Barefoot running and marathons

[jacob]

For random reasons, I thought it might be a cool to do the Chicago marathon---now that I'm here and also because it would be nice to check off the box.

Here's my problem:

Twenty years ago, I used to run 5ks on a daily basis at a 4min/km pace (6:24 mile). I'm now 25 pounds heavier (no longer skin and bones), probably in a similar cardiovascular shape, but my tendons are definitely not up to it. While I lived in CA, I tried picking it up again by doing some trail running, typically about 30-90 minutes. I worked my way up to running about 13 miles with a camelbak after a few months (2 or 3). After that my left knee hurt.

My hypothesis is that I need to work myself up much slower spending months (6-12) to strengthen the tendons enough to take sustained pounding for a few hours. I figured that one way of not running too far too fast would be to go barefoot.

I've so far found
1) http://xeroshoes.com
2) https://www.lunasandals.com
3) DIY (buying some cherry sole off ebay, somewhat cheaper
4) Wearing 2 or 3 tennis socks on top of each other.

Two questions:
Is this a wise strategy?
If so, are the other ways to make a pair of huaraches?

[e3434]

My sense is this is probably an unwise strategy, if you're serious about doing the Chicago marathon in 2014. While I'm a traditional runner i.e. not barefoot or minimalist shoes, if I were going to try the less-shoe route I'd check out The Science of Sport site. Also, I'd look at people like Ed Whitlock, who have had a lot of success with non-traditional training.

You didn't mention training, but I'll add that the Chicago Marathon training program (http://assets.chicagomarathon.com/wp-co ... finish.pdf) is actually pretty good. It might be worth contrasting it with Spanish training, which is quite different, but also quite effective. http://www.runners.es/entrenamiento/pla ... ar-maraton

In my experience, the 2 biggest mistakes that healthy, motivated, athletic, fit people make when getting into running is doing their runs too fast, and doing too much, too soon. The majority of runs shouldn't be, or feel, hard at all, which is often tough in the beginning for people who like intense workouts. Doing them slowly is key -- I recommend really trying to go slow, and also not keeping track of your pace or how much distance you're covering in a given time.

[theanimal]

I own a pair of xero shoes. Personally, I only use them as my main shoe to walk around in. I prefer to run actually barefoot as the xeros kind of annoy me when I'm running.

It's a wise strategy, but asphalt and concrete are pretty hard on barefeet when you are just starting out. If I remember correctly you live on the north side? If you have access to a forest preserve nearby I'd use that. Otherwise a park or in the grass alongside certain parts of the lake shore drive bike path might work when just starting out. Just my opinion.

Edit: Check out the 100 ups running drill. I believe it was designed in early 1900s but is one of the top running drills for many barefoot and even non bare foot runners. In the past, some people have shaved minutes off their time with minimal training besides this drill.

[Chad]

Maybe read "Finding Ultra?" Rich Roll went from worse shape than you to a top ultra-marathoner. Might not be barefoot, but you could use his training time to help.

I don't know a lot about bare foot distance running. Though, I would think it would take longer than 6-12 months to truly develop your foot for a bare foot marathon.

[Felix]

McDougall's "born to run" comes to mind. His advice is basically to start slow when barefoot running, because all of a sudden you are using a lot of stabilizing muscles you never used when you wear shoes. It is supposed to help with "foot aches" in running.

There is some advice given out by Vibram, who make fivefingers barefoot shoes on how to adapt to it.

[stoneage]

@ jacob

I used to run almost as fast as you when I was 20/22 (4min15s/km on 5km). When I started again at age 32, after a 10 year break, I was 10 years older and 20 pounds heavier. My first run ended up with terrible pain in ankles, knees and hips. I could barely walk.

My advice : shortening your stride is the first step to avoid huge impacts when starting again. For me this resulted in intense heat at the joints for the first few runs, and took a lot of effort to get used to it. This made me run faster and at a steadier pace I was back on my tracks at 4min30s/km but eventually gave up shortly after my younger child birth.

[slimicy]

I own 3 pairs of vibrams and love them to death. That being said, I think marathon running is one of the least healthy activities you can partake in.

Marathon Runner vs Sprinter:
http://www.kevinneeld.com/wp-content/up ... rinter.jpg

[RD]

I'm not sure about the weather / floor condition in the States.
But I think you can consider some sort of combination approach.

1) Run barefoot. Up your meter-age, literally by the meters weekly.
2) Still run in your shoes after training your deep muscles/tendons from barefoot running. Capping the distance with some relationship with your barefoot mileage. 1barefoot:10shod distance units?

Personally it took me about 2-3 years of on and off running (procrastination and laziness) to get to 3km barefoot with hardly a scratch on my feet. I run on the asphalt/tar running tracks and cement side walks in Singapore in the evenings. I had blisters on my first few months running too much (1km was too much back then) due to my poor form.

I have definitely improved my running form by a lot due to the feedback (pain) of the feet.
I have wide flat feet and some knee issues from my army days, and barefoot running is the only way for me to run pain free.

All 'barefoot' shoes (Vibram, New Balance Minimus zero) I've tried so far alter my gait too much.
Sandals/huaraches seems to be plausible, but I've already gotten used to barefoot.

[skinnyninja]

Your running gait will determine how quickly you can adapt to barefoot running.

My running form is terrible, I am a heel striker. This is inefficient because each time your heel comes down you are "braking" a tiny bit. If your foot strikes the midfoot or even the forefoot then you are much more efficient. In a longer distance race this adds up to a lot. Also, the heel strike gait sort of "pounds" on your foot, it is a more jarring way to run.

That said, you can't just change your gait. You can, but it takes time. If you change your gait then you are working different muscles than before. Therefore you would be wise to follow the 10 percent rule of not increasing distance by more than 10 percent overall in a week.

You might get some Nike Free shoes and then alternate every run with your old running shoes. Ease into them. Don't just buy them and wear them for every run or you are asking for injury.

Hal Higdon has an excellent website for marathon training schedules, advice, etc. Definitely worth checking out.

[jennypenny]

Why do you want to run barefoot? Just to slow yourself down? I know a few people who do it, but I would be afraid to race barefoot. If race day is warm, the asphalt will be too hot. Plus, my feet get stepped on by other racers all of the time.

Look into Pose running to help ease your body back into running. It's supposed to be the best technique for running barefoot.

I also like Higdon's plans ... http://www.halhigdon.com/training/

[tommytebco]

Your whole approach is one of an aspiring Ninja. Kind of romantically attractive, but not at all realistic.

Marathons are a nice credential to have. I have five myself. The pains of overuse injuries last a lifetime, though. Remove protective, cushioning footwear and you are asking for it.

I would suggest building up to a respectable 10K of 40 minutes or so for training goals. then run/walk the marathon. The secret of a survival marathon is to start slow and then taper off.You still get the tee-shirt.

Fast marathons require years of total dedication. Your memory is much tougher than your now older body.

[Seneca]

They are not cheap, but I am a fan of Vibram five finger shoes. As a multiple time knee surgery sufferer, I find they do cause me to lay my feet down better and I absolutely love hiking in them.

I have a friend who received serious knee injuries as a soldier in Iraq, and he swears five fingers are the only reason he can run a marathon today.

My experience is you are on to a good strategy, but I've never looked in to how to make my own stuff so I can't help there.

As others have said, start slow with whatever minimalist footwear you make or choose (especially trail running, when you get tired and start getting sloppy you'll stub a toe in a hurry), and IME one of the keys seems to be shorter strides.

If you are on a short timeline to your race, I'd stick to more traditional running shoes for your training.

[tango]

I transitioned to DIY huaraches. Just used an old pair of cheapo $1.99 Old Navy sandals I had lying around, cut off the straps, and drilled holes and threaded with poly rope. The sandals are probably around 10mm thick, the thickest that Luna makes. These have lasted for 8months now, and still going. When they finally die, I'll probably go the same route. The alternatives are all expensive, and this allows me to cheaply experiment with sizing, design, etc.

As for running, it took about 1-2 months to feel "normal" again. Started slow, probably no more than 3 miles 2-3x/week, for the first month. Main thing is the gait change, as others said. Higher cadence, short strides, no vertical motion, almost like a very fast walk. No pounding or stress. My torso is steady and lower than before, like I'm sitting a bit, and legs just move underneath. I'm about 70% of previous speed. I can run at faster for short bursts, but my form isn't good enough to keep it up for long distances yet. I find I need to be more cardiovascular fit because of the higher cadence.

Though I've done a marathon before, I'm not sure I would try it like this. I'm not 25 anymore, so I'm not sure I would try it again no matter what. Marathons are a good experience, but they are not good for you.

Overall, I can't see myself buying another pair of running shoes ever again. The astonishing part is how simple this is, and how complicated modern running shoes are. From a philosophical POV, it fits in well to a simple/minimalist/ERE lifestyle, IMHO.

[jacob]

The sandal conversion sounds clever. I think I'll do that.

The main objective is to get out and run a bit again without getting injured. I figure that barefoot/sandals will naturally throttle my speed. I'm definitely a heel striker rolling from the outside heel to the inside ball. I take long steps in normal footwear. Also, avoiding buying $50+ running shoes every 200 days would be nice. The marathon is a tertiary goal and would only be used to provide some training structure.

[jennypenny]

http://birthdayshoes.com/introduction-t ... troduction
http://www.posetech.com/
http://www.posetech.com/training/archiv ... nning.html

Even if you don't try pose running, you'll have to tighten up your stride to avoid injury. On flat terrain, you should be pulling your legs with your hams, not pushing off. Quads are for hills (up or down). Also, if you can see your feet when you are running, you're stepping too far forward. You should't ever see your feet when running on flat terrain.

I've read that heel strikers have tight quads and loose hams, so maybe try stretching your quads but not your hams before running.

[Dragline]

This just popped up today and is relevant to this discussion:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-bare ... z2hurXUrnT

[JamesR]

I ran an 11K marathon in 1 hour 30 minutes while "barefoot" (wore $5 water shoes, which are pretty thin). Yes, it's very slow running, but it's low impact, and I had only been running for 3 months.

I have xeroshoes (invisible huaraches) but so far I find them too floppy. I need to figure out how to tie them differently.

I strongly recommend spending some time running around barefoot as much as you can. It's a huge source of information and feedback. You'll notice right away if it's painful or not, there's no way to ignore that information. It will force you to shorten your stride and change your gait. I honestly would not aim at running more than 5-10 minutes the first 5 sessions. If you can stay consistent about it, then the feet will toughen up pretty soon, and then you can start running longer.

Going barefoot will slow you down long enough for your body to catch up, plus it will reduce the impact tremendously!