Forum challenge: Buy Nothing Year

[jacob]

I get the impression that there is a countable number of forumites who have been cruising along on a "normal consumer-level amount of spending" or maybe slightly below thanks to having much above average incomes and who are now getting concerned that the gravy train ride may be ending.

Also noted some concerns about markets being overvalued and how "investing" might not actually be the equivalent of a savings account that yields somewhere between 10%-50% each year anymore.

Some also worry that crazy cheap imports might be subject to random tariff wars and having to navigate custom clearance with surcharges and fees just because the $0.88 shirt or screwdriver they ordered was shipped via China epost suddenly became a Kafkaesque exercise in forms and dialing 1-800 numbers.

Good news is that many people have done this already and like the Wheaton levels, it follows a predictable pattern. Here's what to expect:

(fair warning, the first 6 months are probably gonna suck)
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/ ... othing-day
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... -months-in
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/ ... ng-norfolk
https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/ ... hier-wiser

Keep in mind that a buy nothing year corresponds to a complete and likely permanent change of diet. It's long enough to change your mode and forget your previous paradigm of operation. As such it's different from meat-free-mondays or protesting whatever by not shopping for an entire day or turning the lights off for an hour or whatever the kids or magazines these days are talking about.

This is not performance art, so expect some Kubler-Ross emoting, not unlike losing your job, or retiring early.

I'm pretty much living this paradigm already, so I can't really provide vicarious entertainment for the lurkers. However, I can provide some emotional/technical support/expectations of what to expect in case anyone wants to commit.

Worst thing that can happen is that you spent a year buying nothing and are now sitting on a large amount of cash with no idea what to spend it on. Best thing that can happen is that you got crowbared right into ERE WL6 because it was either sink or swim and you are now prepared to see what's outside Plato's Cave of consumerism.

[sodatrain]

Daaang. OK. Maybe this is the moment for me. I love the idea of doing it with fellow ERE folks. I already shared this with DRE and we will talk about what it looks like to us this weekend. What makes it timely for me, for those that didn't see my Crowbar Log post, is a few things: youngest graduates from high school this year, I just got laid off again and hate the idea of going back to my career (would rather work leveraging other non corporate skills I have), and have been lamenting that my expenses are still to high. I'll still go look for that kind of work (gravy train), but I think it's time to act like that option is dead. Will wrestle with the ideas over the weekend and report back. I expect to have some sort of plan identified, perhaps with a couple exceptions that are important/committed. My NW should support a VLCOL already. So... crowbar my expenses down and realize the dream?!

[blink2ce]

Post updates Sodatrain! You got this.

[jacob]

Insofar there's a reluctance to crowbar, I would recommend limiting the focus to an area/group of budget items rather than limiting the time period. The main value here is doing it long enough to learn how there's light at the end of the tunnel; not spend a short period of time in the darkness.

[7Wannabe5]

**************************************************************never mind

[sodatrain]

The main things that we've had planned are - a family vacation in late march that is largely paid for and a good value to begin with as a lot of it has been covered by other family members (Airbnb for the week), a dear friends wedding in Mexico City in the fall, and the big one is my plan to go to Faribanks in May and start building my house there. In my head, I can get wrapped around these as per-existing commitments, but I wanted to survey y'all to see what you think. Is that just rationalizing or is it reasonable to carve those out as "exceptions" or reasonable expenses. Those 3 time/money for those 3 things could be governed by the principles to keep things more in check. I'll still make up my mind on my own, but I'd appreciate to hear what y'all think, especially those that have done this. I agree it should be a stretch and a meaningful experience so I don't want my rationalizations to undercut it.

[jacob]

Over the years the concept has been stretched and changed in so many ways with exceptions carved out to make it more convenient to participate. I think that takes away from the challenge because the idea was to force people into a sink-or-swim mode to find alternatives. Analogously, there's a big difference between not eating meat on a Monday and going vegetarian. Humans can get very creative gaming the system. I've seen people talk up how they're going to do a BNY and in preparation for that, they just purchased a bunch of stuff to last them the year. Adopting a strategy of simply "serving time" and waiting out the year only to go on a shopping spree when the year is over is also missing the point. People do that too.

I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practise resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms...

That said, like with any other lifestyle changes, I don't think it's a good idea to force it on others or drag people into it. It's also not the best idea to somehow maneuver others into paying for you ("E.g. will you go/do it if I pay for you?") because that's just going to make you look like a cheap bastard. Best choice here depends on the situation and the people.

Originally, the challenge was to stop spending on all discretionary items. It wasn't to avoid spending on e.g. medical care or not repairing a broken furnace. In my case, I did keep my home internet and I did keep buying train tickets to see my long-distance GF, and I did go to the dentist. I also paid rent and I paid for simple food lentils, onions, ... At one point I scored some cheap parmesan on sale and it was such a luxury.

However, I did not buy any new clothes, tech, toys, take-out dinners/restaurants, extra trips, vacations, movie tickets, taxi fares, bus tickets, fancy food, magazines,... and I cancelled all my subscriptions. I also turned the heat off over winter to see if it was possible even if the heat was included in my rent.

I technically failed the challenge because towards the end of it, I did buy a couple of books.

Another way of looking at it would be to compare someone's detailed budget. You can go and look at the journals. A higher spender (let's say $25k/person and up) will have a large number of line entries, especially if they split all purchases up in detail. A BNY person will have less than a handful. In my case it was
Rent+heat+water+electricity: 345
Internet: 10
Food: 100
Health insurance: 110
Train tickets: 120
All other entries were zeroed out.

[7Wannabe5]

What if somebody had a budget that looked more like:

Rent+heat+water+electricity: $0
Food: $20
Coffee: $20
Girl Stuff: $100
Edutainment: $100
Health: $100
Car: $200
Fun & Novelty: $100

Some of us would rather barter/scavenge shelter-space and food that was otherwise going to be dumpstered or de facto dumpstered than not buy any new underwear or books or hair color or musical theater tickets, so leaving shelter and food expenses out of the challenge seems like a pointless cheat that favors Ascetic Introverts over Resourceful Extroverts. One of the reasons I had difficulty promoting ERE to one of my sisters is that she has an annoying wealthy friend who owns a large house in the country and an apartment in Brooklyn, but otherwise quite vocally prides herself on being a minimalist/resource-conservationist. Nobody likes those (4 million dollar house and cloth rather than paper towel) people. Everybody knows this is elitist bullshit at the boundaries.

[jacob]

What if somebody had a budget that looked more like:

The point of the BNY is for people who are used to buying their way through the world to discover alternatives. This does clearly not apply to your case (or my case anymore). If you wanted a challenge for you it might be something more like "no friendly favors"-year or "make everything myself"-year that would open up a world of technical engineering capital instead of relying on social engineering capital.

It's possible to generalize this challenge as "let me try to live for a year without relying on the kind of capital I'm most familiar with".

For most people it's financial. For you it's social. For me it's technical.

[Lemur]

Those who read my journal know that we target $2,500 a month in spending or $30,000 a year. So for a family of 3 that is $10,000 a person. Room for improvement but not bad.

Besides Rent (which includes utilities), Food, Car (gas, insurance, maintenance), cheap gym memberships ($19.99 a month incredible deal that I will not be willing to part with for numerous reasons), and cheap phone bills, I don't think we're your average standard american consumer diet. We don't have cable, streaming services (actually Mrs. Lemur has netflix but I rarely if ever partake because I'd rather browse the internet for passive entertainment), gaming consoles, and I hate Walmart and Amazon with a passion. Entertainment is almost always free or very cheap. Glad my son likes books and being outside as much as I do.

With that said, we're both guilty as charged with unncessary food spending so I'm just gonna focus on that category. Caffeine is a vice and when I run out of energy drinks, that is it (I have 3 left). Will switch to cheap coffee (I've made this promise before and failed).

But I'm extra motivated latey for all the reasons @jacob made in the OP. Job loss for me this year is 50/50 so I'd rather change now before being forced to change.

So feel free to hang me at the gallows lol I've gotten complacent. February data does not lie:

Feb 1 - Mcdonalds $15
Feb 3 - Grocery Shopping $73.52
Feb 5 - Burger King $24.58
Feb 6 - Gas Station Food $6.57
Feb 8 - Grocery Shopping $104.67
Feb 9 - Outback Steakhouse $46.53
Feb 11 - Grocery Shopping $83.46
Feb 14 - Ice Cream Stand $7.99
Feb 15 - Bar Tab $49.03
Feb 15 - Grocery Shopping $27.10
Feb 20 - Mcdonalds $11.00
Feb 20 - Food Lion $88.18
Feb 21 - 7-Eleven $8.60
Feb 21 - McDonalds $3.81
Feb 23 - Chinese Food $29.79
Feb 23 - Grocery Shopping $19.64
Feb 25 - 7-Eleven $7.53
Feb 26 - Grocery Shopping $38.00

Grocery Shopping - $434.57 (hey not actually too bad for a family of 3?)
Unncessary Food Purchasing - $210.43 (not as bad as I thought actually but still cringed a little)

The habit of bad food purchasing requires $84,172 in assets to maintain. Certainly worthy of a cut. I'm also just coming out of a funk myself dealing with a back injury (I've been a bit hooked on junk since November because I've been not giving a f*) but I have been doing pretty well late February.

Regarding dragging other people into it, would need advice. My spouse hates when I bring this topic up. Its almost tradition to eat out on holidays and friend invites. February wasn't too bad for dining out (terrible for fast food but that is on me) but as it gets warmer and people go out more, that might happen. Perhaps a rule I can make for myself is if I do get dragged into these things then its water only + cheapest meal on menu.

[Quadalupe]

Inspired by this, I just canceled spotify (saving €3/month).
Other subscriptions I still have are

• bouldering gym (€60/month)
• internet (€18/month)
• central heating maintenance (€10/month)
• Donald Duck (€4.25/month)
• library (€2.5/month)
• Disney+ (€2.25)

All subscriptions except bouldering are shared with my partner, so actual expenses are twice that. Bouldering fits well into my WoG (fun, social, healthy), but would make a big dent. Internet is hard to get cheaper. Central heating maintenance subscription is something I could replace with a cheaper one (and not something I want to DIY yet). Library is something I want to support. Donald Duck and Disney+ are mainly because they make my partner happy.

So clearly, quite some cognitive biases to conquer...

I'll tabulate my non-recurring expenses later.

[7Wannabe5]

If you wanted a challenge for you it might be something more like "no friendly favors"-year or "make everything myself"-year that would open up a world of technical engineering capital instead of relying on social engineering capital.

Yes, I agree that seems reasonable*. A "no friendly favors"-year sounds too much like something I could better do when I am dead, but a "make everything myself" year does intrigue me. Although, I would note that I'm already not half bad at this. For example, I know how to cook just about anything from scratch, and I know how to garden, but it currently seems not very necessary and/or counter-productive when food on its way to the dumpster is being given away in the building where I live each week. I do plan on joining a couple community garden groups this spring even though I won't need the produce, so if I start distributing food I process or prepare to my social circle, that will likely just result in even more "friendly favors" coming my way!

Okay, the next few things I might have carelessly chosen to buy would be Underwear, Gas, Cell Phone bill, Laundry Machine tokens, Dance Class with Daughter, Car Insurance. I know how to sew and create a pattern, so I could sew myself some new underwear from scavenged textiles. I could walk to avoid buying gas or paying bus fare, but that would be a hard push since I am also teaching group of 3 year olds 4 days this week. I could try to hack myself an alternative to cell phone service. I could go back to hand-washing and air-drying my laundry, but will have to construct some kind of inside drying rack, because I do not have free use of any sort of yard or balcony for drying line. Dance class with my daughter does not have a technical solution, and I will not give up on that basis, because it might have a "friendly favor" solution. I would happily give up my car entirely to if it weren't for the fact that because my adult kids grew up in my frugal household, neither of them currently chooses to own a car and neither does my decrepit mother, so I would be somewhat family-level dependent on my son-in-law as only car owner living nearby, and I already promised to provide some transportation for my sister who lives in NYC and also does not own a car this summer when we are up north together.

I think I might have to actually go pretty Primitive Technology or come up with some unnecessary difficult things to make like a Solar Garden Robot or Smart Car Camper Conversion to make the challenge more challenging, but it also seems kind of counter-productive (although fun) to make stuff from nature if/when I can make it from stuff found in a dumpster. I will have to ponder.

Actually, sadly, I think my Health/Fitness Capital is probably more my weak link at this juncture than my Technological Capital, which makes it kind of scary (for U.S. based heterosexual men) to contemplate the current supply/demand conditions on the Erotic Capital market which I was still successfully "friendly favor" trading on as a semi-decrepit, quite chubby 60 year old up to the point of breaking my last contract just yesterday.


*Are you going to do a More Friendly Favors Year?

[loutfard]

Close to zero spending here on things not considered necessities by my wife. She's smart, creative, much more mentally flexible than most and she admires me.

I can't make a lot progress on buying less on my own, and that's ok. I see muself make progress on buying less in two ways:
- me lovingly waving at my wife from where I am on the ERE path, cheering her on and being excited should she want to explore it further together with me (mostly stealing thef0x's wording here)
- minor substitutions from using financial capital to other sources. Minuscule gains from a financial perspective, but there is so much more to it than that. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if that would have large positive financial carambole effects down the road on big expenses like housing.

[Stasher]

Well I think I can handle doing the month of March as a test and doing a BNM instead of a BNY and then see if I can just keep adding on months. I'm already thinking in my head that I would be subject to gaming the system like Jacob mentioned. I immediately thought of how much I run and race competitively, I go through trail runners very fast with the amount of mileage and the abuse I subject them to. Thus I would fail the BNY challenge due to my exercise/recreation pursuit needs. (I backpack and hike every week and use the same trail runners also). I can only speculate of bike parts and repairs also as when I'm not on foot, I'm on bike.

[7Wannabe5]

@Stasher:

There are quite a few instructional videos available on the internet on how to manufacture your own running shoes. Making the attempt might be fun and/or lead to some interesting other options even if not successful. I'm sure there must also be instructions for making all the different sorts of footwear that were worn by running humans throughout history. I think there are a few forum members who experimented with barefoot running. Since many consumers buy athletic equipment, inclusive of shoes, that they never really end up using, you could also try bartering for shoes through a site such as Freecycle. Or you could earn your next pair of shoes while out running if you also picked up returnable bottles and cans.

Just suggestions. As made obvious above, I am far from a purist in my own approach to these challenges.

[sodatrain]

It's not the time for a strict BNY year for us - we are in a state of transition and are not interested in significantly altering that transition). May 2026 will be a big month for us, and could be the start of a more strict BN-phase.

It is the time to make some cuts and be more aggressive about cutting expenses and challenging / being more creative. Partner and I have already had good conversations about this and we agree on the intent and how to approach it. She has some strengths that I don't have - example I feel anxious about being perceived as a cheapskate and ditching out on social outings to restaurants. Shes comfortable with spinning this into a "weird different" activity. So... we are set there. I'm seeing how spending money is part of my identity - at least as how I'm perceived by a lot of my longer term friends. I smiled the other day because a friend referred to me as "conservative" with my money (as she was shopping a luxury SUV) and it made me chuckle because I don't think most of my longer term friends have ever thought of me as 'conservative' with my money. Classic problem... high earner and high spender and I enjoyed being generous with those earnings. (which is one reason my NW is way lower than it could be had I paid attention/understood even 10 years ago).

My identity has changed. It's still changing. So I know what I want, I'm struggling being that person on the outside sometimes and feel some anxiety about how people will perceive it/feel about it. And I know that is silly. Good/real friends will understand and support me.

So... What next?

I'll be going thru (now and the next few days) and doing the following:

1) identifying my fixed/essential costs that are essentially fixed/required.
2) reviewing my expenses/subscriptions and cutting some of them. Looking for opportunities to cut other expenses. Just downgraded netflix to the standard that is included with T-mobile for a savings of $18 a month. Only 2 screens now instead of 5. My kids can each have one. Netflix now costs me $0. I get a screaming deal on T-mobile (at least compared to the Major carriers) - about $150 now for 5 lines, two of which are my parents and they reimburse me.
3) Using my average spending by category and adopting a zero based budgeting mindset with category limits that are less than the averages of the previous 12 months (because the first 12 months of my data is higher spending).
4) Not sure how functional this is, but I might simultaneously change my expense categories to values based categories to bring priority decisions front and center.
5) Things like clothing, housewares/furnishings, etc can all be zero or near zero thru the rest of 2025.
6) Food ... 12 month average is $909, so that can go down. Partner and I have adjusted our eating/exercise and are getting healthier and spending less; Average over the last 3 months is $780, so headed in the right direction but can go down. We are focused on a protein and fat heavy diet, and will eat good quality food, but the spend can go down. Neither of us has consumed much alcohol so far this year which the benefits on how we feel is observable.
7) I've spent a lot of money improving my GT property and will be listing it for sale. The improvements are done. Some expenses to physically and legally separate my property as I will keep part of it. Building a new house there is on hold until the sale of the first happens - which can take 2-3 years in GT. I expect a good return on these improvements and sale and will use it to bolster cash reserves, and fund other property development work which I am looking at as my investments. I like to build out a place and sell it after a couple years. This will be my 2nd time doing it.

So... Alaska build will still start as planned. This is part of the transition I mentioned at the start. But it might be slower as I'll tie spending on materials (which I see as investments) to earnings while there. And I'll focus more on getting deals/scavenging building materials. Might try and get work on a construction crew, to earn $ and grow my building skills. I'll still be looking for remote tech/pm work like I've been doing because the flexiblity in schedule and income is too hard to pass up right now. So perfect time to hammer down expenses, assume I start living on non tech income, but still look for some tech income for a while. Also, start developing some WoG nodes / skills into potential smaller revenue sources.

[TrailMix]

The point of the BNY is for people who are used to buying their way through the world to discover alternatives. This does clearly not apply to your case (or my case anymore)... It's possible to generalize this challenge as "let me try to live for a year without relying on the kind of capital I'm most familiar with".

Insofar there's a reluctance to crowbar, I would recommend limiting the focus to an area/group of budget items rather than limiting the time period. The main value here is doing it long enough to learn how there's light at the end of the tunnel; not spend a short period of time in the darkness.

Over the years the concept has been stretched and changed in so many ways with exceptions carved out to make it more convenient to participate. I think that takes away from the challenge because the idea was to force people into a sink-or-swim mode to find alternatives.

I have been so engrossed in school for a deadline that I inadvertently started a BNY. At first I thought, "I'll just keep going through after the deadline to the end of the year" and then proceeded to write down everything I am allowed to buy... and I realized that left very little excluded from my usual spending. I think having the cultural acceptance to live like a broke student helped catapult me to my current spending level. But now to get to JAFI/Jacob territory, I will actually have to start crowbarring. After reading the above, I think a traditional BNY would have diminished returns for me. I need to start picking off "needs" in my spending that are really "wants" and force myself to close loop/refined system, not necessarily spend less money.

I will do a Buyerarchy of Needs year. This way I am focusing not on spending less money, but on changing my life so I don't have to spend money. I will flip "make" and "thrift" because of the emphasis on closing loops. And "use what you have" includes repairing. Start at the bottom and work my way up for everything I consume. If I use dollars to get the thing I will post it, either here or in my journal if that list is too long.

I had a previously existing a personal rule that I spend cash back from credit cards on fun life experiences. I know this might be an exception I'm carving out to make the challenge more convenient for me, but I would rather be a hypocrite than not go to the beach with my friends this summer or see my favorite artist live In a way this is an alternative, since it is free money for buying groceries on credit-then-debit rather than debit.

[Jean]

@trailmix

To go from student lifestyle to really low spending, main obstacle is most likely housing and transport. If you have no valuable relationship that would suffer from your housing choices, trying things in this domain could get you the return that a bny get to normal people.

[Saltation]

DW and I talked this over and our spending categories are the following:

Automotive: Vehicle payment
Discretionary: Everything else
Education: Tuition/books/fees (DW has University classes)
Gasoline
Giving: Monthly tithing ($100)
Groceries: Must be for food purchased through grocer. Any form of dining is "discretionary"
Maintenance: Repairs for vehicles/house as needed, no upgrades.
Medical: Had 30k in medical bills in 3 years. Wiped out all HSA funds. If unable to pay through HSA it is medical.
MUIT: Mortgage, Utilities, Insurance, Property Taxes
Professional: Before/after school care, tax prep (basically any service paid for)
Taxes & Fees: Registrations

We have (2) Visa gift cards. One has a strict expiration date. On that date all funds are lost. Value ~$120. We have another at ~$220.
One is a health insurance perk. One is a Christmas and we send a picture to our family when going out. It was purchased with the intention of having an experience we normally would not purchase ourselves.

Amazon prime will be cancelled upon renewal.
Costco will be cancelled upon renewal.
SiriusXM is considered an extremely good value at $5/month. We listen to music nearly all the time. We do not plan on cancelling.

Extended family has already paid for all room/flights etc. to go to Paris for 7 nights. We will not be cancelling but currently have spent $0 to go. Anything we spend aside from market purchased food will be discretionary. I will report back on how this goes.

We are a family of (4) and our children play sports and camp. I walk ~10 miles per day between general exercise and work. There will be wear and tear on a lot of items, but our goal is to keep discretionary spending to as close to ~$0 as possible. We will report back with rationalizations.

[TrailMix]

@Jean I have an opportunity to move this summer. I put details in my journal. For transportation, I have a car that is functionally unnecessary for where I live. Oddly enough, getting rid of the car would have a worse effect on my relationships.