ERE when married

[landedgentry13]

It doesn't seem fair to hold an individual responsible for another individuals mess simply because they are "married." Why on earth is this allowed? Husband can rack up debt at the casino and the wife is responsible for it? Wife goes overboard shopping and Husband's credit is ruined?
For all intents and purposes, DGF and I live a "married" life. We share a home, share expenses, share everything, really. I can't see us marrying if the government is going to enjoy such control over my personal affairs. No thank you.

[AlexOliver]

The idea of marriage is two individuals becoming "one flesh."

[InterfaceLeader]

I am in control of our finances, as the major wage earner at the moment. We had to get married for legal reasons (two different countries, easiest way to live together was to get married) but he is pretty much on-board with my financial decisions as long as he has some money to spend on his own behalf. We have separate bank accounts, but he gives me money towards bills/rent etc and I make sure they get paid.

[Debbie M]

@murphew, I see “car gas” and “car insurance” but not “car repairs” or “car replacement fund.”
I’m not married but am in a long-term relationship that may lead to marriage. Naturally our expenses are currently quite separate.
He never wants to retire, though he is saving some money in retirement accounts (in case he can’t work someday). I may have trained him to want to work only half time, though! He respects my wish to retire early and gets it that it’s pretty important to me. And he knows that my goal in retiring is not to then have time to do all the housework, etc. We’ve actually talked about him paying me instead of others to do things like iron and starch his shirts. (Isn’t that just creepy? Especially if you’re married? But I’d give him a discount over the dry cleaner, and I’d have totally flexible work I could do at home with the lovely music.)
His frugality is above average, though not at all extreme. My income is lower. I think I’ve talked him into renovating our (small, affordable) house over moving somewhere bigger, if for no other reason than that the location is so great.
We like having each of us investing some of the money because we have differing non-idiotic strategies (I’m the risk-averse one, with all my money in index funds; he’s the knowledgeable one with all of his non-401K money in stocks of well-researched growth companies.) He likes to eat out way too much for my financial pleasure, and he wants me to come with, so he pays. In return, I pay for movies (which I like just as much as he does)—mostly via Netflix.
He sort of would like to make a much larger salary so he could finance my early retirement himself. But he also really likes his current job (pretty good job duties, great co-workers, great commute, decent hours), so that’s not happening, plus I really don’t like being dependent—once I leave this job, I want to be done forever, which means I want all the money saved up ahead of time.
He also wants to start his own business—which scares me. That can lead to bankruptcy which can lead to probably something not that great for a financially independent spouse, eh? I’ve seen the IRS clean out my mom’s savings account—twice—to pay for my dad’s back taxes.

[SkaraBrae]

*Casts Threadomancy!*
I showed him the numbers for both of us together, and of course for just me we'd split it in half. He wants to be FI, but it's not as critical for him as it is for me. (I am one of those people who doesn't handle 40 hours a week very well. For the last two years I've been going up to 60/wk to reach our goals quicker.)
My husband is like Jacob's wife: wants to retire later at higher expense level. I just want to GET OUT as soon as humanly possible. And I'm okay learning lots of ways to make delicious dishes of beans and rice, rice and beans to do so. My husband is, however, totally on-board with LBYM and debt-free living, and has a strong DIY streak. So I have some things in my favour.
Splitting finances would be extremely detrimental to his perception of our relationship, so they will remain joint for now. However, he's said that he doesn't mind if I work or not so long as my income is replaced and, if I'm not working, I contribute around the house. It's a roundabout kind of support that I will probably exploit soon to do some side business and explore passive income streams.
Like KevinM, our housing cost is also too high (28% of net income goes to rent). Getting that down to a reasonable number will be difficult here -- but that's okay because I don't particularly want to stay here for longer than a couple more years. Once our debts are paid off, we'll have 50% of net income free again.

[Matt]

My wife beat me to the punch. We were both working full-time until a couple of months ago. I actually wanted her to keep working so we could accomplish our goals faster, but it wasn't happening. I was getting into hard-core saving mode, and initially I was disappointed, but I'm okay with it now. My one condition is that we budget a certain amount of money per month and then stick to that amount. She was raised to be frugal and doesn't need many "things", so it hasn't been a big problem. I don't think it's going to delay my exit from the workforce that badly.

[anomie]

Spouse / Significant Other / DW DH and ERE

I feel like this is a really important topic; I have struggled with this a lot in sorting out my personal interest with ERE type principles with those of my DW. My struggle was mainly due to the fact that DW and I share a joint account that includes everything, including her business expenses.

My Situation

My DW of 17 years and I split expenses; we have roughly similar incomes.

She maintains a slightly more middle class lifestyle - gym membership, shops for local/veggie/organic food, some bike clothes and accessories. In general our expenses and lifestyle choices are similar: we agreed to go down to one vehicle, she is happy in a pretty small home ( a 2BR, 1 bath that when we moved in people told us it was better suited for 1 person); she is happy with her lifestyle. She likes to travel--but that is mostly funded through her work and doesn't cost us much.

There is room for us to trim our expenses, but here is the rub - we have worked out an arrangement where I 'retire' in 2-3 years (I will be 48), while she works for another 10 years in her career before moving part-time (will be 53). We should be FI at that point. We are now saving around 80% of our income. We are debt free and have a very sound financial plan, imo.

Over the years, we have grown closer in philosophy and lifestyle, as we each learned to compromise. Over time, we have come to agreements where we can each have what we want out of life. I have experimented in the past with environmental/sustainable living for a year (around age 31), and with taking a 'sabbatical' from work for a year (around age 41). These and other experiences provided us practice in budgeting and helped shape our personal and financial expectations for the future.


Questions

For those of you with a long-term SO, how do you manage your finances? You could answer this question directly in this thread:
Spousal Subsidies
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1295&start=0

What strategies do you employ to bring your SO around to the ideas of ERE, without alienating them or making them tired of hearing about ERE?

Do you share the same lifestyle philosphy? Where different, how do you negotiate those differences?


Related Threads

Immense frustration with SO's attitude toward money
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3307

Spousal Subsidies
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1295&start=0

ERE when married
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=57

(Moderators: was going to start a new thread, but found this one. thank you for linking to relevant threads, or starting new one as you see fit, etc. )

[workathome]

DW is SAHM so priority for ERE is no liabilities + minimal expenses + productive assets for emergency. ERE is one of the few strategies that accommodates a "traditional" marriage and makes it possible in this day and age (aside of paying for a huge life insurance plan).

[dalralmi]

Speaking from a recent marriage (1 month) this is how we have been discussing things. Before our marriage I was the primary bread winner and had already bought a house and built up an emergency fund while funding my 401k. My husband is doing the same things however my original plan in life was always to save enough money to "retire" early to be a stay at home mom.

Since pre-marriage I have solely taken care of the housing and most of our After 60 retirement income my husband will be taking care of the bills after I retire. He loves his particular job, and though some might not see it as early retirement I still plan on budgeting the income we do have to make sure he can retire earlier as well. Our income will be significantly less than the average american needs to survive, but it will also make our lives significantly more of our own. He is a teacher and will have plenty of time off throughout the year and can pursue other interests.

I plan to retire in three years when I fully pay off our mortgage and we both have absolutely no debt. If My goals weren't to fund the 401k for our after 60 retirement I'd be funding a vangard account. Since he would plan to work whether we could retire or not the extra income will be going towards other interests that would be more expensive and our pre 60 retirement fund.

Overall I feel that between the husband and I (with him still working after I "retire") we would have contributed equally to our FI I just preloaded my share.

[KisKis]

We pool all our finances so by definition we will both become financially independent at the same moment.

Same here. Not judging anyone else (I mean it!), but I personally could never love or marry someone who did not have the same financial values as me. I think it would be impossible for differences to not sour my relationship, even if finances were kept separate. Spending money comes into play on so many other crucial issues, like entertainment and going out together, parenting, lifestyle, etc. Not to mention that there are multiple philosophies when splitting money to begin with, like going 50/50 or trying to apply percentages based on usage or income. Again, this is just for me, because I know my own personality. I realize that others can make it work.

DH and I both are in agreement about early retirement, even though we have different target ages. It guides a lot of our behavior. Oh, also, we both work and have fairly equal incomes.

[Seneca]

Questions

For those of you with a long-term SO, how do you manage your finances? You could answer this question directly in this thread:
Spousal Subsidies
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1295&start=0

DW and I lived together for 6 years before getting married. We ran all finances separate with subsidy going from me to her while she was working part time and getting her professional degree.

After marriage we pooled everything, my debt was hers, hers was mine. Same with income, which is now nearly equal for both. One checking account, all checks go direct. All financial plans are "we", not you or me. No debt but mortgage now, but she brought hugely more in to the marriage due to school loans and I treated it as if it was my own mortal enemy alongside her, in fact I always called any debt "ours".

For us, this works much better as we align priorities and goals with our finances which leads to far better harmony. Now with a child, I cannot imagine trying to do it separate.

What strategies do you employ to bring your SO around to the ideas of ERE, without alienating them or making them tired of hearing about ERE?

Sell the dream of freedom. The real kind.

[lilacorchid]

^^I sold the dream to my SO. He's pretty on board now, but still thinks it isn't possible. I tell him he is setting up a self fulfilling prophecy and to start believing it!

Our money is pooled together and we are mostly on the same page. He likes to eat out more than I do. But he give me his cheques and I do what I can. I think I'm going to make up a spreadsheet to show what happens if we fund one person's retirment before the other. (I'm #1! Ha!)

[Tyler9000]

My DW and I have pretty much always been on the same page financially. Perhaps graduating at the same time with the same degree and earning similar salaries over the years made that easier than for most. We don't have kids, so never had to deal with the decision to have one of us stay home to raise them. We're equally frugal, perhaps her even moreso than me. And we're both actively striving towards ERE together.

So while I acknowledge that we may be a special case, for us ERE is a team exercise. If one of us does pull the trigger before the other, we're likely talking about a delta measured in months, not years. Speaking personally, I can't imagine doing it any differently. Being on the same page and sharing the same goal is tremendously helpful, not only financially but also emotionally.

[Riggerjack]

When my wife and I first married, the deal was that bills would be split proportionately, based on takehome pay. At the time, she made 40% of what I made.
That way, she could contribute, but feel free to spend her money as she wanted. The last thing I wanted was contention over money. As she was making more, and now equal money, we don't worry about that much at all. The plan is for us to retire the same day. Her at 45, me at 52. I don't see any way for one to retire earlier and still have things going as well as they do now.
But then, she's the eager to retire one, and I like my job. I'd like it more as an exjob though.
for us, being married is a team sport. You do what you. need to do for the best results for the team.

[Tyler9000]

I like my job. I'd like it more as an exjob though.

Ha. I'm totally going to steal that line.

[GandK]

Sell the dream of freedom. The real kind.

Agreed! I drank the Kool-aid. It is tasty.

[train_writer]

My spouse is totally on board, in fact, he is less a work a holic than I am and much more frugal by nature.

He is working towards the goal of working maximum 3 days a week by choice or rather 4d/pw seasonally and not working in winter/ having time for other projects. He isn't good with numbers and not interested in money, so he requested me to research into bringing down our monthly expenses/ mortgage/ invest a small part wisely.

But, of course, you always are different so I strongly agree with keeping your finances well organized and keep it partly personal! We also have a 'prenup' saying that individual loans/ debts can never become the other's responsibility (except for the mortgage).