Hello everyone,
I'm 24 and currently living in rural Thailand. I've traveled through-out Central (6 months) and South America (2 months), lived in other countries (Thailand, 18 months, Costa Rica,3 months), rode motorcycles, took the train across America.
I think I've come to the conclusion that I want to settle down for a bit and save enough money to semi-retire by 30-35 and then go back to living an 'unconventional' life.
I guess I should come back to California and use the degree (BS Environmental Engineer, EIT) I got and save money.
It's just that entry level engineering, 50+ hr weeks sound so unappealing, even if I know it's only going to be 5 years tops.
Has anyone ever faced this problem? How did you handle it?
If I do go this route, I will be volunteering and working part-time as a baker to keep myself from going crazy.
Holla from Thailand, eventually moving to Cali
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secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
Greetings, DTL. My wife and I are going to Thailand (Bangkok and probably Phuket) for a couple of weeks next month; if you have any recommendations for what we should do/see while we're there, please let me know!
I've faced a similar problem, and the only solution I think anyone can make is to decide which is more valuable in the short term: time or money. The law of compounding interest suggests that longer hours now will pay off more in the long term (since you can compound money but not time), but it just may not work for some personalities.
I think it's ultimately a personal choice: can you handle the long days now more than you can handle working for 10 years. I'm facing a similar issue now--should I work for 5 years and do a full ERE or work for 2 years and do a semi-ERE. It isn't an easy question to answer.
I've faced a similar problem, and the only solution I think anyone can make is to decide which is more valuable in the short term: time or money. The law of compounding interest suggests that longer hours now will pay off more in the long term (since you can compound money but not time), but it just may not work for some personalities.
I think it's ultimately a personal choice: can you handle the long days now more than you can handle working for 10 years. I'm facing a similar issue now--should I work for 5 years and do a full ERE or work for 2 years and do a semi-ERE. It isn't an easy question to answer.
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LiquidSapphire
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:40 pm
I feel that this topic comes up from time to time around here and the answer is very individual and dependent on both temperament and abilities. There have been a couple threads about how to cope with full time work that you don't enjoy. Basically they all center on distraction and keeping your eye on the prize. Some people count down the days to the end, some people focus heavily on ERE type hobbies/skills so they are fully prepared to ERE when their time is up. Me I have a specific monetary goal and an estimated time that I should be able to reach it and that gives me solace... I tell my confidants all about my 22 month plan. It feels slightly better that every month that number changes... it used to be a 2 year plan... a 23 month plan... etc.
Additionally, ERE is not a race, and there is no "prize" for reaching it in 5 years. So if you can do some kind of part time consulting work or something for 10 years, that might be better, if you have a true aversion to full time work. Some of our careers lend themselves to that; mine doesn't really, unfortunately, so I am biting the bullet now.
Additionally, ERE is not a race, and there is no "prize" for reaching it in 5 years. So if you can do some kind of part time consulting work or something for 10 years, that might be better, if you have a true aversion to full time work. Some of our careers lend themselves to that; mine doesn't really, unfortunately, so I am biting the bullet now.
I think it was Jacob who recommended the book "How to find freedom in an unfree world" .. I'm working through it right now and second the recommendation for sure. I also recommend Cal Newport's blog "Study Hacks". Both drive at the same point of finding work YOU find worth doing as a way to feel useful and needed in the world..two things that are very important for your ultimate happiness.
I think if one goes into ERE just focused on "not working 5 years from now" they'll end up sorely dissappointed by the outcome.
But if they focus on "having the freedom to do work I WANT TO DO", then they'll be in a good spot down the road..provided they are able to find that work at some point.
My supposition is that if I find that work in less than 5 years, I won't NEED to ERE; but I'll still do it, since it is a better way to live on this finite planet and frees up money for more conscious spending on things that really matter..
To bring it back to being more personal for the OP..if you really love being in Thailand, find something to do there that supports your lifestyle. If you need a challenge and want to use your engineering degree, come back to the States and work. If you want to meld the two, find a job in Thailand using your engineering degree (yes, they do exist).
I think if one goes into ERE just focused on "not working 5 years from now" they'll end up sorely dissappointed by the outcome.
But if they focus on "having the freedom to do work I WANT TO DO", then they'll be in a good spot down the road..provided they are able to find that work at some point.
My supposition is that if I find that work in less than 5 years, I won't NEED to ERE; but I'll still do it, since it is a better way to live on this finite planet and frees up money for more conscious spending on things that really matter..
To bring it back to being more personal for the OP..if you really love being in Thailand, find something to do there that supports your lifestyle. If you need a challenge and want to use your engineering degree, come back to the States and work. If you want to meld the two, find a job in Thailand using your engineering degree (yes, they do exist).
Whats answering this dilemma for me at the moment is that I don't really have the option of part time work. Well I do, its just that it would probably be in some boring administrative role which I would lack motivation for, even with 4 day weekends. More importantly, it would drastically curtail my savings rate which would mean I would be shackled to the part-time work for decades.
My plan is to start the professional 'career' (I really dislike that word) I'm qualified in and work there for 2-3 years, aiming to save up about 10 years of expenditure. During that time I'm going to try out small, low maintenance businesses which I could potentially live off. If they work out I'll switch to semi-retirement earlier. If not, I'll at least have a cash pile to continue building on.
I think its helpful to have a final deadline when you want to be completely FI. For me its another 10 years at the very max.
My plan is to start the professional 'career' (I really dislike that word) I'm qualified in and work there for 2-3 years, aiming to save up about 10 years of expenditure. During that time I'm going to try out small, low maintenance businesses which I could potentially live off. If they work out I'll switch to semi-retirement earlier. If not, I'll at least have a cash pile to continue building on.
I think its helpful to have a final deadline when you want to be completely FI. For me its another 10 years at the very max.
Hey DTL. I'm in the same field as you. I'm in 4th year - Geotechnical Engineering BSc. Just signed on to my first full time job that I'll be starting in the summer.
The beauty of our field is that it's so versatile. As an enviro you can work purely outdoors doing groundwater fieldwork for consultants, have a pure office job doing writing and air quality modelling, design work for mining water sources, river engineering, or literally anything in between.
I also get "career anxiety" all the time, particularly this past year.
What helps me is to look at my (your) line of work, and imagine all the worse jobs there are out there.
Now I'm speaking to you directly, because clearly other people here might have passions and ideas that us enviro/geo types might find incredibly boring. But really our line of work is awesome! There are so many different things you could do, and you can just hop around when you get bored, and instead of starting anew you'll just be "developing professionally".
Imagine all those poor mechanical engineers working in boring factories, the computer/ electrical engineers cooped up in an office, typing code and designing circuits, just waiting for their job to be outsourced, the lawyers selling their soul and life for a bit of money, or the rest of the arts students in college that have a hard time finding a job for over $12/hour.
It may be narcissistic, but it gives me great comfort to know that if the rest of the world can slag through all those painfully boring jobs for decades, then I can probably be content with a diverse, fun, geo engineering career for 5-10 years before retiring/winding down.
The beauty of our field is that it's so versatile. As an enviro you can work purely outdoors doing groundwater fieldwork for consultants, have a pure office job doing writing and air quality modelling, design work for mining water sources, river engineering, or literally anything in between.
I also get "career anxiety" all the time, particularly this past year.
What helps me is to look at my (your) line of work, and imagine all the worse jobs there are out there.
Now I'm speaking to you directly, because clearly other people here might have passions and ideas that us enviro/geo types might find incredibly boring. But really our line of work is awesome! There are so many different things you could do, and you can just hop around when you get bored, and instead of starting anew you'll just be "developing professionally".
Imagine all those poor mechanical engineers working in boring factories, the computer/ electrical engineers cooped up in an office, typing code and designing circuits, just waiting for their job to be outsourced, the lawyers selling their soul and life for a bit of money, or the rest of the arts students in college that have a hard time finding a job for over $12/hour.
It may be narcissistic, but it gives me great comfort to know that if the rest of the world can slag through all those painfully boring jobs for decades, then I can probably be content with a diverse, fun, geo engineering career for 5-10 years before retiring/winding down.
I was in a similar situation as I traveled for a while (1.5 years) before hunkering down to pursue ERE. I found long term travel helped in a few ways:
1) after living out of a backpack for over a year, it's easy not to acquire much stuff. You know you don't need it and that it'll just weigh you down.
2) all that practice building up a community in each new city gave me the confidence to choose the city with the best job, despite not knowing many people there.
3) I was still in travel mode when I got here, so in the beginning I moved apartments every other month or so, finishing people's leases from the sublet section of craigslist, and getting great deals on rent while getting to try out many different parts of the city.
After I have enough money saved and I get bored of my job, I'll probably go back and have some more adventures before I get old. I'm looking forward to doing that with serious money in the bank this time around though.
You can still have some adventures in a city by the way. Weekend trips to nearby cities, hosting CouchSurfers, dumpster diving, hitchhiking, etc.
PS: Engineering is fun... How did you manage to finish an engineering degree if you dislike it so much?
1) after living out of a backpack for over a year, it's easy not to acquire much stuff. You know you don't need it and that it'll just weigh you down.
2) all that practice building up a community in each new city gave me the confidence to choose the city with the best job, despite not knowing many people there.
3) I was still in travel mode when I got here, so in the beginning I moved apartments every other month or so, finishing people's leases from the sublet section of craigslist, and getting great deals on rent while getting to try out many different parts of the city.
After I have enough money saved and I get bored of my job, I'll probably go back and have some more adventures before I get old. I'm looking forward to doing that with serious money in the bank this time around though.
You can still have some adventures in a city by the way. Weekend trips to nearby cities, hosting CouchSurfers, dumpster diving, hitchhiking, etc.
PS: Engineering is fun... How did you manage to finish an engineering degree if you dislike it so much?
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jacob
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Env. Eng. is DW's field and we used to live in CA, so I got a couple of comments.
1) If you work for a private company, very likely, with a BS degree, you'll be doing tech-work as the junior guy. This means 100F+ days outside wearing long pants [for safety] and a hardhat [for looks] taking core samples with a drilling crew or some such and recording numbers from some instrument which then goes back to the senior guy who writes a report. Repeat-repeat-repeat. It's fairly physically demanding---you'll be bombed after a long day in the sun. The other side of the equation is working on the regulatory side---lots of report reading and writing.
2) CA is undergoing some budget problems (basically they're broke). Environmental regulation/services/jobs is one of the first to get slashed. It's considered a luxury from the state's point of view(*). This means that private companies "get paid later". In other words, companies are struggling.
(*) Which leaves me worried about the long-term state of the planet. Like, how much self-restraint will people show in terms of the forests when they run out of heating fuel? My guess, very little.
Some general advice would be that if you can't stick it out, at least don't spend the income while you're in between jobs but try to make up for it in other ways. CA is expensive to live in (relatively speaking). However, if you can do the RV thing, it's ideal (it only rains 2-3 weeks per year), especially as a roaming consultant type---you can just stay at the job sites. Then if you want a break, you can drive it up to Oregon and cut your expenses in half or put it in long term storage and fly to Asia, etc.
PS: Oh yeah, here's a really interesting observation. "Liberal" states, like Oregon, will have almost no environmental jobs/companies. "Republican" states, will have more. One would expect it to be the other way around, but that's apparently not the case.
1) If you work for a private company, very likely, with a BS degree, you'll be doing tech-work as the junior guy. This means 100F+ days outside wearing long pants [for safety] and a hardhat [for looks] taking core samples with a drilling crew or some such and recording numbers from some instrument which then goes back to the senior guy who writes a report. Repeat-repeat-repeat. It's fairly physically demanding---you'll be bombed after a long day in the sun. The other side of the equation is working on the regulatory side---lots of report reading and writing.
2) CA is undergoing some budget problems (basically they're broke). Environmental regulation/services/jobs is one of the first to get slashed. It's considered a luxury from the state's point of view(*). This means that private companies "get paid later". In other words, companies are struggling.
(*) Which leaves me worried about the long-term state of the planet. Like, how much self-restraint will people show in terms of the forests when they run out of heating fuel? My guess, very little.
Some general advice would be that if you can't stick it out, at least don't spend the income while you're in between jobs but try to make up for it in other ways. CA is expensive to live in (relatively speaking). However, if you can do the RV thing, it's ideal (it only rains 2-3 weeks per year), especially as a roaming consultant type---you can just stay at the job sites. Then if you want a break, you can drive it up to Oregon and cut your expenses in half or put it in long term storage and fly to Asia, etc.
PS: Oh yeah, here's a really interesting observation. "Liberal" states, like Oregon, will have almost no environmental jobs/companies. "Republican" states, will have more. One would expect it to be the other way around, but that's apparently not the case.
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secretwealth
- Posts: 1948
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:31 am
"This means 100F+ days outside wearing long pants [for safety] and a hardhat [for looks] taking core samples with a drilling crew or some such and recording numbers from some instrument which then goes back to the senior guy who writes a report."
This seems massively inefficient, hiring two very skilled people to record and report sample data. Couldn't they do this with just one person?
This seems massively inefficient, hiring two very skilled people to record and report sample data. Couldn't they do this with just one person?
>short term: time or money. The law of compounding interest suggests that longer hours now will pay off more in the long term
That’s why I was deciding to go back to Cali and start working sooner rather than later. Before I found ERE, I was going to take the long way home (tran-siberian to Moscow, backpack thru Europe, catch a cheap flight out of Paris or London) but now I seriously a bit tired of living abroad and want to save some money, invest, and travel in a few years off profit/interest(my dream)
>Additionally, ERE is not a race, and there is no "prize" for reaching it in 5 years. So if you can do some kind of part time consulting work or something for 10 years, that might be better, if you have a true aversion to full time work. Some of our careers lend themselves to that; mine doesn't really, unfortunately, so I am biting the bullet now.
I think the only ‘prize’ in my mind is “semi-retirement by 30” but I know it’s just some wishful thinking. I just like the sound of it
Part-time consulting work probably won’t be possibly. I don’t specialize in anything in my field yet and it will probably take me 3+ years just to become a PE “Professional Engineer” and that’s just a bunch of hoop jumping I’m really not ready for, yet. I know I need to bite the bullet too, really soon. Blah. Knowing and doing…
>I think if one goes into ERE just focused on "not working 5 years from now" they'll end up sorely dissappointed by the outcome.
I think it’s more like “working as a part-time baker 5 years from now” I really enjoy working in bread bakeries and plan on it being my semi-retirement job. Maybe I’ll find a niche in EnvEng that I enjoy but don’t think I want to be 100% retired or 100% 9-5 in 5 years.
>if you really love being in Thailand, find something to do there that supports your lifestyle. If you need a challenge and want to use your engineering degree, come back to the States and work. If you want to meld the two, find a job in Thailand using your engineering degree (yes, they do exist).
I’m ready to go back. I do enjoy it here but I’m ready for the next step in my life.
That’s why I was deciding to go back to Cali and start working sooner rather than later. Before I found ERE, I was going to take the long way home (tran-siberian to Moscow, backpack thru Europe, catch a cheap flight out of Paris or London) but now I seriously a bit tired of living abroad and want to save some money, invest, and travel in a few years off profit/interest(my dream)
>Additionally, ERE is not a race, and there is no "prize" for reaching it in 5 years. So if you can do some kind of part time consulting work or something for 10 years, that might be better, if you have a true aversion to full time work. Some of our careers lend themselves to that; mine doesn't really, unfortunately, so I am biting the bullet now.
I think the only ‘prize’ in my mind is “semi-retirement by 30” but I know it’s just some wishful thinking. I just like the sound of it
Part-time consulting work probably won’t be possibly. I don’t specialize in anything in my field yet and it will probably take me 3+ years just to become a PE “Professional Engineer” and that’s just a bunch of hoop jumping I’m really not ready for, yet. I know I need to bite the bullet too, really soon. Blah. Knowing and doing…
>I think if one goes into ERE just focused on "not working 5 years from now" they'll end up sorely dissappointed by the outcome.
I think it’s more like “working as a part-time baker 5 years from now” I really enjoy working in bread bakeries and plan on it being my semi-retirement job. Maybe I’ll find a niche in EnvEng that I enjoy but don’t think I want to be 100% retired or 100% 9-5 in 5 years.
>if you really love being in Thailand, find something to do there that supports your lifestyle. If you need a challenge and want to use your engineering degree, come back to the States and work. If you want to meld the two, find a job in Thailand using your engineering degree (yes, they do exist).
I’m ready to go back. I do enjoy it here but I’m ready for the next step in my life.
>My plan is to start the professional 'career' (I really dislike that word) I'm qualified in and work there for 2-3 years, aiming to save up about 10 years of expenditure. During that time I'm going to try out small, low maintenance businesses which I could potentially live off. If they work out I'll switch to semi-retirement earlier. If not, I'll at least have a cash pile to continue building on.
This sounds like an awesome plan.
>I think its helpful to have a final deadline when you want to be completely FI. For me its another 10 years at the very max.
Same, same. I feel like once someone has the idea of early retirement in their mind it’s really hard to go back to the conventional “I’m going to retire at 65” That’s 40 years from not for me. I can’t even imagine that .
>The beauty of our field is that it's so versatile. As an enviro you can work purely outdoors
Our field is very versatile but I think working purely outdoors is as great as it sounds.
>What helps me is to look at my (your) line of work, and imagine all the worse jobs there are out there.
I am definitely going to use this to get through the rough patches.
>But really our line of work is awesome! There are so many different things you could do, and you can just hop around when you get bored, and instead of starting anew you'll just be "developing professionally".
This is true. Water, air, hazardous waste, solid waste, LCA, health and safety, consulting, policy and regulations, and tons of other possibilities. The thing is will I be in the field long enough to specialize in anything? I can be the jack of all trades for a while.
>After I have enough money saved and I get bored of my job, I'll probably go back and have some more adventures before I get old.
I'm looking forward to doing that with serious money in the bank this time around though.
Exactly. Living off interest or a passive income would be nice too.
>PS: Engineering is fun... How did you manage to finish an engineering degree if you dislike it so much?
I really like learning about Env. Eng, it’s more like Chemical Eng than Civil or Mechanical Eng tho (in my opinion) I took 6 months off of school travelled when I was getting to the Statics/ dynamics, strength of materials part of the curriculum. Did a little soul searching. Decided I just needed to get through the engineering engineering classes to the classes that I really enjoyed. It was just 4 classes that I really didn’t like, actually circuits and programming weren’t that fun either (sry I know a lot of u guys love the stuff) I think I just dislike the 9-5 more than engineering.
> 1) If you work for a private company, very likely, with a BS degree, you'll be doing tech-work as the junior guy. This means 100F+ days outside wearing long pants [for safety] and a hardhat [for looks] taking core samples with a drilling crew or some such and recording numbers from some instrument which then goes back to the senior guy who writes a report. Repeat-repeat-repeat. It's fairly physically demanding---you'll be bombed after a long day in the sun. The other side of the equation is working on the regulatory side---lots of report reading and writing.
Yup and if you are working in farm country, farmers threaten to shoot you too. Maybe I should come back in September. Monsoon season in Thailand or summer in Cali? hmm..
> 2) CA is undergoing some budget problems (basically they're broke). Environmental regulation/services/jobs is one of the first to get slashed. It's considered a luxury from the state's point of view(*). This means that private companies "get paid later". In other words, companies are struggling
Lovely... And I was enjoy furlough days when I was working for the State in college.
> CA is expensive to live in (relatively speaking). However, if you can do the RV thing,
I’m planning on getting a 13’ fiberglass travel trailer if I’m able to get a job in East Bay. I already have a place to park it and exchange rent and utilities for come cleaning services. The smaller fiberglass travel trailers have excellent resell values too but mainly I have this idea wwoofing throughout the US when I’m semi-retired. But these are all just dreams until I get a job... some wishful thinking
This sounds like an awesome plan.
>I think its helpful to have a final deadline when you want to be completely FI. For me its another 10 years at the very max.
Same, same. I feel like once someone has the idea of early retirement in their mind it’s really hard to go back to the conventional “I’m going to retire at 65” That’s 40 years from not for me. I can’t even imagine that .
>The beauty of our field is that it's so versatile. As an enviro you can work purely outdoors
Our field is very versatile but I think working purely outdoors is as great as it sounds.
>What helps me is to look at my (your) line of work, and imagine all the worse jobs there are out there.
I am definitely going to use this to get through the rough patches.
>But really our line of work is awesome! There are so many different things you could do, and you can just hop around when you get bored, and instead of starting anew you'll just be "developing professionally".
This is true. Water, air, hazardous waste, solid waste, LCA, health and safety, consulting, policy and regulations, and tons of other possibilities. The thing is will I be in the field long enough to specialize in anything? I can be the jack of all trades for a while.
>After I have enough money saved and I get bored of my job, I'll probably go back and have some more adventures before I get old.
I'm looking forward to doing that with serious money in the bank this time around though.
Exactly. Living off interest or a passive income would be nice too.
>PS: Engineering is fun... How did you manage to finish an engineering degree if you dislike it so much?
I really like learning about Env. Eng, it’s more like Chemical Eng than Civil or Mechanical Eng tho (in my opinion) I took 6 months off of school travelled when I was getting to the Statics/ dynamics, strength of materials part of the curriculum. Did a little soul searching. Decided I just needed to get through the engineering engineering classes to the classes that I really enjoyed. It was just 4 classes that I really didn’t like, actually circuits and programming weren’t that fun either (sry I know a lot of u guys love the stuff) I think I just dislike the 9-5 more than engineering.
> 1) If you work for a private company, very likely, with a BS degree, you'll be doing tech-work as the junior guy. This means 100F+ days outside wearing long pants [for safety] and a hardhat [for looks] taking core samples with a drilling crew or some such and recording numbers from some instrument which then goes back to the senior guy who writes a report. Repeat-repeat-repeat. It's fairly physically demanding---you'll be bombed after a long day in the sun. The other side of the equation is working on the regulatory side---lots of report reading and writing.
Yup and if you are working in farm country, farmers threaten to shoot you too. Maybe I should come back in September. Monsoon season in Thailand or summer in Cali? hmm..
> 2) CA is undergoing some budget problems (basically they're broke). Environmental regulation/services/jobs is one of the first to get slashed. It's considered a luxury from the state's point of view(*). This means that private companies "get paid later". In other words, companies are struggling
Lovely... And I was enjoy furlough days when I was working for the State in college.
> CA is expensive to live in (relatively speaking). However, if you can do the RV thing,
I’m planning on getting a 13’ fiberglass travel trailer if I’m able to get a job in East Bay. I already have a place to park it and exchange rent and utilities for come cleaning services. The smaller fiberglass travel trailers have excellent resell values too but mainly I have this idea wwoofing throughout the US when I’m semi-retired. But these are all just dreams until I get a job... some wishful thinking