bookworm's journal

[7Wannabe5]

On a walk yesterday, I thought of my Fe as a little girl...it helps me conceptualize in a different way if I throw in the gender aspect. I was also a bit gender non-conforming despite male central tendency ("too sensitive"...etc.) and have complicated sexual preferences.

This is more how I visualize Fi. My nearest sister and my first husband had primary Fi, so I am quite familiar with the "sensitivity." This sensitivity can be both moral and aesthetic. Fe is more slobbery with emotion, less refined. I associate Fe more with the adult or maternal feminine, because humans with primary or secondary Fe are often found in caretaking professions or positions. Fi will retreat when hurt by other humans. Fe will become exhausted by trying to over-extend circle of care. Fi sits with her kitten in the window seat and watches the rain, and then composes a sad piece on her piano. Fe hostesses the fundraiser for the cat rescue and doesn't say "No" when her ex hits her up for sex...again.

OTOH, it could be the case that I visualize Fi as more juvenile because further down my own functional stack and vice-versa for you, but I am pretty solid that Fe as a little girl likes baby dolls, because not a baby herself, but Fi prefers fashion dolls and cries for an hour every time she gets her hair cut and thinks she looks ugly when she sees herself in the mirror, so then Daddy has to go to the deli and buy all the special sandwich ingredients she prefers, because also kind of a picky eater. Of course, Daddy also has to come rescue eNTP every time she climbs up in a tree with a book and a snack, but then can't get back down again, but that is more of a primary Ne issue. Good thing Daddy was a 6w5!

[bookworm]

@berrytwo Thank you. I ordered the book from library so I'll see what I think...Type 5 seems like a good base for more self-crit. Also introspective negativity can be good medicine in the right place for me...I guess I had a lot of external negativity early on so I needed to keep internal pride strong (which in turn created other problems), but I've come around a little on internal critique now that some fears have been dealt with. Glad you're enjoying the series.

@7 I appreciate the prompt and the coloring you put in your descriptions. They are helpful for me to conceptualize my own thoughts in this area, once I ponder them for a bit.

I suspect you are right about Fi versus Fe (it may be that the the valence of Fi has shifted from masculine/feminine with time? In that case, I would feel more rooted in my adult masculine energy as well.).

My sense of masculine/feminine seems less developed/detailed than yours. It was something I only started think about relatively recently in my late 20s.

Edit: after writing one of a couple of versions of what follows I shamelessly borrowed your 4-quadrant system which I encountered again recently which subconsciously made it into my thinking crudely as "man", "woman", "girl", "boy"...): viewtopic.php?p=254963&sid=4f49d53b1287 ... 7e#p254963

general note: my self has generally been secure in my masculine valence (although there was dissatisfaction and some crisis points during transitions). Perception, integration, and recession of feminine aspects has been done in the background of masculine function. I'm sure this varies from person to person.

I workshoped level of personal detail a while until it felt authentic with sufficient signal (awareness of gender primary/secondary with time) and level of appropriate sharing...this was a good challenge to me and took longer than expected. could probably revise it a couple more time but seems good enough for now...

dyad1: There was a "boy" (juvenile masculine) in charge, but a "girl" (juvenile feminine) was in the field doing defense. The "girl" (juvenile feminine) was reinforced in consciousness because I was considered too sensitive/perceived inferior to other boys/etc. Ni/Fi loop going strong...( * )

monad: Anyways...a "man" (adult masculine) came on the scene ~15 years to basically run the show through my undergrad (homeschool to large public university campus) and into my first job as a "successful" software engineer. During this period I had experiences/relationships that were perceived to be lacking from previous stage of life (making up for "lost time"). There were also some issues with addictive sensory tendencies combined with environmental conditions, but these moderated due to professionalization and conscious skill development. The Predicament/ERE came to fore at this period (to the extent that I understood parts of both) however the practical response (see selective understanding) became synonymous with leanFIRE/ life-energy-spend at ~20-25k in order to escape 9-5. Fortunately, I kept learning and trying to understand the world (expanding boundaries of what I saw as rationality) and worked on my artistic expression with music with which I was reasonably successful (outside of serious $) in big city playing in different bands/etc.

dyad2: After inner work and sufficient experience in previous stage, I had a subtle-realm(?) experience where a Gaia-like entity showed up, temporarily overpowered my masculine valence, and gave some blunt feedback about some additional blindspots with the feminine (pointing me towards actions to mend/improve relationships with women in my life). This combined with some adverse circumstances, brought out a "woman" (adult feminine) to conscious awareness. Pouring more life energy into relationships and gardening, for example, became more salient.

triad: In addition to "man"/"woman", I felt in touch with a "boy" as well through more sensory activities (hiking/"fun" intellectual pursuit outside $ payoff frameworks, among other things). The "boy" has good-enough parents who help him stay out of trouble in adult world.

pentad: in last year or more, there's more awareness (to this mind) of the "girl". She is shy and only comes out in times of high stress or...openness. So the work is to keep her safe.

mbti note: I see my cognition functions to be following quite different paths than this gender expression. for example, during much of monad at least the primary stack was pretty clearly in place in mind with varying levels of maturity.

developmental note: "man" or "woman" doesn't denote maturity level. Plotkin would help with transition from adolescence, adulthood, into elderhood...I am only concerned with the expression of gender.

[7Wannabe5]

My sense of masculine/feminine seems less developed/detailed than yours. It was something I only started think about relatively recently in my late 20s.

Well, you are well ahead of the curve than me, because I didn't really start thinking about this sort of thing until I found myself in marital crisis in my late 30s. Although, I would note that the younger generations do have a bit more scaffolding made more readily available. OTOH, this was in part due to my book-snob refusal to read anything resembling self-help or pop psychology until my self hit near rock bottom.

dyad1: There was a "boy" (juvenile masculine) in charge, but a "girl" (juvenile feminine) was in the field doing defense. The "girl" (juvenile feminine) was reinforced in consciousness because I was considered too sensitive/perceived inferior to other boys/etc. Ni/Fi loop going strong...( * )

My original monad Ne functioning has been described by my mother as she who "would not stay down for a nap, because afraid she might miss out on something." Even though I core identify as feminine (or, at least, heterosexual female), I consider Ne to be aligned with my "juvenile masculine energy", but this may be due to "exploration/curiosity" being culturally viewed as positive for males and negative for females, as in Pandora and the box or Eve and the apple. My first dyad NeFe is the Fun Mom/Big-Sister. However, I did feel different from other girls due to often being more interested in "boy stuff" like collecting snakes and frogs and playing marbles, and less interested in "girl stuff" like comparing tiny purses and hop-scotch. I've also always had as many male friends as female friends. Recent research seems to indicate that at the genetic level gender/sex is more of a spectrum, with the somewhat unexpected evolutionary motivation being that people find those of the opposite sex who are a bit less than thoroughly at the end of either spectrum more sexually attractive.

Anyways...a "man" (adult masculine) came on the scene ~15 years to basically run the show through my undergrad (homeschool to large public university campus) and into my first job as a "successful" software engineer.

I became "self-authoring" around age 13/14, pretty much simultaneous with becoming an Atheist, but I wouldn't describe my secondary Ti which I associate with the adult masculine (The Snowy Owl) as "running the show." More like "watching the show from distant cold perch in high tree." I also dropped out of high school at this age, so conventional success has only intermittently entered into my Adventure-Cottage-Library vision-quest, usually as more towards a back-up or parachute plan, kind of like when a homesteader might have to work on the railroad to make some cash before going back to central purpose on farm, whereas for a male INTJ it seems to be more like an intermediary level to be achieved in a video game.

This combined with some adverse circumstances, brought out a "woman" (adult feminine) to conscious awareness. Pouring more life energy into relationships and gardening, for example, became more salient.

This seems very Fe to me, very much the Cottage in my Adventure-Cottage-Library. I was only forced to consciously inhabit my juvenile feminine Fi when she was injured during the course of Ordinary Marital Sadism within my Naive Level Green first marriage. My ex was a 4w3 AKA The Critic, and it takes a lot of criticism to finally get through my rubber ball like soul, but eventually he succeeded in making me feel "unpretty" and also care about feeling "unpretty" and my arguments along the lines of "It was my observation that I was only in the 40th percentile of chubbiness amongst those waiting in line at the donut shoppe this morning." no longer worked for me. So, I entered into a period where all my Fe care I had previously provided for others was consciously focused on self-care for my own internal juvenile feminine Fi. This actually proved to be a fairly easy task once I became self-aware, because it was like my internal juvenile feminine was quite small, but essentially solid. Kind of analogous to a guy who has natural talent for sports, but doesn't really value or enjoy sports. IOW, I core believe that I can "make myself pretty, inclusive of pretty behavior' if I want to, but it's so fucking boring, I usually don't bother unless I am for some reason compelled to want to romantically engage a human in their masculine energy. Look at my cute little hands fixing my cute little face. Look at my cute little purse that matches my cute little shoes. (and now, please, excuse me while I barf a cute little bit in my cute little mouth.)

developmental note: "man" or "woman" doesn't denote maturity level. Plotkin would help with transition from adolescence, adulthood, into elderhood...I am only concerned with the expression of gender.

Yes, and it's also fairly obvious that if you engage the Parent/Child/Adult model of TA, that a Parent perspective, as I somewhat hold in my tertiary Fe, may be less developed or less towards Adult than another function which seems more child-like.

[bookworm]

I would note that the younger generations do have a bit more scaffolding made more readily available.

Two examples come to mind:
1) reading ERE for the first time and clicking on jlf-quick-update-1.0.exe
2) having male friends/roommates who went to therapy for their issues and were open about their feelings

I became "self-authoring" around age 13/14, pretty much simultaneous with becoming an Atheist,

If interesting/helpful to answer, what images and/or feelings were associated with this transition?

[7Wannabe5]

If interesting/helpful to answer, what images and/or feelings were associated with this transition?

Well, in retrospect, I was quite depressed at age 14/15. More so than I have ever been since. Kind of like I was suddenly viewing society as being like a movie where all the sets and scenery are obviously fake. I dropped out of school with intention to educate myself in the library, hitchhiked, shoplifted, smoked a bit of weed (substances were never my thing), had sex with a guy in his 20s, etc. However, it wasn't a get a tattoo and a mohawk kind of rebellion. More like I was looking for an exit from the expected-lifestyle-escalator. I think this was partly due to my ability to intuit that very few of the "successful" adults around me were very happy with their lives.

One of my Fe patterns (the consistent ability to pass as a conventional adult "good woman") that has repeated applied to the way in which I dropped out of church attendance at age 13. Instead of attending the service, I volunteered at the baby nursery, and then I was cast to play the wife of our Episcopal minister in a Passover play, because I had the appearance of an adult at that age. My mother was in love with him, so that was kind of weird. Anyways, my parents were intellectual in their religiosity, so agreed that I could stop attending church after I went through the rite of confirmation which made me an adult in the church. I never attended a church service after confirmation except for the odd wedding or funeral, and never received any flak for my choice beyond my mother occasionally trying to sell me on accepting it all as metaphor. I dabbled in Islam during my second "marriage" in my 40s, but it didn't stick.

Anyways, I never felt the Level Orange need to "get a full-time job" as passage to adulthood at age 22, because I had already proven that I was competent in all adult female role tasks at Level Blue by the time I was 15. IOW, it's not that my value-meme was Level Blue, but that I recognized that it was a cheat-code for skipping over boring Level Orange, and jumping directly forward to Level Green Hippie Mom in my early 20s. IOW, "caring for others" is generally a more socially acceptable excuse for not having a full-time job than even "writing a novel" or "living off my investments" or "saving the planet." The trick is training the others you are caring for to not bother you too much when you are reading a book or working in the garden.

[bookworm]

I think this was partly due to my ability to intuit that very few of the "successful" adults around me were very happy with their lives.

Something like this was realized around early adolescence as well. I was very comfortable with the idea that basically everyone around me was deluded and/or not following their purpose.

Unlike you, I did not achieve peak gendered role until ~23. There was a sense that through Level Orange standard career I might be able to extricate myself from an undesired life situation (high control/conservative religious family with limited financial/social resources of my own) into wider world that might be a little bit better (*)

So I went away to college for a STEM major, and hit the books (while doing dumb stuff/getting drunk with friends/having music as emotional outlet). Then I got a cool job/bought a (used) car/lived in my own apartment/lifted weights/dated a bit, then started to think - what's the big deal? I didn't seem to bother most of the people either my age or the old-timers at work running down the clock, but I wanted out.

(*) To be fair I had a few Level Green+ people around me, but they seemed (at the time) to be asking me to sacrifice myself for something that didn't solve a core problem in my personal situation.

[7Wannabe5]

Then I got a cool job/bought a (used) car/lived in my own apartment/lifted weights/dated a bit, then started to think - what's the big deal?

Yeah, modernity is pretty empty unless you get/stay really into career/money, cars/fashion/house, working out/fitness, dating, or travel/etc. Most in the U.S. deal with it by sticking/returning to Level Blue/Traditional in at least one realm of life, such as marriage, parenting, club-membership, or religion. When Level Green/post-modern is fairly mature in a culture or sub-culture*, it often resembles Level Blue, but with both more inward (psychological) and outward (global concern) perspective.

*In the U.S., Level Green is not everywhere or evenly dispersed, but also not difficult to find/locate yourself within. I doubt that Level Yellow is anywhere conglomerated in large number; in part due to newness, but also due to the difficulty of systems integration. Level Turquoise holds a perspective on systems integration, but this perspective is passive, so it will be up to Level Burnt Umber (I actually can't remember the color) to "accomplish" the global integration. Or something like that...

[jacob]

Yeah, modernity is pretty empty unless you get/stay really into career/money, cars/fashion/house, working out/fitness, dating, or travel/etc. Most in the U.S. deal with it by sticking/returning to Level Blue/Traditional in at least one realm of life, such as marriage, parenting, club-membership, or religion.

All vMemes are pretty empty (unsatisfying) unless one is really into them. vMemes tend to emphasize either the individualistic or the collectivistic, whereas individuals usually need a bit of both with the ratio determined by individual temperaments, people will typically seek "solutions" in one warm color and one cold color. E.g. orange/blue, green/red (boomeritis), ...

A lot of this depends on how much "backing" a given color has in someone's local environment. For example, the metacrisis space has a surprisingly large number of "wannabeGreen" who ultimately default to "Blue". This is an interesting phenomenon. I see this "regression" as a failure-mode of not having what it took to generate enough "v" at the desired next level---and ultimately downgrading to N-2 because that's what's there.

E.g. if yellow ERE with its many variables is not for you, there's always the orange fatFIRE of picking one variable at a time and just optimizing it.

[7Wannabe5]

@jacob:

Yeah, I agree. My situation is maybe a bit odd in that my hometown/family is centered around one of the most Green/Yellow spots in the U.S. So, for example, I have never (since 1986) hosted a Thanksgiving dinner without providing a Vegan alternative.

[bookworm]

Please read earlier discussion for context in which this was written...
Personal Musing #4: On Family Colors and Reversion from Level Green

My early life was basically centered in Blue with a strong undercurrent of Red (Pentecostal church/homeschool family/conservative/"evangelical" frame). I did not have that (relatively) much exposure to the larger culture or relatively liberal state in which I was raised.

The extended family of origin (on one side at least) is similarly Blue/Red continuum. Orange took its foothold in the Nth generation (which I denote as my own), and there were some network effects to draw us together (although individualism keeps us relatively isolated). There are/were a few scattered Green-adjacents in the mix, and I was drawn to one of them (or vice versa) who happened to be the oldest aunt.

Unlike many of in this family system, she had left the bioregion of birth for extended periods, moving on to liberal (and, for the time period, quite progressive) enclaves in the US. She strikes me as also an INTJ (she didn't know what a feeling was until her 20s...or something...paraphrasing...). Anyways, she had a remarkable self-authoring capability especially once she made the physical move away (I always thought I might follow in her footsteps in that regard).

She introduced me to evolution/science/Orange rationality/uber-liberal Christianity in the Green/Yellow manner of John Shelby Spong, had me reading Freud at early age, and was (unsurprisingly) rather sex-positive. Anyways...she and all the helpful resources on the Internet helped me break out of Blue/Red into Orange (agnostic atheism/left libertarian/Math degree).

This observer kept on learning...it was interesting that there was some noticeable felt "resistance" from her when FI was mentioned (in elliptical fashion). Something about the pandemic brought out a deep-seated resistance to...you might know what...redacting...A little after this time, she ended up coming back to original bioregion due to aging/health concerns. During the last public choice of national executive, she opted for the color after blue (N-2?)...which made sense to me. There is a continuing desire to honor her and our shared connection.

Anyways long story short - it's interesting to see how at least some of us move in the spiral based on the amount of feeling/thinking support in the community in which we are embedded. I'm having some interactions with Level Green at the group level which I might explore in a later post.

[bookworm]

Personal Musings #5: On the Relationship Between INTJ and INFJ

When I was in my first job, done with proving theorems, and somewhat secure about Level Orange identity (now that the Blue terrors were somewhat behind me), I had a thing with INFJ woman around my same age. She wrecked me. (*) I had to pick up the pieces for a while. I got to reading English novels...and even traveling Europe on a (moderately) expensive ~2-week vacation in Europe away from the job. After a while, this stabilized into more stereotypical behaviors...for example speed-running levels for jazz improvisation/theory study (exploring Se), going to jam sessions, and reading heady books.

The thing I am becoming aware of (**) of is that we can meet at Ni which can be a deep connection, but if we can't see at/past each other's feeling-structures or thinking-structures (which are not straightforwardly isomorphic), there's bound to be some disturbances in the relation. The shared judging function appears to add to the volatility.

For example, I'd imagine that if this human and I were (both) further along wrt "Grow Up" , the relationship would have proceeded differently.

(*) Or did I do it to myself? also, in somewhat of a dialectical relationship with "a gentleman never tells"
(**) Based on reflection and interactions with others who appear to be "of this type".

[7Wannabe5]

Well, an INFJ is supposed to be the type most likely to be picky/idealistic about primary relationship, so don't beat yourself up too hard. I may be wrong, but it has been my observation that INTJ is more utilitarian in a manner that makes them less or differently choosy than many other types. Like if you folk could use Consumers Reports to acquire a partner like a kitchen range, you would. I chose "kitchen range" as illustrative, because it has also been my observation that INTJ is also towards type that will stay with a partner as long as they keep cooking for them, and also make a hard-break or even start visiting another kitchen if/when the cooking stops, kind of like "It is only logical that if there was no food on the table at 5 PM, I would seek food elsewhere. I do not understand why you thought further communication might have proven beneficial."

It is sometimes suggested that INFJ makes a good match with ENTP, but I think within anything resembling conventional dating paradigm this would only be true in more likely situation* in which the ENTP is masculine-energy and the INFJ is feminine-energy. My reasoning here being that the tendency of an ENTP towards being somewhat oblivious to interest from others is an advantage in active/assertive mode with INFJ, but a disadvantage in more passive/responsive mode. IOW, highly unlikely that I would ever date an INFJ if I was following the rules of dating, because by the time they made up their mind about whether or not I was close enough to their "ideal" to actually ask me out my attention would have moved on through at least a dozen other possibilities. Actually, a male INTJ friend of mine once accused me of never dating any introverted men for this reason, but that is not entirely true.

*INFJ men are rare and so are ENTP women.

[bookworm]

I may be wrong, but it has been my observation that INTJ is more utilitarian in a manner that makes them less or differently choosy than many other types.

That is accurate to this INTJ's experience in relationship. I've come to accept the utilitarian approach, although I've learned to filter it when describing things to many other humans.(*) I would say that since my partner is INTP, my judgment tends to be rather well-received while her perception tends to broaden awareness/prevent me from going too far in some proposed life alteration.

It is sometimes suggested that INFJ makes a good match with ENTP, but I think within anything resembling conventional dating paradigm this would only be true in more likely situation* in which the ENTP is masculine-energy and the INFJ is feminine-energy.

INFJ men do seem fairly rare. I think I've met one or two that I can remember. It's interesting because they modulate their feelings through different emotions(?) like anger it would seem. Speculative but there's also a kind of juvenile masculine energy to them (directed towards other men and maybe wrt recounting relationships with women) that seems surprising at first given their (likely) sophisticated feeling-structures.

[7Wannabe5]

Sometimes ENTPs are also mis-typed as INFJs, because least extroverted extrovert type. ENTPs definitely have juvenile masculine energy (primary Ne) and is one of the types most likely to talk about sex (because sometimes known as The Sexy Nerd), whereas INTJ (sexual identity The Secret Agent) is one of the types least likely to talk about sex. Some people might think that ENTPs are bragging when they talk about sex, but really it's more like we always kind of find it surprising, like an unexpected weather event, due to our oblivious kind of dodo nature, so we have to intellectually process it afterwards. Kind of like when Benjamin Franklin did his experiments with electricity, he was likely simultaneously aware and oblivious to the possibility of getting shocked, and then he had to write about the results of his experiment in his daybook and discuss it with the other members of his salon.

[bookworm]

Sometimes ENTPs are also mis-typed as INFJs, because least extroverted extrovert type.

What's the reasoning here? Something about Ne...

This is fascinating. I could see my initial label as projection on my part (looking for commonality...) given some other evidence that's coming to mind. There is still a thing or two that was said that code more INFJ so I'm maybe 60/40 INFJ/ENTP on this person at this point.

Your label for ENTP reminds me a lot of one friend. He was a kind of serial monogamist by way of dating app who would often go into detail on his impressions of this woman or the other. I was a little put off by the whole thing at time (thinking of it as typical bragging), but I kind of see (especially now) how it was interesting to him. There was some coldness to it, but I think that moderated with time.

[bookworm]

Personal Musings #6: On the Relationship Between INTJ and INTP (Part 2)

Rather similar dynamics would play out with XNTJ and XNTP. Changes perhaps who is doing the "leading" / "following" role. Masculine / feminine energy can be used as metaphor.

To balance discussion of a struggling family member who I am rather sure is an INTP, I've also met a lot of high-functioning/realized INTPs as well. There is perhaps more variance in terms of outcome (and this is also a function of value framework by which to judge status/success and broader sociopolitical conditions of life unfolding.) (*)

The (I)NTPs I've met keep me honest in many ways. Like anything that you say/do will be under fairly strict surveillance for consistency with broader field (of variable size), whether of not this is directly communicated to you.

INTPs can be grounding people for this INTJ. As one example, I know that whenever I have some kind of "shift" (for example, doing a life system refactor/upgrade), my partner (INTP) is usually supportive even as she modulates my Fi in a more constructive direction. I do need to initiate these kinds of changes for us however. Together, the INTP and INTJ can become quite good friends/mates (***). The INTJ keeps the INTP on the path through the forest, the INTP keeps the INTJ looking at all the beautiful trees along the way.

(*) For example, there is a hiker friend I am fairly sure is INTP who is also a former STEM professor/brilliant based on accomplishments in field (elite level by objective standards of which this observer is familiar)...who is now a mental health professional/energy worker based on spiritual leading (**). He also seems to have figured out a solution to money problems similar to jean's strategy.

(**) In an attempt to prevent misunderstanding (hah), this does not appear to the observer to be burnout/breakdown. He appears to have continued contributing to/consulting in related fields in hard sciences, although his output obviously slowed with new career. It seems his PFC is still active. Also mindful of his privacy, so will refrain from too much additional detail at this point since enough has been added to make point. Challenging person in some ways (which appear(ed)/(s) mutual at times). Thankful that our paths crossed.

(***) A suggestive reason is that the union of the primary stack of INTJ (Ni Te Fi Se) to the primary stack of INTP (Ti Ne Si Fe) is the full set of cognitive functions. However, the ordering excluding e/i is not the same which reduces isomorphism. Concurrence may require "shadow work" or whatever that label points to as underlying individuating process.

[7Wannabe5]

Rather similar dynamics would play out with XNTJ and XNTP. Changes perhaps who is doing the "leading" / "following" role. Masculine / feminine energy can be used as metaphor.

Well, in terms of stereotypical gender roles in our culture, the masculine to feminine energy line up would almost certainly be ENTJ, INTJ, ENTP, INTP. Although, it is also the case that NT Rational group as a whole is generally male dominant, so INTP is also seen as more masculine than feminine in energy when considering general population. One of the problems I have when in relationship with an EXTJ male is that I frequently find myself "pushed" from eNtP functioning to iNtP functioning. Like a quiet nerdy chipmunk snacking on free nuts in the bowl in the corner, logically plotting her eventual escape from the giant's castle. For example, I don't know why I am currently letting one of them pay my phone bill. It seems kind of stalker-possessive-controlling-etc.

[bookworm]

That ordering seems right/is helpful. I never had a good grasp on masculine energy for some time, partly due to being somewhat smaller than average male and, likely more importantly, having a big brother ENTJ (but probably ~eNTj) who put me in my place, among other factors.

Relationship with brother seems to have improved when I just decided to stay in Te for as long as I can muster, with a few Ni context-switches to keep him off balance/intrigued and also give myself a break. Also cool to see him growing through balancing things out with his own Ni and seeing a gap with respect to Fi.

[bookworm]

Continued change in internal state, grateful to...

Also going through Angels Fear(*) which is getting me thinking more about the contours of the earlier unity conversation and what flavors of epistemology are implied in the discussion. Also would like to finally read David Bentley Hart who might have some helpful additions that may be consistent/complementary with Bateson's framework, in particular this book:
https://www.amazon.com/All-Things-Are-F ... 0300254725

(*) Haven't gone through Mind and Nature yet, but may be able to get it as well.

[7Wannabe5]

I never had a good grasp on masculine energy for some time, partly due to being somewhat smaller than average male and, likely more importantly, having a big brother ENTJ (but probably ~eNTj) who put me in my place, among other factors.

Yes, I had similar issues due to being tall/large-framed for a female, oldest of 4 sisters no brothers, and also good at math/science. There was literally nobody for me to date at my high-school by junior year, although the situation steadily altered to the extent that I had zero difficulty finding men more grizzled than me by mid-life. I'm sure you already know this, but the easiest method by which to signal masculinity as a smaller man is simply to occupy more space in an assertive manner. I usually auto-magically date men who are around 6'1" 200 lbs. 7 years older than me, but I've dated men as much as 7 inches shorter than me or 50 lbs. lighter than me or 20 years younger than me(I actually still have a good figure, flattish stomach, when I am as heavy as 189, although 169 is my "fighting" weight, and 149 is towards my weight at age 14.) and generally it is some kind of display of overt dominance that wins me over.

It can be helpful to remember that although there are, on average, innate differences between the sexes, gender is largely culturally constructed. For example, I have difficulty typing my second "husband", because he grew up in a culture in which masculinity is differently gendered than in the U.S. So, I can't decide whether to assign his tendency towards exhibiting "large emotions" in addition to his extreme bossiness to F, or T (for turbulent as opposed to A for assertive, 5th letter designation more recently added to MBTI) and/or his culture not gendering masculinity =emotionally constipated.

I would also note that it has been my experience that even men who have MBTI types most associated with females or femininity within shared cultural construct are almost always also more innately male than even they believe themselves to be. IOW, I not infrequently have had to look to the post-it note that reminds me that "Even sweet, spiritual, emotional, and/or artsy guys are assholes too." IOW, it is my belief that MBTI doesn't apply at the crocodilian level where testosterone levels in the womb/puberty permanently influence certain brain structures. Although this is not to imply that this isn't also along a continuum. An example of what I mean would be the tendency to have visual cortex highly engaged in sexuality.