Whoa, this thread had a timely bump. I was just going to start a new thread when a search on "cars" brought me back here.
I do still have the 2010 Honda Civic Hybrid which I bought new for $25k, however, I've finally convinced myself to sell it almost out of spite as I'm tired of the way it bleeds money out of me (depreciation and loan payments together cost me $6k last year). I have found a buyer who will pay 13,500. (Well below private seller blue book for the car's condition, but I'm deliberately cutting this person a deal.) My remaining car loan is just under 7000. The transaction will save me 262 in car payments for the next two and a half years, lower my insurance payments by 2-300 per year, and net me about 6500.
However, some of that 6500 needs to go toward buying a less expensive replacement car. Which brings me to my next question...
Can anyone recommend some models and/or provide some general advice for picking up an older, reliable used car in the <$6000 range? The sweet spot would really be between 3-5000 so I get to keep a chunk of cash out of the transaction, without having to buy a true beater. I'm not a car guy, and have no desire to become one, so I will be paying out of pocket for most maintenance/repair--so reliability is crucial. Decent gas mileage is also a factor.
Otherwise, I have no specific needs (e.g. towing, capacity, etc) other than hauling my own ass around.
I happen to know a Honda mechanic who does some maintenance at a discount, and given the reliability of that brand, I've been thinking about older (circa 1996-2001) Honda sedans of the Civic or Accord variety. These seem to go for about 5k on a dealer lot. Other alternatives include comparable models from Toyota or Hyundai.
Any other thoughts?
Should I trade down my car?
I wouldn't buy a Hyundai of those years.
Especially if you have a hook up on Honda repair work, it's pretty hard to beat a 90's Accord for cost of ownership.
Toyota lavished a lot of attention on Lexus cars back then, and they are built incredibly well. They are really cheap now because your typical luxury car buyer would not be caught dead in something so old. These are worth a look.
Especially if you have a hook up on Honda repair work, it's pretty hard to beat a 90's Accord for cost of ownership.
Toyota lavished a lot of attention on Lexus cars back then, and they are built incredibly well. They are really cheap now because your typical luxury car buyer would not be caught dead in something so old. These are worth a look.
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wheatstate
- Posts: 98
- Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:51 am
C40 @ I like your analysis of %paid and %used.
What makes this car unusual is 50% has been paid but only 20% has been used. IMHO, this subsidizes the next 8+ years of ownership making them inexpensive and low risk. SW, you have done a great job dropping your annual mileage, which saved a lot.
Did the annual $6k cost of the civic include the principle portion of the mortgage? Some would say the car cost you less, because the mortgage is significantly paid down.
Car ownership = Depreciation + Gas cost + Maintenance
Option 1:
Family-Friend-Craigslist Deal
Late 1990’s import for $3500 with 100-150K miles
Annual Depreciation: $500
Maintenance: $500
Gas cost: $1040 = 6500 miles @ 25 mpg @ $4/gallon
Have your mechanic friend confirm that you could operate a potential vehicle this way.
This is one visit to the mechanic per year. $500 tires…$300 brakes….Battery…. one timing belt…
Option 2:
Dealer Car @ $5-8K
Annual Depreciation: $750
Maintenance: $750
Gas cost: $1040 = 6500 miles @ 25 mpg @ $4/gallon
These cars are paying a dealer’s salary and lot rent.
There is not an extra $2K in this situation to pay a dealer.
This is option 1 with greater expenses. If the expenses get to this level, it seems break-even cost wise with the civic in 5 years.
Option 3:
2010 Honda Civic Hybrid w/30k miles for $13.5K
+ Good for the next 10-15 years
Annual Deprecation: $1000 (avg over next 8 years)
Annual Gas cost: $650 = 6500 miles @ 40 mpg @ $4/gallon
Annual Maintenance cost: low
Other recommended cars:
Mr. Money Mustache Cars
An interesting bit about buying a $3800 Lexus ES300 (Same as Toyota Camry) and annual expenses/repairs.
$3800 Lexus ES300
Thanks for updating us on the situation, and good luck
What makes this car unusual is 50% has been paid but only 20% has been used. IMHO, this subsidizes the next 8+ years of ownership making them inexpensive and low risk. SW, you have done a great job dropping your annual mileage, which saved a lot.
Did the annual $6k cost of the civic include the principle portion of the mortgage? Some would say the car cost you less, because the mortgage is significantly paid down.
Car ownership = Depreciation + Gas cost + Maintenance
Option 1:
Family-Friend-Craigslist Deal
Late 1990’s import for $3500 with 100-150K miles
Annual Depreciation: $500
Maintenance: $500
Gas cost: $1040 = 6500 miles @ 25 mpg @ $4/gallon
Have your mechanic friend confirm that you could operate a potential vehicle this way.
This is one visit to the mechanic per year. $500 tires…$300 brakes….Battery…. one timing belt…
Option 2:
Dealer Car @ $5-8K
Annual Depreciation: $750
Maintenance: $750
Gas cost: $1040 = 6500 miles @ 25 mpg @ $4/gallon
These cars are paying a dealer’s salary and lot rent.
There is not an extra $2K in this situation to pay a dealer.
This is option 1 with greater expenses. If the expenses get to this level, it seems break-even cost wise with the civic in 5 years.
Option 3:
2010 Honda Civic Hybrid w/30k miles for $13.5K
+ Good for the next 10-15 years
Annual Deprecation: $1000 (avg over next 8 years)
Annual Gas cost: $650 = 6500 miles @ 40 mpg @ $4/gallon
Annual Maintenance cost: low
Other recommended cars:
Mr. Money Mustache Cars
An interesting bit about buying a $3800 Lexus ES300 (Same as Toyota Camry) and annual expenses/repairs.
$3800 Lexus ES300
Thanks for updating us on the situation, and good luck
@Spartan_Warrior
Pay cash. If you're feeling lucky, cars with rebuilt salvage titles usually sell for a couple thousand less than regular title cars. Try and learn about the person you're buying the car from. The car's mechanical history is important, but so is the driving style of the previous owner. Craigslist will get you the best deals. Autotrader will give you the best selection. Ebay will give you the best classic and rebuilt vehicles.
As far as car selection goes - the most important thing is that whatever you buy you maintain it, never give up on it, and never let it go simply because there's a hotter model on the car lot now. For most people, depreciation is a very big expense of owning a vehicle because every couple of years or so they drive by a car lot and go 'oooo...shiny'.
My strategy is to buy two or three old cars that are good on gas, dirt cheap to purchase, and have mechanically interchangeable parts. The metro was an awesome car for doing this with, but they are getting harder to find nowadays. Also they tend to rust out where I live with all the salt and whatnot...Makes me sad.
Of course, I do my own car maintenance. If I were paying someone else to maintain/repair the cars I would probably pay a little extra and buy a newer honda or toyota. Repair bills can quickly rack up on an older vehicle if you're paying someone else to do the repairs. Something to keep in mind.
Pay cash. If you're feeling lucky, cars with rebuilt salvage titles usually sell for a couple thousand less than regular title cars. Try and learn about the person you're buying the car from. The car's mechanical history is important, but so is the driving style of the previous owner. Craigslist will get you the best deals. Autotrader will give you the best selection. Ebay will give you the best classic and rebuilt vehicles.
As far as car selection goes - the most important thing is that whatever you buy you maintain it, never give up on it, and never let it go simply because there's a hotter model on the car lot now. For most people, depreciation is a very big expense of owning a vehicle because every couple of years or so they drive by a car lot and go 'oooo...shiny'.
My strategy is to buy two or three old cars that are good on gas, dirt cheap to purchase, and have mechanically interchangeable parts. The metro was an awesome car for doing this with, but they are getting harder to find nowadays. Also they tend to rust out where I live with all the salt and whatnot...Makes me sad.
Of course, I do my own car maintenance. If I were paying someone else to maintain/repair the cars I would probably pay a little extra and buy a newer honda or toyota. Repair bills can quickly rack up on an older vehicle if you're paying someone else to do the repairs. Something to keep in mind.
That's a good article by MMM.
Lexus is Toyota?... I did not know this.
Toy engines are fantastic... BUT, I've been around long enough to see every variety of luxury feature fail.
Now I look at power windows with a mixture of fear and trepidation. I could not count on my hands how many times I've helped people with malfunctioning power windows and locks.
My car has neither, I call my car my "go box" -It's a $1.5k cubicle + hunk of materials that performs the functions I require, with as few failures as possible. I am not put out by rolling down windows or unlocking doors.
Lexus is Toyota?... I did not know this.
Toy engines are fantastic... BUT, I've been around long enough to see every variety of luxury feature fail.
Now I look at power windows with a mixture of fear and trepidation. I could not count on my hands how many times I've helped people with malfunctioning power windows and locks.
My car has neither, I call my car my "go box" -It's a $1.5k cubicle + hunk of materials that performs the functions I require, with as few failures as possible. I am not put out by rolling down windows or unlocking doors.
See also this wiki page for general principles:
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... le=Driving
If you are uninterested in maintenance then the "lifer" alternative is best. +1 to MMM's recommendations in that case.
My general car-buying advice is
1) reconsider whether you actually need a car
2) buy for what you do everyday; rent for what you do every year
3) figure out which 4-cylinder (non-turbo) Honda/Acura best meets your needs
4) if no 4 cyl. Honda suffices, expand your search, but gather plenty of evidence (statistical, not anecdotal!) about reliability and ownership costs
In your price range I would look for used Honda Civic. I'm also a fan of the rare Accord wagon from the early 90s.
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wiki/ ... le=Driving
If you are uninterested in maintenance then the "lifer" alternative is best. +1 to MMM's recommendations in that case.
My general car-buying advice is
1) reconsider whether you actually need a car
2) buy for what you do everyday; rent for what you do every year
3) figure out which 4-cylinder (non-turbo) Honda/Acura best meets your needs
4) if no 4 cyl. Honda suffices, expand your search, but gather plenty of evidence (statistical, not anecdotal!) about reliability and ownership costs
In your price range I would look for used Honda Civic. I'm also a fan of the rare Accord wagon from the early 90s.
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Spartan_Warrior
- Posts: 1659
- Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:24 am
FWIW: I ended up picking up a 1998 Infiniti I30. It's not exactly what I wanted, as the gas mileage is not great and, as a luxury model, replacement part prices will run higher, but I knew the owner and the car's history, my mechanic friend is familiar with it, and it was only $3k; so if it irritates me or breaks down I can replace it in a couple years and my annual transportation costs will still be lower than if I had kept the 2010 Honda.
My only debt now is my mortgage. And with the money left over from the car transaction, I'll be paying for closing costs on refinancing that mortgage to a 15 year @ 3.0%, saving me about 20k in interest over the next ten years. These two moves have effectively taken a full year off my ERE timeframe.
My only debt now is my mortgage. And with the money left over from the car transaction, I'll be paying for closing costs on refinancing that mortgage to a 15 year @ 3.0%, saving me about 20k in interest over the next ten years. These two moves have effectively taken a full year off my ERE timeframe.
+1 to KevinW about the first step being to reconsider whether you really need a car.
@Spartan_Warrior
thanks a lot for following up and letting us know what you did, and congrats on [projectedly] getting a year closer to ERE.
BTW, I don't know your credit situation etc., but with good credit and documented income you can get a no-cash-out 15-year mortgage @ 3.0% with no closing costs right now (or a lower rate with closing costs). I recommend shopping around or let me know if you want specific businesses/people. You would still have to pay for appraisal though.
@Spartan_Warrior
thanks a lot for following up and letting us know what you did, and congrats on [projectedly] getting a year closer to ERE.
BTW, I don't know your credit situation etc., but with good credit and documented income you can get a no-cash-out 15-year mortgage @ 3.0% with no closing costs right now (or a lower rate with closing costs). I recommend shopping around or let me know if you want specific businesses/people. You would still have to pay for appraisal though.