I am seriously debating getting a graduate degree in PE. Currently, I am on a good track to early retirement. I am putting away about 40k/year with annual expenses of around 8k. I am a software engineer and sit in a cubicle 8 hrs/day coding. It is an easy lifestyle but very boring. I am looking at PE and thinking 18 months of schooling and I can come out making near 100k. 14 days on / 14 off working in the field, getting to walk around and be physical (vs sitting) sounds very nice. I probably won't enjoy the subject material anymore than software. I currently live in Texas, so I can get in-state tuition at the best school in the US (A&M). 18 months tuition seems like very low-hanging fruit for this type of salary. I would imagine peak oil won't affect my working years, as I hope to retire by 40 (I'm 26).
Anyone familiar with this degree and its pros/cons?
Petroleum Engineering
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BeyondtheWrap
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- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:38 pm
- Location: NYC
If your annual expenses are 8000 and you're saving $40,000 per year, at this rate you'll reach a 4% SWR in 5 years, and 3% in 6.6 years, long before you turn 40.
I don't how much of your future salary would be left after taxes, so I can't make an exact calculation, but it would probably decrease your time to FI even including the school time. But it seems your main motivation for the change is to have a more active lifestyle.
I don't know anything about the field myself, but I always check BLS when considering a new field:
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and ... ineers.htm
I don't how much of your future salary would be left after taxes, so I can't make an exact calculation, but it would probably decrease your time to FI even including the school time. But it seems your main motivation for the change is to have a more active lifestyle.
I don't know anything about the field myself, but I always check BLS when considering a new field:
http://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and ... ineers.htm
Using the information provided here and in your journal (and my best guess on after-tax income) both choices come out pretty evenly. Assuming you expenses stay the same, your current job seems to get you to FI slightly faster without all the drama (i.e. maybe you don't like the classes, maybe you can't find a job easily, maybe you hate the job you do find).
From reading your journal it seems like your in a situation where your expenses are low now but will increase once you hit FI. If this is the case then switching fields might be the quicker option.
As far as the Pros/Cons of the field this might be a good place to ask some questions.
From reading your journal it seems like your in a situation where your expenses are low now but will increase once you hit FI. If this is the case then switching fields might be the quicker option.
As far as the Pros/Cons of the field this might be a good place to ask some questions.
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Able was I ERE
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chemkrafty
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:53 pm
Scope the job opportunities first to see if you really want to do that. I know after graduating with a bachelor's in chemical engineering that the petroleum industry was a huge recruiter. However, many of the initial jobs seemed to have you spending most of your time out on rigs or in the middle east for 1-2 years. I'm not sure if the master's degree allows you more flexibility, but I would definitely understand all the implications of the remote work vs other life goals (marriage, kids, friends, etc).
I've been a petroleum engineer for 5-6 years now. You definitely do not need a degree in PE to become one (at least in the Canadian equivent of Texas). Here most PE's are Mechanical or Chemical Engineers by training (though I am Electrical). I went to go work for a producer in the field for a couple years after graduating (key for a non-PE graduate). Only 9-10 hours a day (my choice not mandatory) and 5 days a week. I lived only a couple hours from a major city and could spend as much time as I wanted in the office or visiting field locations. Since then I've been living in one of the biggest cities in Canada, I walk to work, and have responsibility for many oil and gas fields. There is never a dull moment, I have tons of creative freedom, I have access to however much money I want for projects I dream up and they keep giving me a bigger paycheque. Now I fly out to the field whenever I want to go see something/someones(s). If anything, the seemingly infinite scope and potential of my job is making me burn myself out. Pretty much the opposite of boring though.
My advice is to go talk to a lot of people working as PE's before comitting to more school. You might find someone that will hire you right now. I don't reccomend going to work for a service company unless you really hate the office environment (I've found the office is more than dynamic enough). Service companies will likely pay you better than a production company only for a couple years (at the expense of working rediculous hours and likely far away from any kind of home) and you won't have any freedom. Feel free to msg me if you want more info.
My advice is to go talk to a lot of people working as PE's before comitting to more school. You might find someone that will hire you right now. I don't reccomend going to work for a service company unless you really hate the office environment (I've found the office is more than dynamic enough). Service companies will likely pay you better than a production company only for a couple years (at the expense of working rediculous hours and likely far away from any kind of home) and you won't have any freedom. Feel free to msg me if you want more info.
@Ed has it right, I'd just get a job in the oil biz. The work is so data intensive a SE can get a job in there in a heartbeat. The majors (I worked for Shell USA) will Have programs to send you for 18 month degrees on their dime. You'll learn more inside than outside in an academic environment. A lot of the knowledge is geography specific and trade secrets...so you learn a lot by getting mentored by the old hands in the biz. Too much theory at the university that doesn't always work perfectly in the real world.
$100k doesn't sound like enough for a field job. I worked on a well logging truck in 1993 and the rate was $100k...at $10 oil! They took any technical degree and taught you the rest. SLB had a special flat tax rate plus extra hazard pay for the guys who worked far away. You paid no rent so you could potentially save a lot.
Now the bad news. Oil fields are in the worst armpits of the world. I got eaten alive by bugs in russia, intimidated by tough rig workers in long beach, roasted alive in Bakersfield. I didn't like oil town prostitutes so it got lonely. Nor did I like drinking. And this was nothing like my pals deployed in Angola. That really blew...except for the pay. In retrospect the job was excellent for a single guy doing ERE. My clothes, shoes, car, room, were all paid. But given the environment, I was running back to a nice climate controlled office in a short time.
I got the chance to go to grad school and bailed. By the time I graduated it was 1999 and SE was the job, not drilling for $10 oil. At the time, Every geoscientist who could program retreaded and went into tech. My how things have changed.
Good luck. It looks like a much better job now. You'll be valued for your SE skills you bring.
Jacob has a good point. The oil biz has limits in terms of where you can work and it can have serious dips during oil gluts...not sure that will ever happen but it seems there is a gas glut now. SE can get you employed anywhere. Employment is a moving target.
$100k doesn't sound like enough for a field job. I worked on a well logging truck in 1993 and the rate was $100k...at $10 oil! They took any technical degree and taught you the rest. SLB had a special flat tax rate plus extra hazard pay for the guys who worked far away. You paid no rent so you could potentially save a lot.
Now the bad news. Oil fields are in the worst armpits of the world. I got eaten alive by bugs in russia, intimidated by tough rig workers in long beach, roasted alive in Bakersfield. I didn't like oil town prostitutes so it got lonely. Nor did I like drinking. And this was nothing like my pals deployed in Angola. That really blew...except for the pay. In retrospect the job was excellent for a single guy doing ERE. My clothes, shoes, car, room, were all paid. But given the environment, I was running back to a nice climate controlled office in a short time.
I got the chance to go to grad school and bailed. By the time I graduated it was 1999 and SE was the job, not drilling for $10 oil. At the time, Every geoscientist who could program retreaded and went into tech. My how things have changed.
Good luck. It looks like a much better job now. You'll be valued for your SE skills you bring.
Jacob has a good point. The oil biz has limits in terms of where you can work and it can have serious dips during oil gluts...not sure that will ever happen but it seems there is a gas glut now. SE can get you employed anywhere. Employment is a moving target.
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Jacob1234098
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:39 am
Thank you Ed and Sclass for your thorough responses. Yesterday I talked to a family friend / engineer at Pioneer Natural Resources who is being very kind and trying to help me get my foot in the door at his company. Reading on the positions available - https://www9.ultirecruit.com/PIO1002/Jo ... _VT=ExtCan , the job descriptions sound much more active and on-your-feet than what I currently do, which is wonderful. One concern I have is that the more physically active job listings are less secure and lower paying with less upward mobility. In my mind, the office workers probably have the in-demand, irreplaceable skill sets. Is this true?
I think one helpful tool I can use to assess this career transition is to list all of the known pros/cons I see and get feedback on them.
Pros:
*A physically active job vs being stuck in a chair all day. This is probably the most important.
*Acquiring new marketable skills (combined with software skills, could lead to lucrative future employment if I decide I want a change in the future)
*Software engineering in-demand skill sets quickly become obsolete. I need to evolve with new technologies. Skill sets seem longer lasting in petroleum engineering.
*Less competition: Harder to outsource PE jobs. My desire for physical labor seems to put me in the minority agaist people who want the comfort of a desk job. Typical 14 on/14 off structures tend to deter a lot of potentials as well.
*Potential for much better salary (I am aware that I could look for higher paying software positions but typically they come with even more (8+) hours sitting in a chair every day.)
*It's something new. Though comfortable, I'm bored with my routine.
Cons:
*Loss of flexibility/autonomy (currently great boss, and minimal supervision. work from home 1 day / week. can come and leave office whenever I want throughout day.)
*Potentially worse hours / more stress (I currently work 8 hrs/day, 5x/week, never work overtime, almost no stress).
*Worse personalities (software engineers where I work are very pleasant, thoughtful, interesting, smart. This may not be so in the Petroleum Eng. profession).
*Limited location choices in PE, and will probably have to move every few years. Some of these locations aren't bad, others are. (Of course, bad location usually means increased pay).
*The unexpected. Unfortunately, my current job is the only one I have ever had, so it is impossible for me to compare it to others to know how good/bad I currently have it.
I think one helpful tool I can use to assess this career transition is to list all of the known pros/cons I see and get feedback on them.
Pros:
*A physically active job vs being stuck in a chair all day. This is probably the most important.
*Acquiring new marketable skills (combined with software skills, could lead to lucrative future employment if I decide I want a change in the future)
*Software engineering in-demand skill sets quickly become obsolete. I need to evolve with new technologies. Skill sets seem longer lasting in petroleum engineering.
*Less competition: Harder to outsource PE jobs. My desire for physical labor seems to put me in the minority agaist people who want the comfort of a desk job. Typical 14 on/14 off structures tend to deter a lot of potentials as well.
*Potential for much better salary (I am aware that I could look for higher paying software positions but typically they come with even more (8+) hours sitting in a chair every day.)
*It's something new. Though comfortable, I'm bored with my routine.
Cons:
*Loss of flexibility/autonomy (currently great boss, and minimal supervision. work from home 1 day / week. can come and leave office whenever I want throughout day.)
*Potentially worse hours / more stress (I currently work 8 hrs/day, 5x/week, never work overtime, almost no stress).
*Worse personalities (software engineers where I work are very pleasant, thoughtful, interesting, smart. This may not be so in the Petroleum Eng. profession).
*Limited location choices in PE, and will probably have to move every few years. Some of these locations aren't bad, others are. (Of course, bad location usually means increased pay).
*The unexpected. Unfortunately, my current job is the only one I have ever had, so it is impossible for me to compare it to others to know how good/bad I currently have it.