clock that's stopped shows the right time, twice a day.

pick any career and you'll always find someone who's had it good...this sometimes being nothing more than a mere effect of chance ,probability and such.
but when evaluating a career from a purely rational perspective, it makes sense to look at the bigger picture in terms of where the average person ends up in any particular line of work and also whether there is at least some historical precedent for this being a sustainable career ( like say mechanical engineer vis a vis aspiring-pop-star)
Then again, if the joy derived from doing something you're passionate about outweighs everything else (including the occasional supper and maybe electricity), then its a no-brainer really.
IMHO, if your passion is painting dots and making other people paint dots all day..you better not make that your career or better still, have another career on the side, for paying the bills..for only damien hirst will get paid millions for this particular 'work'.
the most satisfying thing in the world is following your true passion..but it's naive to expect the world to see utility in it..IMHO


na8
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Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:09 am

Post by na8 »

Alex, my friend is a freelance designer (photo shoots, runways, corporate concepting) who never went to college at all. Oh, and she does quite well for herself. If you want to be involved in the arts, just jump in. It's easier than you think to start working at a gallery, attend free lectures, follow industry blogs, assist others doing what you want to do...if you have talent you'll get opportunities involving money, if not, the arts are great in and of themselves


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