@j
ok ill bite
the premise of your original question is wrong
"Everybody know the truth about growth, it makes us sick, it makes us fat, it makes us miserable"
I think its too militant and i am attempting to bring a shade of perspective.
Growth? Shrink please.
@aussie thanks for returning to topic. And then: bang I phrase too militant!
You are quite right. It is provoking, not always right, but addressed to our forum, which I think and thought don't have to be convinced of the idea of -micro and macro speaking- shrinkage can mankind give a better/longer future.
All the ere book and blog contents and thoughts you can see as a way to escape ingrained patterns and become free and can choose if you want to work for money or do other things. But it is also meant to waste less and less of the proceeds of our earth, especially the finite resources.
I have not such a fine pencil as Jacob and others to write so well about a rather difficult topic as ere, which essence is a complete turnaround of the American, European, Australian (and other countries) way of life as the majority sees it.
Therefore I ask you and this forum for help and suggestions to get a way where the ere thoughts can be brought to a more institutional level.
Perhaps to reach that level, the only way is to begin as we all try to do, and than, and if its get more momentum the institutional level will be reached.
But the more and more journalists, economics and politicians internalize these thoughts, and get the insight that in most cases growth is the wrong solution to a problem the more momentum it will get.
You are quite right. It is provoking, not always right, but addressed to our forum, which I think and thought don't have to be convinced of the idea of -micro and macro speaking- shrinkage can mankind give a better/longer future.
All the ere book and blog contents and thoughts you can see as a way to escape ingrained patterns and become free and can choose if you want to work for money or do other things. But it is also meant to waste less and less of the proceeds of our earth, especially the finite resources.
I have not such a fine pencil as Jacob and others to write so well about a rather difficult topic as ere, which essence is a complete turnaround of the American, European, Australian (and other countries) way of life as the majority sees it.
Therefore I ask you and this forum for help and suggestions to get a way where the ere thoughts can be brought to a more institutional level.
Perhaps to reach that level, the only way is to begin as we all try to do, and than, and if its get more momentum the institutional level will be reached.
But the more and more journalists, economics and politicians internalize these thoughts, and get the insight that in most cases growth is the wrong solution to a problem the more momentum it will get.
I would suggest that we are already traveling down this path (less is more) as a society. The US is already becoming more efficient in oil use and as a result has seen almost a 2% contraction in oil demand:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... KK20120628
Also, it's much more acceptable now to not have a car.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rs/255001/
Obviously, this is just a start, but changing this type of societal behavior without a major Pearl Harbor type event is like turning the Titanic. It just takes time.
Probably the best thing we can do is live minimalistic lives without being assholes. Meaning that we shouldn't preach down to people, but demonstrate how you can still live a good life without really sacrificing much.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/ ... KK20120628
Also, it's much more acceptable now to not have a car.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... rs/255001/
Obviously, this is just a start, but changing this type of societal behavior without a major Pearl Harbor type event is like turning the Titanic. It just takes time.
Probably the best thing we can do is live minimalistic lives without being assholes. Meaning that we shouldn't preach down to people, but demonstrate how you can still live a good life without really sacrificing much.
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aussierogue
- Posts: 379
- Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:02 pm
@J - appreciate the sentiment but as chad says i reckon its already happening. Economies are shrinking (the market is seeing to that). Europe and USA are consuming less because people have less and are worth less money.
So yes i agree there needs to be a change in mindset but the real enforced change is happening due to depressionary times.
So yes i agree there needs to be a change in mindset but the real enforced change is happening due to depressionary times.
I just reread Jacobs post "money versus resources" , I recall the message " un inconvenient truth", and the books of Catton I have already mentioned in this thread.
I cannot beat these outings which all cry: growth? shrink please.
So at last I accept what Ego, aussierogue, Chad are suggesting me: demonstrate what you want to convey, enforced change (by depressionary times) works better than preaching and install a new default of smaller/less is better until proven otherwise.
I cannot beat these outings which all cry: growth? shrink please.
So at last I accept what Ego, aussierogue, Chad are suggesting me: demonstrate what you want to convey, enforced change (by depressionary times) works better than preaching and install a new default of smaller/less is better until proven otherwise.
Ere thoughts brought onto a more institutional level
First reaction: can´t be done - Second reaction: hmmm. Third thought: didn´t Borsodi get a school and several communities growing?
So first answer: do it yourself and write a/several books about it. Now may be a great time again, because peopel start to feel pinched by economy. (And heck: how many people exactly are into this forum already)
First reaction: can´t be done - Second reaction: hmmm. Third thought: didn´t Borsodi get a school and several communities growing?
So first answer: do it yourself and write a/several books about it. Now may be a great time again, because peopel start to feel pinched by economy. (And heck: how many people exactly are into this forum already)
@ anomie: "It is ironic that many of us interested in ERE depend on this capitalist economy to fund our more peaceful lives." and "For me, it is frustrating to see the growth attitude present even in the small town in which I live. Assumption that growth = progress , while our small town begins to sprawl and transform into a suburb of nearby city".
I agree
In another thread called "liquidity trap" you see the standard reactions: oh no growth, now I cannot get extra capital!
How to change this ingrained view?.
ERE is changing you way of life but be consequent and change also your view on economic growth.
@ marlene
thanks for the answer, but I must be realistic about my capacities
I agree
In another thread called "liquidity trap" you see the standard reactions: oh no growth, now I cannot get extra capital!
How to change this ingrained view?.
ERE is changing you way of life but be consequent and change also your view on economic growth.
@ marlene
thanks for the answer, but I must be realistic about my capacities