I've been looking around lately at unconventional ideas for housing. As far as I can see, my best option so far is to buy a small parcel of land (~10k in Oklahoma) with all cash, then build a house on it. Right now, I'm considering an underground house, i.e. http://www.undergroundhousing.com/ - which would cost in the low thousands at the most.
I estimate that land/housing could be taken care of for under $15000 total, then it's just property tax and probably very low maintenance from then on.
It's definitely cheaper than renting here, and it appeals to my DIY attitude, but I'm always looking to upgrade my ideas. Can anyone think of anything cheaper or better? Maybe I could still buy land, but build something different?
What do you guys think?
What is the cheapest form of housing?
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jacob
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In general, the "cheapest" anything is often simply "getting a good deal" on something conventional, holding for some time and then selling it at normal prices. The net cost can be almost zero in such cases.
It's not very interesting per se though. Building your own home is much more exciting. However, consider whether you can sell something "strange" should the need ever arise.
It's not very interesting per se though. Building your own home is much more exciting. However, consider whether you can sell something "strange" should the need ever arise.
Realistically, Oehler's plans will only work where you have no neighbors and no zoning or building codes. Check out Mortgage Free! by Rob Roy. Good read for the owner builder.
I considered this option... I ended up just buying a normal home and paid it off in one year... much easier than the labor involved in building your own. Just make a large down payment, and have a plan set up to meet your goal. This is very similar to ere strategy.
For cheapest housing... try squatting
Or perhaps a tumbleweed design that you diy. Check out those or Bill Kaysing's mini-granny designs. Think small... easier to build and cheaper to live in.
At the prices your thinking... if your building your own, be prepared to have no utilities. Hookups can be costly on a new home. In fact, at $15,000, its probably much smarter to renovate a crap house with existing hookups.
Try looking around for a hunting camp.... some will be in that price range.
I considered this option... I ended up just buying a normal home and paid it off in one year... much easier than the labor involved in building your own. Just make a large down payment, and have a plan set up to meet your goal. This is very similar to ere strategy.
For cheapest housing... try squatting
Or perhaps a tumbleweed design that you diy. Check out those or Bill Kaysing's mini-granny designs. Think small... easier to build and cheaper to live in.
At the prices your thinking... if your building your own, be prepared to have no utilities. Hookups can be costly on a new home. In fact, at $15,000, its probably much smarter to renovate a crap house with existing hookups.
Try looking around for a hunting camp.... some will be in that price range.
I think your plan sounds like fun. And it sounds pretty low cost. Though things do start to add up when you want off-grid electrical power, rain collection water storage tanks or a well, and some kind of composting system for waste. Though all that stuff can be done cheaply too, by building your own windmill/pv panels, constructing your own ferrocement tanks, driving your own well, etc. Or by just forgoing all that stuff and living the simple life.
And if you have to remain in Oklahoma that indeed may be your best option. Though there are some real estate markets now so full of foreclosures that, as Jacob was saying, are so cheap they pretty much end up being free or a net-gain in the long run if you eventually sell it down the road. Which is what I'm doing.
The downside though is I have to put up with fixing other people's lazy work and living with their house layouts that haven't been given much thought to things like solar gain and minimizing energy costs. I'm limited to trying to shoe-horn in my own modifications where it makes sense. Whereas if I could design the thing from scratch it'd be a work of art in terms of efficiency.
But if cheap is what you're looking for, you can go get a house in Detroit today for a song.
And if you have to remain in Oklahoma that indeed may be your best option. Though there are some real estate markets now so full of foreclosures that, as Jacob was saying, are so cheap they pretty much end up being free or a net-gain in the long run if you eventually sell it down the road. Which is what I'm doing.
The downside though is I have to put up with fixing other people's lazy work and living with their house layouts that haven't been given much thought to things like solar gain and minimizing energy costs. I'm limited to trying to shoe-horn in my own modifications where it makes sense. Whereas if I could design the thing from scratch it'd be a work of art in terms of efficiency.
But if cheap is what you're looking for, you can go get a house in Detroit today for a song.
I have this fantasy of living in a Lego world where I can understand and rebuild every object I depend on. However I must admit that, all things considered, the cheapest living arrangement is probably a small, conventionally-built, house/condo/apartment, in a low-rent area, within walking distance of a town center.
Consider how your housing solution impacts transportation expenses, which is usually one of the top three categories. If you're so remote as to get land that cheap and avoid zoning rules, a reliable auto is probably a practical necessity. That adds a lot of ongoing costs.
Also consider that conventional housing is a huge market, and participating in it grants some economies of scale. For instance I can get lamps and CFLs for 120 VAC at thrift stores for pennies on the dollar. But I bet lighting parts for off-grid 12 VDC systems must be bought at retail and shipped in.
I imagine the underground house would be in about the same ballpark though, which is very inexpensive in absolute terms. (I think sometimes we worry too much about finding the one perfect solution, when it'd actually be more helpful to find the many nearly-but-not-quite-perfect ones.)
Consider how your housing solution impacts transportation expenses, which is usually one of the top three categories. If you're so remote as to get land that cheap and avoid zoning rules, a reliable auto is probably a practical necessity. That adds a lot of ongoing costs.
Also consider that conventional housing is a huge market, and participating in it grants some economies of scale. For instance I can get lamps and CFLs for 120 VAC at thrift stores for pennies on the dollar. But I bet lighting parts for off-grid 12 VDC systems must be bought at retail and shipped in.
I imagine the underground house would be in about the same ballpark though, which is very inexpensive in absolute terms. (I think sometimes we worry too much about finding the one perfect solution, when it'd actually be more helpful to find the many nearly-but-not-quite-perfect ones.)
A used travel trailer seems cheaper than building that underground house and it would come with all appliances and furniture that people normally use (toilet, chairs, table, countertops, stove, fridge, etc). It can also be moved easily if your transportation costs warrant that. I would look for a used RV online (travel trailers often being the cheapest) and try to find a sale. Often retirees pass away and their kids sell their trailers for cheap since they have no use for them.
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jennypenny
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secretwealth
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"In general, the "cheapest" anything is often simply "getting a good deal" on something conventional, holding for some time and then selling it at normal prices. The net cost can be almost zero in such cases."
This is a much better way of thinking of purchases--and, in my experience, the way that rich people tend to think (as investors) instead of the way the middle class tends to think (as consumers). When purchasing, I try not to look for deals as much as I try to look for products with a high resale value--that way, even if I spent a lot of money on the object, that money can be partially (or wholly) regained when reselling.
This is a much better way of thinking of purchases--and, in my experience, the way that rich people tend to think (as investors) instead of the way the middle class tends to think (as consumers). When purchasing, I try not to look for deals as much as I try to look for products with a high resale value--that way, even if I spent a lot of money on the object, that money can be partially (or wholly) regained when reselling.
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Fred Tracy
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Hey guys, thanks for the input, great stuff.
One of the reasons I want an underground house is because there is a huge innate appeal with buying a piece of property and constructing all or most of what I need to live there simply from the property itself. It's almost like a game, really. I'm also in to it heavily for the looks of it, which is why I wanted something like this for awhile: http://www.simondale.net/house/ until I realized underground would be easier and cheaper.
Still though, I haven't thought much about building codes. Granted, if I could get the right plot of land (surrounded by woods) and would in the right spot, I could probably go undetected for awhile. But I wonder how "acceptable" underground housing would be to the codes? Is there a rule stating that you must build above ground and have a foundation? On that note, do you guys know where I might find Oklahoma building codes, because I haven't been able to find any yet online.
Hmmm.. I do like the idea of buying cheaper housing and then selling it later on, but I'm not looking to sell in this case. I'm looking for a sort of home base I can have for quite some time, sort of a beautiful place off in the woods that I've created myself, somewhere nice to meditate, get in touch with nature, all that stuff. That's one reason why I don't really want to get a cheap RV, though it's a good idea, because it would clash with my vision for the yard and such. Same goes for an old mobile home, which my dad recommended.
Transportation costs would be quite a bit lower than renting a place where I wouldn't need a car, especially because I need a car anyway until I retire (I'm a mail carrier). The ghetto apartments here are like $400 something a month, which isn't bad, but I'd still end up paying more than my project in just a few years. Also, we got the police called on us last night for playing drunken hide-and-go-seek at 4 a.m. - one cool bonus is that probably wouldn't happen in the country.
Lot of good points here though, things I didn't consider, being so new to this. Advantages of participating in traditional housing, i.e. no chance in hell of someone wanting to buy my underground house which probably won't have plumbing, etc., and the fact that solar panels and such would probably be very costly, though I suppose eventually pay for themselves?
My main concern is still the building codes. Even if I did get "caught", supposing they just told me to demolish it, as opposed to fining me, I mean, who cares? I'm basically living in a hole that I dug out of a hill.. sure.. I'll demolish it, lol.
One of the reasons I want an underground house is because there is a huge innate appeal with buying a piece of property and constructing all or most of what I need to live there simply from the property itself. It's almost like a game, really. I'm also in to it heavily for the looks of it, which is why I wanted something like this for awhile: http://www.simondale.net/house/ until I realized underground would be easier and cheaper.
Still though, I haven't thought much about building codes. Granted, if I could get the right plot of land (surrounded by woods) and would in the right spot, I could probably go undetected for awhile. But I wonder how "acceptable" underground housing would be to the codes? Is there a rule stating that you must build above ground and have a foundation? On that note, do you guys know where I might find Oklahoma building codes, because I haven't been able to find any yet online.
Hmmm.. I do like the idea of buying cheaper housing and then selling it later on, but I'm not looking to sell in this case. I'm looking for a sort of home base I can have for quite some time, sort of a beautiful place off in the woods that I've created myself, somewhere nice to meditate, get in touch with nature, all that stuff. That's one reason why I don't really want to get a cheap RV, though it's a good idea, because it would clash with my vision for the yard and such. Same goes for an old mobile home, which my dad recommended.
Transportation costs would be quite a bit lower than renting a place where I wouldn't need a car, especially because I need a car anyway until I retire (I'm a mail carrier). The ghetto apartments here are like $400 something a month, which isn't bad, but I'd still end up paying more than my project in just a few years. Also, we got the police called on us last night for playing drunken hide-and-go-seek at 4 a.m. - one cool bonus is that probably wouldn't happen in the country.
Lot of good points here though, things I didn't consider, being so new to this. Advantages of participating in traditional housing, i.e. no chance in hell of someone wanting to buy my underground house which probably won't have plumbing, etc., and the fact that solar panels and such would probably be very costly, though I suppose eventually pay for themselves?
My main concern is still the building codes. Even if I did get "caught", supposing they just told me to demolish it, as opposed to fining me, I mean, who cares? I'm basically living in a hole that I dug out of a hill.. sure.. I'll demolish it, lol.
Well --- suppose the total cost of ownership of a car for getting in and out of town is $200/mo, which is on the frugal side. That's equivalent to $60k capital invested at a 4% SWR. So a $15k home that requires a car is equivalent to a $75k home that doesn't. It's hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison since so many variables are involved, but the point is that being able to forego a car is a valuable feature.
Building codes vary from locality to locality which is probably why you're having a hard time finding information online. Unfortunately this still seems to be a "visit the office and wait in line to talk to a clerk" kind of thing. You could find what the Earthship or Tumbleweed Houses people have said about codes since they have online presences and have faced the same obstacle.
Building codes vary from locality to locality which is probably why you're having a hard time finding information online. Unfortunately this still seems to be a "visit the office and wait in line to talk to a clerk" kind of thing. You could find what the Earthship or Tumbleweed Houses people have said about codes since they have online presences and have faced the same obstacle.
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Fred Tracy
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Hah, I didn't think of it that way. That's very smart. I took a quick look around and found a admittedly crappy-but-doable home in a nearby city I'd love to live for 45k. Even if I get a hyper efficient, hyper reliable care, and hypermile it, I don't think I could get the cost of ownership under $100/month, or 40k at 3% SWR. So I'd be saving money by moving there, though not that much but still.
Def something to think about. It's less romantic to build something that's already there, and to be stuck close to neighbors, but hey - living in town would be nice.
thanks for the info you've got me thinking!
Def something to think about. It's less romantic to build something that's already there, and to be stuck close to neighbors, but hey - living in town would be nice.
thanks for the info you've got me thinking!
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Fred Tracy
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I've been thinking about this all day. I realized that I could just get rid of my car if I lived in the country, and ride an efficient motorcycle instead. I'm thinking my transportation cost would be maybe $50 a month.. $12 for insurance, and maybe $25 gas, and the rest vehicle maintenance.
At that rate, it would take something like 70 years to reach the same price as buying a $50000 house.. BUT if I bought the house, I could rent it out later on if I did this idea, and that would provide some great income.
Man, I don't know. So many good options. Whew!
At that rate, it would take something like 70 years to reach the same price as buying a $50000 house.. BUT if I bought the house, I could rent it out later on if I did this idea, and that would provide some great income.
Man, I don't know. So many good options. Whew!
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George the original one
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Well, the cheapest form of housing is free-loading in someone else's dwelling. 
But you won't win or keep too many friends that way.
I've read a lot about underground dwellings and they seem kind of neat, although I think the challenge is usually compliance with building codes. You would also have to enjoy doing the building to make it worthwhile from a time perspective, IMO. If you don't like that sort of thing, you'd probably be better off looking for a pre-existing structure, which we actually have a glut of in this country, although most of it seems to be located in the wrong places and is not very efficient.
But you won't win or keep too many friends that way.I've read a lot about underground dwellings and they seem kind of neat, although I think the challenge is usually compliance with building codes. You would also have to enjoy doing the building to make it worthwhile from a time perspective, IMO. If you don't like that sort of thing, you'd probably be better off looking for a pre-existing structure, which we actually have a glut of in this country, although most of it seems to be located in the wrong places and is not very efficient.
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Fred Tracy
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Hah, I know that all too well. My girlfriend(ish) is not too excited about pooping in a composting toilet, but hey, it's all good. Besides, I'm sure having my own unconventional place is at least slightly cooler than living with my parents, and I seemed to be able to find a lot of would-be life partners that way.
Actually, though, that's a good point. I'm not much more marriage or long-term monogamy, but if I was, that would be a reason to at least reconsider. Having someone otherwise awesome who was scared away just because of my house would be very uncool.
Lol Dragline, I'm pretty much doing that currently, and it is indeed awesome. Still, I can't be a bum forever!
Building codes are something that's going to be difficult. I may just try to do it and not get caught, as underground structures are rather hidden. I would enjoy the building - this is sort of a dream of mine. I definitely agree, if digging with a shovel for 8 hours of day for a week straight (or whatever) to make my house wasn't my thing, I would spend that time better elsewhere!
Still going between this and conventional housing that I could later resell. Buying a crap house and fixing it up then renting it and doing this could be worthwhile, though really it would push back ERE and I would no longer be in my prime for this back breaking work. It's sort of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I think.
I'm really interested if anyone else has done this. I found a few things at the permies forum, very insightful, always looking for more!
Actually, though, that's a good point. I'm not much more marriage or long-term monogamy, but if I was, that would be a reason to at least reconsider. Having someone otherwise awesome who was scared away just because of my house would be very uncool.
Lol Dragline, I'm pretty much doing that currently, and it is indeed awesome. Still, I can't be a bum forever!
Building codes are something that's going to be difficult. I may just try to do it and not get caught, as underground structures are rather hidden. I would enjoy the building - this is sort of a dream of mine. I definitely agree, if digging with a shovel for 8 hours of day for a week straight (or whatever) to make my house wasn't my thing, I would spend that time better elsewhere!
Still going between this and conventional housing that I could later resell. Buying a crap house and fixing it up then renting it and doing this could be worthwhile, though really it would push back ERE and I would no longer be in my prime for this back breaking work. It's sort of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I think.
I'm really interested if anyone else has done this. I found a few things at the permies forum, very insightful, always looking for more!
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jennypenny
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Much agreed that if this is your dream, do it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the undergroundhousing.com method rely on some kind of moisture barrier wrapping the whole house? I would just be worried that someday it would tear or degrade somewhere due to freeze/thaw, plant roots, or other natural entropy, and then it would be very difficult to find and access the problem area.
I'd be curious to learn more if this is or is not an issue.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the undergroundhousing.com method rely on some kind of moisture barrier wrapping the whole house? I would just be worried that someday it would tear or degrade somewhere due to freeze/thaw, plant roots, or other natural entropy, and then it would be very difficult to find and access the problem area.
I'd be curious to learn more if this is or is not an issue.
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Fred Tracy
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Lmao Jenny... "underground" does make it seem crazy survivalist bomb sheltery..
grendel - Yes, you use polyethlene, like in trash bags, to waterproof it. That substance won't degrade underground - it only degrades after being exposed to UV light. You also protect the poly with newspapers or whatever, and you build the structure in such a way that the rain naturally falls off and does not get collected in any problem areas.
From what I understand, it's actually quite sound, and has a plethora of benefits, including the looks, the incredible heating/cooling properties of living in earth, only requiring 50% of building materials compared to above ground, and much more.
I think it's a great idea.. the only thing stopping me is that I could instead get a traditional house, live in it, fix it up, then rent it out, THEN do this project, and I'd have some nice income. But I've got aways still to decide what I want.
grendel - Yes, you use polyethlene, like in trash bags, to waterproof it. That substance won't degrade underground - it only degrades after being exposed to UV light. You also protect the poly with newspapers or whatever, and you build the structure in such a way that the rain naturally falls off and does not get collected in any problem areas.
From what I understand, it's actually quite sound, and has a plethora of benefits, including the looks, the incredible heating/cooling properties of living in earth, only requiring 50% of building materials compared to above ground, and much more.
I think it's a great idea.. the only thing stopping me is that I could instead get a traditional house, live in it, fix it up, then rent it out, THEN do this project, and I'd have some nice income. But I've got aways still to decide what I want.