In the US there are thrift stores all over the place. People are getting rid of so much stuff that during peak hours (weekends), Goodwill stores will have 5 or so employees working all day to received and sort donations. Every town with 5,000 people will have at least one thrift store - in the midwest at least. Thrift stores don't commonly have computers you'd run Photoshop on, but we there are a ton on Craigslist.
Romney: zero capital gains tax for middle class
-
Christopherjart
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:03 am
- Contact:
People treat their stuff like money here and since about half the population doesn't have a single bank account, there are many pawn shops. I wonder if computer prices are good at those. Unfortunately financial education is very poor. Interest rates are extremely high at those places probably as high or higher than a credit card.
Many people also participate in what we call "tandas". I don't know if they exist there. A tanda is where a group of people give money to the organizer and a different person gets the money each week. It seems very high risk to me, but they're popular with the very poor. yes, I know a few people who participate in them.
Many people also participate in what we call "tandas". I don't know if they exist there. A tanda is where a group of people give money to the organizer and a different person gets the money each week. It seems very high risk to me, but they're popular with the very poor. yes, I know a few people who participate in them.
In the US people participate in "tandas" on such a large scale that their chance of ever being the person who gets the money is infinitely small. It's called Powerball. It's a Tanda times 10 million!
(Powerball is a lottery where your chance of winning is something like 1 in 2 billion per $1 ticket. The prize keeps growing until someone wins - they get up into the hundreds of millions at times)
(Powerball is a lottery where your chance of winning is something like 1 in 2 billion per $1 ticket. The prize keeps growing until someone wins - they get up into the hundreds of millions at times)
-
Christopherjart
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:03 am
- Contact:
-
secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
"Values that now include arrogance, greed, violence, conformity, bread and circuses."
I'm sorry--I'm staying out of this debate for the most part but I just had to point out the absurdity of this comment. Do you really think people were so angelic during the Roman Empire or in the 14th century or the 19th century? Were people really less arrogant, greedy, violent, conformist, and susceptible to bread and circuses (a term that comes from a period long, long ago, btw) in the past?
It's just ridiculous to go on and on about kids these days at a time when the free flow of information has made people more intelligent and more sensitive than they have ever been in human history.
I'm sorry--I'm staying out of this debate for the most part but I just had to point out the absurdity of this comment. Do you really think people were so angelic during the Roman Empire or in the 14th century or the 19th century? Were people really less arrogant, greedy, violent, conformist, and susceptible to bread and circuses (a term that comes from a period long, long ago, btw) in the past?
It's just ridiculous to go on and on about kids these days at a time when the free flow of information has made people more intelligent and more sensitive than they have ever been in human history.
The lady who cleans my office told me about a tanda. She was waiting to move to Tijuana until the tanda finished but in the end she lost anyway.
Every two weeks each person would contribute 200 pesos and one person would get all the money. When each person had been a receiver one time the cycle is finished (it's forced savings, nothing more). I think two participants quit the company after they got their share so the whole thing fell apart.
Every two weeks each person would contribute 200 pesos and one person would get all the money. When each person had been a receiver one time the cycle is finished (it's forced savings, nothing more). I think two participants quit the company after they got their share so the whole thing fell apart.
-
Christopherjart
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:03 am
- Contact:
@Secretwealth: No, actually that's kind of my point. We already know what happened to the Roman Empire, except unlike the western world today the romans didn't exactly go bankrupt. The fall of Rome wasn't pretty, either. Civil unrest, foreign invasions, poverty and fascism with high taxes and forced deflation of the currency. You could also look at pre-nazi germany, where they had a little hyperinflation problem (coming soon to a country near you) and then things got oh so much better after hitler promised to fix everything..
Also, I don't know what "intelligence" or "sensitivity" you're referring to. The "intelligence" of my generation amounts to "Change your facebook profile pic to a cartoon character to raise awareness of child molesters!". "Sensitivity" seems more like cultural and moral relativism, with the goal of never saying or doing anything that will offend anyone or make any claim to validity (everyone's entitled to their opinion, or something). Most people seemed to be more than happy to go to war in the middle east, although there was no real reason to do so besides "revenge", and at least in the US people seem to be vaguely aware of what a "banana republic" is, but either passively or willfully ignorant of the fact that the US government is directly responsible for creating those banana republics and enslaving the entires populations of those countries to Dole and Chiquita.
Sure, the internet is great. You can find all sorts of information fairly easily and learn things that would have been practically impossible for the average person just two or three decades ago. And, you can also spend all day posting phone pics to facebook about all the stupid infantile crap you're doing throughout the day. "Hay look we went out to eat at the mall and then because we're super awesome we decided to flush a porcupine down the toilet!", and of course my favorite "Hey look at my baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabyyyyyyyyyyyy because I'm hotter than you and got married first and get to retire to the couch and do nothing for the rest of my life! And my baaabyy is sooooooo cuuttee!111"
Also, not to be on topic or anything, but Romney also said he wants to eliminate Obamacare, which he voted for.. I think it'd be great if they got rid of capital gains, interest and dividend taxes altogether, but the chance of any of the lying hypocrites in washington ever doing anything that responsible is roughly zero. Fun to think about, though.
Also, I don't know what "intelligence" or "sensitivity" you're referring to. The "intelligence" of my generation amounts to "Change your facebook profile pic to a cartoon character to raise awareness of child molesters!". "Sensitivity" seems more like cultural and moral relativism, with the goal of never saying or doing anything that will offend anyone or make any claim to validity (everyone's entitled to their opinion, or something). Most people seemed to be more than happy to go to war in the middle east, although there was no real reason to do so besides "revenge", and at least in the US people seem to be vaguely aware of what a "banana republic" is, but either passively or willfully ignorant of the fact that the US government is directly responsible for creating those banana republics and enslaving the entires populations of those countries to Dole and Chiquita.
Sure, the internet is great. You can find all sorts of information fairly easily and learn things that would have been practically impossible for the average person just two or three decades ago. And, you can also spend all day posting phone pics to facebook about all the stupid infantile crap you're doing throughout the day. "Hay look we went out to eat at the mall and then because we're super awesome we decided to flush a porcupine down the toilet!", and of course my favorite "Hey look at my baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabyyyyyyyyyyyy because I'm hotter than you and got married first and get to retire to the couch and do nothing for the rest of my life! And my baaabyy is sooooooo cuuttee!111"
Also, not to be on topic or anything, but Romney also said he wants to eliminate Obamacare, which he voted for.. I think it'd be great if they got rid of capital gains, interest and dividend taxes altogether, but the chance of any of the lying hypocrites in washington ever doing anything that responsible is roughly zero. Fun to think about, though.
@Haplo: Hyperinflation basically means you are completely bankrupt, no?... It took the Romans 400 years but their currency ended up worthless and they basically ended up begging in the streets for taxes to run the crumbling empire (no transaction without tax collector present).
Also, sadly, I think you're more correct than secretwealth. Generally we are less worthy than our ancestors.
Both Romney and Obama have proven that their promises mean exactly nothing. Sad that people still vote the party line and pretend otherwise.
Also, sadly, I think you're more correct than secretwealth. Generally we are less worthy than our ancestors.
Both Romney and Obama have proven that their promises mean exactly nothing. Sad that people still vote the party line and pretend otherwise.
Hyperinflation is what happens when a government prints money and that money has nowhere to go. IE there isn't enough local productivity to balance out the influx nor foreign buyers to soak it up. The only reason the US gov't can get away with 6% inflation per year is because we force the rest of the world to use USD to buy oil, via military force and threats. Actually the way things are makes it much, much worse since as of now most US inflation goes overseas and drives up prices in foreign countries (such as Panama). Eventually all of those people are going to throw those dollars back in our faces, and prices will suddenly skyrocket out of the blue, even if the gov't stopped printing.
It's taken the US a long time to get where we are now. Things really started going downhill after Lincoln started the civil war and killed half the male population, but it took around 100 years after that to sneak in income taxes, the federal reserve (the third central bank the US has had) public schools and the open corruption and fascism that passes for government these days. With rome the tax collectors came before the end of the empire. Really when Diocletian took over Rome was a wreck from I think around 200 years of civil war and military dictatorships. Diocletian was much more of a military dictator than he was anything like the old caesars, and during the reigns of Diocletian and Constantine they instituted the most bloated government bureauocracy that the empire had ever seen, with about 10% of the entire population being enlisted as tax collectors.
I don't think we're particularly more or less worthy than previous generations, just that we're living in a spiritually retarded rotting culture which is making its final circles around the toilet bowl. Empires fall and countries go bankrupt all the time, mostly for the same reasons, and it always ends in civil riots, looting, and as with Russia and Argentina long runs of gangster governments. I like the idea of a charter city or some solution where we can voluntarily protect ourselves from other people's stupidity. We do what we want, they do what they want, and when everyone else's irresponsibility blows up in their faces then that's their problem, we'll be covered. Solutions that require politics are generally bad solutions IMHO, just as most of today's problems are of political origin.
It's taken the US a long time to get where we are now. Things really started going downhill after Lincoln started the civil war and killed half the male population, but it took around 100 years after that to sneak in income taxes, the federal reserve (the third central bank the US has had) public schools and the open corruption and fascism that passes for government these days. With rome the tax collectors came before the end of the empire. Really when Diocletian took over Rome was a wreck from I think around 200 years of civil war and military dictatorships. Diocletian was much more of a military dictator than he was anything like the old caesars, and during the reigns of Diocletian and Constantine they instituted the most bloated government bureauocracy that the empire had ever seen, with about 10% of the entire population being enlisted as tax collectors.
I don't think we're particularly more or less worthy than previous generations, just that we're living in a spiritually retarded rotting culture which is making its final circles around the toilet bowl. Empires fall and countries go bankrupt all the time, mostly for the same reasons, and it always ends in civil riots, looting, and as with Russia and Argentina long runs of gangster governments. I like the idea of a charter city or some solution where we can voluntarily protect ourselves from other people's stupidity. We do what we want, they do what they want, and when everyone else's irresponsibility blows up in their faces then that's their problem, we'll be covered. Solutions that require politics are generally bad solutions IMHO, just as most of today's problems are of political origin.
-
secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
"Most people seemed to be more than happy to go to war in the middle east"
Most of those people were baby boomers and that happened in 2001-2002, when the same people you're bitching about were prepubescent. If you'll remember, Xers and Yers were opposed to the Iraq war (some even against fighting in Afghanistan), and Iraq is pretty much universally recognized as a mistake and a failure. Millennials were children when this happened, but I'm sure none of them fancy a conflict in Iran.
Now, on the topic of cultural and moral relativism--again, I disagree. Yes, all different opinions are respected but it was the boomers who spearheaded the "everyone's entitled to their own facts" nonsense which is mocked by Millennials for whom Colbert's idea of "truthiness" is an already concluded refutation of the relativism of the 90's. The fact that "relativism" is often used as a bad word (this wasn't the case in the 90's, when boomers were praising it) sort of proves my point.
I don't know why I wind up defending Millennials so much on this forum, but I fear they are criticized a bit too much for being hipsters, shallow, etc. when they are actually quite friendly, hard working, and honest when compared to the cynical and survivalist Xers or the solipsistic and destructive Me-generation. Just because a couple of people annoy you on Facebook doesn't mean the world is going to hell.
Most of those people were baby boomers and that happened in 2001-2002, when the same people you're bitching about were prepubescent. If you'll remember, Xers and Yers were opposed to the Iraq war (some even against fighting in Afghanistan), and Iraq is pretty much universally recognized as a mistake and a failure. Millennials were children when this happened, but I'm sure none of them fancy a conflict in Iran.
Now, on the topic of cultural and moral relativism--again, I disagree. Yes, all different opinions are respected but it was the boomers who spearheaded the "everyone's entitled to their own facts" nonsense which is mocked by Millennials for whom Colbert's idea of "truthiness" is an already concluded refutation of the relativism of the 90's. The fact that "relativism" is often used as a bad word (this wasn't the case in the 90's, when boomers were praising it) sort of proves my point.
I don't know why I wind up defending Millennials so much on this forum, but I fear they are criticized a bit too much for being hipsters, shallow, etc. when they are actually quite friendly, hard working, and honest when compared to the cynical and survivalist Xers or the solipsistic and destructive Me-generation. Just because a couple of people annoy you on Facebook doesn't mean the world is going to hell.
-
secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
@JohnnyH "Generally we are less worthy than our ancestors."
Oh really? What is it you miss: dying of infection, slavery, no rule of law, public executions, or mass genocide? Who exactly are the ancestors you worship so much--Jefferson with his slaves, maybe? Newton and his superstition? Aristotle and his misogyny? Plato and his pedophilia?
I, for one, am everyday grateful that I live when I do.
Oh really? What is it you miss: dying of infection, slavery, no rule of law, public executions, or mass genocide? Who exactly are the ancestors you worship so much--Jefferson with his slaves, maybe? Newton and his superstition? Aristotle and his misogyny? Plato and his pedophilia?
I, for one, am everyday grateful that I live when I do.
"If you'll remember, Xers and Yers were opposed to the Iraq war (some even against fighting in Afghanistan)"
Not the ones where I live, but opinions varied. People were still both happy and proud to be bombing the people supposedly responsible for 9/11. All I ever heard the whole time was "George W is the best president of all time!".
"and Iraq is pretty much universally recognized as a mistake and a failure."
Universally by whom? Most people have either forgotten because their attention spans are too short, or still think Mr. Bush was the greatest ever for bombing those ugly heathens.
While I like baby boomers about as much as I like cancer, I can't agree with your assessment that everything is their fault somehow. The US government instituted the Fed and income tax back in 1912 over a christmas session of congress that lasted a whole 45 minutes, and there were no riots in the streets; our ancestors sold us out long before the boomers came around and did their damage. The boomers were simply the first of the "do nothing mom" generation brought on by vacuum cleaners, washing machines, and public schools to keep kids out of parent's hair for 8 hours a day.
I don't think I ever said that Xers, Yers, or millenials weren't friendly. They're just shallow mindless consumers who live in their cellphone world and tend to treat people like they do everything else- something to manipulate or throw away if you don't like it. Bragging and "keeping up appearances" are the center of their lives, and in that regard I see little or no difference between them and the boomers, except perhaps that modern technology allows them to create more garbage than ever before. Their "friendly" does seem rather fake to me though, as they're always looking for some excuse to talk s**t about someone, and yet they almost never have any real interests of their own.
Not the ones where I live, but opinions varied. People were still both happy and proud to be bombing the people supposedly responsible for 9/11. All I ever heard the whole time was "George W is the best president of all time!".
"and Iraq is pretty much universally recognized as a mistake and a failure."
Universally by whom? Most people have either forgotten because their attention spans are too short, or still think Mr. Bush was the greatest ever for bombing those ugly heathens.
While I like baby boomers about as much as I like cancer, I can't agree with your assessment that everything is their fault somehow. The US government instituted the Fed and income tax back in 1912 over a christmas session of congress that lasted a whole 45 minutes, and there were no riots in the streets; our ancestors sold us out long before the boomers came around and did their damage. The boomers were simply the first of the "do nothing mom" generation brought on by vacuum cleaners, washing machines, and public schools to keep kids out of parent's hair for 8 hours a day.
I don't think I ever said that Xers, Yers, or millenials weren't friendly. They're just shallow mindless consumers who live in their cellphone world and tend to treat people like they do everything else- something to manipulate or throw away if you don't like it. Bragging and "keeping up appearances" are the center of their lives, and in that regard I see little or no difference between them and the boomers, except perhaps that modern technology allows them to create more garbage than ever before. Their "friendly" does seem rather fake to me though, as they're always looking for some excuse to talk s**t about someone, and yet they almost never have any real interests of their own.
@secretwealth: First, is morality absolute or culturally defined?... If you say culturally, then your criticisms of those historical greats are hypocritical.
Second, I'm not talking ancient historical celebrities, I'm talking recent ancestors. Look at the American Indians or western American settlers 150 years ago. Now look at their offspring... All covered in Jacob's book (sections 2-3). People used to be much more well rounded; knowledgeable, versatile, strong, capable, clever. Now we have the modern specialized worker/consumer who is contemptible in many ways.
That said, I agree with you. It's quite great being alive now with all this freely available information and technology.
Second, I'm not talking ancient historical celebrities, I'm talking recent ancestors. Look at the American Indians or western American settlers 150 years ago. Now look at their offspring... All covered in Jacob's book (sections 2-3). People used to be much more well rounded; knowledgeable, versatile, strong, capable, clever. Now we have the modern specialized worker/consumer who is contemptible in many ways.
That said, I agree with you. It's quite great being alive now with all this freely available information and technology.
-
secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
I do think morality is absolute on some topics. Killing is bad. Fucking kids is bad. Superstition is bad.
You do have a point that specialization is making people contemptible. I just spent a weekend with a very prestigious professor who doesn't know the first thing about investing or fixing a car, but knows just about everything you'd ever want to know about his very hyperspecialized field. One of the more shocking moments was when we walked past one of those boxes that have free newspapers in them, and he couldn't figure out how to open the thing.
I do take your point about specialization making people less adaptable, but I think that's a post-industrial thing and the Internet may actually curb that. The serial mini-careers of Millennials should make them have a broader knowledge base than the boomers who work 50 years in one career.
You do have a point that specialization is making people contemptible. I just spent a weekend with a very prestigious professor who doesn't know the first thing about investing or fixing a car, but knows just about everything you'd ever want to know about his very hyperspecialized field. One of the more shocking moments was when we walked past one of those boxes that have free newspapers in them, and he couldn't figure out how to open the thing.
I do take your point about specialization making people less adaptable, but I think that's a post-industrial thing and the Internet may actually curb that. The serial mini-careers of Millennials should make them have a broader knowledge base than the boomers who work 50 years in one career.
@Secretwealth: I still have no idea what millenials you're talking about, because I certainly have never seen them. First off, anyone born 2000 or later would only be 12 years old, at most, which makes it absurd to talk about them having ANY kind of career or to speculate on how they might end up living.
Secondly, at least I can speak for GenY, most of the people in my generation all did the same as the boomers, except they left college with a lot more debt and no jobs except at wal-mart. Aside from perhaps a few scattered people in the uncollege movement (and a minority even there), and some people in other countries, I see no "mini-careers" happening. Most employers will still give you the finger if you show any signs of having other options not involving permanent servitude to that one company, no matter how crappy the job may be. Being well-rounded and having paying interests can work for you in some cases, but for the majority of the rat race they want blind obedience and absolute loyalty for nothing in return. Many crappy companies (not naming any names) seem to value loyalty and obedience much more so than quality of work or even work ethic in general, probably because work ethic declines to nearly zero shortly up the chain of management. Also, I don't count waiting tables or working at McDonald's to qualify as a "career". Not even a "mini-career".
Secondly, at least I can speak for GenY, most of the people in my generation all did the same as the boomers, except they left college with a lot more debt and no jobs except at wal-mart. Aside from perhaps a few scattered people in the uncollege movement (and a minority even there), and some people in other countries, I see no "mini-careers" happening. Most employers will still give you the finger if you show any signs of having other options not involving permanent servitude to that one company, no matter how crappy the job may be. Being well-rounded and having paying interests can work for you in some cases, but for the majority of the rat race they want blind obedience and absolute loyalty for nothing in return. Many crappy companies (not naming any names) seem to value loyalty and obedience much more so than quality of work or even work ethic in general, probably because work ethic declines to nearly zero shortly up the chain of management. Also, I don't count waiting tables or working at McDonald's to qualify as a "career". Not even a "mini-career".
