Buying a computer - ERE style

[benrickert]

I am looking to buy a computer - probably a laptop unless you convince me otherwise - in order to do independent work and projects outside of primary job. It is mainly for writing, excel, powerpoint, internet searches etc. - the very basics - and should not be fancy. It should be as 'simple as possible, but no simpler.' I have started learning some basic coding although not sure where it's taking me. I am not a computer person. What should I buy?

As an extension - what software do I need? It looks like many software-as-a-service leads to entrapment...?

Thanks.

[jacob]

In my opinion "not a computer persons" who are otherwise comfortable with a smartphone (especially android) and spend most of their computer time in a browser anyway should get a chromebook. The reason is that there's not much to learn and not much (anything) that can break. Once the hardware dies, you simply buy a new one and everything (the entire setup) is transferred back from the cloud. All the chromebook does is to function as a terminal. This also means that you could have two, like one at work and one at home and instantly switch between them as if nothing changed. It does require an almost constant internet connection though (you can work offline, e.g. edit documents, but it's not very efficient). A chromebook is also cheaper than similar hardware for the other OSs. Ours (Lenovo Ideapad) cost $105.

You will likely be using google docs, google sheets, google slides, google finance, gmail, and the chrome browser, which will cost you nothing. Likewise, you'll be restricted to what software (apps) you can find in the google play store. There are code editors there too.

If you have an existing computer, you can try it for free: https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/how ... -for-free/ This may require some light "computer person"-skills though. It can be run off the USB stick w/o installing it.

IOW, you could get an old laptop and just install chromeos on that. Or you could buy a new dedicated chromebook for a few hundred USD---doesn't really matter much which one. The difference between chromebooks and regular e.g. windows or apple laptops is that the chromebooks don't have superfluous hardware like e.g. large harddrives, which they don't need anyway. Hence they are cheaper.

Just to clear up any potential confusion, we're talking about ChromeOS (the operating system), not chrome the browser. The chrome browser is the default in chromeOS, but you can of course also run firefox.

Caveat: If you need to exchange files with someone else (school, work, ...) e.g. you need "Excel" rather than just wanting the ability to make spreadsheets, I'd recommend sticking with whatever OS "they" are using, in this case windows.

Add: I should note that this approach will fully trap you in the google eco-system. It seems that the biggest risk here is running out of storage space and having to pay for it. Everybody gets 15Gb for free, which is practically infinite, when it comes to docs, spreadsheets, etc.. but not very much if you use it for video. You could avoid this by downloading your stuff to a USB stick---in this case make sure that your chromebook has an USB port.

[Scott 2]

What type of phone are you using?

What is it you are hoping to do, that your phone cannot?

What if the phone was docked to a monitor, keyboard and mouse?

How often do you have the need?

Could you use computer time at the library, or check one out, to solve that?


I agree with Jacob that maintaining your own computer is an annoyance. Chromebook is a pretty good solution. It's a small learning curve coming from another OS.

As a computer guy, I'm running Ubuntu Linux on a refurbished PC from microcenter. Libre Office instead of word , Excel, etc. It started life with a Windows 11 license and could be reverted if needed. There's a learning curve.

IMO it's eventually to be replaced by doing everything from our phone, using cloud apps from the big tech companies. Chrome OS will converge with android as that happens.

[AxelHeyst]

+1 Plug for LibreOffice's capabilities. I regularly interface/collaborate on complex spreadsheets with Excel users without too many problems. I also wrote and formatted for publishing (print and ebook) a book using LibeOffice Writer.

[Lemur]

When my 15 year old laptop finally kicked the bucket, I got a Pre-Owned Dell Optiplex 9010 off Amazon for ~$60. Came with Microsoft Windows 10 Pro. I already had a monitor. Its about as cheap as you can get if the goal is to simply browse the internet and use Microsoft Office Suite of Tools. This PC could not handle a n64 emulator but had no problem with SNES. Only issue is some of the USB ports don't work.

[benrickert]

@Jacob Thx. Chromebook seems like a good option. However I would need the programs to be compatible with Microsoft Excel / Microsoft Powerpoint. Can documents created in Windows / Microsoft office be easily opened and edited with Google programs and vice versa? I would need to open, edit and create things that other people will interact with and Microsoft Office is the standard. Even more important that it's easy for them to interact with the Google files I create/edit.

@Scott_2 & @ AxelHeyst Thx. For the moment only using company sponsored phone so need an independent setup. What are the main restrictions you run into when using a phone over a computer? Are there any problems you run into with Libre Office when editing Microsoft Office files, or vice versa?

@Lemur Thx. Buying a used computer is probably closest to ERE as long as one understand what one is buying. What are the main pitfalls to look out for?

[jacob]

@benrickert - You can click on the links above (e.g. google docs) and make some documents and spreadsheets and see how easy it is to transfer back and forth without having to buy anything. The chromebook is just a convenient terminal but any computer (browser) can do it.

In general, though, import/export always comes with some risk of breaking. Unusual features might not transfer over. For example, when repeatedly transferring a document between LibreOffice and Word the "notes" and "edit.revision history" would always break. This was several years ago though, so maybe this particular problem has been fixed. However, the risk remains. It's easier just to use the same program/system than rely on emulators and workarounds. The same would be the case if you're using fancy excel coding that might not be available in googlesheets. Vanilla functionality would be just fine. Again, you can try it (right now) to see if it works.

If you can get a [refurbished] optiplex in Norway, that would be the best idea. The main pitfall is that Win10 will be deprecated in Oct 2025 (no more security upgrades!) and the CPU might not be compatible with an upgrade to Win11 (this is the case for my optiplex, a 7020MT with an i7-4790). So make sure it comes with Win11. Other than optiplex (which are really cheap used in the US because businesses sell them in large numbers whenever they turn over their machine park), stick with name brand, like e.g. HP, Dell, Compaq,... not some fly-by-night operation.

[Scott 2]

Minimum hassle for Microsoft Office document exchange, is going to be using Microsoft Office. There is a simplified web based version that could be access from a Chromebook. Though if you want to run office locally, Windows 11 is needed.

The problem with Microsoft Office is you'll need to pay for it. Annually. Subscription fees are financial poison. Hence taking on the minor hassle of using an alternate office suite.

If using a phone as the primary device (specific Google pixel and Samsung phones), Google's cloud offering is what you'd use. Restricted to the phone apps, there is significant compromise in features. They can be enough though. In the US my local library offers laptops for check out, which would handle the edge cases.


You'd run Libre Office with either a Windows 11 or Linux PC. That's the closest subscription free office experience.


The trade off of choosing Windows 11, will be every 5-10 years, Microsoft forces an OS upgrade. If they stop supporting your computer, it can work perfectly, yet need to be replaced. There's also a Windows licensing fee baked into PC purchases. Even when buying to run Linux, it's incredibly difficult to avoid.


So why take on Linux? The trade off between Microsoft Office and Libre Office exists for most software. Often the good enough for solution is trivially and legally available on Linux. You also gain dramatically more control over privacy. In your case though, I do not recommend the learning curve.

[jacob]

So .. homework for @benrickert:

1) Click on this link: https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/
2) Click + to make a new document and write a bunch of stuff.
3) Figure out how to export this document to Word format and bring it over to "the other people"'s computer, e.g. mail it or use a USB stick.
4) Open it on their computer.

1) Save one of their documents... like the most feature-ridden one they have.
2) Bring it back to your computer.
3) Import it as a Word document in Google Docs and see what comes up.

1) Do the same with a spreadsheet. Start by clicking https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/

[ertyu]

I've tried to do this with word and there's formatting glitches. Not unfixable and not a problem if you're dealing with, say, a single school paper, but might be an issue in an professional setting where what you output on gdocs gives you no guarantee a ms word user will see the exact same document. And obvs if two users need to collaborate on a document, it wouldn't work if they're each on different platforms.

[jacob]

@ertyu - Yes, that ... one-way is doable. Back and forth is tedious (fixing the same mistakes over and over and eventually just letting them be). When I collaborate on docs, the draft might be written on another system (like my Neo2), but as soon as more people get involved to make the final edit, it moves to google docs. One of the benefits of that is that coworkers can be anywhere in the world and simultaneously work on the same document. You can even see where the other guy's cursor is.

[AxelHeyst]

Are there any problems you run into with Libre Office when editing Microsoft Office files, or vice versa?

I set up one of my spreadsheets in LibreOffice (but saving to .xlsx) to print/export to PDF the way I wanted using print preview borders etc, but when my colleague attempted to open and print from her end using Excel it tried to print every single (blank!) row and column. Something like 36,000 sheets irrc. Solution: I printed from my end.

Sometimes the graphs etc will get borked. If you have to do heavy/frequent collaboration mixing and matching excel and libreoffice users is a bad idea.

[loutfard]

Minimum hassle for Microsoft Office document exchange, is going to be using Microsoft Office.

To be even more precise, it's to be running the same version of Microsoft Office. That's one of the things many don't realise. LibreOffice often is more compatible with different MS Office versions than MS Office itself.

[delay]

When I look back at the computers I owned nothing comes close to an entry model MacBook Air. I bought my last one for it for €1050 in 2020 and sold it this year for €450. So it cost me €120 a year to own. During those five years I used it daily and it never let me down. When I sold it, it still had great battery life, and it was just as fast as on day one. It ran any program I needed when I needed it. The free LibreOffice is an excellent Microsoft Office replacement.