Old and Broke - Angelpie's Life and Times

[Angelpie]

Age: Let's just say close to retirement age
Financial situation: Lost it all -- everything -- house, car, job, savings, most of my possessions. I still have about 1/3 of the material possessions I own, which would fit quite nicely into a 500sf abode.
Job: Freelance writer, but actually I'll do anything legal someone will pay me to do.
Desire: To be able to live the most frugal lifestyle possible for the next 5 years, so that I can save at least 50% of my income and hopefully retire by 70.

I am one of the casualties of the economy. I had it all planned, but I got screwed by the company I worked for. Ended up with no job, no unemployment and no retirement. Spent all my savings because I, like so many others, expected the economy to turn around. It didn't and it never will for us older workers, so I started doing freelance writing online. I screwed up by not taking it seriously enough when things were good because I thought I would only be doing it a short time. Now Google has gone and Pandalized everything, and I'm having a hard time making ends meet.

I rent a room in a house in FL for less than $400 a month, but I fell into such a bad depression that I have not made any headway on my situation in over 3 years. In fact, I am dead broke right now, with little prospect of making a good living. I hate where I live, because there is not a good bus system, so wherever I go from here, it has to have good public transportation.

At this point, I'm ready to work 12-14 hour days if I must to get back into good financial shape. I am extremely frugal, can do with next to nothing, know how to grow my own food, and hate spending money if I don't have to.

My plan is to either live in a tent or a vehicle (if and when I can afford one) until I can get my emergency fund built back up. Then I'd like to have a place no larger than 500 sf. My dream is to build an eco-home out of bottle bricks and pallets, but that may be a pipe dream here in FL, don't know. If that won't work out, I may try a container home. I just want a place to call my own.

I don't miss the car, don't miss the big house and yard, but I do miss my independence, so I'm going to try to figure out how to get that back. Hope to learn from those who have been there, done that. I know it can be done in 5 years, so that's what I'm shooting for.

[m741]

I'm just wondering how the company screwed you, if you were really all prepared? Were you relying on a pension and they went bankrupt? I don't mean to sound like a dick, I'm just curious how you ended up with all your eggs in one basket.

Do your new plans have less reliance on a single company?

[Angelpie]

I'm just wondering how the company screwed you, if you were really all prepared? Were you relying on a pension and they went bankrupt? I don't mean to sound like a dick, I'm just curious how you ended up with all your eggs in one basket.

Do your new plans have less reliance on a single company?

Yes, they stole our retirement money, then filed bankruptcy and fired us all. I grew up in a time where people stayed with a company for life, and that's what I did. I didn't make a lot of money, was just an executive secretary. I never did make any investments in anything other than my children's education. It just wasn't there to save for anything else. I was a single mom for many years. Every penny I made went into raising my kids and sending them off to college. I'm relying on myself now, no company at all -- just me. I am my company, my own business. If I fail, I have no one to blame but myself.

You don't sound like a dick, just like someone who has been very blessed his whole life or is very young, and doesn't understand my generation or the trials some people go through.

[leeholsen]

sorry to hear about your story, but some companies are run by worthless people.

you got a good site here. i think if you'll read thru others journals, you should be able to figure out some ways to find a way for an independence you can live with in 5 years or maybe less.-+

[ARXII-13]

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that your long standing plan was taken away from you suddenly. I know you said you want your independence, but I don't think anyone here would encourage a lady in her presumably late 50's to live in her car... Would you consider moving in with one of your kids for a couple of years? Or, if you really want to work 12-14 hours a day, I'm sure you can afford to stay in your apartment no matter what kind of job you do.

[UrbanHermit]

I'm not an american so I don't know much about the system, but shouldn't there be social security payments of some form in your future if you are nearing standard retirement age after working a full career?

Have you calculated how much those would be and the earliest they would become available? Following Jacob's posted ERE budget to the letter would provide a reasonable living on even a modest monthly benefit. If you only need to plan to bridge your costs to the point you can first take the benefit, then the amount you need to accumulate is dramatically lower and you can run a lower savings rate, freeing up more income for your current expenses.

[7Wannabe5]

Hi,

I'm semi-old and semi-broke so I can empathize. One thing you might consider is that one market advantage you have over the average 29 year old man is that you have a better chance of bartering domestic skills for free housing/food. There are millions of extra empty bedrooms in houses in this country and it has been my experience that just offering maybe an hour of thoughtful (observing what is really needed/wanted as opposed to being like a robotic cleaning service etc.) household help per day will render you the most appreciated long-term house-guest or tenant-for-barter ever.

Since being frugal generally necessitates doing such things as cooking food from scratch for yourself, cooking dinner from semi-scratch for a time-stressed, low-domestic skilled family of four will take you no more time and effectively render you a much higher hourly wage. There are a million different possible variations on this theme.

I think living in a van might be fun but I don't think it is the cheapest way to go when I reflect that if I ever become so destitute that I end up Day Zero eating at a soup kitchen, unless I put on some kind of disguise and render myself mute, by Day Two maximum I'll likely find myself cooking the soup (sigh.)

[Angelpie]

Firstly, I'm sorry to hear that your long standing plan was taken away from you suddenly. I know you said you want your independence, but I don't think anyone here would encourage a lady in her presumably late 50's to live in her car... Would you consider moving in with one of your kids for a couple of years? Or, if you really want to work 12-14 hours a day, I'm sure you can afford to stay in your apartment no matter what kind of job you do.

How old are you? Not being mean, just asking. There are plenty of people 50 and over living in tents and cars and on the streets now because of exactly what I went through. Wall Street stole our retirements, our homes, our lives really, and nobody cares. We have to do this ourselves. I'm just not going to sit by and be depressed anymore. If my grandmother could live in a 1-room cabin heated only by a pot-bellied wood stove for most of her life, I can certainly survive. Honestly, my generation is much more stalwart and sturdy than the X & Y generations. They are soft, after spending years inside playing video games. Even doctors worry that they will be the most sickly generation of all once they get to retirement. I'm tough. I've been through more than you could ever comprehend. I would never be a burden on my children. I raised them to have lives of their own, not to take care of me.

[Angelpie]

I'm not an american so I don't know much about the system, but shouldn't there be social security payments of some form in your future if you are nearing standard retirement age after working a full career?

Have you calculated how much those would be and the earliest they would become available? Following Jacob's posted ERE budget to the letter would provide a reasonable living on even a modest monthly benefit. If you only need to plan to bridge your costs to the point you can first take the benefit, then the amount you need to accumulate is dramatically lower and you can run a lower savings rate, freeing up more income for your current expenses.

I've applied for disability, which will be more than I would get by waiting for social security. Like I said, I never made much money being just a secretary, so I won't get much, and if our conservative congress has anything to do with it, I will get nothing. It takes sometimes 3 years to get disability in this country, and involves getting an attorney to do so. Until then, I must support myself.

[Angelpie]

Hi,

I'm semi-old and semi-broke so I can empathize. One thing you might consider is that one market advantage you have over the average 29 year old man is that you have a better chance of bartering domestic skills for free housing/food. There are millions of extra empty bedrooms in houses in this country and it has been my experience that just offering maybe an hour of thoughtful (observing what is really needed/wanted as opposed to being like a robotic cleaning service etc.) household help per day will render you the most appreciated long-term house-guest or tenant-for-barter ever.

Since being frugal generally necessitates doing such things as cooking food from scratch for yourself, cooking dinner from semi-scratch for a time-stressed, low-domestic skilled family of four will take you no more time and effectively render you a much higher hourly wage. There are a million different possible variations on this theme.

I think living in a van might be fun but I don't think it is the cheapest way to go when I reflect that if I ever become so destitute that I end up Day Zero eating at a soup kitchen, unless I put on some kind of disguise and render myself mute, by Day Two maximum I'll likely find myself cooking the soup (sigh.)

I've been living with someone else in their house for two years, and I'm going insane. I hate living with anyone. I am an INFJ and a true loner. I have a need to be alone in my own space. I'm one who never suffered empty nest syndrome, because I was so happy when the last one left the roost and I could be alone. I could just never be anyone's maid, not that it is beneath me, but I just couldn't so it. I'd lose my mind.

[GandK]

Are you near any hospitals, or do you have good reliable transportation to one?

In addition to the possibility of selling things like plasma ($50/week or so), many hospitals and med schools will pay you $20-$40 an hour to be a "standardized patient," i.e. a fake patient who claims to have the symptoms of a certain condition, or who undergoes a specific exam/procedure, to see if the medical students who interact with that patient are doing the right things and making the right diagnosis. You may also be able to make money participating in medical studies or clinical trials.

Google each of these things in your area to see which ones are available. You're in an ideal situation for them. Your hours are not tied up with other work, so you can be flexible, and you could easily sit and do your freelance writing in waiting areas, killing two birds with one stone.

Just a thought.

[GandK]

You can also become an eJuror for a little extra cash. All you have to do for this one is give your opinion.

EJury.com

[train_writer]

First of all, it sounds like you had a very unlucky turn of events and I am far too young and unwise/ unexperienced to give any advice.

Just know that your story touched me and that I wish you all the best on your path towards FI/ retirement and I hope you accept help from people you might not expect it from at first (including family members, even if you don't want to ask them).

Do you apply for any state pension soon?

[JohnnyH]

Perhaps posting your expenses would be the best way the forum could help you... Have you exhausted the copious government programs? I'm fairly certain you would qualify for SNAP, section 8 and medical aid, covering your basic needs.
...
Not directed at OP, but retirement benefits not in your direct control (401k) are essentially a joke at this point... The extent to which baby boomers associate a job with security is staggering and frightening to me... My parents get filled with anxiety when I mention retiring. Despite explaining the math that I can live of 1% safe withdrawal. Meanwhile, they are 100% dependent on fixed income and have not a care in the world... How did they get such a deep seeded almost religious respect for structure and authority? Maybe it is a subconscious product of reaching retirement age completely invested in politicians' promises.

[Angelpie]

1) my expenses now are extremely low, because I rent what is basically a room with an unfinished bath, so those won't be my expenses for long, as I have to move out of her in April so she can finish the bathroom and bring her mother home.
2) I get food stamps, but there is no medicaid for adults in Florida unless you are on disability. They are not expanding medicaid under ACA. Section 8 now has a 5-year waiting list due to the "economic downturn" which we all know is really a depression. I'm truly thinking of moving to a blue state, maybe New Mexico. Florida is an anomaly, because not only is it a red state, but they hate poor people and don't want them here at all, so they provide nothing for them. The few programs they do have are so overrun now that it's years on a waiting list to get in. It's a horrible place to live with no money.

We got a respect for structure and authority because we were raised in a time when they meant something good, when companies took care of their employees, and psychopaths weren't running the corporations and the country. The streets were safe, jobs were plentiful, and if you found a job and stayed at it, you could have a good lifestyle and a secure retirement. Then we went and ruined what our fathers built for us with our own greed and selfishness. Not me personally, but the baby boomers are the ones who did this to us, and they don't care. It's all about money and things and prestige and power. It makes me wonder if I really want to live to see how it ends. I have a feeling "1984" is here.

[Angelpie]

Thank you all for trying to help. I actually did well today writing. Made nearly $100. If I could do that every day, I'd be fine.

[theanimal]

We got a respect for structure and authority because we were raised in a time when they meant something good, when companies took care of their employees, and psychopaths weren't running the corporations and the country. The streets were safe, jobs were plentiful, and if you found a job and stayed at it, you could have a good lifestyle and a secure retirement. Then we went and ruined what our fathers built for us with our own greed and selfishness. Not me personally, but the baby boomers are the ones who did this to us, and they don't care. It's all about money and things and prestige and power. It makes me wonder if I really want to live to see how it ends. I have a feeling "1984" is here.

I just have a couple responses to this, don't mean to be offensive in any way.
1. The US crime rate is at it's lowest point since 1963. Crime has dropped significantly in the past 20 years, especially with regards to serious crime (murder, rape, robbery, assault). The streets are safe! Despite what the media would like you to believe.
2. Wasn't the belief that companies would provide a secure retirement a problem itself (Going off M741's post)? People trusted companies based off promises that they could not uphold (Pensions etc.). Therefore, the failed to diversify their holdings and were open up to suffer from economic problems like the Great Recession, while others like Jacob, MMM and others on here either profited or faced little to no setback.

What the company did to you and your fellow employees was wrong. I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

[saving-10-years]

The extent to which baby boomers associate a job with security is staggering and frightening to me...

Glad that you are frightened by this. I think that you should be. I qualify as a 'baby boomer' (currently age 57) so perhaps older than your parents? I am seeing this as a generation label rather than a behaviour attribute and so @Angelpie while agreeing that not everyone behaved the same way or reaped the same level of 'reward' I think we have to accept this label applies to all of 'us' fifty-somethings. The oppportunities were there for us in a way that they now won't be for the X/Y gen. Very different times.

There is a gender dimension about this for baby boomers. In the UK women in my generation were the very last to be able to pay their pension/unemployment contribution as a 'married woman's National Insurance stamp'. Even though this was phased out in 1977, for the obvious reason that you would be putting all your eggs in one basket and divorce was starting to take off, women continued to save pennies on their 'stamp' by planning to draw on their husband's pension later instead of having one of their own. For some its been a costly gamble http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pens ... women.html although at the time no-one would have suggested that it was a gamble.

I can't comment on the US scene but what I see here (UK) is that people my age (mid-to-late 50s) believed the hype. Assuming the guy pays, or the company pays, or the government pays were not unreasonable beliefs at the time. What's puzzling is that people of this generation and younger still believe this. I'm starting to see it as the boiling frog thing (a la Charles Handy) - the times change, and its easier not to jump out of the stockpot into the unknown when the temperature rises as long as the change is only happening by small increments. I work alongside people who believe that their pensions will sufficiently okay in 2, 5, 10 years to still feel pretty safe. They might worry a bit, but they aren't likely to do anything different 'at this stage'.

I feel like I want to run around shouting 'the sky is falling'. I talk to colleagues about what guys on this site are doing (it really is an eye-opener). I'm not sure that they are listening. I suspect that this is because they think that they are 'sorted' (and of course it could be because they think that I am strange). Its not a message that those who have saved in one way for their whole lives really want to hear. If nothing else it suggests that we need to start doing something (active control) to address what we thought was 'sorted'.

Glad that Angelpie's active control seems to be working. Good luck with the writing and realising the moving plans. Its definitely not easy to face later middle-age with this sort of mind-shift. I'm struggling with my own mind shifting and its nothing like as extreme.

[Chad]

I'm sorry about your situation. However, I'm going to be realistic and direct with you.

You aren't going to get out of your depression until you stop blaming everything on others and holding in the hate. Your posts in this thread and others suggest you are placing a lot of the blame outside yourself. If you don't get past this you significantly lower your chances of making it out of this situation.

Also, unless you are truly disabled (which I don't see mentioned), I don't see why you should complain about how long it takes you to illegally or falsely use a program not designed for you. The program is designed for those who are disabled, who do get it very quickly. It's designed for my mother who has uncurable brain cancer, which prevents her from reading more than a few sentences in a 20 minute period, understanding 30% of what people say, from finding the correct words to use, and from functioning at any normal level.

This is not meant to chase you off. You are in a bad situation and this forum can help to a certain extent. So, use it to it's full potential.

Outline your finances in detail. Maybe someone has a good idea for a specific part you haven't thought of yet.

Blow off steam and be critical of the republicans, democrats, or whoever, but understand that they are at best tangentially related to your and other peoples issues. Don't complain and do nothing to help yourself. I'm not suggesting you are, but it is easy to fall in to this trap.

You seem to have some skills at writing and may like it (hard to be 100% sure from what you have written so far), so write. It doesn't always have to be a direct pay job of writing. This is the greatest time in the history of the world to like writing and have skill at it. Write a book about your experiences as non-fiction or use it as a base for a fictional account that has you coming out like JK Rowling in the end. Then publish it to Amazon as an e-book. I would think a ton of people could relate.

There are threads on here about self-publishing and there are tons of good places for info online. One of my favorites is http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/ . Writing is just one option. I'm sure others, along with yourself, can come up with other ideas.

Good luck in whatever path you choose.

[Ego]

Funny, I began writing a response that mirrored Chad's above. He said it better than I would have.

One addition... perspective. You followed the rules and got screwed for it. Rehashing that screwing can become your life's work, if you let it. Look ahead fifteen or twenty years. Do you want to be that person?

While it may not feel like it, your poverty "lifestyle" is among the top 80-90% worldwide.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/2636/ ... -all-the-1

Looking at it that way, you won the citizenship lottery the day you were born. The question is, what are you going to do with it? How can you make this screwing by the system the best thing that ever happened to you?