One of the things I identify strongly with in Jacob's ideas is investing in things that are built to last, and only those things which you need either A) for your serious hobby, or B) because they have a worthwhile ROI. Depending on where I live in ERE, I will probably invest in a very long-lasting pair of boots, for example. I'm also gleaning valuable information about future computer purchases from another thread (thanks guys/gals!).
Here is a list of durables that I plan to invest in over the next 6 months, including the anticipated amortization period:
* chest freezer (for meat and fish I hunt/fish myself) - $250 new including tax, 10 yrs.
* bike trailer (to haul meat, fish, produce, etc.--capacity > 100 lbs.) -- $300+, 20 yrs.
* cooler (to keep meat/fish chilled over long bike rides)-- $60, 10 yrs
* rifle (deer hunting) + case -- $1,000, 30 yrs.
* fishing equipment -- $200??
* meat grinder -- ?
* food mill -- ?
I will be able to fund these purchases by liquidating extraneous items, and then some. The return on investment for most of these things is qualitative rather than quantitative, and most of the quantitative benefits will be external to myself (lower carbon impact of my diet, primarily). For example, my amortized total costs for hunting and fishing, including licenses and ammunition, will be similar to the cost of eating a large amount of factory farmed meat and fish, but the quality will be exponentially better and healthier (quality!--of taste, of life), ostensibly also quantitatively adding to my lifespan.
In the next five years:
* piano -- $1,000, 40 yrs.
* computer -- $250, 10 yrs.
* house -- $50,000, 40 yrs.
I'm also considering buying a cheap ($55,000-$85,000) co-op/condo in the Bronx/Yonkers next year using a 10/90 or 20/80 mortgage, though I'm not sure about this because:
* the equity built over five years, assuming only historical appreciation, wouldn't even cover closing costs. (I assume I'll leave NYC upon ERE)
* my bike commute will be extended by at least 45 mins./day
* the savings on rent would be ~$0
I suppose I could wait 12-18 mos. and buy in cash, as an alternative.
Any tips for any of the above?
ERE Consumer Durables
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AlexOliver
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@Alex - conpewter said:
"Looked into the “For Life” Doc Martens, turns out when you do need to get them repaired, you have to mail them to Doc Marten on your dime, and pay a $25 administration fee (subject to change of course…). Seems like a better idea to buy a really good pair of boots anywhere you like, and get to know the local cobbler."
"Looked into the “For Life” Doc Martens, turns out when you do need to get them repaired, you have to mail them to Doc Marten on your dime, and pay a $25 administration fee (subject to change of course…). Seems like a better idea to buy a really good pair of boots anywhere you like, and get to know the local cobbler."
@NYC ERE- Just curious what your plan is with the computer for $250 that will last you 10 years? I read your post on my thread about which computer to get so I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say from that standpoint.
It sounds to me like you're better off renting on the cheap near your work than buying the co-op/condo (if you plan on leaving NYC). Craigslist a room for rent, that should keep your expenses very low. Seems like you have a pretty good idea of where you want to go otherwise, IMO.
It sounds to me like you're better off renting on the cheap near your work than buying the co-op/condo (if you plan on leaving NYC). Craigslist a room for rent, that should keep your expenses very low. Seems like you have a pretty good idea of where you want to go otherwise, IMO.
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George the original one
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The chest freezer and cooler should last 2-3 decades rather than a single decade. I understand you'll be transporting the cooler on a bicycle, so that could add to the wear & tear, but I'd be really surprised if it didn't last you 20 years.
Basic fishing equipment will be $50-75 if you buy used (and there's little reason not to). What will quickly swamp that cost are the licenses & bait (whether artificial or real; be kind to future fish generations & use artificial, please).
A quality piano for $1k seems unrealistic, but maybe there are decent used ones in that price range? My sister's beater upright piano that was bought used in the '50s was resold for nearly that much 20 years ago...
Basic fishing equipment will be $50-75 if you buy used (and there's little reason not to). What will quickly swamp that cost are the licenses & bait (whether artificial or real; be kind to future fish generations & use artificial, please).
A quality piano for $1k seems unrealistic, but maybe there are decent used ones in that price range? My sister's beater upright piano that was bought used in the '50s was resold for nearly that much 20 years ago...
I would not purchase real estate unless you expect to live there at least 5-10 years. The all-in transaction costs are enormous --- realtor, inspections, title search, etc. One advantage of buying in cash, though, is that you can avoid some of the transaction costs.
I agree with George's estimate on fishing expenses. It's possible to grow your own bait. Red wiggler earthworms and black soldier fly larvae seem to be two popular choices.
As I said in the computer thread, you can scavenge for computers and buy only supplemental parts for, I don't know, $50/year. There is a lot of free information on the internet about building and repairing computers. Like automobiles and bicycles, the important first step is understanding the "block diagram" of all the major parts and how they interact.
I like the bike trailer idea. Have you researched cargo bikes such as these?
http://www.industrialbicycles.com/platform_trike.htm
http://www.xtracycle.com/
I'm on the fence about which of these three solutions would work best.
I agree with George's estimate on fishing expenses. It's possible to grow your own bait. Red wiggler earthworms and black soldier fly larvae seem to be two popular choices.
As I said in the computer thread, you can scavenge for computers and buy only supplemental parts for, I don't know, $50/year. There is a lot of free information on the internet about building and repairing computers. Like automobiles and bicycles, the important first step is understanding the "block diagram" of all the major parts and how they interact.
I like the bike trailer idea. Have you researched cargo bikes such as these?
http://www.industrialbicycles.com/platform_trike.htm
http://www.xtracycle.com/
I'm on the fence about which of these three solutions would work best.
Thanks, Kevin and George, for the insights.
Re: cargo bikes, I especially like the Bakfiets Cargo, though it's quite expensive. Since I already have a nice steel road bike, though, I might like to keep it and get a trailer--it's a cheaper and more flexible option. Some cursory Googling got me to this list and these expensive, solid-looking things.
Re: cargo bikes, I especially like the Bakfiets Cargo, though it's quite expensive. Since I already have a nice steel road bike, though, I might like to keep it and get a trailer--it's a cheaper and more flexible option. Some cursory Googling got me to this list and these expensive, solid-looking things.
I see the highest quality of life being in the rural small towns (5k to 15K populations) that are at least 10 miles apart, with farms and cattle between them. Purchasing livable real estate (a moderate or modest home/land) should be in the 80K to 100K range.
People are people everywhere, but the slower lifestyle invokes a neighborly type of living, and more even keeled attitudes towards life in general. Less stress- better health.
I think the question for many is this: Can I find a job/earn a living in the rural mid west or south east? In your case, can you have a more effective ERE outside of NYC? I would imagine the answer to both would be yes.
Where I live, hunting and fishing are a strong suit. Almost religious if you will. Next would be football, but that is another story.
If I lived in any metro area, and wanted to retire to a very peaceful and serene life, I would immediately exit the metro, and depart my life from the heavy pace, traffic, ghettos, noise, and competition. I am not a "when the SHTF person" exactly, but I do think in terms of "wood stoves, kerosene lamps, wells, and stored/home grown food, guns and ammo". That is not gloom and doom preaching, it is the old boy scout motto "be prepared". I would want to face any SHTF in a rural area personally speaking.
People are people everywhere, but the slower lifestyle invokes a neighborly type of living, and more even keeled attitudes towards life in general. Less stress- better health.
I think the question for many is this: Can I find a job/earn a living in the rural mid west or south east? In your case, can you have a more effective ERE outside of NYC? I would imagine the answer to both would be yes.
Where I live, hunting and fishing are a strong suit. Almost religious if you will. Next would be football, but that is another story.
If I lived in any metro area, and wanted to retire to a very peaceful and serene life, I would immediately exit the metro, and depart my life from the heavy pace, traffic, ghettos, noise, and competition. I am not a "when the SHTF person" exactly, but I do think in terms of "wood stoves, kerosene lamps, wells, and stored/home grown food, guns and ammo". That is not gloom and doom preaching, it is the old boy scout motto "be prepared". I would want to face any SHTF in a rural area personally speaking.
Thanks for your thoughts, Mr. Spencer. Rural living is something I'm considering for ERE, and NYC is definitely not going to be my ERE city, unless my nest egg is larger than anticipated. I identify more with the politics and culture of city life, since I'm a product of it, and will hope to finagle some sort of hybrid lifestyle--city 6 mos., country 6 mos., for example.
I keep getting reality-checked by folks on this board re: real estate prices. My original thought, based on some casual Craig's List perusing, was $25k as an initial homestead--a used RV on a rural piece of land. I've upped this number to $50k based on feedback I got, plus to have the option of moving to a rust belt city for ERE. Based on your advice, as well as my interest in Tumbleweed small (not tiny; with a foundation) homes, $100k is seeming a bit more realistic...
I keep getting reality-checked by folks on this board re: real estate prices. My original thought, based on some casual Craig's List perusing, was $25k as an initial homestead--a used RV on a rural piece of land. I've upped this number to $50k based on feedback I got, plus to have the option of moving to a rust belt city for ERE. Based on your advice, as well as my interest in Tumbleweed small (not tiny; with a foundation) homes, $100k is seeming a bit more realistic...
Does anyone use a straight razor for shaving? A set of straight razors and associated equipment can last a lifetime. So its a one time cost. 3x $60 refurbished straight razors = $180. Strop and hones = $150. You can spend extra on a badger hair brush and shaving soap, but what ever one uses with a regular razor will work with a straight razor just as well.
A 12 count bag of disposable razors is around $6 and each razor lasts 2 weeks for me. So it comes to about $13 per year.
So it will take about 25 years to break even, but at least you will have superior shave and one less thing to buy and throw away every so often. I don't have any straight razors yet, but enthusiasts say a straight razor shave is the highest quality shave, so comparing costs to cheapo disposables is kind of unfair. If you use something like Mach 3, then you can break even in less than 6 years.
A 12 count bag of disposable razors is around $6 and each razor lasts 2 weeks for me. So it comes to about $13 per year.
So it will take about 25 years to break even, but at least you will have superior shave and one less thing to buy and throw away every so often. I don't have any straight razors yet, but enthusiasts say a straight razor shave is the highest quality shave, so comparing costs to cheapo disposables is kind of unfair. If you use something like Mach 3, then you can break even in less than 6 years.
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George the original one
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@NYC ERE - cool bicycle trailers! I could see a teenager starting their lawn care business with a bicycle and one of those... yes, I'm half-joking, but on the other hand it's not unreasonable, (particularly in the midwest).
Taking it a step closer towards your desired ERE lifestyle, the bicycle trailer and hunting/fishing combo would work well in the Eugene-to-Cottage Grove part of Oregon or in some of the coastal towns with large floodplains & forest (Coos Bay, Lincoln City, Newport). My biggest worry with such a rig (apart from wondering what it's like to cycle with an extra 300 lbs) is that it would be stolen, so I'm wondering how you plan to deal with theft potential?
I'd also be concerned about the longevity of an aluminum frame trailer if it has to be bounced over gravel roads. Welding aluminum is more difficult than welding steel. Have you had a chance to check out how well the trailers last with other people?
Taking it a step closer towards your desired ERE lifestyle, the bicycle trailer and hunting/fishing combo would work well in the Eugene-to-Cottage Grove part of Oregon or in some of the coastal towns with large floodplains & forest (Coos Bay, Lincoln City, Newport). My biggest worry with such a rig (apart from wondering what it's like to cycle with an extra 300 lbs) is that it would be stolen, so I'm wondering how you plan to deal with theft potential?
I'd also be concerned about the longevity of an aluminum frame trailer if it has to be bounced over gravel roads. Welding aluminum is more difficult than welding steel. Have you had a chance to check out how well the trailers last with other people?
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George the original one
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I agree that trailers are more flexible than dedicated cargo bikes. However if I were living in a rural area with no car and no public transit to fall back on, I'd want to have more than one bike so I'd have a backup. With multiple bikes it becomes reasonable to have very specialized bikes such as a cargo bike.
@ George Thanks for the Oregon tip--this is not the first time that part of the country has been recommended to me in the ERE context. A bonus is that it would take me much closer to my family in San Francisco than where I am or the rust belt.
I've been looking further into trailers, and no, I haven't read up on longevity or theft issues. What I've settled on is I'm going to build this trailer. This is a big project for me, because I'm not very handy, outside of the odd IKEA building project. The cost of a readymade, robust trailer seems to be $300+, and one of the many DIY projects I've seen estimates 15 hours for building one's first trailer--doing it myself seems like the ERE thing to do.
After sourcing the parts (almost all bicycle frames/stems/forks), I'm going to see about getting someone else to do the welding, unless I can find a cheap place to do it myself. I will keep your (George) advice about steel vs. aluminum in mind. I will start a new thread once I get going on the project.
re: theft, I would imagine I would lock it up whenever I'm out and about with it, but I can see how this might be a challenge in hunting/fishing settings.
@Jon I use an electric sideburn trimmer to "shave." It's not a close shave at all, but for me that's a bonus, because razors irritate my skin and the stubble look is fairly flattering on me (and most guys).
I've been looking further into trailers, and no, I haven't read up on longevity or theft issues. What I've settled on is I'm going to build this trailer. This is a big project for me, because I'm not very handy, outside of the odd IKEA building project. The cost of a readymade, robust trailer seems to be $300+, and one of the many DIY projects I've seen estimates 15 hours for building one's first trailer--doing it myself seems like the ERE thing to do.
After sourcing the parts (almost all bicycle frames/stems/forks), I'm going to see about getting someone else to do the welding, unless I can find a cheap place to do it myself. I will keep your (George) advice about steel vs. aluminum in mind. I will start a new thread once I get going on the project.
re: theft, I would imagine I would lock it up whenever I'm out and about with it, but I can see how this might be a challenge in hunting/fishing settings.
@Jon I use an electric sideburn trimmer to "shave." It's not a close shave at all, but for me that's a bonus, because razors irritate my skin and the stubble look is fairly flattering on me (and most guys).
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jacob
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The Doc Martens 'for life' seems to about buying into a service plan. The cost of maintenance (shipping plus fee) is as high or higher than what a cobbler charges. The only benefit, then, would be if the shoe/book breaks down completely, which is kinda unlikely.
$$$ shoes like Church or Allen Edmonds also offer refurbishment plans. I'd rather go with something like that and then stick to regular cobblers.
WRT (meat) grinders, 20-30 years ago, you could buy these hand-cranked cast iron things---my grand mother had one since forever. Now, it's all electrified and plasticized. Try to see if you can find anything at Lehmans.
$$$ shoes like Church or Allen Edmonds also offer refurbishment plans. I'd rather go with something like that and then stick to regular cobblers.
WRT (meat) grinders, 20-30 years ago, you could buy these hand-cranked cast iron things---my grand mother had one since forever. Now, it's all electrified and plasticized. Try to see if you can find anything at Lehmans.
For the piano, perhaps you could do with an electronic one instead?
I also wonder if renting out seat time on an expensive grand piano might be worthwhile. Say $15 an hour (cheaper than lessons but still with opportunity to play on a good piano) for 4 hours Saturday and Sunday. 4 or 5 clients. 120 bucks a week. A $50,000 (refurb Steinway model B) grand piano could be paid off in 8 years! Perhaps have a studio with seating for private recitals.
I don't know if getting private seat time on a grand is hard to come by though.
I also wonder if renting out seat time on an expensive grand piano might be worthwhile. Say $15 an hour (cheaper than lessons but still with opportunity to play on a good piano) for 4 hours Saturday and Sunday. 4 or 5 clients. 120 bucks a week. A $50,000 (refurb Steinway model B) grand piano could be paid off in 8 years! Perhaps have a studio with seating for private recitals.
I don't know if getting private seat time on a grand is hard to come by though.
re: piano cost. you can spend as much or as little as you want on a piano, agreed. my favorite piano i ever owned (i've had three, if you include my childhood piano) was an ancient upright that I bought for $400. there's actually a conservatory in Brooklyn whose pianos you can use for $2 an hour if you also take lessons there. the cheapest option breaks down to about $170 a month + hourlies. this isn't too convenient to my work/home either.
it's actually cheaper a lot of times in Manhattan to buy a grand piano because no one has space for them. unfortunately, i also don't have space.
@ Jon--this is a very good idea, i will keep it in mind as a potential side business! the only issue is that there'd be additional overhead of rent.
@ Jacob--point taken. The only caveat is that pianos do have a finite lifespan. Depending on build and use, 70-80 years. So if you buy a big (big=old) used upright, 30-40 years may depreciate it to $0, or $10 for kindling. (or $$$ for ivory!)
it's actually cheaper a lot of times in Manhattan to buy a grand piano because no one has space for them. unfortunately, i also don't have space.
@ Jon--this is a very good idea, i will keep it in mind as a potential side business! the only issue is that there'd be additional overhead of rent.
@ Jacob--point taken. The only caveat is that pianos do have a finite lifespan. Depending on build and use, 70-80 years. So if you buy a big (big=old) used upright, 30-40 years may depreciate it to $0, or $10 for kindling. (or $$$ for ivory!)