The Education of Revan

[Revan]

Efficiency's program did make me think about another thing as well.

Reading/Learning: We’re going to limit this to ~1 hour a day. Why? Well, all of the actual
reading and learning needs to be done with a purpose. We have nothing against reading and
learning, we just don’t see anyone getting paid to read books. Reading is extremely important if
you want to be successful, the problem is that it “feels” like you’re actually doing work (you’re
not!). So read with a purpose for about an hour a day. After that the real work involves actual
changes to your online store, buying traffic and watching your competition like a hawk to make
sure you pick up on any new marketing/sales tactics to use yourself.

So, I'm going to be reading less and focusing on building skills/academics. It's what James clear, the author of Atomic Habits said too. For him reading is passive but writing is active.

Unfortunately, like a famous character from Dickens, he stuck too narrowly and long with this piece of advice from "Efficiency":

I think this goes to what is said in The Psychology of Money:

1. The hardest financial skill is getting the goalpost to stop moving.

The very good thing about the highly flexible and generalized ERE program is that one could theoretically simultaneously lower ones own expenses DOWN to global sustainable level= 1 Jacob, save/invest enough money to retire very young, and also lift a child in Africa UP to 1 Jacob spending. IOW, you could even start being a Human of Consequence on Day 1! If you watch some more Robin Greenfield videos, you will also learn that it's much easier to gain access to radiantly beautiful strong females by becoming a Human of Consequence than by learning from the Wall Street Playboys and/or other successful Pimp/Players how to offer insecure females well-crafted insults in situations in which they are more likely to be inebriated. It is even easier than offering a 50/50 power couple contract to a similarly successful modern female who only expects you to cover half the expense of yearly international travel and private schools for your 1 kid or life-extension vet bills for your 1 dog.

Yeah, I'll have to watch some more of his videos. (https://www.robingreenfield.org/100changes/) I think I'll even attempt to make my own list of week goals. Also romance, for now, isn't a focus for me. The main focus is to be free to what I want to do (read/learn new things) and not have an obligation to do work.

Here is a sample path for your consideration Revan:

The way I see it is that there's no reason to go to a two year university if a four year university is the same cost. I'll have to look into those professions. I don't know much about them.


For the others that responded, I'll respond when I can talk about something. I apologize for some of the re posts couldn't figure out what was going on.

[2Birds1Stone]

How many are successful and what happens to those who aren't?

For example, physics students aren't in it for the money but rather for the discovery and associated fame. It goes approximately like this:
Year 1: 100% believe they will go on to do research and discover something important and maybe get the Nobel Prize.
Year 3: 10% still believe in the Prize, 60% believe they'll work in physics in some capacity, 30% are looking to branch into teaching HS.
Year 5: 0% believes in the Prize, 20% believe in a physics career. 30% believe in HS, and 50% resign themselves to some form of programming job where heavy math is required.

Of those 20% who are left still pursuing physics, about half go into academia and the other half become a staff scientist for some mathematically oriented company.

Ding dong

[7Wannabe5]

It doesn't matter if you have masculine or feminine energy or if your dick is big or clit is tiny......I've seen extroverts and introverts succeed in sales as long as they play to their strengths and are given the right opportunities.

I agree. It's a universal human skill set. That's why I posted the quote about sales being the most transferable skill you can ever learn from "Efficiency." In fact, I would say it has to be a universal skill set, because it is based on sexual selection, and if there was a human gender or type that couldn't succeed at sales it would have fallen off the evolutionary cliff by now. However, I would note that "hard sell" would vibe more "masculine energy" and "soft sell" would vibe more "feminine energy" and "polishing presentation" would vibe more "introverted" and "contacting as many leads as possible" would vibe more "extroverted." This could also be extended to other aspects of personality and/or social development. For example, the stereotypical used car salesman approach is less likely to find success with a Level Yellow customer/client base. However, the number one piece of advice I offer to young men who want more success with dating apps is "focus on the close"; don't exchange more than a few messages before offering first clear contract such as "Are you available Saturday afternoon to meet for coffee someplace conveniently located for you?"

@Revan:

As the title of the book makes obvious, it is more "efficient" to just focus on money/career/business initially while doing minimum maintenance on health/fitness, relationships/sex/romance, and reading/exploration/personal-interest, and the reality of compound interest supports this tactic. However, as somebody who has now achieved ripe old age of 60, I have seen many variations on the theme of downside of narrow focus in one realm or another. For example, men who narrowly focus on career/money/success first, even if they don't take it to the extent of Ebenezer Scrooge or my multi-millionaire friend, may frequently eventually trend towards giving off a bit of what I'm going to call Trophy Wife Expectation Syndrome. I have dated men in their 40s and 50s who are like, "I'm tall, good-looking, successful professional, affluent, ....I've checked all the boxes I am supposed to check...why can't I just order up my ideal woman to be delivered like a pizza?" and the answer is that they don't understand their customer base and/or the field in which they are operating due to lack of feedback aware experience. And they also end up spending too much time alone or in the company of other men with only a mental model of their "ideal woman" (projection of their own inner feminine energy) to successfully interact with a "real woman." I find that this happens most frequently with men who go into fields such as engineering, tech, or the military.

[2Birds1Stone]

However, the number one piece of advice I offer to young men who want more success with dating apps is "focus on the close"; don't exchange more than a few messages before offering first clear contract such as "Are you available Saturday afternoon to meet for coffee someplace conveniently located for you?"

This is excellent advice. Too many people end up with their own foot in their mouth before the chance for a post latte hand job materializes.

[7Wannabe5]

@2Birds1Stone:

I also advise young women against the practice of providing hand job on first coffee date, even if also offered instant-upgrade-to-dinner. OTOH, whether or not it is good practice for a female to request a hand job after a first coffee date with instant upgrade to dinner is more complex and debatable. As Doechii rapped, if I may paraphrase, "bringing me pleasure is a privilege."

[Revan]

@Revan:

As the title of the book makes obvious, it is more "efficient" to just focus on money/career/business initially while doing minimum maintenance on health/fitness, relationships/sex/romance, and reading/exploration/personal-interest, and the reality of compound interest supports this tactic. However, as somebody who has now achieved ripe old age of 60, I have seen many variations on the theme of downside of narrow focus in one realm or another. For example, men who narrowly focus on career/money/success first, even if they don't take it to the extent of Ebenezer Scrooge or my multi-millionaire friend, may frequently eventually trend towards giving off a bit of what I'm going to call Trophy Wife Expectation Syndrome. I have dated men in their 40s and 50s who are like, "I'm tall, good-looking, successful professional, affluent, ....I've checked all the boxes I am supposed to check...why can't I just order up my ideal woman to be delivered like a pizza?" and the answer is that they don't understand their customer base and/or the field in which they are operating due to lack of feedback aware experience. And they also end up spending too much time alone or in the company of other men with only a mental model of their "ideal woman" (projection of their own inner feminine energy) to successfully interact with a "real woman." I find that this happens most frequently with men who go into fields such as engineering, tech, or the military.
[/quote]

@7Wannabe5 Yes, I understand the negatives of only pursing money/career/business. Or at least I think I do without actually having a full time year around job. I hope to never grow into that Scrooge syndrome with taking frugality to the point of neglecting everything/everyone else.
I read a page from The Power of Who! by Bob Beaudine today that agrees with your point on the negatives of pursing money over interests:

"A professional couple in St. Louis each made very good incomes in the corporate world. But they loved the outdoors. Every free weekend they would escape to the mountains, woods, and streams to camp, hike, fish and canoe. This couples dream followed the same typical pattern of most people. Work, work, work for year and years; save all the money you can, then go live the life you really want. But one glorious day they woke up and realized the years were slipping away and they probably never would have enough money to do their dream. So, what did they do? They sold their house and everything else they could and moved to Arkansas with about fifty grand in their pockets." P. 52

I was just listening to the Mad Fientist podcast the other day and he delayed/over planning interests and not implementing until he started the blog.

Now that I think about it. This is probably why mid-life crises are a thing. People delay doing what they truly want to do.

On the other hand, pursuing money at least for 5 years(After college grad) could lead to extreme early retirement and then there's the rest of life to live.


On a completely different subject:
last week read JLCollins stock series. (https://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/) It's basically sums up to. Vanguard period. Invest in VTSAX. and/or invest in VBTLX to "smooth the ride." Invest always. This seems like a pretty good strategy. I think this is the strategy I'll follow until/(big if) I figure out how to find a good stock.

[Revan]

So, today, I decided to retake the personality test, and I got different results than last time. In 10th grade, 3 years ago, I took the test and scored ENTJ-T. How could these results be so different? My thoughts are bias and the situational exam conditions of when I took the test. In 10th grade, I had no books, but I got “in” with the popular crowd and went to lots of parties. But I left that school at the end of 10th grade. So, the Myers-Briggs test was taken under conditions where I was my most extroverted self ever because I had found people I related to. At the new school, I researched and researched for ways to retire early. 20 years was the soonest given 20 years in the military. That seemed way to long to me. Eventually after a long while scrolling r/leanFIRE I stumbled upon ERE. I read almost every blog post and then read the book. I started reading book after book. This is how I was when I was a really young kid (pre-4th grade). I loved reading books. What changed? Well, in the 4th grade teacher saw I was reading books that had too old English apparently; It was the Hardy Boys series. She then told my I shouldn't read those old books; I can't remember the reason. It killed my interest in books for years, but I rekindled the desire by just reading online reddit years later. It didn’t satisfy my needs. I then read more books 1984, ERE, The Education of Henry Adams. It actually makes more sense that I’m an INTJ. This is because this community is mostly full of INTJs.

In conclusion, my test from 3 years ago, I scored ENTJ-T because of the circumstances. After further reflection, I prefer to be by myself and read books now. Specifically, reading non-fiction books. On the other hand, now that I’m in INTJ central (ERE), my test results could also be biased by the environment. I do think my small talk score is near zero, which is more in line with INTJ. I like going in-depth with topics I am knowledgeable about.

"INTJ
Introvert(78%) iNtuitive(50%) Thinking(6%) Judging(12%)
• You have strong preference of Introversion over Extraversion (78%)
• You have moderate preference of Intuition over Sensing (50%)
• You have slight preference of Thinking over Feeling (6%)
• You have a slight preference for Judging over Perceiving (12%)"

This explains why I lean more into ERE than the other FIRE communities. I want the most skill based life while spending a lot of time at the library.




Also, contrary to what I said in an earlier post, I am going to read all I can. I want to complete my list of books. I thought about what I would be doing once I FIRE, and I know I would be reading and learning new skills. So, there’s no reason to put off reading or learning skills as its something I really like doing. Even if reading books will never be an income-producing asset.

[Revan]

Well either way, both Myers-Briggs traits (ENTJ-T or INTJ) have similarities that are apart of me.

[white belt]

In conclusion, my test from 3 years ago, I scored ENTJ-T because of the circumstances. After further reflection, I prefer to be by myself and read books now. Specifically, reading non-fiction books. On the other hand, now that I’m in INTJ central (ERE), my test results could also be biased by the environment. I do think my small talk score is near zero, which is more in line with INTJ. I like going in-depth with topics I am knowledgeable about.

FWIW, I primarily identify as INTJ but have tested as ENTJ in different phases of my life. When I was in the extroverted jock world of infantry and special operations, I tested as extroverted during a psychological evaluation. I think this is not uncommon especially if you are somewhat near the middle of the spectrum between E and I. At your age I'd advise you to not get too wrapped up in MBTI minutiae because it might limit your activities and perspective. I've seen it happen a few times where [young] people discover ERE then immediately copy/transpose Jacob's INTJ perspective/lifestyle onto themselves, only to later discover that they in fact are another MBTI temperament.

[delay]

Thanks for your journal update. Yeah, my MBTI classification changes too, for example from INTJ to INFJ. It depends on the year I do the test and which test I do. And also, within MBTI, there are confidence levels. If you test 49% E and 51% I, you'll be classified as I. But if the confidence of the test is 10%, you are really 51% plus or minus 10% I, so the choice for I is pretty arbitrary.

At then end of the day MBTI is just a model. It was originally developed to sort new female recruits into the workforce. It can give useful insights but it has many limitations.

[jacob]

Well either way, both Myers-Briggs traits (ENTJ-T or INTJ) have similarities that are apart of me.

I recommend looking into the underlying mechanisms for the theory ("stack theory", there are forum threads) if you want to understand why that is.

The INTJ stack is Ni-Te-Fi-Se, whereas the ENTJ stack is Te-Ni-Se-Fi. This means that the car-model (driver/co-driver/child/toddler) share the same functions but with different preferences.

Also, if one doesn't have a strong preference on a dimension (the most normal since preferences are bell curves), convention is to use a lower case letter to express a weak preference or X to express no preference. For example, you sound like XNTJ? I'm INTj. Writing it like this makes the result more "stable" in time. As far as I know there's no strict percentage. I just divide the range into quintiles, so

J > 80% preference
j = 60-80%
X = 40-60%
p = 20-40%
P < 20%

[Revan]

At your age I'd advise you to not get too wrapped up in MBTI minutiae because it might limit your activities and perspective. I've seen it happen a few times where [young] people discover ERE then immediately copy/transpose Jacob's INTJ perspective/lifestyle onto themselves, only to later discover that they in fact are another MBTI temperament.

Yep, will keep an open mind about MBTI. I’ll be reading a lot more to understand this personality structure.

I recommend looking into the underlying mechanisms for the theory ("stack theory", there are forum threads) if you want to understand why that is.

I'll check that out that stack theory. Thanks.

Also, after a quick internet search of XNTJ, its possible.

[Revan]

Today I finished the book "The Power of WHO!" by Bob Beaudine. In summary, you already know everyone you need to know to get to your dream. Focus on your top 100/40. The top 100 people in your life will want to help you more than a lot of acquaintances.


Now for me:
I'm going to focus on building the friendships I have and see if they're heading in a direction I want to go to. As we know, we become who we surround ourselves with.

[Scordatura]

I've considered a trade such as masonry or carpentry; however, (I need to learn a new sentence structure) after research it seems that everyone gets burned out or their backs broken by the time they're 25.

Nursing, I honestly don't know much about it. I thought it required a bachelors degree. I know traveling nurses make quite a bit. I'm terrible a chemistry and never taken a course in biology so....

Surely not. I hope this is hyperbole. In any case, I'm a machinist by trade and can't think of a single broken back by 25. Actually, I can't think of a single broken back after 25 either. There ARE dangers in the trades, but the rate is much lower than you would expect. Driving to and from work is much more dangerous. I don't expect carpentry or masonry to live up to the hyperbole, either. Though I admit I don't have firsthand experience there.

This is an n of 1, so take with a grain of salt, but I find working in a trade is not as dangerous as depicted. You have more freedom and influence than depicted. The fact is many people disregard trades outright, which means demand outstrips supply. When that happens, labor has more influence than capital. I have never been treated poorly to an egregious degree. Employers know a tradesman can be employed elsewhere almost immediately. I don't want to give you the mistaken impression that everything is nirvana and rosy in the trades, but a lot of the negative things said in this very thread apply more to unskilled labor blue collar jobs. The skilled jobs compete neck and neck with white collar jobs, many times actually beating the white collar jobs. I don't personally care what you decide, provided you exercise your human potential. You do what you think is best for you.

On the topic of UPS drivers, that may genuinely the best ROI of everything simply because the investment is so small. No school. As it happens, I know two UPS drivers very well, and from what I gather there are three main reasons the pay is as high as it is. 1) It's hard on the body 2) The company treats its employees like trash 3) The place is unionized in response to 2). Basically, the company pays good money to abuse you and you not leave. I wouldn't do it and the two drivers I know emphatically discourage working for UPS. Caveat emptor.

Nursing doesn't require a bachelor's degree. An LPN is typically a year in school, an RN can be either 2 years (associates) or 4 (bachelors of nursing). Obviously, more education is a better credential, but it isn't required. If you are interested, I suspect you can slog through a chemistry course. If you aren't, no worries. And yes, travel nurses make crazy money. The stationary ones make pretty decent wages too though.

[Revan]

Surely not. I hope this is hyperbole. In any case, I'm a machinist by trade and can't think of a single broken back by 25. Actually, I can't think of a single broken back after 25 either. There ARE dangers in the trades, but the rate is much lower than you would expect. Driving to and from work is much more dangerous. I don't expect carpentry or masonry to live up to the hyperbole, either. Though I admit I don't have firsthand experience there.

Probably leaning towards going to college and learning a trade more as a hobby.

Yes, you are correct it is a hyperbole. I mean that its “back breaking work.” I’ll admit I really don’t know enough to talk about the trades, so I’ll take your perspective at face value. Thank you.



------
I now understand what the Wallsteet Playboys were talking about when it came to reading. It helps but when over an hour you're losing time that could be spent on developing skills.

5) Reading Increases Communication Skills: You will be writing an email or talking on the phone one year after graduation and you’ll struggle. For some reason the words are not flowing as much as they used to… The reason? You’re not reading as much as you should. Pick up a few books and begin reading 100+ pages a week at minimum. It keeps your brain fresh and you will come off as more mature and polished.

8) Read Books Daily: If you are not reading books outside of the classroom you are allowing the collegiate system to have more influence on your upbringing than it should. The topic of interest is less important than the act of reading. You can read about health, fashion, coal mining, animals, chemistry, art and the list goes on. Reading is similar to investing as the payoff is far in the future, one day you’ll have a chance to make a connection with a higher up on an obscure topic and ideally you’ll have the ability to add to the conversation. Don’t forget that wealthy men and women are typically eccentric.

[theanimal]

If I did it over, I would pursue a trade first then go get a degree later on. A trade will give you an increasingly scarce and in demand skill. You'll be able to make money right away while learning, and later on you can go into business on your own if desired. It will also expose you to a different set of people and understanding of the world that will be difficult to find in a university. Skills, like money, compound. Learning through a job will be much easier than what you can do on your own as a hobby later on.

If you are feeling very ambitious, you could do both. Pursue a trade and take classes at night.

I didn't pursue a trade because it wasn't the cultural norm where I was raised. I didn't think of it until after I discovered ERE, midway through my time in university. I entertained it then, however I was too much of a coward to drop out.

If you do go to university, avoid student loans and debt like the plague.Good luck!

[jacob]

If I did it over, I would pursue a trade first then go get a degree later on. A trade will give you an increasingly scarce and in demand skill. You'll be able to make money right away while learning, and later on you can go into business on your own if desired. It will also expose you to a different set of people and understanding of the world that will be difficult to find in a university. Skills, like money, compound. Learning through a job will be much easier than what you can do on your own as a hobby later on.

I recommended [the trade route] for a while. Yet now I'm not so sure anymore. To flip the script described by @theanimal based on what may well happen. Yes, you'll be able to make money right away but you'll also peak out much sooner intellectually. Perhaps you'll get trapped by the easy money as well. It'll expose you to a different set of people and---I'm sorry to say---the focus on "common sense" in lieu of "critical analysis" is somewhat common outside what you'd find at the university. There's a big difference between "clever" and "smart". It's quite possible that this is a selection process and simply based on who goes where. Learning through doing is generally devoid of a coherent framework and so risk leading to an incomplete understanding in not knowing what you don't know: Learning a bunch of techniques w/o following a curriculum. Compare to the folks who got/get their "edumacation from facebook university"---likely most people have examples of such in their newsfeed but only those with an education can tell the difference.

The grass is often greener either way... and since education is path-dependent, it's hard to do both. As it is, I no longer have a general recommendation. I wish universities taught shop-class and I wish technical schools [and jobs] taught history, statistics, logic, ...

[theanimal]

Yes, you'll be able to make money right away but you'll also peak out much sooner intellectually.

Isn’t this the case for most professions and people? I think this is highly subjective depending on the individual. As you know well, most people don’t read or try to better themselves intellectually past formal schooling. People on this forum aren’t most people.

[Revan]

Isn’t this the case for most professions and people? I think this is highly subjective depending on the individual. As you know well, most people don’t read or try to better themselves intellectually past formal schooling. People on this forum aren’t most people.

People on this forum are a bit different. I think Jacob in his interview with the Mad Fientist called it the graduate school of FI.

For trades or college, the general rule of thumb is to take advice only from people who have been there. Why step on a land mind that someone else has already stepped. Definitely wouldn’t want to “peak" intellectually either. I’m more likely to go to college and study a worthwhile degree while pursing the trades more as a hobby.

[Revan]

I find it so weird. I recommend ERE or the Mad Fientist podcast to friends and they don’t bite. They don’t get excited. They say that must be a suffering life in ERE with only $7000 or boring if retired. (Having nothing to do) Some don’t even bother looking it up. It’s their loss. Right now as seniors they're only caring about grades and college admissions. Retirement or FI isn’t even in the mind-frame.

Anyways, I’m currently reading How To Write A Good Advertisement- A Short Course In Copywriting Victor O Schwab. I actually had no idea what “copy writing” even meant. So, I’m learning how to identify good ads vs bad ads. I think JlCollins says in is what ads do: “Don’t buy crap you don’t need to impress people you don’t even like.” Well, that’s exactly what an ad does; it encourages people to buy stuff they don’t need.

JlCollins quote and nice short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eikbQPldhPY