Brainstorming

[brainstorm]

Thanks for the tip! I didn't know about the bends. I'm not quite at 40 credits - just 7 short after this year. But I think I can manage $13K in income over the next 30 years (temp or part-time work is pretty likely even apart from my lower WR goal). That'll already have me max out the 90% zone of PIA thanks to software wages. To hit the second bend, yeah...I'd need to work almost 2 more decades I won't say never, but probably not. I mean, this is the ERE forum after all.

https://ssa.tools/ is a nifty site for this stuff.

[brainstorm]

Until now I haven't tracked per-month spending explicitly in a spreadsheet. Instead, I created a theoretical budget to determine how much to auto-invest from each paycheck. I spent several hours looking through old bank and credit card statements to get some data, and I'm glad I did. Here is 3-month rolling average spend (to smooth the curve a little bit but still show recent improvements at expense reduction):



(I did a brief run-through to not count transfers as income or spending, for example, but there are still some accounting errors; you still get the picture)
*Edit: Fixed double-counting issue

I spent a lot more than I thought! I figure this is the common personal finance / high-earner trap where one is complacent because income and savings have a high absolute value even if spending is still inefficient. I was still saving a lot more than the typical person, so I was content. I hadn't gone down the early retirement rabbit hole, much less ERE, but could still see the value in having a healthy savings account (I paid grad school tuition from cash savings, so it had already proven useful).

Rough timeline:

• 2021: Last year of grad school. Got an internship and then a full-time job (while still in school), and spending followed. I think my extra spending was mostly on eating out and office stuff (got some nice computer monitors and mechanical keyboards).
• 2022: Done with school and working full-time. The huge spike is a combination of moving (broke lease, so had to pay 2 months' rent as a fee) and nice furniture for my new apartment (I had a big boy paycheck and was excited to spend).
• 2023: I found MMM this year. Started trimming the fat and sold my car. The spike late in the year was a vacation where I did spend more than usual but also includes 2 plane tickets (for friends) that I was reimbursed for.
• 2024: Trimming some more - fewer subscriptions and eating out - but I still decided to move into a very nice but very expensive apartment. Mid-year vacation was awesome but expensive (mostly flights and eating out).
• 2025: Co-op life

Rent and furniture has been a consistent big expense (I've still managed to spend plenty of money on other things too). I live in a big city and have enjoyed living alone and/or in more modern apartments. Gradually I have come to realize that my happiness and stress levels are related more to other things, like my daily habits and work, than the design of the apartment. I've felt miserable in a beautiful apartment - it doesn't magically improve my mood, it tends to beget expensive furnishings, and the high rent payment means I'm more reliant than ever on a high-paying job (the lock-in). Now I prioritize a small, clean, safe living space, and I'm more okay with doing my own thing. Natural light and easy outdoor access are negotiable too - they're more like band-aids when I spend most of my awake time inside on the computer. If I do different things during the day, they're less important.

Anyways, this new data also allowed me to go back in time and estimate my net worth in terms of years of actual expenses:



(CoL is also based on trailing 3 months here)

Obviously, the fastest progress comes when you reduce expenses by a lot. There's still room to improve, but it's nice to have some data now. As long as I keep consistent with cheap housing and low consumer spending, I'll be in a good spot. The motivation is more tangible now that FI is no longer 10-15 years away.



I think it's probably close to time for another re-read of the ERE book

[Scott 2]

FWIW, the consumption from my highest earning years offered a from of inoculation. Especially after winding it back by choice. Life doesn't feel like doing without, because I tried the expensive thing. I know it's not that important to me. There's no wonder about tradeoffs.

Cool to see the data. Good confirmation of your intuitive understanding.

[7Wannabe5]

My late life experiment with actually living by myself in a tiny apartment for the first time in my life (I was already married mom when I graduated from college) syncs very well with your graph. I think communal living is the easiest means by which to drop expense/resource usage per capita. However, this also somewhat clashes with the individualistic philosophy associated with FI. I now think of the pattern language of "room of one's own" as forming the minimal conjunction.

[delay]

Thanks for sharing. Going from 5 to 24 years of expenses divided by net worth is going from a 20% to a 4.2% SWR. That is a big jump in one year, congratulations! I note you're using 3 months' trailing expenses, what about yearly expenses? That's why a 12 month period is often used.

In one way it looks like you're being as frugal as you can to get RE as fast as possible. How much do you look forward to living at this level of expenses? If your frugality is temporary, that changes your SWR. Like you wrote, "the fastest progress comes when you reduce expenses by a lot", that is also true in reverse

[NewBlood]

Very cool to see the evolution and the magnitude of your recent progress, brainstorm!
I hope the co-op living works out for you on a long-term basis. How has that been going?

[brainstorm]

@Scott - That's a good way to put it. I never spent above my means, but I don't really have to wonder how things would be different if I spent a lot more. I can just compare how things were going back then to how they are now. All the changes involved in going back to normal US spending levels have drawbacks in multiple areas, so it feels like a bad trade.

A big part of the journey has also been identifying what spending is going towards what needs. I think this is the really important part. For example, fancy apartments are an attempt to have beauty at home, but even a fancy apartment that's cluttered is disgusting to me, so what's really important is not the price or appliances or in-unit laundry but that it's small, clean, tidy/uncluttered, and light. As far as "beauty" goes, I can throw in a few plants and pieces of art and feel pretty good about it. For eating at restaurants, it's mostly a way to have novelty and social time. By identifying the need behind the desire for something, I can at least determine if the purchase will meet that need at all - is it an "accurate" purchase? And by evaluating the costs involved (implicit and explicit), alternatives for that capital, etc, I can make a more "efficient" purchase.

Anyways, that's a bit tangential but that's how I've been philosophizing about spending lately.


@7Wannabe5 - Definitely agree! Community and FI can work together well, but spending time on one's income, education, optimization, etc (particularly in accumulation) can take away from time and energy to spend on others and develop meaningful relationships. I know I've had times where I'm stressed or exhausted from work and I skip community events as a result. I'm certainly glad I have a room all to myself But on the flip side, it seems a lot of people struggle with connection and meaning after leaving full-time employment as they also choose to live alone. So yeah I agree they work together well although there's some tension. Not to mention the social and environmental advantages of shared living that motivate many people outside the FI circle.

[brainstorm]

@delay - Thanks! My rolling 12-month spend is about $40K and dropping fast. I'm shooting for a spend under $20K this year. Like I said, I used 3 months above because I made some significant changes at the start of the year that I wanted to separate out from past habits.

I'm not sure I'd say I'm being as frugal as possible but maybe I'm just being pedantic. Most of the progress comes from a single area - housing. I pulled a big lever by moving from the high end of the market to the low end of the market. That's a big spread in my city, and in particular you pay a big premium for a 1br compared to a studio or roommates. I can keep pretty close to this level with roommates (slight increase perhaps), and I'm open to moving at some point in the future. I still have some luxuries in my budget that I could trim if I were truly desperate: gym ($95/mo), Hulu ($21/mo), eating out, ...

As far as if this is sustainable, I'm enjoying it so far and think I can keep close to this level in the future. It's incredibly nice knowing that I could not work for years and be okay. I like living with roommates; they enrich my life and I grow as a person because of them, and I have a room to myself when I need some alone time. I do rent; I'll probably want to settle down eventually but at this point in my life I enjoy the extra freedom and lower maintenance versus purchasing. I'm fairly environmentally conscious and minimalist (and just don't want to make millions of decisions), so I feel good about a lower level of consumer spending. It's not always convenient, but I don't want a convenient life, I want a good life. There are a few things I want to try more of in the future - mostly outdoorsy stuff like hiking, camping, backpacking - but they aren't terribly expensive.


@NewBlood - Thanks! So far it's been a good experience. I really like some of the new neighbors and have enjoyed spending time with them. I'm not sure I ever would have gotten to know them in any other circumstances, so it's a unique situation. The meal plan has been good and very convenient when coming home after a long day and having food ready (substitutes for planning ) We have some events and dinners that I've enjoyed a lot too, and it's been fun to bake and cut hair for other people. The main downsides I've felt so far are: unbalanced participation (some simply do not participate in the community or help with chores, which can mean more work for me), differences in communication style / unproductive conflicts, and the landlord is a bit of an, err, character. Usually when I'm feeling particularly cynical or frustrated by those things, I'm also feeling very stressed or overwhelmed by work and other obligations, so I think it's just that stuff bleeding into other areas. So yeah, overall I think it's been good. I want to spend more time with those people that I do like a lot, and try to do small things to keep them happy - selfishly, if they moved out, I'd probably enjoy it less here. Of course I might like the new people a lot too, but you never know.

[delay]

I do rent; I'll probably want to settle down eventually but at this point in my life I enjoy the extra freedom and lower maintenance versus purchasing.

Thanks for your reply! A rule of thumb is that buying is financially balanced at 20x the yearly rent. I've always been a renter myself. I like professionals doing maintenance and the freedom of having liquid instead of real assets.

[brainstorm]

@delay - Thanks for the tip! It's helpful to be able to gauge the relative "deal" of renting vs buying. I'll look more into advanced calculators when I'm actually searching, since I know other factors can make it more or less balanced. Around here, highrise condos are most of the supply at my cost BUT come along with HOA fees of anywhere from $500-1500/mo. How nice. Anyways, like I said, something to keep in the back of my mind for a later date.

[brainstorm]

May 2025

Life

The month had some highlights for sure, but it was also very busy and draining - at work during the day, in the evenings, and on the weekends too. I ended up getting sick, not surprisingly, and it took a while to recover. I definitely overextended and am in need of / looking forward to some time to chill out.

Yesterday I spent the evening at the beach, mostly just sitting by the water or walking barefoot on the grass. The weather was warm and calm, an improv group was playing drums, and there were hundreds of folks out enjoying themselves - sitting or walking, grilling, playing in the sand or water. It was very nice I look forward to many more. It seemed like the unofficial Memorial Day celebration since the weather has been so cool.


Finances

Spending: $1,350
Savings: $9,484

Spending Breakdown:

Code: Select all

Housing          700
Groceries        211
Misc Spending    116 (water filter, earplugs, curtains)
Travel           105 (wedding out of state, family in town)
Gym               69
Entertainment     65 (dates & hobby spend)
Internet          55
Hulu              21
Medical           10
Transportation     7 (local transport unrelated to travel)

A bit high in unusual areas and some lazy spending (e.g. bought curtains new from Target). Looking forward to June as all this extra stuff settles down a bit and I get more time to relax and be outside near home - and cut down spending in the areas that aren’t particularly satisfying.

5-month check-in: YTD spend annualized is $18k. My goal is under $20k. Looking doable!

I contributed about $2k after-tax to my 401k to try out the mega backdoor Roth, mostly because I was curious and my workplace allows it. On the expense reduction side, I switched internet providers which will be cheaper and also give me a $100 gift card after 6 months. And I’ve cut Hulu too. I’d like to make better use of the summer and the extra friction helps get me doing different things. I can check out 5 movies or TV seasons each month from the library. $41/mo down.


Fitness

League finished and it was a really great time - met a lot of cool folks and trained hard. My team did really well, and I got a very nice jacket as a prize. I got a lot stronger too! Bagged my first half-crimp pullup and my first weighted pullup (+70 lbs) at the end a 3h session. Not bad after only being able to do one pullup when I started climbing 2 years ago. More frequent climbing has been really helpful and I plan to keep it up.

The experience was a really good learning opportunity:

• I’m a lot stronger than I think! Trying HARD and having good self-talk means I can surprise myself, climb harder stuff, learn new moves, and have more fun. It’s really cool to struggle on several moves at first and then string together the whole thing.
• Warming up is also really important. Not even for injury prevention, just for getting my body and mind ready, which also helps me have a good time.
• Waiting in a line to climb is lame, but I enjoy the competition. A good dose of it can help me to get revved up and focused.

Reading

Finally, some books I read:

Rosshalde
The Death of Ivan Ilyich
How to Want What You Have

[brainstorm]

Surprise, dear readers - Friday was my last day at my job! I'm taking the summer off.

The motivation is twofold: I'm feeling some mild (perhaps autistic) burnout*, and it's summertime and there are a lot of other things that I'd like to do.

(*) It's certainly been up and down. The draining parts of the job have generally taken up more of my time and energy than they used to, and the systems in place are such that they are likely to get worse over time. I've learned that, career-wise, I would not enjoy a management role, but might warm up to a higher-level IC role - it would be challenging for sure, but might also be worthwhile.

My higher-ups have liked my work, so that door's not closed permanently. But I'm also curious how other orgs handle their stuff, and think it will be a good growth opportunity to practice my interviewing and work in a different environment. I'm sketching that in for ~September.

I plan to spend my time reading, journaling, sewing, meditating, exercising, walking, being outdoors, camping/climbing, etc, and at a scale I can't reach while also working full-time. I realized I've been full-time at work or school (sometimes both) for some time now and am curious how it feels to be outside of this. No big plans to find myself on the beaches of Thailand, but I'm looking forward to it and the change in daily structure (I could also be bored out of my mind, but it'll be good to find out). I figured it would be better to start along with summer rather than push on for a couple more months for <2x CoL AND have worse burnout AND miss the best weather.

Here goes nothin!

[NewBlood]

Yay, congrats brainstorm!
Enjoy your summer!

[Scott 2]

Congratulations. A several month break is powerfully clarifying. So much better than squeezing restoration into a week or two vacation. I suppose the spending cuts were foreshadowing.

That's a heavy weighted pull-up. I had to look up the half-crimp too. Quite a grip feat.