@Hoplite - What I mean is that I owe it to society not to break laws, clean up after myself, not infect everyone, shoot or enslave people, ...
What do we owe society?
@jacob,
My error. I understand your point, agree and could add to the list. It's just that most societal debt-mongers and "give back" sloganeers never account for the negatives that most people receive from society. As if society is only good and only provides good things (apparently free from effort and sacrifice). So the debt or give-back presumes positives; if you've been shot, infected, maimed, robbed or enslaved--no credit for you.
My error. I understand your point, agree and could add to the list. It's just that most societal debt-mongers and "give back" sloganeers never account for the negatives that most people receive from society. As if society is only good and only provides good things (apparently free from effort and sacrifice). So the debt or give-back presumes positives; if you've been shot, infected, maimed, robbed or enslaved--no credit for you.
I agree with jacob's point basically. You don't 'owe' anything besides treating the world the way you want yourself to be treated, and of course any agreements which you implicitly or explicitly enter. Of course that's kind of a blurry line, but what I mean by 'implicit' is something like going to work and expecting to get paid for it. Or I hand you money in exchange for some service, it's implicit that you'll provide said service.
Trying to solve society's problems is the wrong answer. First because there's no such thing as "society" that we can point to, and secondly because it implicitly discredits people's abilities to solve their own problems, which is the real answer anyway.
Trying to solve society's problems is the wrong answer. First because there's no such thing as "society" that we can point to, and secondly because it implicitly discredits people's abilities to solve their own problems, which is the real answer anyway.
Personally I wouldn´t see it as "owe" - I would see it as a "I benefit from it" in a system-thinking kind of way.
If I pick up trash, I have a nicer neighbourhood, if I plant a fruit bearing tree, I´ll have it´s fruits in 7-10 years, if I take care that kids in my community turn out "better", then I live in a nicer community in a few years. If I spend on charity I might live in a community/world that´s less prone to violence and crime (depending on the charity) and so on.
So to me it´s rather a "helping each other out" that in the end also helps me out.
If I pick up trash, I have a nicer neighbourhood, if I plant a fruit bearing tree, I´ll have it´s fruits in 7-10 years, if I take care that kids in my community turn out "better", then I live in a nicer community in a few years. If I spend on charity I might live in a community/world that´s less prone to violence and crime (depending on the charity) and so on.
So to me it´s rather a "helping each other out" that in the end also helps me out.