I didn't think it was possible to give up the car now because I have a small child. However, while looking for some maintenance equipment for my scooter I found this:
http://www.vespaspares.co.uk/spares/par ... E95R&uid=0
It says it's for children from age 3-8. I know in most places in the world no one would care if you had a kid on a scooter, but in the US I'm concerned that I might get a ticket or at least get scolded by fellow parents. Does anyone here have experience with young kids riding on scooters or motorcycles? Is it legal in the US? What is the minimum age/height? Can I give up the car in favor of a pair of scooters even with a small child?
(FYI, the baby is 19 mo now, I wouldn't put him in the seat until at least age three as recommended.)
Scooting with kids
I have a motorcycle not a scooter, but I'll chime in anyways because I've thought about this quite a bit.
I was thinking to get a scooter with child seat when my son gets to be about 5, but then I realized that I wouldn't feel comfortable going on major roads with him on the scooter. And if I'm only willing to go on short rides (e.g. to the grocery store), I might as well just take him in his bike trailer. So as of now I'm not planning on doing it.
The reason I wouldn't go on a major road is because I'm not comfortable putting him in increased danger. I knowingly ride my motorcycle and understand the risks - that's my personal choice. But as a 5 year old, he's not old enough to decide for himself what is safe and unsafe.
I was thinking to get a scooter with child seat when my son gets to be about 5, but then I realized that I wouldn't feel comfortable going on major roads with him on the scooter. And if I'm only willing to go on short rides (e.g. to the grocery store), I might as well just take him in his bike trailer. So as of now I'm not planning on doing it.
The reason I wouldn't go on a major road is because I'm not comfortable putting him in increased danger. I knowingly ride my motorcycle and understand the risks - that's my personal choice. But as a 5 year old, he's not old enough to decide for himself what is safe and unsafe.
Mirwen, most of the scooters around here are the 50cc ones (cheap registration, no insurance needed). Our state law states that those are specifically for one person. I only rarely see them being ridden two-up.
I have a Ninja 250 with about 12,000 miles on it. I've never carried a passenger. I wouldn't have consider taking someone under, say, 16 years old out, if I did have a good candidate. And I'm sure my wife would have a lot to say about it now, if my 22 YO son wanted a ride. Plus we would be at the weight limit.
Legally, I think the passenger on a larger scooter/MC needs to have a legal helmet. I don't recall any issues with age/height restrictions, but I never checked. I certainly remember back in the 80's seeing children on the back, probably about age 6+.
I have a Ninja 250 with about 12,000 miles on it. I've never carried a passenger. I wouldn't have consider taking someone under, say, 16 years old out, if I did have a good candidate. And I'm sure my wife would have a lot to say about it now, if my 22 YO son wanted a ride. Plus we would be at the weight limit.
Legally, I think the passenger on a larger scooter/MC needs to have a legal helmet. I don't recall any issues with age/height restrictions, but I never checked. I certainly remember back in the 80's seeing children on the back, probably about age 6+.
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spider1204
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You're right, most of the world wouldn't care about you riding a scooter with your kid. I've seen a whole family (Parents, + 3 kids) riding a scooter to school in India. The kids also start riding scooters by the time they are 10, although it's not really legal until mu8ch later. However, this also assumes a certain kind of driving environment in which people can never get above 30mph, and everyone else on the road is used to dealing with scooters on the road. In the US things would be a lot more dangerous simply because most driver's wouldn't expect a scooter to be on the road, and they might also be driving 50-60mph down a country road.
@Mirwen
I found this that says it's apparently now illegal to have a child passenger under the age of 5 on a motorcycle in Washington state. I expect a scooter would be treated the same. But it looks like that's the exception, and most states have no such laws.
As for getting scolded by fellow parents? Yeah, I think if any child is transported in anything other than a military-sized behemoth, surrounded by government-approved safety devices, and a bottle of hand-sanitizer, it's now considered child-abuse.
I found this that says it's apparently now illegal to have a child passenger under the age of 5 on a motorcycle in Washington state. I expect a scooter would be treated the same. But it looks like that's the exception, and most states have no such laws.
As for getting scolded by fellow parents? Yeah, I think if any child is transported in anything other than a military-sized behemoth, surrounded by government-approved safety devices, and a bottle of hand-sanitizer, it's now considered child-abuse.
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jennypenny
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@Mirwen--Motorized scooters are allowed in my state, and children can ride as long as they are in an approved child carrier if they are young enough to require a car seat when in a car. All kids have to wear helmits up to age 12. Around here, scooters and pedalcycles can be driven in the shoulder and on bike paths so maybe that's an option for you.
@mikeBOS--haha, you are so right. We call them the Mommy Police (think of the Church Police). Today at school, I had a mom I don't know lean in the open window of my car and tell me the music I had on was inappropriate for my son (White Stripes was on). I assured her I listen to music that is much worse around him so White Stripes was probably fine. (she didn't think my joke was funny and stormed off)
@mikeBOS--haha, you are so right. We call them the Mommy Police (think of the Church Police). Today at school, I had a mom I don't know lean in the open window of my car and tell me the music I had on was inappropriate for my son (White Stripes was on). I assured her I listen to music that is much worse around him so White Stripes was probably fine. (she didn't think my joke was funny and stormed off)
I think Florida has a minimum 5 year age limit and anyone under 16 has to wear a helmet.
However we do have a funny law...I never see it enforced though, maybe the cops don't know about it...where PASSENGERS must wear helmets but he operator is free to go helmetless.
FWIW...ALWAYS wear a helmet...one kept my head intact when I was rear ended on my motorcycle (bike totaled...I only got road rash) by a hit-and-run street racer.
People who don't wear helmets have their own nickname....Organ Donors.
However we do have a funny law...I never see it enforced though, maybe the cops don't know about it...where PASSENGERS must wear helmets but he operator is free to go helmetless.
FWIW...ALWAYS wear a helmet...one kept my head intact when I was rear ended on my motorcycle (bike totaled...I only got road rash) by a hit-and-run street racer.
People who don't wear helmets have their own nickname....Organ Donors.
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jennypenny
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@jenneypenney
The general cutoff is whether it has pedals or not...pedals=bicycle though if it has a motor you have to register it like a regular vehicle and you get a generic tag that says "moped"...no pedals=motorcycle with a sort of gray area in the up to 50cc motor size range.
Kids are supposed to wear helmets on bicycles too now..(nanny state)...I believe 15 is the age cutoff for that.
In Florida you must take a 2 day course from the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (offered by every motorcyle dealer...only way they can sell bikes) in order to take the test and get a "Motorcycle Endorsement" on your license.
You must have the endorsement to ride anything rated more than "5 brake horsepower"...that means anything with a motor larger than 50cc.
Interesting enough 50cc comes in at 4.9 brake horsepower...they also usually only do 30-35 mph wide open and IMO are dangerous as all get out anywhere OTHER THAN neighborhood streets. If the speed limit is over 35 MPH you need to stay off that road. Too many inattentive cell talking/texting drivers to notice a slower moving small scooter.
I was doing 50 in a 50 speed limit when I was hit by the street racer.
The general cutoff is whether it has pedals or not...pedals=bicycle though if it has a motor you have to register it like a regular vehicle and you get a generic tag that says "moped"...no pedals=motorcycle with a sort of gray area in the up to 50cc motor size range.
Kids are supposed to wear helmets on bicycles too now..(nanny state)...I believe 15 is the age cutoff for that.
In Florida you must take a 2 day course from the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (offered by every motorcyle dealer...only way they can sell bikes) in order to take the test and get a "Motorcycle Endorsement" on your license.
You must have the endorsement to ride anything rated more than "5 brake horsepower"...that means anything with a motor larger than 50cc.
Interesting enough 50cc comes in at 4.9 brake horsepower...they also usually only do 30-35 mph wide open and IMO are dangerous as all get out anywhere OTHER THAN neighborhood streets. If the speed limit is over 35 MPH you need to stay off that road. Too many inattentive cell talking/texting drivers to notice a slower moving small scooter.
I was doing 50 in a 50 speed limit when I was hit by the street racer.
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millionairerednecknextdoor
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I am glad you asked this because I need to know this law also. Though my child is older.
In China parents pick their kids up in scooters from school. They even had babies on them sitting in strapped on milk crates. The school car lines moved fast. The kids hop on and off they go. Though the heavy traffic made them drive a bit slower than the traffic in my town. Dressed up couples ride on them. I have even seen entire families on just one scooting around.
We have 3 kids but 2 soon grown. When we are down to the youngest we plan to use a scooter for transportation. I live on a country winding road but think I can pull this off.
If I was not so far away from things and my child was younger I would get a Madsen bike with a cargo bucket. Have you seen those?
http://www.madsencycles.com/
In China parents pick their kids up in scooters from school. They even had babies on them sitting in strapped on milk crates. The school car lines moved fast. The kids hop on and off they go. Though the heavy traffic made them drive a bit slower than the traffic in my town. Dressed up couples ride on them. I have even seen entire families on just one scooting around.
We have 3 kids but 2 soon grown. When we are down to the youngest we plan to use a scooter for transportation. I live on a country winding road but think I can pull this off.
If I was not so far away from things and my child was younger I would get a Madsen bike with a cargo bucket. Have you seen those?
http://www.madsencycles.com/
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jennypenny
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Trebuchets are way overpriced when all you need it for is to get you from point A to point B.
I'd be wary of the used slingshots though...never know if the previous owner kept up the maintenance on the sling rubber or if it was replaced according to manufacturers recommened schedule.
No fun to have the rubber break and leave you in a pickle.
I'd be wary of the used slingshots though...never know if the previous owner kept up the maintenance on the sling rubber or if it was replaced according to manufacturers recommened schedule.
No fun to have the rubber break and leave you in a pickle.
Thanks for the tip about the Madsen cycles. Those look really neat but I couldn't do it in the summer desert heat here. I've always loved scooters and I just bought a 50cc Vespa for myself for "school." It's part of my insidious plan to convert my husband to scooters instead of cars, but I'd have to get over the objection that we *have* to have a car for the baby.
We live in Las Vegas, and like many recently developed western cities, it has a nice grid layout with very wide roads. There's a fairly consistent pattern of 45mph/30mph roads. All the cars drive on the 45mph roads and I can just take the slow roads parallel to the main road where there's hardly any traffic. I ride at no more than 30mph and I'm usually in the bike lane. I still get to my destination in the same amount of time. Day to day stuff would be no problem, but what if I want to take him across town to my mother's house? I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that on the scooter. Perhaps I could take the bus, but it would take 3 hours one way.
I checked out the NRSs (Nevada revised statutes) on motorcycles/mopeds and it says that you can only carry passengers if the bike was designed to carry a passenger and they must have footrests at the proper height for the rider. It doesn't mention any age/height restrictions. My bike with that child seat certainly fits that description. However, child restraints are required for age 5 and under and I don't know if that child seat would qualify. I doubt it's been approved by the DOT. It was designed and approved for European children only.
I would certainly have a helmet for him. I thought that was obvious, so I didn't mention it. I think a bicycle helmet would be fine. Do they make baby motorbike helmets or baby leather? : ) It is Halloween after all.
We live in Las Vegas, and like many recently developed western cities, it has a nice grid layout with very wide roads. There's a fairly consistent pattern of 45mph/30mph roads. All the cars drive on the 45mph roads and I can just take the slow roads parallel to the main road where there's hardly any traffic. I ride at no more than 30mph and I'm usually in the bike lane. I still get to my destination in the same amount of time. Day to day stuff would be no problem, but what if I want to take him across town to my mother's house? I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that on the scooter. Perhaps I could take the bus, but it would take 3 hours one way.
I checked out the NRSs (Nevada revised statutes) on motorcycles/mopeds and it says that you can only carry passengers if the bike was designed to carry a passenger and they must have footrests at the proper height for the rider. It doesn't mention any age/height restrictions. My bike with that child seat certainly fits that description. However, child restraints are required for age 5 and under and I don't know if that child seat would qualify. I doubt it's been approved by the DOT. It was designed and approved for European children only.
I would certainly have a helmet for him. I thought that was obvious, so I didn't mention it. I think a bicycle helmet would be fine. Do they make baby motorbike helmets or baby leather? : ) It is Halloween after all.
Oh, and thanks you guys for being thoughtful and not irate. I've seen some pretty inflammatory remarks on some other forums. In my opinion, if it's safe to have a baby in a seat on a bicycle, it might be OK for a scooter that goes under 30 too. I still haven't made up my mind, but I thought it was worth exploring.
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millionairerednecknextdoor
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dot_com_vet
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millionairerednecknextdoor: If I offended you, I'm sorry -- I was just joking (or making conversation). I wasn't even responding to your post - I was inspired by spider's remark that kids in India learn how to ride at an early age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition)
I think it's hard to come up with a real opinion since there's probably no good data out there for scooters that people keep under 30mph (I assume motorcycle stats are skewed by certain demographics).
Nevertheless, I think spider is entirely correct that "However, this also assumes a certain kind of driving environment in which people can never get above 30mph, and everyone else on the road is used to dealing with scooters on the road. In the US things would be a lot more dangerous simply because most driver's wouldn't expect a scooter to be on the road, and they might also be driving 50-60mph down a country road."
I think it's hard to come up with a real opinion since there's probably no good data out there for scooters that people keep under 30mph (I assume motorcycle stats are skewed by certain demographics).
Nevertheless, I think spider is entirely correct that "However, this also assumes a certain kind of driving environment in which people can never get above 30mph, and everyone else on the road is used to dealing with scooters on the road. In the US things would be a lot more dangerous simply because most driver's wouldn't expect a scooter to be on the road, and they might also be driving 50-60mph down a country road."