Volution Maps

[daylen]

Okay, so I am not sure what this is yet but it is so simple that I figured it can become something interesting. If not just to present paradoxes of one kind or another. Been thinking about the following diagram and how it can be split into inorganic and organic versions where something like rock and crystal formations split the two.



Then I figured that perhaps there is a point at which an agent become self-aware and this leads to a future development into the macro and micro with a self-referential tendency. I was also pulling in the split between evolution and involution signifying a split between exteriors and interiors. Basically, bringing volution into the foreground with something else in the background. Perhaps the background simply being spacetime split into scale and time, leading to the following diagram I am calling a volution map. Along with an additional synergy with revolutions whereby the unconscious evolution of a system/agent meets the conscious involution of that system/agent at a particular scale.



Not sure what will come of this, but I'll probably do some extension work here in the meantime.

[daylen]

Further leading to a split of involution into microinvolution and macroinvolution. I am presuming that the scale remains in the IT and later I quadrants but could also split into the ITS and later WE quadrants depending on the agent.

[daylen]

Further leading to something like this with multiple agents signified by point intersections across different scales and times.



Perhaps also indicating a meaning in the length of lines extending from each agent. Other degrees of freedom arising in the angles forming the volution meshwork. Perhaps a heterogeneous mix of diamonds indicating variation in volution speeds.

Another thought related to different scales for scales and time (i.e. linear vs exponential). Could also let the units of each centered on what is natural for a particular agent on the map.

[daylen]

That leading to a volution diamond with some yet to be determined internal structure along with external spirals. From past to future, we have evospirals and invospirals, and from small to large, we have microspirals and macrospirals.



Irony perhaps hidden in the implied inter-mixing of internal spirals into helices like DNA.

[daylen]

Pathy (i.e. empathy and sympathy) stemming from the triangulation of agents via spiraling. Simulating how each agent spirals backwards/forwards in time as well as up/down in scale. A diamond formed from the quadration of agents forming a [multi-]helix with revolutions signified by horizontal movement and convolutions signified by vertical movement.

[daylen]

The orientation of the spirals in two ways indicating a chirality. That is, a left/right first step that spirals out of control(*). To be potentially contained through unionization of a difference in scale or time that makes a difference in the normalizing/opposing dimension.

(*) Where this thread instantiates: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=12107&p=248282

[daylen]

Additional pathway being a link to a post I wrote in my journal here(*), where I talked about agent windows. With lower/upper revolutions crossing time and past/future convolutions crossing scale to form an agent window.
(*) viewtopic.php?p=247324#p247324

[daylen]

Then add a civil gem as a compliment to civil maps discussed in the Drawing Agency thread(*). Allowing for crystallization patterns/formations that point in scale-time via civil vectors. Perhaps allowing for generation of correlative and causal links between various volutions in the gem.
(*) viewtopic.php?p=247939#p247939

[daylen]

Maybe something like this for an organic volution template. Where rock on the scale of tectonic plate meets crystal on the scale of the first replicator to form organic life. The volution possibly extending out to the macro-revolution of super clusters meeting up with super nets of rock collecting vehicles and to the micro-revolution of quantum net representation reading into the memory of computational cores.

[daylen]

This is pushing a bit cause I am not all that familiar with particle physics and cosmology so it is hard to tell alignment. Though, here is a more granular version of the organic volution map above. I figure that the upper/lower sections could be used to fit a categorical holoarchy extending towards upper/lower middle and that the left/right sections could be used to fit a drawing of some kind.

Revolutions
supercluster - supernet
cluster - net
galaxy - subnet
sol - worm
planet - geo

heavy - rare
light - printer
lepton - material
hadron - core
quark - quantumnet

Convolutions
quark - supercluster
hadron - cluster
lepton - galaxy
light - sol
heavy - planet

crystal-rock

rare - geo
printer - worm
material - subnet
core - net
quantumnet - supernet




With nets and worms being built from post and pre relativistic swarms of rings that mine rock and print crystal formations.

[Gilberto de Piento]

I can't follow your ideas let alone contribute, too smart for me, but I'm glad you're out there thinking about them and sharing with us.

[daylen]

@Gilberto

Thanks for the support! I am usually attempting to catch up with myself as much of my content is produced in flows where several month/year long matches are finally being patched. Hopefully some of my flows will stitch together in a more understandable way with practice/time.

[jacob]

Okay, so I am not sure what this is yet but it is so simple that I figured it can become something interesting. If not just to present paradoxes of one kind or another. Been thinking about the following diagram and how it can be split into inorganic and organic versions where something like rock and crystal formations split the two.

It's deceptively alluring and appealing. This is IIRC (there's so much) where the two lines come together at the Omega Point ala Teilhard de Chardin. It is a spiral and would probably be better drawn as such.

The exterior line is "tangential energy" and we know that in great detail. Given the lack of diminishing returns at ever higher resolution in physics, I'm very tempted to say we know everything there is to know.

The interior line "spiritual energy" and that's definitely not scientific in the scientific sense. This refers to gross(*), transpersonal (psychic, subtle, causal), and non-dual states. And here's my point of interest: The non-gross states are only available to human brains with well-trained complexity. IOW, given the internet is not a global brain other than in the gross sense, this is where the involution in the pic above is stuck.

(*) "Material world" (the one with the tangential or instrumental perspective on energy), as associated with alpha and beta brain waves.

You've probably seen the video where Wilber selectively switches off parts his brain. From an instrumentalist perspective, this suggests that humans can serve as detectors of the spiritual realm. Not really interested in whether it's real-real, but suffice to say second-hand insists that it's experienced as real.

In that regard, human evolution beyond egocentric, ethnocentric, or even worldcentric levels, at least deserves a serious push in the internal direction. From an emergent renaissance ecology perspective, the question is whether this can/will be done by a few going into those realms and bringing insight back for the regular folks (like it's done in science where only a few understand the science) or this line requires much more of humanity to evolve internally. Further reading may be Thomas Berry's work (not to be confused with Wendell Berry).

Add: David Deutsch ("Theory of Everything") might be useful for lining things up.

[jacob]

One interesting and much simpler application with this framework (insofar I grok it correction) that might make it more understandable by analogy (tying it into what people already know) is that of trading in the market.

On the one axis you have trading-size going from 1share (noob humans, fishing algorithms) over 100-1000sh (daytraders, retail investors) to 100k-1M (private equity, professionals) to 10M shares (block traders, institutional traders).

On the other axis you have microsecond (intraspread, special orders on matching engine), millisecond (GPU algos, hardware), ~1s (human "gamer" traders), ~1hr (pit/swing/day-traders), ... 20yr (retirement hodlers), 50+yr (endowments,...).

These all interact and because there's a "national best price"-mandate (even in the dark pools) the entire trading universe is forced to interact at all levels (timescales and sizes).

The beauty of this simplistic model is that the complete evolution and involution already exist because the market is bounded and well-defined. It's hard to observe (data is $$$) but it is at least in principle possible (all the data exists somewhere).

The main challenge (goal?!) is to bring this understanding into the mind of a single entity and that is extremely hard. Such an entity might be the brain of human, a published paper, an algorithm, the culture of a financial company, or the decisions of a central bank.

The tools for grokking even this are crude. Because of the primitiveness of the tools, type II errors (failure to detect an actual signal) are rampant. So here there are continued calls for volution as well as fallacies of incredulity.

[7Wannabe5]

What seems to be missing is the continuing evolution and interconnection of all different sorts of species and strategies. The sort of thing that is touched on lightly in books such as "Ten Million Aliens: A Journey Through the Entire Animal Kingdom" by Simon Barnes, "Metazoa: Animal Life and the Birth of the Mind" by Peter Godfrey-Smith or "Entangled Life: How Fungi Make Our Worlds, Change Our Minds & Shape Our Futures" by Merlin Sheldrake.

The intersection of these and the ideas about information developed by Claude Shannon which were mentioned in the linked article about the Omega Point is further developed in "Information Theory, Inference, and Learning Algorithms" by David J.C. Mackay.

https://www.inference.org.uk/itprnn/book.pdf

How we answer questions about independent evolution of similar strategies. For instance, why Ravens also carry fire. Also, why other species who carry more information in their genomes may be less flexible in expression of intelligence. etc. etc. etc.

[daylen]

@7w5 All species/strategies are included in organic volution. Agents in this context are any entities that make use of self-reference, whether through genes, memes, or tech. A geo being a planet in organic equilibrium with presumably many species/strategies participating in a spiritual dance of sorts with stabilized tangential energy. A worm being the colonization of a sol or solar system through the mining of something like an asteroid belt with tech being of the scale to act almost organism-like, presumably by mimicking local geos and using light additive printers/manufacturing. With sub-nets, nets, and super-nets extending onto this further with gradations of travel tech. Another note being that organic volution could be extended to include non-carbon based life and that such a diagram is not centered on Earth but on all such bridges of rock and crystal in existence, anywhere.

As I figure that even in a multi-verse situation, there must be some coupling or interaction for the other verses to be known/referenced. Interesting side lens being into the new Loki series where such multiverses are independently stable until an agent figures out how to transfer energy.. then chaos.. until an agent figures out how to integrate into a stable loop.. then chaos breaks out again to be explored in the upcoming movie Multiverse of Madness. With the raising popularity leading me to think that humans are on the cusp of some kind of spiritual awakening. Though, the extent to which such serves merely as a spiritual prop is hard to say as it could be just another commodification of yoga situation.

[daylen]

Inorganic volution may even start to include geological processes that bridge rock and crystal (e.g. volcanic eruption, storms, quakes, etc.). Rock and crystal both being solid and thus less subject to fluid dynamics. With rock being more inhomogeneous and crystal being more homogeneous. Combining to form stable patterns of self-reference and self-volution. As all the information for local, geo integration is right here with us. The human path through being fish-like to reptile-like to mammal-like to primate-like.. is with all of us and can be modulated towards adaptation in a novel context of planetary cluttering and stifling stagnation.

With something like the fungal nets below our feet acting as a mostly untouched subtle realm that could synergize with the gross, technological internet to help modulate spiritual flow into deep time (i.e. like in Avatar).

[jacob]

I suggest reading https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KGJX8E/ for a potential physical science basis. Alternate reality/cosmological theories are a dime a dozen. The main problem is that they're hard to choose in that they do not have to fit that many observables. Research is driven mostly by the goal of understanding observations(*). E.g. galaxies are seen to be rotating too fast to hold together (excess centrifugal force). Two explanations: 1) postulate dark energy with enough mass to hold things together; 2) change the law of gravity so that 1/r^2 is the small (still talking light years) scale approximation with another term for far larger distances that is not detectable at mere solar system distances ... this would of course be very hard to test w/o the ability to fly across the galaxy.

(*) So truth over beauty or good.

There's also the hypothesis of so-called morphic fields (see Sheldrake). That's a different can of worms. From an ex-physicist pov I realize that "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed in your philosophy, Horatio" but one also has to be careful about falling into the rabbit hole of woo. For example, one thing I didn't know is that it's apparently really hard to crystallize a given compound for the FIRST time but after it's happened some place on the planet, it becomes much easier to do again in a laboratory elsewhere even if that lab is supposedly isolated from the first. That is weird, right?! Why is that? Well, enter the morphic field ... or perhaps once crystals have formed they become part of the atmosphere. We're all currently breathing millions of air molecules that has been in each others lungs ... so perhaps it's just that... so not entirely isolated. Anyhoo ... care must be taken.

[daylen]

Earth being ripe for the conditions of organic volution due in part due to the intermixing of solids like rock and crystal with fluids/gases like water, air, and lava. Other planets may have such solids and fluids locked in place due to insufficient mass or gravitational energy for mixing through inorganic volution processes. With something like an ocean planet trapped below an ice cap unable to volve fire tech which seems to be a vital pre-requisite for many other techs. Though, there are also presumably many great filters that must be passed in the tech tree and thus ocean worlds may volve more stably, albeit more slowly towards geo integration.

[daylen]

@Jacob Yeah, I sorta like straddling the woo line . On one hand, I could potentially get too far out there and no one would really listen to me. On the other hand, it can be energizing to ride the wave. Seems like Deepak Chopra and Timothy Leary went too far, too quickly.