Thanks for the well wishes.
There's potential for neuronormative bias when valuing training of skill sets like these. For a neurotypical person, yes, losing interoceptive tools would be devastating. Missing them is a critical problem to solve. Additionally - my data driven approach would be constricting and unsustainable.
Yet I've never had the tools. So there's nothing to miss. Meanwhile my autism loves rules, lists, rituals, and numbers. The data driven approach feels actively rewarding. It also gets results. So that's what I lean into.
Example - my hunger signals simply don't work. I use my fitness pal to track my macros. When I want to change body size, I change the macros. That simple. I'm happy to eat the same meals every day, so the overhead is quite low. Something like measuring my yogurt on the food scale, every morning, doesn't bother me at all.
There's a form of therapy that offers tools for learning the skills - DBT. As an example, alexithymia can be improved via practice with a sensation / feeling wheel:
https://lindsaybraman.com/emotion-sensa ... ing-wheel/
I've observed a bias towards favoring such development with non-autistic mental health professionals. They emphasize the ability to simulate neurotypical wiring. Only, the learning suffers from regression to type II thinking. The overhead never goes away.
Autistic providers tend to dismiss such development as low priority. They'll favor strategies to scaffold the atypical wiring instead. Lean into the strengths of what operates differently. My experience has been that's much more fruitful.
What I Spend
Re: What I Spend
I've done my best to avoid learning how to beat the tracker. I do think that'd break the game for me. I'm especially cautious around my chemical interventions, as they could induce an "unsupported" state. Thus far, I believe results are both consistent and reasonably accurate. There's correlation between the data and how I feel. I find it actionable, while knowing it's likely imprecise.
The last Fitbit I had was a Charge 2. I could not get reliable feedback from it. I think the technology has improved significantly.
My answer is easy. I find this interesting and fun. The body is such a cool toy. I prioritize my fitness hobbies because they also have health benefits. But if one nets out the time spent, relative to lifespan extended, I would not come out ahead. That's the dirty secret around many lifestyle interventions. The time invested has to be rewarding, or the ROI generally does not add up.
Finding joy in one's movement and food feels highly attainable though.
The grip strength / longevity thing has been around for a long time. For those of use who have nerded out on hand grippers, it's a fun metric. Back when I could close the Ironmind #2, I'd get solid scores. These days I'm down to a couple reps on the #1 twice a week, but I bet I'd still do alright.
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IlliniDave
- Posts: 4176
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:46 pm
Re: What I Spend
I had gotten pretty behind in keeping up with things in your journal.
It's cool to have some company in the quest for better sleep. Some observations on what I picked up from your last few weeks of entries (admittedly I might have missed a thing or two).
I don't have a lot of success trying to do self-directed mindfulness-style meditation immediately before sleep. Sometimes it seems to help, but often it seems to kind of supercharge my brain and is responsible for nearly all of the occasions where I have a relatively difficult time getting to sleep initially. For me, that means 20-30 minutes or more of latency. No idea why that is other than maybe I do something wrong. Listening to a guided meditation usually works somewhat better, especially one that's intended for the transition to sleep.
My tried-and-true method/routine is to read for a few minutes, just popular novels intended purely as entertainment. Nothing to thinky or technical.
Once the book is put down though, rather than trying to clear my mind of thoughts, I have better luck planting thoughts in my head
The single thing I have the most success with, especially when I wake up 2-4 hours or sooner after falling asleep, is doing my own riff on a gratitude exercise. The primary one is sort of a strange one. I picture myself in the far, far north in the dead of winter, snowed into a small cabin with more than enough wood and food to see me through the winter. "Visualizing'" the situation is an important part of it. So there's simultaneous awareness of immersion in a somewhat hostile environment while having no reason to be concerned, ticking off a list of items: I'm warm, I'm dry, I'm fed, I have [ list of everything necessary to stay that way for as long as I need]. As a variation I sometimes bring that into the real world--I have a place to live, plenty of resources (despite the list of real and imagined financial catastrophes I've lived through), decent health--just an improvised list of whatever comes to mind on the positive side of the ledger in my life, even stuff that's arguably a bit trivial.
I have a tendency to be an anxious person, although what I'd call a high functioning one. Through the day I tend to focus on what needs improving, what's left undone, what needs to be prepared for, etc. So those visualization tricks are just a way to remind me that worries (often real and legitimate) are only part of the story. Maybe it could be distilled into telling myself, "for now, I'm safe." I also combine it with simple controlled deep breathing (the opposite of the fight or flight sympathetic nervous system response). It sounds corny, and it doesn't always work, but it helps more often than not. Based on recent reading and listening I've done, the two pronged approach of the "I'm safe" mantra in whichever form and slow, deep breathing combine to clear a space for my parasympathetic processes to take the helm. None of that seems to help with my tendency to become fully wide awake after 6-6.5 hr of sleep (sometimes a bit less) but it does help with issues that resemble insomnia.
It's cool to have some company in the quest for better sleep. Some observations on what I picked up from your last few weeks of entries (admittedly I might have missed a thing or two).
I don't have a lot of success trying to do self-directed mindfulness-style meditation immediately before sleep. Sometimes it seems to help, but often it seems to kind of supercharge my brain and is responsible for nearly all of the occasions where I have a relatively difficult time getting to sleep initially. For me, that means 20-30 minutes or more of latency. No idea why that is other than maybe I do something wrong. Listening to a guided meditation usually works somewhat better, especially one that's intended for the transition to sleep.
My tried-and-true method/routine is to read for a few minutes, just popular novels intended purely as entertainment. Nothing to thinky or technical.
Once the book is put down though, rather than trying to clear my mind of thoughts, I have better luck planting thoughts in my head
The single thing I have the most success with, especially when I wake up 2-4 hours or sooner after falling asleep, is doing my own riff on a gratitude exercise. The primary one is sort of a strange one. I picture myself in the far, far north in the dead of winter, snowed into a small cabin with more than enough wood and food to see me through the winter. "Visualizing'" the situation is an important part of it. So there's simultaneous awareness of immersion in a somewhat hostile environment while having no reason to be concerned, ticking off a list of items: I'm warm, I'm dry, I'm fed, I have [ list of everything necessary to stay that way for as long as I need]. As a variation I sometimes bring that into the real world--I have a place to live, plenty of resources (despite the list of real and imagined financial catastrophes I've lived through), decent health--just an improvised list of whatever comes to mind on the positive side of the ledger in my life, even stuff that's arguably a bit trivial.
I have a tendency to be an anxious person, although what I'd call a high functioning one. Through the day I tend to focus on what needs improving, what's left undone, what needs to be prepared for, etc. So those visualization tricks are just a way to remind me that worries (often real and legitimate) are only part of the story. Maybe it could be distilled into telling myself, "for now, I'm safe." I also combine it with simple controlled deep breathing (the opposite of the fight or flight sympathetic nervous system response). It sounds corny, and it doesn't always work, but it helps more often than not. Based on recent reading and listening I've done, the two pronged approach of the "I'm safe" mantra in whichever form and slow, deep breathing combine to clear a space for my parasympathetic processes to take the helm. None of that seems to help with my tendency to become fully wide awake after 6-6.5 hr of sleep (sometimes a bit less) but it does help with issues that resemble insomnia.
Re: What I Spend
The gratitude thing is a good idea. I'm gonna commit to a week with no bedroom phone, see where it takes me.
Maybe the watch can do a guided meditation. I've historically bounced off them, but no harm in another try.
I've got a lifting book on order at the library. I already read the ebook. Maybe it can add.
First night back on the magnesium yesterday. Sleep score was down about ten points. But I also played an exciting racing game from 6-8....
Maybe the watch can do a guided meditation. I've historically bounced off them, but no harm in another try.
I've got a lifting book on order at the library. I already read the ebook. Maybe it can add.
First night back on the magnesium yesterday. Sleep score was down about ten points. But I also played an exciting racing game from 6-8....
Re: What I Spend
Sleep experiments continue.
The week without a phone in my bedroom didn't work. I had some nights without. I tried the gratitude thing. They weren't better. Ironically - once I start counting what's good, I escalate into what could be better. Either for myself or others. There's no shortage of positive thoughts, but that only gets my brain zooming. Anyway, without a benefit from abstaining, the phone wandered back in.
Warmer weather set in, so I also tried sleeping with a fan in the window. That was an absolute fail. Some of the worst rest I've had in a long time. I really love the idea. Fresh air. Cooler temperatures. A little bit of nature. In practice it does not suit me. We ticked the AC on, and I slept like a rock.
The lifting book correlates with some of my best nights. It's sufficiently boring to wind me down, but enjoyable enough to deter the phone. I got a 92 last night, including almost 2 hours of both REM and deep sleep. I was also lights off by 10, which tends to offer better scores.
It's hard to say if the magnesium is doing anything. Certainly it's not having a strong impact either way. I bought about 2 months worth. Guess the test is when it runs out. Will I miss it?
Currently my most effective daily interventions are:
1. Heading up to prepare for bed early. Like 8pm.
2. Reading familiar non-fiction, on paper, before lights off.
Both offer 2nd order benefits. Waking early enough for low UV trail time. Learning new things. The extra rewards help.
One day per week, I'm having a 10mg cannabis gummy early and dedicating myself to relaxation. I sleep well that night. Gonna try 5mg this week, check my minimum effective dose.
The week without a phone in my bedroom didn't work. I had some nights without. I tried the gratitude thing. They weren't better. Ironically - once I start counting what's good, I escalate into what could be better. Either for myself or others. There's no shortage of positive thoughts, but that only gets my brain zooming. Anyway, without a benefit from abstaining, the phone wandered back in.
Warmer weather set in, so I also tried sleeping with a fan in the window. That was an absolute fail. Some of the worst rest I've had in a long time. I really love the idea. Fresh air. Cooler temperatures. A little bit of nature. In practice it does not suit me. We ticked the AC on, and I slept like a rock.
The lifting book correlates with some of my best nights. It's sufficiently boring to wind me down, but enjoyable enough to deter the phone. I got a 92 last night, including almost 2 hours of both REM and deep sleep. I was also lights off by 10, which tends to offer better scores.
It's hard to say if the magnesium is doing anything. Certainly it's not having a strong impact either way. I bought about 2 months worth. Guess the test is when it runs out. Will I miss it?
Currently my most effective daily interventions are:
1. Heading up to prepare for bed early. Like 8pm.
2. Reading familiar non-fiction, on paper, before lights off.
Both offer 2nd order benefits. Waking early enough for low UV trail time. Learning new things. The extra rewards help.
One day per week, I'm having a 10mg cannabis gummy early and dedicating myself to relaxation. I sleep well that night. Gonna try 5mg this week, check my minimum effective dose.
Re: What I Spend
Try combining zinc and magnesium (ZMA). They complement each other and improve my sleep. However, they often cause intense dreams, which I sometimes find a meh side effect.
Re: What I Spend
I'll throw the idea in queue, for discussion with the psychiatrist. She's helping me juggle a variety of substances. The magnesium is very specifically magnesium glycinate, 30 minutes before bed.
Got another 92 on the sleep score last night. Little later to bed, still did about 30 minutes of reading. It's not fast since my eyes suck, but that might be a feature. Lifting went great this morning.
Re: What I Spend
First CSA pickup. Through a local non-profit, growing food in very idealistic granola ways. About twice as expensive as comparable from the store:
$57 for mixed greens, bok choy, spinach, pea micro greens, radish micro greens, turnips. From the perspective of understanding what grows locally, supporting a cool organization, and trying some new foods, it's a win.
I also find myself appreciative of the modern wonder that's conventional produce via Aldi. I could match the volume for under $20.
We've got thirteen more pick-ups over the year, all paid up front. Once the novelty of a season has been experienced, I wonder if we'll do it again.
I did sign up for a whole foods bakery bag from too good to go that afternoon. Gotta bring the world back into balance.
$57 for mixed greens, bok choy, spinach, pea micro greens, radish micro greens, turnips. From the perspective of understanding what grows locally, supporting a cool organization, and trying some new foods, it's a win.
I also find myself appreciative of the modern wonder that's conventional produce via Aldi. I could match the volume for under $20.
We've got thirteen more pick-ups over the year, all paid up front. Once the novelty of a season has been experienced, I wonder if we'll do it again.
I did sign up for a whole foods bakery bag from too good to go that afternoon. Gotta bring the world back into balance.
Re: What I Spend
Continuing the sleep work:
1. A 5mg cannabis gummy was plenty for my day of restoration. There's a lot of temptation to make the day more, so I appreciate the altered state.
2. News came out linking first generation antihistamine use to dementia. A good reminder why hydroxyzine as a sleep aid, needs to be infrequent and a minimum effective dose. I'm doing 10mg maybe twice a month. I think that beats an anxiety ridden night of terrible sleep.
3. It's time to experiment with melatonin. Similar to the hydroxyzine, it will not be every day use. Rather, on days where I see myself trending towards a late bed time, I'll take 1mg 1-2 hours before I'd like to sleep. I imagine preferred timing and dosage will become evident quickly.
4. The nodpod helped me to an extra 1-2 hours of sleep, several times over the past week. Even some REM cycles. What a great invention.
5. Reading for 30-60 minutes before lights out remains my best intervention.
The CSA produce has been good. I especially enjoyed the radish microgreens, though after pricing them at whole foods, I won't be a habitual consumer. My portion of the turnips is gone, including the greens. Having never bought turnips, I see that as a victory. My default bitter green is Kale, since that's what Aldi sells. I could happily do some turnips now though. Makes me a little better equipped to eat whatever is available.
My media queue is down to a handful of new books, along with a dozen I'd like to revisit. The year started at over 500. I dramatically changed my standard. It's cool to see the payoff. Once the last few are clear, I'll integrate media into my general projects queue. A book is simply another allocation of energy, after all:
My current deep dives are improving sleep quality and lifting. Those are approaching a plateau. I've started considering what is next. A challenge, is my projects list was populated over years. Some ideas are invalid, because the business closed (ie rowing gym). More importantly, since then, I've grown and changed as a person.
Often what I've captured represents a consumptive experience. Taking yoga as an example:
Kitten Yoga at the Animal Shelter - $35/per
Aerial Yoga Class - $25/per
Baptiste Yoga at a new studio - $20/per or $100/month
Free Summer Yoga at the Village Center
All of those would be fun, but that's the extent. I have zero expectation for, or really interest in, growing my yoga practice. So the question becomes - is that where to put my time? Who am I trying to connect with? Why?
Leaning into animal shelter work? Sure, then kitten yoga makes sense. Planning to setup a home aerial yoga practice? Class first! Want to teach? Yes, settle in at a new studio. Commit my social circle to adding new yoga folks? Free community yoga is perfect.
But if I'm showing up for the hour, then checking an experience off my list, I probably missed the mark. All that does is stretch my attention even thinner. With the structure of my current projects list, there's an impossible volume of tasks. I can only tackle this with a consumptive attitude:
So, pruning will be in order. I need to release attachments, prioritize values and invest in systemic alignment.
Maybe it's biking more, getting something regular with my dad. I'm also watching the Switch 2 launch, even though that aligns with absolutely nothing. My absence of productive work is notable. As well as the lack of in person connection, beyond my tightest social circle.
But, I'm autistic and retired. So maybe video games it is.
1. A 5mg cannabis gummy was plenty for my day of restoration. There's a lot of temptation to make the day more, so I appreciate the altered state.
2. News came out linking first generation antihistamine use to dementia. A good reminder why hydroxyzine as a sleep aid, needs to be infrequent and a minimum effective dose. I'm doing 10mg maybe twice a month. I think that beats an anxiety ridden night of terrible sleep.
3. It's time to experiment with melatonin. Similar to the hydroxyzine, it will not be every day use. Rather, on days where I see myself trending towards a late bed time, I'll take 1mg 1-2 hours before I'd like to sleep. I imagine preferred timing and dosage will become evident quickly.
4. The nodpod helped me to an extra 1-2 hours of sleep, several times over the past week. Even some REM cycles. What a great invention.
5. Reading for 30-60 minutes before lights out remains my best intervention.
The CSA produce has been good. I especially enjoyed the radish microgreens, though after pricing them at whole foods, I won't be a habitual consumer. My portion of the turnips is gone, including the greens. Having never bought turnips, I see that as a victory. My default bitter green is Kale, since that's what Aldi sells. I could happily do some turnips now though. Makes me a little better equipped to eat whatever is available.
My media queue is down to a handful of new books, along with a dozen I'd like to revisit. The year started at over 500. I dramatically changed my standard. It's cool to see the payoff. Once the last few are clear, I'll integrate media into my general projects queue. A book is simply another allocation of energy, after all:
My current deep dives are improving sleep quality and lifting. Those are approaching a plateau. I've started considering what is next. A challenge, is my projects list was populated over years. Some ideas are invalid, because the business closed (ie rowing gym). More importantly, since then, I've grown and changed as a person.
Often what I've captured represents a consumptive experience. Taking yoga as an example:
Kitten Yoga at the Animal Shelter - $35/per
Aerial Yoga Class - $25/per
Baptiste Yoga at a new studio - $20/per or $100/month
Free Summer Yoga at the Village Center
All of those would be fun, but that's the extent. I have zero expectation for, or really interest in, growing my yoga practice. So the question becomes - is that where to put my time? Who am I trying to connect with? Why?
Leaning into animal shelter work? Sure, then kitten yoga makes sense. Planning to setup a home aerial yoga practice? Class first! Want to teach? Yes, settle in at a new studio. Commit my social circle to adding new yoga folks? Free community yoga is perfect.
But if I'm showing up for the hour, then checking an experience off my list, I probably missed the mark. All that does is stretch my attention even thinner. With the structure of my current projects list, there's an impossible volume of tasks. I can only tackle this with a consumptive attitude:
So, pruning will be in order. I need to release attachments, prioritize values and invest in systemic alignment.
Maybe it's biking more, getting something regular with my dad. I'm also watching the Switch 2 launch, even though that aligns with absolutely nothing. My absence of productive work is notable. As well as the lack of in person connection, beyond my tightest social circle.
But, I'm autistic and retired. So maybe video games it is.
Re: What I Spend
I mean, the kitten yoga has kittens
joke aside--
which attachments would you be releasing?
the word "consumptive" shows up a lot: what is important at this stage about experiences NOT being consumptive? or is it that they're not *supposed* to be?
what are the values you wish to be aligning with here?
would any of these experiences be a way to hit at the anxiety from the anxiety-ridden sleep? what's that about?
and a comment: you're talking about experiences being aligned and "making sense" in some wider framework, but none of the things you've mentioned sound like anything you particularly sound like you WANT to be doing, are excited/drawn to doing, etc. So how about instead pursuing "stoke"? C'mon, man, what sort of autist are you, don't you have a special interest -- joking but only slightly. What right now is pulling you for its own sake, just bc being engaged in it is absorbing in a nice way?
Re: What I Spend
@ertyu - good questions, I'll need to make time for a response.
Today I gave biking to the gym another try. My wife had the car, and I was curious. Result: While we're paying for a car, living where we do, it just doesn't make sense.
Cutting across suburbia makes for a mediocre bike ride. Between traffic and pedestrians, I can't stay in zone 2, even though I'm almost entirely on bike paths. Beating the sun means facing rush hour traffic, at least one way. Since I don't want to risk my life over it, that massively constrains my viable paths and destinations.
I ended up at a park district gym, which offers a lot to be desired in terms of training culture. So many people putting in minimum effort, or seniors there purely to socialize. I'm glad they have the outlet, but it's not what I'm seeking. I do better lifting alone in my basement.
In other words, saving an easy 20 minutes in the car, turns into a sucky hour on the bike and a sub par gym session. I'd much rather drive to the good place, and get high quality zone 2 minutes, in less time.
If I later go out just to ride, I can use a way better trail, on a way better bike. It's a luxury worth paying for. Owning the beater bike doesn't even make sense, especially given my disdain for maintaining them.
I need to reconsider the biking aspect of my projects list. Much of it relates to being a better bike commuter. But my area makes that crummy.
Today I gave biking to the gym another try. My wife had the car, and I was curious. Result: While we're paying for a car, living where we do, it just doesn't make sense.
Cutting across suburbia makes for a mediocre bike ride. Between traffic and pedestrians, I can't stay in zone 2, even though I'm almost entirely on bike paths. Beating the sun means facing rush hour traffic, at least one way. Since I don't want to risk my life over it, that massively constrains my viable paths and destinations.
I ended up at a park district gym, which offers a lot to be desired in terms of training culture. So many people putting in minimum effort, or seniors there purely to socialize. I'm glad they have the outlet, but it's not what I'm seeking. I do better lifting alone in my basement.
In other words, saving an easy 20 minutes in the car, turns into a sucky hour on the bike and a sub par gym session. I'd much rather drive to the good place, and get high quality zone 2 minutes, in less time.
If I later go out just to ride, I can use a way better trail, on a way better bike. It's a luxury worth paying for. Owning the beater bike doesn't even make sense, especially given my disdain for maintaining them.
I need to reconsider the biking aspect of my projects list. Much of it relates to being a better bike commuter. But my area makes that crummy.
Re: What I Spend
Agreed, if you put yourself into a car dependent situation, already own the house and have a low interest rate, there’s no situation where doing the bike thing makes sense versus owning a car. You don’t even need to bring bike maintenance into it. People do not drive well enough around cyclists for it to be worth it.
Even living in two of the best cycling cities in the country for ~12 years, I got hit once (not my fault at all, dumb driver ran a stop sign) and caused several years of recovery worth of tendon / ligament damage. Monetary cost wasn’t paid by me because driver was obviously in the wrong, but was probably ~10k after everything was done. Idk what price I put on my time and pain, but it’s greater than the cost of owning a car. I also know >5 people who got hit and had broken bones / etc while riding in Boulder (out of a circle of people who all owned cars and just cycled to groceries here and there), and one who got hit in a crosswalk and suffered permanent brain damage in Fort Collins co which is also a fantastic cycling city.
All anecdotal, but there is a very nonlinear payoff versus cost to cycling anywhere cars drive 30+ mph, where the payoff is getting somewhere with ok exercise, and the potential cost of getting hit by a car is brutal and never worth it.
Even living in two of the best cycling cities in the country for ~12 years, I got hit once (not my fault at all, dumb driver ran a stop sign) and caused several years of recovery worth of tendon / ligament damage. Monetary cost wasn’t paid by me because driver was obviously in the wrong, but was probably ~10k after everything was done. Idk what price I put on my time and pain, but it’s greater than the cost of owning a car. I also know >5 people who got hit and had broken bones / etc while riding in Boulder (out of a circle of people who all owned cars and just cycled to groceries here and there), and one who got hit in a crosswalk and suffered permanent brain damage in Fort Collins co which is also a fantastic cycling city.
All anecdotal, but there is a very nonlinear payoff versus cost to cycling anywhere cars drive 30+ mph, where the payoff is getting somewhere with ok exercise, and the potential cost of getting hit by a car is brutal and never worth it.
Re: What I Spend
I’m interested in your response also. It’s a question I’ve been asking myself - what on my menu of options is there because I’ve decided it “fits” and “is aligned” with my (???) “values”? What isn’t on my menu purely because I’ve decided “people like me don’t do x” but I actually am stoked about it? I’ve been trying to think of stuff that I actually enjoy or might enjoy but assume I can’t/shouldn’t do for totally fake unconscious reasons.
Re: What I Spend
With spotty infrastructure in my new city and drivers who are less adjusted to cyclists, I'm opting out for daily errands. For me, the tail risk just doesn't seem to be worth it.
If I don't take the car, I can walk or run (meditation/reflection/plant ID/cardio/rucking) for groceries instead. I don't consider it time wasted. It helps that things are somewhat close for me, and there are peaceful routes towards key locations. I consider my bike to be more recreational at this point. Doing section hikes and using the bike as the second "vehicle" is good fun.
The situation would be different I think if I lived in a less densely populated area with less dense/more considerate traffic (thinking of a quiet NE town because that's my region). I'd also consider it in an affluent commuter suburb like where I lived before.
If I don't take the car, I can walk or run (meditation/reflection/plant ID/cardio/rucking) for groceries instead. I don't consider it time wasted. It helps that things are somewhat close for me, and there are peaceful routes towards key locations. I consider my bike to be more recreational at this point. Doing section hikes and using the bike as the second "vehicle" is good fun.
The situation would be different I think if I lived in a less densely populated area with less dense/more considerate traffic (thinking of a quiet NE town because that's my region). I'd also consider it in an affluent commuter suburb like where I lived before.
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jacob
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Re: What I Spend
Disclaimer: I avoid cycling where I live.
My reasons are not so much other drivers but that the road infrastructure is not set up for cycling. My greatest worry is actually potholes which are ubiquitous (thanks to a wide annual temperature cycle) followed by bad road design. The road may suddenly remove the shoulder during an underpass. Inconsiderate parking jobs may block most of the road leaving only a small corridor in the middle of the street with increasingly large SUVs filling in from both sides.
I had no problem riding around in California (generous shoulders with much less street parking), but even there there would be roads I wouldn't go to. Cars can usually deal with a cyclist. The problem is if cars are dealing with a cyclist AND many other cars. For that reason, multi-lane roads are a no-no. Unfortunately, because it is the main throughway by car, those familiar hellscapes are likely the first ones driverswannabecyclysts try out. Then they get overwhelmed and never try again. Going by bike may require a +25% detour in distance to avoid heavy traffic. This likely will involve some scouting both on maps, google street view, and in reality. Roads look different over a set of handlebars compared to through a windscreen.
Unfortunately cyclists have some of the same problems as wildlife. Lots of good intentions building bike-friendly streets or areas. Zero consideration for actually connecting them together in any obvious way. It may look like there are bike lanes all the way to the destination except at some point there's a 3-lane intersection with no pedestrian option that has to be crossed but shouldn't.
I do think cyclists share some of blame for increasing their risk. Most cyclists unfortunately seem to have a rather ... uh .. casual attitude towards stop signs and red lights (some drivers do too, but I see very few cyclists bothering to actually stop at a stop sign). Many routinely break (or simply don't know) the rules of the road and ride on the sidewalk, wrong side of the street, use pedestrian crossing without getting off, etc. Another factor is that many cyclists lack the strength to out-accelerate cars. Getting across an intersection from a full stop is much safer if you can out-accelerate the cars and clear it before cars get even half-way. I can do it. DW can't. This makes a big difference in the comfort level.
And commuting is definitely not the place to focus on training modalities. First get out of traffic to semi-rural areas. Then focus on RPM or whatever.
My reasons are not so much other drivers but that the road infrastructure is not set up for cycling. My greatest worry is actually potholes which are ubiquitous (thanks to a wide annual temperature cycle) followed by bad road design. The road may suddenly remove the shoulder during an underpass. Inconsiderate parking jobs may block most of the road leaving only a small corridor in the middle of the street with increasingly large SUVs filling in from both sides.
I had no problem riding around in California (generous shoulders with much less street parking), but even there there would be roads I wouldn't go to. Cars can usually deal with a cyclist. The problem is if cars are dealing with a cyclist AND many other cars. For that reason, multi-lane roads are a no-no. Unfortunately, because it is the main throughway by car, those familiar hellscapes are likely the first ones driverswannabecyclysts try out. Then they get overwhelmed and never try again. Going by bike may require a +25% detour in distance to avoid heavy traffic. This likely will involve some scouting both on maps, google street view, and in reality. Roads look different over a set of handlebars compared to through a windscreen.
Unfortunately cyclists have some of the same problems as wildlife. Lots of good intentions building bike-friendly streets or areas. Zero consideration for actually connecting them together in any obvious way. It may look like there are bike lanes all the way to the destination except at some point there's a 3-lane intersection with no pedestrian option that has to be crossed but shouldn't.
I do think cyclists share some of blame for increasing their risk. Most cyclists unfortunately seem to have a rather ... uh .. casual attitude towards stop signs and red lights (some drivers do too, but I see very few cyclists bothering to actually stop at a stop sign). Many routinely break (or simply don't know) the rules of the road and ride on the sidewalk, wrong side of the street, use pedestrian crossing without getting off, etc. Another factor is that many cyclists lack the strength to out-accelerate cars. Getting across an intersection from a full stop is much safer if you can out-accelerate the cars and clear it before cars get even half-way. I can do it. DW can't. This makes a big difference in the comfort level.
And commuting is definitely not the place to focus on training modalities. First get out of traffic to semi-rural areas. Then focus on RPM or whatever.
Re: What I Spend
A fair bit of North American car-centric responses here that continue to enable cars as the chosen default in all scenarios. I'm sure that most people here aren't interested in it but with a common theme in the forums on urban planning as well as the environment, may I offer up the podcast War on Cars and/or the amazing work Jason Slaughter does with the Not Just Bikes youtube channel.
https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes
Link to the above podcast episide on War on Cars
https://thewaroncars.org/2025/03/25/tea ... professor/
Don't give up on the going by bike Scott2, once you get the bike, routes, confidence and habits formed you won't look back and will be happy you persevered.
https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes
The study, “Why Do Cars Get a Free Ride? The social-ecological roots of motonormativity,” takes a look at a phenomenon where people accept the harms and risks associated with cars in ways they wouldn’t in other areas of life and asks where motonormativity comes from and examines the ways in which it manifests itself differently depending on factors such as where a person lives or their perceptions of the beliefs of their friends and family. The results are fascinating.
Link to the above podcast episide on War on Cars
https://thewaroncars.org/2025/03/25/tea ... professor/
Don't give up on the going by bike Scott2, once you get the bike, routes, confidence and habits formed you won't look back and will be happy you persevered.
Re: What I Spend
@Slevin - Yes, when we bought our home, the choice on a car was made. Even though we didn't have one at the time. Coming up on 20 years here, the bar has also shifted. We have more traffic (yay economic growth) and drivers are more distracted (yay phones). I also think the UV intensity has increased, while air quality has gone down. We're only starting Summer, but mid-day sun is already hitting 10 on the UV index. I don't want to habitually ride in that.
@bookworm - It's the cumulative risk that deters me from certain paths. A 1 in 500 chance, if I do the ride 4 times a week, becomes unacceptable. The rush hour consideration is key. There's a 30 minute bike to my good gym, but a couple roads I'm not touching in the 7-9am window.
@jacob - Choke points created by infrastructure feeding Chicago are the problem. Getting to my preferred gym with minimal risk, is 45 minutes each way. Opposed to 10 in the car. If I biked that drive at 6am on a Sunday morning? I could make it in 15 minutes. Everything falls apart with distracted drivers in the equation. They don't expect bikes, and it becomes self-reinforcing.
@Stasher - Unfortunately, the infrastructure feeding Chicago is only getting harder to cross. Were I north or south of my nearest choke points, options would be substantially better. Though outside of places kids go (park district, library, etc.) bike racks are absent. Hence the beater bike.
My area does have a wealth of recreational biking options, thanks to the forest preserves. Getting in there at dawn, especially during the week, offers great riding conditions. That's the role I think a bike plays long term, for me. I can reach dozens of miles of trails. They can eventually let me drop out at desirable places, it's just not time efficient.
I love the idea of bike as transport. Ostensibly so do my neighbors. That's why we have so many trails and paths. But it hasn't scaled. The high walk score spaces are affluent commuter suburbs, like bookworm describes. But those home prices are 1.5-3x my own.
@bookworm - It's the cumulative risk that deters me from certain paths. A 1 in 500 chance, if I do the ride 4 times a week, becomes unacceptable. The rush hour consideration is key. There's a 30 minute bike to my good gym, but a couple roads I'm not touching in the 7-9am window.
@jacob - Choke points created by infrastructure feeding Chicago are the problem. Getting to my preferred gym with minimal risk, is 45 minutes each way. Opposed to 10 in the car. If I biked that drive at 6am on a Sunday morning? I could make it in 15 minutes. Everything falls apart with distracted drivers in the equation. They don't expect bikes, and it becomes self-reinforcing.
@Stasher - Unfortunately, the infrastructure feeding Chicago is only getting harder to cross. Were I north or south of my nearest choke points, options would be substantially better. Though outside of places kids go (park district, library, etc.) bike racks are absent. Hence the beater bike.
My area does have a wealth of recreational biking options, thanks to the forest preserves. Getting in there at dawn, especially during the week, offers great riding conditions. That's the role I think a bike plays long term, for me. I can reach dozens of miles of trails. They can eventually let me drop out at desirable places, it's just not time efficient.
I love the idea of bike as transport. Ostensibly so do my neighbors. That's why we have so many trails and paths. But it hasn't scaled. The high walk score spaces are affluent commuter suburbs, like bookworm describes. But those home prices are 1.5-3x my own.
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suomalainen
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:49 pm
Re: What I Spend
Road biking just isn’t worth it. In my circle of bike friends and friends-of-friends, two guys have died and there have been numerous non-fatal collisions, including one for myself. I ride to the gym here in Houston, either on the powerline trail crossing 4 commercial driveways and 1 road or down the road with 4 stop signs and one set of speed bumps. There is a constant risk of getting hit. I only feel “safe” due to the speeds involved, but getting hit again is a matter of when, not if. Give up, and don’t force your wife to look forward to visiting your grave.
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Western Red Cedar
- Posts: 1519
- Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:15 pm
Re: What I Spend
Fascinating discussion. Having lived in a few areas with poor connections or cycling infrastructure, I know how difficult it is to travel by bike when engineers are only considering cars.
That was 15 years ago and I'm appreciating many of those improvements now. This type of volunteer work would be a worthwhile activity for anyone reading these forums. Cities need systems thinkers to actually build networks.
My main takeaway from all of this is gratitude for having a pretty good bike network with options for separated lanes and trails where I live. I briefly interacted with my city's bicycle advisory board while I was in graduate school and everyone on the board was extremely intelligent and avid cyclists. The developed a plan that prioritized a connected network with multiple options for separated bike lanes or rail-to-trails. They knew that separated lanes were more expensive, but important for providing a sense of safety for average cyclists.jacob wrote: ↑Sat May 31, 2025 8:12 amUnfortunately cyclists have some of the same problems as wildlife. Lots of good intentions building bike-friendly streets or areas. Zero consideration for actually connecting them together in any obvious way. It may look like there are bike lanes all the way to the destination except at some point there's a 3-lane intersection with no pedestrian option that has to be crossed but shouldn't.
That was 15 years ago and I'm appreciating many of those improvements now. This type of volunteer work would be a worthwhile activity for anyone reading these forums. Cities need systems thinkers to actually build networks.
Re: What I Spend
The Level Green city in which I reside recently added many bike lanes by taking away car lanes on some streets. This has caused a good deal of consternation and complaints from the car drivers when they find themselves stuck in traffic with no bicyclists in sight. Comments I have heard, 'It's stupid to do this here, because we have long winters." and "Yeah, it's great for climate change to have all these cars idling." Therefore, I feel like I may get some grief when I whizz past them at 20 mph on the semi-fat tire E-trike I hope to soon acquire. I am tempted to buy one of the rickshaw models because it would amuse me to ride around with my 50 year old sister on the back seat, just like we did on my old heavy frame single speed when she was 6 and I was 16. However, the cargo hauling potential is one of the main draws of a trike over a bike.