What is "screen time" and why are some trying to avoid it?

[jacob]

Many journals/people talk about reducing "screen time". Indeed, enough reduce it in such a disciplined way that a distinctly monthly pattern can be seen on the forum's traffic with activity being nearly twice as high in the first week of every month as it is in the fourth week. I have a few questions:

First, why reduce it? Personally I get 12-14 hours of screen time per day and I don't feel overwhelmed or desire to reduce it. Nor do I feel addicted. If I go camping or visiting people, I usually don't bring my screens along (I do bring a book though). "I can quit anytime"

Second, is it perhaps not because screens are bad per se but that other things are better? For example, the format of the screen forces a certain level of abstract/context-free conversation or reading at the cost of contextual and emotional relations with other humans and perhaps there's a preference for the latter? Ditto the lack of sensory inputs from screens relative to the smells and sweat from natural nature.

Third, it occurred to me that we might mean very different things when using the word "screen time". For some it means scrolling through TikTok clips. For some it's the endless social media newsfeed or doomscrolling. Some might want a break from staring at spreadsheets or visualstudio (is that still a thing?) after 10 hours if nothing else so as to avoid getting nearsighted. There are probably other activities that I'm missing. For example, maybe some are actually actively avoiding reading too many books on hoopla, trying hard to avoid reading the newspaper, or don't desire to learn about new things?

So for those who want to reduce screen time, what is it that bothers you about screens or staring too much at them?

[chenda]

I've seen the term used in the context of children's health. Not getting enough exercise and promotion of forward head posture due to screen use. There's also some evidence screen use has led to a rise in short sighteness.

[Scott 2]

Dopamine chasing, in the worst case. All the junk food websites people love. I don't think reducing that needs explanation.

Otherwise it's opportunity cost. Even chatting here avoids other deep work. Do the deep work, and sitting still kills.

There's also a point of diminishing returns. Hours 10-14 on the screen aren't very constructive. Especially compared to the physical actions that are now limited to a tiny minority of the day's hours.

It's a constant struggle for me. Screen time is extremely forgiving of my sensory and social limitations. But exercising them is probably smart.

[sky]

The amount of hours spent on screen time reduces time spent in physical reality. Some reasons why one might be frustrated with too much screen time:

One needs a certain amount of time in the physical world to perform cleaning, maintenance, hygiene, cooking, gardening, exercise, etc. If one experiences a deficit in any of the above physical world activities, frustration can build against screen time.

Creativity can be expressed both in the virtual as well as the physical world, however one's time and focus is limited, so creativity in one reality diminishes expression in the other reality. While screen based tools are useful in design, if one's goal is to build or create in the physical world, one must walk away from the screen and engage in the physical world for a time.

There is a great deal of false information from screen sources, abstract theory which does not align with reality, cultural programming, gossip, misinformation, stupidity, etc. This can occur in any form of human communication, but at the moment most communication is through a screen, so frustration related to false information is directed at screen time.

The human experience through millenia has been to experience the world through the senses. The senses are used in a different way during screen time, which might lead to a feeling of deficit or dullness of certain senses which are used less, compared to what the human body has developed a need for.

Screentime generally mean inactivity. At a certain point the body needs movement and this need for movement might be expressed through frustration with screen time.

[Lemur]

@Scott 2

+1. Relevant post from Ran Prieur:

May 22. After Monday's post, I got some feedback about moderating internet use, and my latest thought is, social media addiction is mainly a problem for people who already have addictive personalities. Whatever the seduction, the bigger a problem it is for you, the more you need strict rules. The less of a problem it is, the more you can wing it. A serious alcoholic has to never drink a drop. A non-alcoholic can easily have one drink and say that's enough.

More generally, I think the most valuable mental/emotional skill right now is the skill of pulling out, or letting go. Not just pulling out of a compelling behavior, but pulling out of a compelling idea. There are a lot of very harmful cognitive shortcuts floating around, simple and satisfying ways of thinking, and we need the skill of saying, that thought is not true, and that thought is not me. It's just a tool that you can pick up and put down.

So I agree with Ran's take that it is mostly a problem for people already predisposed to addictive behaviors...but in the defense of most people, the social media algorithms are designed exactly with the human brain in mind to capture its attention. It is cunning business bordering on the unethical.

So for those who want to reduce screen time, what is it that bothers you about screens or staring too much at them?

It is not the screens themselves per say (I love the internet and all the things I can find and read and learn about) but it’s getting caught in lost opportunities from wasted time. I noticed that when I deleted my Reddit account (my go-to source of getting captured in the dopamine feedback loop of doom), I start to regain my attention span and not coincidentally I started lurking and posting more on these forums more as a result. I feel the forums are at least a better use of my time. Interestingly enough, this isn't the first time I've deleted my account, only to re-download it with the intent of implementing strict rules, to only slowly loosen up those rules and then getting sucked back in.

[suomalainen]

+1 to everything said above. I’ll also add that for me, I don’t do social media so I notice the dopamine drip / FOMO issue more when watching youtube and in particular youtube shorts. It’s just damaging to me in a way that watching scripted, professionally produced content on say Netflix is not. I also notice that Netflix binging is worse than the once a week TV I knew growing up. Perhaps that’s my addictive-ness.

As to kids - the neck thing, the short-sightedness, the training them for constant dopamine, the lack of interaction by a biological being with a biological world are all concerning to me as a parent. When used as a tool to stay connected with friends in real life, it seems healthy. When used as escapism, it seems unhealthy. It’s like voluntarily plugging into the Matrix.

[Jean]

I don't try to reduce screentime.
I think it is really is a very broad basket. You can do a lot of different things behind a screen.
Behind my computer screen, i can be gaming, reading, making music, listening to a podcast, watching a movie or a video.
Also, among those activities, except making music, i can have vastly different engagement. Sometime i get real enjoyment out of what i'm doing, and sometime, i do it as an automatism. Also while doomscrolling is a pure loss of time, farming in video game isn't completly, because it kinda help for havibg your brain thinking freely. It's a bit like a pacifier for the part that sometimes disturb your train of thought.
What i would like to get better at is to notice quicker when i'm not enjoying what i'm doing, and leave the screen to do something else.
I am satisfied that i managed to train myself out of starting watching shorts.
I am now at the point where i can even start watching a short confidently knowing that automatic action after watching the short will be to close the windows and not watch another short.
I think biggest problem with screen activity is the very low barrier to start doing them. So everytime boredom kicks in, it will be the go to, instead of anything else, and it tends to reduce the diversity of activity i do. And it also leads to do thing we get less from than what we could have done otherwise. If I want to do other things, i need to either plan them in advance, so that the barrier is down when it's time to start, or to have a friend calling me to join him.

But at least, having grown up before screen where that much omnipresent, i got to develop the ability to do other things.
Having occasionally worked with kids, i can see the effect. A lot of kid are very physically impotent. I will want to avoid my kid being like that, and this might be a good reason to limit my screentime, just so that they dont copy my screen behavior too early.
Also, everything is so plugnplay now, that a kid doing a lot of screentime doesn't mean he'll learn shit about computers. My 11yo neighbours wanted a gaming pc, so i offered to help him build one, but i ended up building it myself while he was scrolling tiktok. And the pc was constantly crashing, but he did nothing to diagnose why, and 4 month latter, his dad asked me for help. It was quick to fix (and not my fault, one part was deffective, apparently common with that model, sending it back and getting a replacement fixed the issue). But shit, i even showed him how to do a proper google search and all, but he didn't care. I thought all generations of teenager had at least some interest into fixing their toys.

It's a bit like alcohol in that way. Adults suffer less negative effect than kids, but adults shouldn't get drunk or smoke in front of kids. And since hiding things from kids is hard, behaviours that are bad for kids should be avoided altogether.

[IlliniDave]

I'm in the same camp as Scott 2, I think the primary downside is the potentially addictive dopamine pursuit. There are also some who will contend it can interfere with sleep if done right up until bedtime. That's really the primary time I make an conscious effort to reduce it, although I could do better in that regard. But I don't have some sort of limit nor to I measure it.

As far as physiological issues (e.g., sleep interference) I get the sense that LED screens are the main culprit. I'm not sure if an old school CRT television screen is problematic or not. Nature's diurnal cycle floods us with red and amber light late in the day. Hitting ourselves with blue light theoretically disrupts the circadian rhythm that most animals use light to align with.

It does get to be a time suck. Like right now, I'm just back from town and have some yardwork I want to get done. But on the way back I got a notice I'd received an email from a friend. So I decided to check that out. Then I stopped by another site briefly, and then here. 45 minutes on my butt I could have been up and moving around. That means I'll finish later and have less time for a hike before I have to be somewhere for supper.

I've always attributed the beginning of the month surge to that being the time the most people seem to update their journals.

ETA: I wanted to mention when I hear or use "screen time" I'm generally thinking time other than what would be considered work. I dunno that it matters all that much, but I tend to think of it is time staring at some screen I could opt not to.

[delay]

Dopamine chasing, in the worst case.

Exactly. When I'm tired and start browsing YouTube I can easily spend a few hours. When looking back at the end of the week I regret those hours.

Also, everything is so plugnplay now, that a kid doing a lot of screentime doesn't mean he'll learn shit about computers.

So true, and a big surprise to me. As a programmer I thought when I was 50 I'd be obsolete and young programmers would pass me by. Turns out youngsters are mostly afraid of the command line.

[Biscuits and Gravy]

“Screen time” for me is any time spent in front of a screen outside of traditional work. I grew up on video games and never gave a second thought to time in front of screens until my first husband got a smart phone and his addiction (his description) negatively impacted our relationship. Well screw you and screw this I thought (should have yelled it) as he fondled his glowing screen into the early hours of the morning instead of his hot wife. This friction was, however, just a symptom of a shitty connection between two mismatched imperfect humans. I can’t blame it all on the screens, even though I gleefully did at the time.

Some people can handle 11-14 hours a day in front of a screen and break away and climb a mountain (in the evening hours, I guess, equipped with headlamps galore) and be befuddled by another human’s inability to function on the same level. One of my biokids is like that. Couldn’t care less about screens. They enjoy them while they’re on, and when they’re off they skip onto something else. The other one turns into a total see you next Tuesday if they’re removed from the dopamine drip. How to raise such a child so that they have the willpower and ability and incentive to voluntarily unplug in a screen society is a frustrating and probably impossible problem as a parent. So I limit my screen time (set a positive example! /s) and limit their screen time (I’m such a good parent! /s) and struggle to accept that ultimately I have no control over society’s screen fascination/reliance and my kid’s slow drain into… who knows.

Mostly I limit screen time and talk about limiting screen time (IRL) to encourage a “balanced” life for my kids. Everything in moderation, basically.

[black_son_of_gray]

For me, if I break down the meaning of "screen time":

Social Media: I dislike pretty much everything about it, from how much time it wastes, to how it makes me feel, to the ulterior motives of the companies themselves, to the business model, etc. So I avoid at all costs, have essentially no accounts.

YouTube: Could be considered social media, and I dislike everything about it mentioned above. There are, however, a few accounts that I find valuable, and it is a wonderful resource for super niche information (which I always seek out myself, rather than find algorithmically). If there is a non-YouTube source for something (e.g. a podcast, music), I use the non-YouTube version.

TV/Movies: I don't mind this screentime at all. Almost all of this screentime is experienced together with my partner. Streaming is fine (no worse than broadcast TV with the ads), but more often than not we find DVDs/Blu-rays at the library. What makes this more worthwhile to me is that my partner and I tend to discuss a lot of the storytelling we watch, and it is a way to engage and explore the other's interests/tastes. It is also self-limiting, as most of the stuff available doesn't interest us, and when we do find something we like--say, a TV series--it often takes weeks or, sometimes, years before we can gain access to the next season. We never watch something just to have something to watch.

News feeds: I used to scroll these a lot more, but I feel like traditional media e.g. newspapers have really declined. I get why. It is what it is. But I don't really find much wheat in the chaff anymore. News websites are, generally, atrocious. [Speculation: With the growing flood of AI bullshit/manipulation, there may be a real demand again in coming years for a physical newspaper written by actual humans. Ditto the major network broadcast news. The idea being, at least you know it's real? AI-based manipulation/propaganda is in part able to flood the zone because it is free. So maybe a pay-barrier is good even if only a filter against that?]

Work/Projects: I genuinely like this kind of screen time. For me, this means fiction writing, artsy stuff, designing my build projects (I use Inkscape to make scale drawings), genealogy research, and so on. This is all agency-driven and life-affirming.

Gaming: I have gone through gaming phases before, and find it generally benign--probably because I haven't spent any real time on games for over a decade. Mostly, I don't do it now simply because I have other things I would rather do first. There is also probably a difference between periodically being sucked into a game for a few months vs. chronically cycling through an endless stream (e.g. a "lifestyle" of gaming), but I've never had to make that distinction.

Reading: Personally, I find reading on a screen annoying, and in any case I do a ton of it when fiction writing (~3-4 hours a day currently). So I prefer physical books for all my reading otherwise. "But black_son_of_gray, what about all the brilliant web articles/substacks/blogs? Meh, I haven't been particularly impressed--and in any case, they are frustrating to find and in a format that annoys me. It isn't like I've exhausted all the physical books I want to read, so I just limit myself to the millions of other options available.

"The Internet": Ugh. Broadly, I just feel icky with most of the websites I would even think to visit. Enshittification is real and it frustrates me. I hate advertising with a passion, and that is pretty much the raison d'etre for much of what is out there. I dislike online shopping (much rather see something in a physical store), and in any case, I buy almost nothing anyway. What remains is mostly low-level user-generated slop that is just recycled slop from other websites posted as "content". Or porn. There was a time when I felt like I could 'browse' the Internet. Now, I only visit a handful of sites and am suspicious of the vast majority. I haven't clicked a random link in a really long time.

Summary: My resulting screen time is therefore the end result of those activities combined with how well I am avoiding the aspects I dislike and seeking the aspects I do like. Some days that is 1-2 hours, some days it is maybe as much as 8-10? Usually, somewhere in the middle.

what is it that bothers you about screens or staring too much at them?

I agree with much of what others have said above.

A couple of more abstract, human-level thoughts.
1) When I think of the most meaningful moments in my life, none of them happened in front of a screen. I take that as a sign.
2) I was recently thinking about the popular usage of the term "Luddite". Then I thought about the constantly online--people that pretty much spend their whole waking lives on the Internet. E.g. there are people who basically just watch YouTube/TikTok all day. As in, all day. They don't do anything else. This isn't a small chunk of people either. Whether this is simply a preference, whether they are just "living their best lives"--ultimately, I'm not here to decide what is "good" or "bad" for them. That said, I think maintaining flexibility is crucial from an adaptability standpoint. For example, navigation. My partner and I both know people than can't find their way anywhere unless a smartphone GPS tells them step-by-step directions. They cannot read a paper map (and they are in their forties). They don't have a clue as to the general layout of their own city (major roads, basic layouts of neighborhoods, etc.). We also know people who don't know how to use Google Maps to locate themselves, even though they always get lost and rely on others to rescue them. Ditto banking: people that don't know how to write a check vs. people that have never used an ATM. So, I am very intentional about knowing older AND newer ways, even if I have a preferred way. Sometimes I intentionally force myself to do the thing the way I'd rather not, because I think it is 'good for me'. That might mean sitting down in front of a screen for a few hours. I see "screen time" as being relevant here, considering the different interpretations of what that can mean. Some people cannot self-regulate without a screen. Some people have no physical competencies (because they stare at a screen all day). Etc. The danger I see with too little or too much screen time is the development of inflexibility, either through a lack of development altogether, through atrophy of existing skills, or over-reliance to the point of enfeeblement.
3) Most of the things I want to get better at do not inherently involve a screen. Again, I take that as a sign.

[7Wannabe5]

"White Noise" by Don DeLillo was originally published in 1985, very much pre-internet. From Wikipedia description of the novel:

Such a substitution of the sign for the reality is what Baudrillard calls a simulacrum, and in White Noise this is emblematically represented by "the most photographed barn in America"[25] which, according to Peter Knight, "has perhaps become the 'Most Discussed Scene in Postmodern Fiction'."[27] Such a postmodern understanding is expressed by Murray when he declares that "No one sees the barn," for "Once you've seen the signs about the barn, it becomes impossible to see the barn."[26] Created by photography and tourism, the barn is "a packaged perception, a 'sight'...not a 'thing'."[28] Because as Murray explains "we've read the signs, seen the people snapping the pictures," the barn is a cultural reality which has what Delillo calls an "aura". This aura, says Murray, prevents us from even speculating about what the "original" barn might have really been like because "We can't get outside the aura,"[26] and every photograph taken by the tourists only "reinforces the aura" of the barn. According to Frank Lentricchia, this loss of the referent, the dissolving of the object into its representations, lends the passage the status of a "primal scene", but one which is for Murray an occasion for celebration because it is a "technological transcendence"[28] and "We're part of the aura. We're here, we're now."[26

So, I think a good deal of that which humans are currently blaming on "the internet" or "screen time" is really just due to the progression of the Post-Modern era. And the only way out is through.

[birding]

My issue with screen time is mobile phone "Pick Ups". I don't want notifications on because it feels like they trigger a cortisol response, but then I end up picking up my phone constantly to see what I've missed. So I flip flop on notifications. Being hyper-available is part of what makes me good at my job. And it's what I described in my journal of being the asset in freecycling my whole condo in a weekend. Tackling the volume of messages from marketplace in real time and sifting through the flakes got it done.

Desktop screen time doesn't bother me as much - it feels more productive, but it's a bigger lift to go to the comp.

I never knew of FIRE until reading "Digital Minimalism", so ironically my challenge with screen time brought me circuitously to ERE (JLF's lukewarm(?) review in the praise for front end of Simple Path to Wealth).

[bookworm]

Excessive screen time seems to dull my senses. I feel less alive. Meditation makes me more aware of this shift because as things get more quiet, I notice more subtle sensations. I know the disembodiment creates problems for me if I keep it up for too long.

I also think my usage is still too passive/consumptive and tends to underactivate intuition/holistic functioning. Increased skill can be brought to this. Part of writing more is to rectify that and brings things in balance. Finding more complex content online and sticking with that (like Lemur mentioned going from Reddit->ERE forum) is also something I'm working on.

As I'm in my early 30s so I don't know the "before" as well as some people here. Growing up there was a lack of connection and some "helicopter" parenting. Suburban life. So the most interesting thing to do was on the screen, usually video games (also some coding and Linux admin). My career was centered on staring at a computer for 8+ hrs. If I went full Luddite today, past life energy represents a significant investment in the technosphere.

+1 to what bsog on memories. On reflection most of what I've enjoyed and found meaningful has been off screens: being with people, playing an instrument, being in nature, exploring locales, and reading (physical) books.

[Saltation]

It is to control what time I have left after work and other obligations to make sure I'm taking the time to journal, reflect and take care of the things that matter in my life. My current work schedule is ~50 hr/wk and I have multiple children in different sports. I also exercise daily and have simple household chores that need to be taken care of. Minimizing time spent on my **phone** is the easiest way to control the time left after running the rat race. I journal, budget, email etc. on my computer as much as possible because it is my best tool for documenting progress in the areas I'm interested in. When I decided to track my screen time I intentionally tracked smartphone time. The relationship I had with my phone was not desirable. I already use it for work and by putting limitations in place I could be much more productive in other areas of my life.

[ertyu]

To add: "I am limiting screen time" has also become an accepted social excuse. I have to be your friend on facebook (or wherever) bc social obligation but want to mute you cause i don't really want to be your friend even though i'm expected to? "sorry, i'm not on fb much, i'm limiting screen time." I want to maintain a presence on a forum which won't make me any money to drive engagement to the youtube videos that will, but I don't really care for these people beyond that? "Sorry, I'm limiting screen time." It's the new, "Sorry, I've been so so busy, you know how it is, but yeah, we should definitely hang out sometime."

ETA: needed disclaimer - obviously not all who say they are limiting screen time do this

[bostonimproper]

Insofar as I am trying to reduce screen time, it’s usually in an attempt to (1) focus more or my toddler or (2) stop pumping low quality media to my brain (“adjust my feed”). For example if I notice podcasts on my feed are becoming less information dense (i.e. am I pausing less to ruminate on points made and deeply engaging with the content, or does the “voice” of the host not one I want influencing my own) I will start unfollowing feeds, which naturally leads to less content and therefore less screen time unless/until I find replacement media.

[Henry]

Some things we need to do like drink. But it's better to drink water than Mountain Dew unless you're gearing up for an internecine ancient feudal blood line Appalachian 3:30 AM rumble in the parking lot of the abandoned coal mine where all your grandfathers got lung cancer. Is it necessary to watch TV? Probably not. Is it better to watch the two tigers rip the shit out of an Ostrich than two Beverly Hills divorcees gang up on another Beverly Hills Divorcees on TV? I don't know that one either. Is screen time necessary. Yes nowadays. The issue is on the internet I can toggle between the tigers and the bimbos at heart pounding speeds. So I think people jump to quantity of screen time before thinking about quality of screen time which I think is a real thing. I have benefited from screen time but screen time is a medium that makes quality screen time difficult. I listen to high end lectures on the bullshit I like such as the issues with Thomas Aquinas theology and robe taxis. But the thing is, if I can find a video of people getting into fights at Disney land in front of their bawling children with their Mickey Mouse ears on, I'm bailing on that shit because in all seriousness there is nothing I enjoy more than watching people brawling at Disney Land in front of their bawling children with their Mickey Mouse ears on. I'd actually go to Disneyland if they the brawls part of the entertainment package. I wouldn't get on any of that Pirates of Caribbean shit. I'd just watch the brawls started by people cutting in lines at that Pirate of Caribbean shit. But I know I would pay better attention to the brawls if I was actually at Disneyland watching the brawls in real time than watching the brawls on the screen. So there's that real concern.

[Stasher]

I am not concerned at all with my "screen time" and personally haven't used that term anywhere myself but I absolutely have radically changed my "social media".

I have completely dropped my facebook use off a cliff, it still remains for a few reasons but I dropped it to one day a week to check a couple climbing, mountaineering and gravelbike/mtb groups as that is where the forums went (FB Groups) as well as some local govt/business accounts I need to check on. I also ended all paid advertising on Meta for our biz, it is too toxic of a place and I don't want top contribute to it (also why I divested from the MAG7)

I archived my X account cuz ya all things Elon and the toxic echo chamber it is, completely unhealthy.

I use the story function on Instagram to connect with my local friends almost like a messaging app and keep up with each other on our running, riding, racing, climbing, backpacking etc

I use Youtube every night as my television watching for my subscription content which is Enduro & Moto racing, MTB racing, Cycling News, Athlete Vlogs, Urban Planning, and then a mix of some minimal living and alternative living accounts with the usual mix of homesteader types.

I use Bluesky for keeping up with local journalists who I know IRL as the best way to engage on local/regional issues plus regional urban planners and the cycling community is generally there.

Otherwise, the bulk of my morning reading and "screen time" is ERE and MMM forums as I use them to keep myself away from social media

I really hate using my smartphone when I am around people and for anything "social" as I think it is one of the worst things for us. This is the screen time I need to be mindful of. My phone is my tool for training, sports, navigation, music and photos primarily and hope to keep it that way. I have all notifications turned off and it locks me out from 10pm to 7am also in sleep mode.

[chenda]

Never be afraid to switch off your phone.