spoonman's Journal

[spoonman]

@GTOO: You lucky dog! Holy cow, you're set man. Thanks for the suggestions, if we go back to the area we'll be sure to check out Smugglers Cove.

@Tyler9000: Thanks!

[spoonman]

#110 04/03/2015 -- March Expense Blurb

For the month of March our net spending was $1570, well under our budget of $1860. We spent very little on things such as home supplies, but food was higher than we wanted because we had to buy a couple of big meals early in the month. I think the ongoing theme here is that the biggest challenge is the food category. All it takes is a couple of expensive restaurant meals to put us over budget. Sometimes that can’t be helped, especially when we’re entertaining guests or picking up the tab at a restaurant.

[BPA]

I appreciate your commentary about your monthly expenses. I can imagine that meals out will be what sometimes makes my budget higher than necessary. The good news is that your expenses are still significantly less than your income.

Love the pictures too. I miss the ocean.

[spoonman]

@BPA: Glad you are enjoying the updates. As our passive income grows year by year this will become less of a problem, but we do have to watch out.

[FI Fighter]

Awesome pictures! Oregon looks incredible. I visited once before but unfortunately at a bad time when it was pouring rain all week ;(

[FI Fighter]

Awesome pictures! Oregon looks incredible. I visited once before but unfortunately at a bad time when it was pouring rain all week ;(

[spoonman]

@FI Fighter: That's the same thing that happened to us three years ago when we scoped out the area. We try to time our adventures during days when the sun is out or when we know it won't rain.

[spoonman]

#111 04/07/2015 -- Thoughts on Walkable Neighborhoods

After much thought and observation, I have concluded that living in a very walkable area is the key to enjoying the place we live in. Nothing beats the ability to go anywhere we need to by foot. No fuss and no complications, just simple walking.

In the past two years we’ve lived in three different types of dwellings. In 2013 we lived in a condo that was situated in a gated community with a dismal walkscore of 45. Then we sold our condo and moved to an apartment in a more urban area with a walkscore of 85. We currently live in an apartment in a suburban area with a so-so walkscore of 63. Although our current place is within walking distance to a few stores, walking around here isn’t that enjoyable because there aren’t that many meaningful places to walk to.

But I guess I should start at the beginning. Why did we move to a condo with a terrible walkscore to begin with? Well, back when we bought the place in 2009 our idea of financial independence was very different. At the time, I estimated our FI horizon to be on the order of 15 years and figured that buying a house was a critical part of reaching that horizon. We wanted to live in a place similar to Agrestic, the fictional suburban town of the show Weeds. Eventually we learned that we needed to eject the house in order to escape the rat race much sooner. Additionally, we started to dislike the fact that we couldn’t walk anywhere of consequence. Hell, the damn grocery store was 10 minutes away by car.

Leaving the condo was definitely a good move. The apartment we moved to afterward was by far the more exciting place to live in. There were times when we didn’t touch the car for three weeks, it just sat there collecting dust because we walked everywhere and took the bus to work. The high walkscore of 85 was indicative the fact that we lived two blocks from a grocery store and close to a very lively street with lots of stores and shops.

As we travel around the world and get to experience different neighborhoods, we will continue to assess our need for a high walkscore. But who knows, maybe in the future we’ll fall in love with suburbia again and not care about walkability. But in the meantime, I very much look forward to our apartment in Montreal with a walkscore of 97.

[C40]

I just tested a few of my recent addresses. The scores were 35, 55, 60, 95. It seems these ratings are based on distance from any location you can spend money.

For me, the only things that really mattered were:
- Distance to grocery store
- Distance to a park (or suitable outdoor relaxation area.. having a home with yard/porch/etc. decreases importance.
- Quality of and distance to roads that I'd enjoy bicycling on for exercise and recreation

The 35 point location was a significant drive from places to spend money. It was within 2 miles of good biking roads. It was also within a city that (during the warm half of the year) was a joy to ride by bike to downtown.

The 55 point location was actually the best. It was 1 block away from a grocery store, 2-3 blocks from the library, 3 blocks from work, 5 blocks from a few different parks. It had incredible bicycling roads - in 5+ directions out of town - all within a couple miles.

The 95 point location was downtown in a medium-sized college town. It was perfect for walking to bars. A library was 4 blocks away. The college football stadium was 5 blocks away so that was nice for the 1 or so game I went to per year. That's basically it. It was fun living downtown though - it does feel more alive. It was a good location for my friends to come over. And also good for bringing home girls from the bars . It was about 4 miles to ONE decent bicycling road going out of town. The next best was like 10 miles away.

[spoonman]

@C40: You make a great point that the walkscore includes things that may not necessarily be of importance. I definitely place the greatest weight on proximity to a grocery store, that's the first thing I look for now whenever I scope out apartments. The proximity to a grocery store was one of the reasons why we hardly ever used our car in the place with a score of 85.

I haven't looked at the walkscore website recently, but I wonder if there's a way to place greater weight on certain places, like libraries and grocery stores. I suppose I could construct my own vector quantity and then take the "norm". I think that's what they do in the walkscore website; a scalar from a vector of proximities.

I'm a total sucker for downtown areas precisely because they feel more alive. I'm an INTJ, but I guess I still crave the stimulation that comes with being in a real happening area.

I am (somewhat ashamed) to admit that I am one of the few people in the ERE community that isn't in love with bikes. When we were getting ready to move to the 85 apartment, I was almost certain I would get a bike. But then we just started walking around town and I sort of forgot about a bike altogether.

[George the original one]

The few times I've used one, I find a bike is a timesaver and range extender, provided you have someplace safe to stash it at the destination. It's not so suitable for conversing in a group compared to walking. In other words, the bicycle is about utilitarian travel rather than social travel.

[cmonkey]

My home has a walk score of 0! I blame the 4 lane highway that separates me from town

However, I proved it wrong since I now walk to the bus stop 1/4 mile down the way. I guess its hard to have a walkable lifestyle and still own enough land for chickens, gardens and an orchard. Particularly around here, home prices in city limits are quite high. Anything with more than 1/4 acre is out of the question.

[Tyler9000]

To me, the biggest limitation to Walkscore is the implied walking distance. It assumes people are wimps.

My house has a Walkscore of only 35. But within a 2-mile radius (40 minute walk) there's a grocery store, three schools, a matinee movie theater, a bookstore, a Wal-mart, a hardware store, a Dr's office, a dentist, and a good number of restaurants and shops. And our immediate neighborhood has a nice park and trail system (complete with lots of trees and several water fountains along the way) that makes walking to stuff quite nice. If I can find a good way to cross a major road I can even add a huge shopping mall(!) and our church to the list, but for now I just take the very short drive.

Being downtown with a store on every corner has its perks, but to label our location as "car-dependent" makes me wonder if walkscore programmers actually like to walk.

[mxlr650]

I should note that we also took the time to visit the Seattle central library. All I have to say is holy shit. That library is something else. The building gave me the impression of a futuristic Archology. The main archive has an impressive spiral configuration that allows it to store extra books. It’s the Taj Mahal of modern libraries!

Holy shit indeed. If Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Central_Library were to be believed, the cost for this library is ridiculous, however it looks awesome. Compare it to the more utilitarian library that I frequent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jos%C ... ic_Library.

BTW, downtown Montreal is great for walking around(been there few times), and as you say it has a Franco feel to it. Montreal is also 2-3 hours from Quebec City that few streets that is even more European. Enjoy your time in Montreal!

[DividendGuy]

I have a serious crush on Portland, partly because of you, Spoonman.

I've gotta make it out there some day and check it out for myself. Seems like just an awesome city.

Thanks for the pictures. Cannon Beach is beautiful.

[spoonman]

@GTOO: That's true, I hadn't thought about that. Walking and chatting go well together.

@cmonkey: Yup, something's gotta give. A place in a walkable area comes with a hefty premium.

@Tyler9000: Haha! Yeah, there are some implicit assumptions in the score. I personally like all of my shops to be within a one mile radius, so a one-way trip of no more than 20 minutes. Well, let me more precise: I like the grocery store to be close by, but I don't mind if other places are 20-30 minutes away by foot.

@mxlr650: I've heard a lot of good things about Quebec City, I think it will be a must-see place for us. I'm hoping we can take a train there.

@DividendGuy: Yeah, Portland has a great vibe that is still largely unspoiled. The craft beer scene there is incredible.

[jacob]

Technically speaking, I suppose (how I hate when people do this to me ;-P ) that walkscore has a _limited_ database of "services" (shops, bars, libraries, bus stops, ...) along with an algorithm (weighted distance, traveling salesman, clustering, ...) that computes a score, and that's it. Keep in mind that _it has_ to result in a generic _number_ that the average person (=a complete walking wimp) finds useful. And there you go.

Downtown Chicago is in the high 90s. In terms of reasonably priced groceries it's a desert

We're at 72. We have a Walgreens, a funeral home, a bank, several barber shops, a mom&pop supermarket that takes Link (food stamps), another one that doesn't, a lawyer, a state politician HQ, a public park pool (25m swim), and two bus stops within two blocks.

[spoonman]

@jacob: Based on all the comments here, I guess we can conclude that the walkscore has to be taken with a grain of salt, or maybe just used as a starting point. It's sort of like using valuation multiples and other metrics to screen for stocks, but not letting a specific metric form the basis of an investment decision.

About expensive groceries, yeah, I am willing to bet a high walkscore correlates well with expensive grocery stores. I'd be willing to pay more for groceries if it means I get to ride the "L" =).

[BPA]

It's amusing that the attitude toward Walkscore is rather different between the MMM and ERE forums.

In this case, I'm more ERE. My brother lived in Montreal when he was in university and loved it for the culture and how close everything is. He is rooming with me in suburbia now and I think it makes him feel old.

[spoonman]

Montreal is awesome, but boy does it get cold in the winter! I've heard that it gets down to -40 degrees, which is insanely cold.

We'll be in Montreal soon, I'm totally psyched!