Random question...
This is a knowing then what I know now question...
Pretend you are 18 years old and you know everything that we talk about here that pertains to ERE. What would you do?
For instance, where would you live, what would you do for work, would you go to college, what skills would you start learning, what life experiences would you have while you are young, etc, etc, etc?????
Hope this one provokes some good discussion!
Create the PERFECT ERE Life...
-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15995
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
I'd sign up as a union carpentry apprentice at $17/hr. Much contrary to ERE principles, I'd own a truck, but that would be required for work. I'd get a 28' boat and live aboard eventually doing some long cruises. The experiences here will beat anything you can do with a plane ticket and a backpack.
After 4 years, I'd be a journey man, now at $35-40/hour. I'd build and live in a tiny house and contract around the country pulling my house around; after selling the boat.
I'd think very carefully about children and marriage: delay, delay! [People really do get wiser with age.]
Once I got tired of hammering houses together, I'd go to college for an engineering degree; likely in a field that somehow relates to civil engineering---basically anything where your end-product is self-explanatory to your mom. ("I write reports and talk on the phone a lot" isn't it.)
Also, learn to brew beer. This is perhaps the most important ;-D
After 4 years, I'd be a journey man, now at $35-40/hour. I'd build and live in a tiny house and contract around the country pulling my house around; after selling the boat.
I'd think very carefully about children and marriage: delay, delay! [People really do get wiser with age.]
Once I got tired of hammering houses together, I'd go to college for an engineering degree; likely in a field that somehow relates to civil engineering---basically anything where your end-product is self-explanatory to your mom. ("I write reports and talk on the phone a lot" isn't it.)
Also, learn to brew beer. This is perhaps the most important ;-D
-
AlexOliver
- Posts: 461
- Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 pm
Excited to see other answers.I'd go to the best engineering school I could get into (MIT, Stanford, CMU, Caltech, Berkeley, or a top state school) and study Computer Science. If I didn't get into any of those, I would get a 4.0 freshman year somewhere else and then transfer in. I would live in the dorms all four years (important for building relationships) and focus all of my excess energy on starting companies with my classmates. Rather than committing to any one idea, I would roll the dice many times with many small groups of people -- and alone. I would not go out of my way to "network" or consider VCs. I would just work with my friends and the people I liked working with from class projects. I would work on web/mobile startups, and other projects that require no startup capital.
I would graduate in exactly four years, unless one of the startups goes big time, in which case I'd drop out. During college summers I'd go all out on a startup... and/or get a "big name" internship at a place like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. By the end of college, I'd make sure I had at least one or two of these internships.
I would probably save studying abroad and traveling for after ERE. But I would make time for hanging out with friends and dating. I would not be concerned with my GPA during college, but instead I would make sure I learned things that would help my startups or that were interesting.
Best case: one of the 10+ startups I try during school solves the money thing.
Medium case: move to San Francisco and consult at $50-150/hr in a niche that I become an expert in during a startup attempt
Worst case: leverage the internships and startup experience into a software engineering job at a big name place and a $80k/yr salary. Pay off debt immediately and then live off 80% of that until ERE (give up on startups at this point if it still hasn't happened).
PS: In case you couldn't tell, I'm pretty annoyed at myself for not being more entrepreneurial during college. It's seriously the perfect environment! Surrounded by smart, bored people who would eagerly work on a fun project for free... yet will cost you $100k/yr to employ later in life.
PPS: I think engineering is fun. If you don't, this would be hard.
I would graduate in exactly four years, unless one of the startups goes big time, in which case I'd drop out. During college summers I'd go all out on a startup... and/or get a "big name" internship at a place like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. By the end of college, I'd make sure I had at least one or two of these internships.
I would probably save studying abroad and traveling for after ERE. But I would make time for hanging out with friends and dating. I would not be concerned with my GPA during college, but instead I would make sure I learned things that would help my startups or that were interesting.
Best case: one of the 10+ startups I try during school solves the money thing.
Medium case: move to San Francisco and consult at $50-150/hr in a niche that I become an expert in during a startup attempt
Worst case: leverage the internships and startup experience into a software engineering job at a big name place and a $80k/yr salary. Pay off debt immediately and then live off 80% of that until ERE (give up on startups at this point if it still hasn't happened).
PS: In case you couldn't tell, I'm pretty annoyed at myself for not being more entrepreneurial during college. It's seriously the perfect environment! Surrounded by smart, bored people who would eagerly work on a fun project for free... yet will cost you $100k/yr to employ later in life.
PPS: I think engineering is fun. If you don't, this would be hard.
-
MichaelAndrewLo
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:59 pm
- Contact:
So far I have lived my "PERFECT ERE" (minus some life circumstances that I took out debt for) life so far! I am 22 now but had my own conception to retire early (though not as clear and concise until finding Jacob's blob and reading the ERE book!) since 17-18. I decided to forego the expensive university education for Lawrence conservatory (in wisconsin) and enrolled in a community college to become a registered nurse. During my prerequisite classes I took a free course to become "nurse's aide" for free and was making $11 an hour instead of minimum wage during my schooling. I paid my through school mostly and the only thing I would change about my course is to simply work more hours instead of taking on debt. Of course, you can't always tell what'll happen in life! But nevertheless, I have graduated nursing school (RN) at 22 and due to the economy have had to move for a job but now I am living on about $800-850 a month, live 3 blocks from work, 1 block from the bank, and 1/2 mile from the grocery store. In fact my apartment is even more than I need so in the future hopefully I can even reduce that expense. Starting out at 22 I am making 20.74 plus $1/hr for evening hours (past 3 pm). After my 6 weeks or so of orientation that should go up and after a year that will go much higher (30-45) when I either get a different job, negotiate a higher wage, or take a travel contract. Though I will work longer than 5 years because I like working as a hospital nurse, I know that most nurses burn out after 5-10 years, which will be perfect cause then I will have the resources to get out. Also nursing offers an unusually higher level of pay and autonomy of lifestyle. For instance, after I am a 5 years experienced RN in the ER (my main area), I will be able to take one 3 month contract with housing paid for, travel paid for, plus $35-50 an hours base pay working 3 days (12 hours a day) a week. That one contract alone would cover 2 years expenses but if I simply work that one contract a year I will increase my nest egg substantially travel for free (I love traveling for sure) and have everything paid for. It is sad because Soooo many nurses are HORRIBLE with money but they make a good wage. I think it's the emotional nature of nurses tied in with the constant message that to feel better you must buy shit.
Now I have not done everything perfect but here is how I would lay out a plan for an 18 year old to do everything PERFECT to retire by 28 minimum (or less if they are more frugal or more willing to put in crazy overtime). And yes I think becoming a RN is the perfect career path for ERE:
1. Don't take ANY debt no matter what
2. Go to a community college to become an RN. It only take 3 years minimum, you have your license 1 year earlier, it's cheaper (can work your way through), and if you want your BSN (bachelors in nursing) you can have the hospital pay for it for you AFTER you get a job.
3. Drop out of high school at 16 get a GED and take the 2 years of nursing school prereqs (or 1 year if you are REALLY motivated, but I would recommend 2 since you will still only by the time you ENTER nursing school).
4. Apply for nursing schools by 18 (make sure you become a CNA, have straight A's, relevant volunteer work experience, etc.)
5. Get into RN school and pass by 19-20.
6. Get a HOSPITAL nursing job, apply and move anywhere in the country you have to, but just take the first hospital job you can find.
7. Making 20-25 an hour at this point. After the 1st year your options skyrocket: can take travel contracts, start or have finished a BSN, move to a different and higher paying city (SF or NYC).
8. DO NOT spend your money as you will be making a lot of it and WILL be under stress. DO NOT spend money to "make yourself feel better."
9. Live very cheaply, find an apartment close to work and grocery, once in the new town park your car at the hospital and WALK everywhere, cancel your insurance until you move to the next job or town.
10. When you start to feel burnt out or have other career ambitions or want to take a year off DO so. You will have the nest egg by 25-27 for this.
11. If you find another young nurse then that's even better, just make sure she's along with the plan. Then that's great though cause both can take a travel contract in the same place, travel there, work 3 months and make 4-5 years of living expenses with just a little overtime!
12. For your speciality make SURE you are staying in the hospital in bedside nursing care with a high level of acuity. This pays the highest. Think labor and delivery, ICU, trauma, ER, surgery, etc.
13. DO NOT buy a house or a new car as soon as you graduate and are "making the big bucks" STUPID STUPID STUPID (half my class of 2010 has already done this!!!).
14. DO NOT tell your co-workers what you are doing, they simply won't understand.
15. Last but not least, at 28 you can laugh at anything that happens at work because when you see the 50-60 year old doctors and nurses slogging through a tough shift, burnt out to hell, you know you can walk away tommorow if you start feeling like they do!
Now I have not done everything perfect but here is how I would lay out a plan for an 18 year old to do everything PERFECT to retire by 28 minimum (or less if they are more frugal or more willing to put in crazy overtime). And yes I think becoming a RN is the perfect career path for ERE:
1. Don't take ANY debt no matter what
2. Go to a community college to become an RN. It only take 3 years minimum, you have your license 1 year earlier, it's cheaper (can work your way through), and if you want your BSN (bachelors in nursing) you can have the hospital pay for it for you AFTER you get a job.
3. Drop out of high school at 16 get a GED and take the 2 years of nursing school prereqs (or 1 year if you are REALLY motivated, but I would recommend 2 since you will still only by the time you ENTER nursing school).
4. Apply for nursing schools by 18 (make sure you become a CNA, have straight A's, relevant volunteer work experience, etc.)
5. Get into RN school and pass by 19-20.
6. Get a HOSPITAL nursing job, apply and move anywhere in the country you have to, but just take the first hospital job you can find.
7. Making 20-25 an hour at this point. After the 1st year your options skyrocket: can take travel contracts, start or have finished a BSN, move to a different and higher paying city (SF or NYC).
8. DO NOT spend your money as you will be making a lot of it and WILL be under stress. DO NOT spend money to "make yourself feel better."
9. Live very cheaply, find an apartment close to work and grocery, once in the new town park your car at the hospital and WALK everywhere, cancel your insurance until you move to the next job or town.
10. When you start to feel burnt out or have other career ambitions or want to take a year off DO so. You will have the nest egg by 25-27 for this.
11. If you find another young nurse then that's even better, just make sure she's along with the plan. Then that's great though cause both can take a travel contract in the same place, travel there, work 3 months and make 4-5 years of living expenses with just a little overtime!
12. For your speciality make SURE you are staying in the hospital in bedside nursing care with a high level of acuity. This pays the highest. Think labor and delivery, ICU, trauma, ER, surgery, etc.
13. DO NOT buy a house or a new car as soon as you graduate and are "making the big bucks" STUPID STUPID STUPID (half my class of 2010 has already done this!!!).
14. DO NOT tell your co-workers what you are doing, they simply won't understand.
15. Last but not least, at 28 you can laugh at anything that happens at work because when you see the 50-60 year old doctors and nurses slogging through a tough shift, burnt out to hell, you know you can walk away tommorow if you start feeling like they do!
-
George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Well there was this girl on the bus ... oh, different subject...
OK, I would still go to college (after all, I graduated from a polytechnic high school, so had lots of exposure to various trades), but I would cut down the course work hours so I could better cope with it and/or change my major sooner.
Realize this is in the '80s, so we've just seen massive inflation rates and very high unemployment, so going to college and being flexible in career choices is a winning strategy even if we can't find jobs related to our majors.
If I didn't go to college, then becoming a machinist or an electrician are the ways to go. Machinist first as it's less likely to be a fatal occupation.
OK, I would still go to college (after all, I graduated from a polytechnic high school, so had lots of exposure to various trades), but I would cut down the course work hours so I could better cope with it and/or change my major sooner.
Realize this is in the '80s, so we've just seen massive inflation rates and very high unemployment, so going to college and being flexible in career choices is a winning strategy even if we can't find jobs related to our majors.
If I didn't go to college, then becoming a machinist or an electrician are the ways to go. Machinist first as it's less likely to be a fatal occupation.
Fun question!
I would have skipped school and the military and learned how to do computer systems work first. I would have gotten a job at a startup like the one I have now and learned enough to start the business I'm about to start now, at 27.
I would have started by buying a van while I still had a job and learning how to live in it. Then once I had the techniques down, I would have quit the job and focused on the business. Once I built up enough passive income, I would learn how to live with just the stuff I'm carrying, leave the van in the States and travel the world.
Once I found my soul mate, I'd bring her back and buy a big house in a city suburb and rent out the other bedrooms. I'd buy more houses as I could afford them, and settle into a nice, comfortable landlording/computer business.
I would have skipped school and the military and learned how to do computer systems work first. I would have gotten a job at a startup like the one I have now and learned enough to start the business I'm about to start now, at 27.
I would have started by buying a van while I still had a job and learning how to live in it. Then once I had the techniques down, I would have quit the job and focused on the business. Once I built up enough passive income, I would learn how to live with just the stuff I'm carrying, leave the van in the States and travel the world.
Once I found my soul mate, I'd bring her back and buy a big house in a city suburb and rent out the other bedrooms. I'd buy more houses as I could afford them, and settle into a nice, comfortable landlording/computer business.
-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15995
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
The reason for my suggestions, i.e. not computer science, is the risk that anything that can travel via phone, fax, and network is likely ultimately to go the same way as anything that could travel via shipping container.
Eventually, it will even be possible to outsource surgery (via robotic interfaces). I have a harder time imagining it will be possible to outsource plumbing.
I think the middle class office jobs are going to same way as the manufacturing jobs. So the pertinent vocation question is:
Do you foresee global competition?
Eventually, it will even be possible to outsource surgery (via robotic interfaces). I have a harder time imagining it will be possible to outsource plumbing.
I think the middle class office jobs are going to same way as the manufacturing jobs. So the pertinent vocation question is:
Do you foresee global competition?
-
jeremymday
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:06 am
- Contact:
-
jacob
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15995
- Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:38 pm
- Location: USA, Zone 5b, Koppen Dfa, Elev. 620ft, Walkscore 77
- Contact:
@jeremy - It depends on what kind of engineering, trade, etc.
Vocations that can't be outsourced.
Petroleum engineering
Plumbing
EMT
Vocations that can [eventually] be outsourced.
Electrical engineering
Machining
Surgery
It's a question of speed and scale.
Some vocations are protected by legislative trade barriers (accounting, law, medicine)... I wouldn't count on those holding up.
Vocations that can't be outsourced.
Petroleum engineering
Plumbing
EMT
Vocations that can [eventually] be outsourced.
Electrical engineering
Machining
Surgery
It's a question of speed and scale.
Some vocations are protected by legislative trade barriers (accounting, law, medicine)... I wouldn't count on those holding up.
-
jeremymday
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:06 am
- Contact:
I think part of how I started was good, but hit a few bumps (or 1 big one now called EX-) along the way.
DO - drop HS and dual enroll, have AA and EMT cert @ 18. What they don't tell you is that its nearly impossible to get an EMT job until your 21 for insurance reasons. (at least in my area)
DID - Go Army, chose National Guard.
DO - Join Airforce & volunteer to go overseas. The $ is pretty nice. Sign for 6 years then transfer to air guard. Save the combat bonuses, its all tax free. The Airforce generally has nicer living conditions and are in safer areas. Yeah Iraq and Kuwait arn't all that fun but last time I went I saved enough to buy and renovate my new home, no mortgage is great. Only $800/yr in taxes.
DO - Stay in the guard, 1 weekend a month 2 weeks a year. In a few years it will be my only "real" job. I only have 8 more years to qualify for retirement benefits so why not?
DON'T - Listen to parents saying you HAVE to get a 4 year degree & sign up for online classes for business management thinking that a degree in something your not interested in will yield a high paying job.
DON'T - Get student loans & credit cards in only your name then let affore mentioned EX charge them up, move out taking virtually everything you own while your helping clean up after a hurricane and leave you with all the debt. It takes a while to pay it all off.
DO - Watch cooking shows, not on cable but over the airwaves, after you see enough combos you can start to make things up while seeing whats on sale at the grocery store.
DO - Start taking classes that you ARE interested in, let your GI bill pay for it all.
DO - Take care of you body.
DON'T - Go off and do stupid things that require surgery to fix.
DO - Talk to SO about finances and goals. It takes time to find "the one" and causes heartache when you think you have but can't come to a middle ground on finances.
Good Luck!
DO - drop HS and dual enroll, have AA and EMT cert @ 18. What they don't tell you is that its nearly impossible to get an EMT job until your 21 for insurance reasons. (at least in my area)
DID - Go Army, chose National Guard.
DO - Join Airforce & volunteer to go overseas. The $ is pretty nice. Sign for 6 years then transfer to air guard. Save the combat bonuses, its all tax free. The Airforce generally has nicer living conditions and are in safer areas. Yeah Iraq and Kuwait arn't all that fun but last time I went I saved enough to buy and renovate my new home, no mortgage is great. Only $800/yr in taxes.
DO - Stay in the guard, 1 weekend a month 2 weeks a year. In a few years it will be my only "real" job. I only have 8 more years to qualify for retirement benefits so why not?
DON'T - Listen to parents saying you HAVE to get a 4 year degree & sign up for online classes for business management thinking that a degree in something your not interested in will yield a high paying job.
DON'T - Get student loans & credit cards in only your name then let affore mentioned EX charge them up, move out taking virtually everything you own while your helping clean up after a hurricane and leave you with all the debt. It takes a while to pay it all off.
DO - Watch cooking shows, not on cable but over the airwaves, after you see enough combos you can start to make things up while seeing whats on sale at the grocery store.
DO - Start taking classes that you ARE interested in, let your GI bill pay for it all.
DO - Take care of you body.
DON'T - Go off and do stupid things that require surgery to fix.
DO - Talk to SO about finances and goals. It takes time to find "the one" and causes heartache when you think you have but can't come to a middle ground on finances.
Good Luck!
-
jeremymday
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:06 am
- Contact:
No matter where you go the advice is always the same...
Marry someone that has the same financial beliefs as you...
And never get divorced...
Divorce wipes out wealth like no other...
After looking at a lot of stats and research it seems best to get married after the age of 25...
I like how Jacob put it best in his first comment of this thread..... "delay, delay, delay"
Marry someone that has the same financial beliefs as you...
And never get divorced...
Divorce wipes out wealth like no other...
After looking at a lot of stats and research it seems best to get married after the age of 25...
I like how Jacob put it best in his first comment of this thread..... "delay, delay, delay"
I don't know, the journey is more important than the destination... At 18 I wouldn't have appreciated freedom because I never experienced slavery. [Of topic, any ever read "Richest Man in Babylon"? There is a great chapter about a slaver earning his freedom.]
Buuuut, I probably would have got on a hot shot fire crew, make 20-30k for 5 months, then go to either college (mostly just to drink and chase girls) and/or work at a ski area.
Would buy an acre and a dirty wooden shack right on the border of public land... Cut firewood and write manifestos and short stories.
Buuuut, I probably would have got on a hot shot fire crew, make 20-30k for 5 months, then go to either college (mostly just to drink and chase girls) and/or work at a ski area.
Would buy an acre and a dirty wooden shack right on the border of public land... Cut firewood and write manifestos and short stories.
-
George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
> Doesn't anyone think that as currencies around the world
> rise against the dollar that we will eventually see a
> return of manufacturing in the US?
Only if we become the source of ideas worth continuing to manufacture. Historically, the US edge is a combination of stable government and better ideas. We've still got a stable (but contentious) government, but other nations have the capacity for better ideas (Poland, for example).
> And as we get closer to peak oil? Which is what transports
> our "cheap" goods around the world?
Arabic dhows and Chinese junks still ply the waters of the Indian Ocean. Do not underestimate the ability for cargo to continue being transported across the sea!
What will change is the speed & reliability of delivery.
> rise against the dollar that we will eventually see a
> return of manufacturing in the US?
Only if we become the source of ideas worth continuing to manufacture. Historically, the US edge is a combination of stable government and better ideas. We've still got a stable (but contentious) government, but other nations have the capacity for better ideas (Poland, for example).
> And as we get closer to peak oil? Which is what transports
> our "cheap" goods around the world?
Arabic dhows and Chinese junks still ply the waters of the Indian Ocean. Do not underestimate the ability for cargo to continue being transported across the sea!
What will change is the speed & reliability of delivery.
I both like Melissa and Jacob's ideas.
I think getting hands-on experience before continuing to getting theoretical credentials would pay off immensely.
Continue or learn to live a life free of conspicuous consumption and social symbols.
Have a greater appreciation for formal, collegiate training.
Be able to apply collegiate training much more effectively in "the real world."
Pay for college with cash.
I think this could be applied to many fields: mechanics/mechanical engineering, EMT/nurse/doctor, social services (not versed in the specific options), etc.
Disclaimer: I have seen this path go wrong multiple times and it was because of drugs. So I suppose like all ventures, keep a level head.
I think getting hands-on experience before continuing to getting theoretical credentials would pay off immensely.
Continue or learn to live a life free of conspicuous consumption and social symbols.
Have a greater appreciation for formal, collegiate training.
Be able to apply collegiate training much more effectively in "the real world."
Pay for college with cash.
I think this could be applied to many fields: mechanics/mechanical engineering, EMT/nurse/doctor, social services (not versed in the specific options), etc.
Disclaimer: I have seen this path go wrong multiple times and it was because of drugs. So I suppose like all ventures, keep a level head.