ffj's Early Retirement (round 2)

[Henry]

Amish Romance is a fairly popular sub-genre. Many humans fantasize about leaving behind the complexities of modern/post-modern life and just finding themselves married to a random, muscular farmer with baking biscuits as most complex task on day's ToDo list.

There's obviously no shortage of wood in the community.

[delay]

But most biblical scholars do not agree with the teaching of militant pacifism. St. Augustine had a well developed just war theory spelled out in the 5th century.

St August lived from 354 to 430, so that's the 4th and 5th century. The Roman empire converted to Christianity early in the fourth century.

So before they were the official state religion, Christians promoted pacifism, and afterwards Christians promoted just war. It's hard to see how it could be otherwise. A minority cannot afford to wield violence. The official state religion has to support war to defend the empire.

[Henry]

Stating that the Roman Empire "converted" to Christianity is not accurate. Constantine initially accepted Christianity purely out of self-interest. He was an aggregator of Gods and wanted all of them on his side to fight his enemies. Upon his designating Christianity the state religion, he did not uphold Christianity's doctrinal claim of exclusivity. Roman citizens could still retain their non-Christian gods. So although Christianity was the official state religion, the Roman Empire was functionally syncretic when it came to religion. Furthermore, a bifurcation between post-Constantine Christianity and pre-Constantine Christianity when it comes to just war theory is innacurate because Christianity's basic teaching are not militantly pacifist. Jesus makes claims such as "I did not come to bring peace but to bring a sword." Christianity is a religion of division leading to eternal separation of believers and non-believers. It describes life itself as spiritual warfare. A religion that holds doctrines on eternal judgement and the existence of hell does not lend itself to militant pacifism. And just because a group believes in just war, does not mean they are out to wield violence. It just means that under certain circumstances, they believe a violent response is justifiable. Before Constantine, the highest expression of Christian observation was martyrdom. But it was not based on pacifism. It was based upon a religious ideal of emulation.

[delay]

Christianity is a religion of division leading to eternal separation of believers and non-believers.

Yeah, I've noticed that! Kind of reminds me of the Corona era, where you saw very effective division as well. I thought that must have been what it was like to live during the protestant reformation. Or even more recent, as late as 1930s, Dutch protestants were not allowed to marry Dutch catholics, and families broke ties over that.

Before Constantine, the highest expression of Christian observation was martyrdom. But it was not based on pacifism. It was based upon a religious ideal of emulation.

I think Christians would agree that Jesus was a martyr, and that we should thank him for "buying our release from sin". I'm not sure I understand your meaning with "ideal of emulation". Who where Christians emulating?

[Henry]

I think Christians would agree that Jesus was a martyr, and that we should thank him for "buying our release from sin". I'm not sure I understand your meaning with "ideal of emulation". Who where Christians emulating?

They were emulating Christ. Between the end of the New Testament era until the time of Augustine, when Christians were fighting the perception that they were just a sectarian form of Judaism, Christian identity was primarily found through externalities, whether it was martyrdom, sitting on a pole or fighting demons - the world and the devil. It was not until Augustine that the Pauline idea of the internal warfare within the individual returned as as an expression of Christianity - the flesh. It was an historical oddity but can somewhat be explained through the "inhabited world theory". Up until the time of Luther, people lived in a world of forest goblins and water demons. That started to end with the Renaissance and the rise of humanism which explains why the Reformation was a complete return to the Pauline emphasis on the flesh as being the Christian's greatest concern.

[chenda]

I find Christianity a genuinely difficult religion to understand compared to other world religions.

[Henry]

FFJ out there fighting Johnson Crass only to return to his thread getting jacked like it's the Book of Job.