The Education of Revan

[Revan]

I have no idea where to start this journal but here we go. I delayed, delayed and delayed saying I would write it the next day/week.


My goal is $625,000. I chose this number because I could live on $25,000 dollars a year. The calculation is from 25,000 x 25. (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/05 ... etirement/) Its honestly just a ballpark number and I have no idea how much I need. Currently, I am finishing up my last year of high school and will likely be going to college next year. For now, my expenses are covered by family; however next year I will have a better idea of what I can live on.

I found ERE in my junior year and thought to myself 'what a great idea, retire early!!' So, I dove in head first read all around the blog and forum then the book and then went to other early retirement books. So, in these posts I probably won't have much financials until I get a job/regular income. I will have skill based goals though perhaps too many.
Goals:
Become a better writer
Calligraphy
Become more sociable/a communicator (viewtopic.php?t=13284)
-I've implemented a lot of these and just started 'yapping' about anything. All of the interesting conversations are with my teachers when I ask them about themselves. My classmates are all just worried about where they'll be going for college. I read a recommended book from Chris Voss and I use some of his techniques. "It seems like.." etc. Some of the conversations are interesting, most not. I bring a book to class.
Know a few songs on the guitar
Learn a martial art
-Currently have two stripe white belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (Discontinued)
-I recently found a martial art that I think I can combine with Jiu Jitsu.
Decide college major/career
-Engineering or Statistics or Economics
-Military?
Learn carpentry/masonry
-Have some skill but not much practice or tools
Read lots of books
-Just finished The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. Nice read and I recommend it.
Develop a meaningful philosophy


There is probably others I can't think of at the moment

So, this is my introduction. I'll write as much as I as I can. I'm more of doing this so I can formulate my thoughts and improve my writing at the same time.

[Bytore]

Welcome!

What did you like about "The Pyschology of Money"? I have not read it.

FYI, getting a job with UPS is hard to beat. Free exercise, free healthcare, and they will give you something like $30,000 plus free for college. Assuming you are in the USA, of course. If you are in the USA, depending on where you live they would either reimburse you at the end of the term or just straight up pay the school as well as give you a stipend for housing and bonus for good grades. The former is if you work for the Louisville, KY UPS Worldport. They will pay for your Bachelor's degree there. Not bad for a part-time job.

[Revan]

Welcome!

What did you like about "The Pyschology of Money"? I have not read it.

Warren Buffet started at 10 and always invested. ALWAYS. Success is determined through "hours and hours of boredom punctuated by moments of sheer terror."

"doing something you love on a schedule you can’t control can feel the same as doing something you hate"
Working harder to make more money isn't worth it if it makes you sooo unhappy.

Putting in hours of effort in the stock market doesn't mean success.
These are the quotes that stuck with me.
I really liked how the author also mentioned we see the fancy cars, but we don't see the man in the car. We want to be him, but we don't even notice him.

FYI, getting a job with UPS is hard to beat.

Thank you! I'll look into it.

[Revan]

Recently just finished "Who Cares What Other People Think?" by Richard P. Feynman.
Scale: 7/10
Notes:
Part 1
How Mr. Feynman built his personality
-His first wife Arlene
-She told him "What do you care what other people think?"
-His Dad having him explore and learn outside the classroom
-Learned Calculus at 13.
Psychology chapter
-Can speak or run up and down the stairs at the same time as counting to 60. Always ends up with the same precision of 48 seconds.
-Cannot read and count up to 60 at the same time .
-Tested other people to do the same.
-Conclusion: "Tukey and I discovered that what goes on in different people's head when they think they're doing the same thing--something as simple as counting--is different for different people. And we discovered that you can externally and objectively test how the brain works: you don't have to ask a person how he counts and rely on his own observations of himself" (P. 65)
Part 2
Investigation of the Challenger shuttle
-He notices Managers lack of communication with Engineers. Probability of failure of the shuttle for managers "1/100,000." For the Engineers, the failure probability was around "1/100 or 1/300"
-Its better to stay technical and know what and where the problems are.
-Focus on the system not the goal of putting another shuttle in space.

How can I apply this to my life?
Well, I can be more outgoing and share my thoughts on finance to my friends. I haven't kept it a secret, but I haven't shared it either. I need to start speaking up.

I can't consistently count to the same number when reading a book either (for the psychology chapter).

Continually growing, adapting, communicating and listening with others is key.

[Slevin]

Fun fact about the above book; Richard Feynman never wrote any books.

All the stories in the books are anecdotal retellings of Richard Feynman's stories he told to buddies while playing the bongos and/or retellings to his mentees (of which it is heavily documented both in these stories and in other sources of how he heavily lied to sleep with students, so it isn’t a large stretch to imagine many of these stories are also “tweaked” at minimum for dramatic effect, or maybe even outright lies).

Richard Feynman was a good physicist, made some useful things, and also a horrible colleague, bad collaborator, and largely considered to be a contrarian asshole. Dude tells stories about how he faked babbling in foreign languages with made up sounds and made natural speakers believe he knew how to speak the language… probably more so they didn’t want to embarrass him / make a scene in front of the company with them. There’s a long and detailed and annotated Angela Collier video going much more deeply into all this throughout every book of “his” if you’re interested.

IMO Don’t look up to this guy for anything more than his contributions to physics, definitely don’t be idolizing him as someone to emulate.

[Revan]

There’s a long and detailed and annotated Angela Collier video going much more deeply into all this throughout every book of “his” if you’re interested.

IMO Don’t look up to this guy for anything more than his contributions to physics, definitely don’t be idolizing him as someone to emulate.

All the physicists I know look up to him. They say he was one of the most famous physicist of the 20th century.

I've now watched the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc) and Feynman has a lot of terrible things associated with him. Thanks for sharing the info.

It seems that his Feynman lectures (even though most was by another physicist) is still worth reading. I'm mostly only interested in the way he taught Physics anyway.

[Slevin]

All the physicists I know look up to him. They say he was one of the most famous physicist of the 20th century.

I've now watched the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwKpj2ISQAc) and Feynman has a lot of terrible things associated with him. Thanks for sharing the info.

It seems that his Feynman lectures (even though most was by another physicist) is still worth reading. I'm mostly only interested in the way he taught Physics anyway.

Yeah AFAIK, the Feynman lectures are still considered top notch, and the editing of them was pretty good. I find it unsurprising that a lot of physicists / people studying physics liked Feynman. A lot of them want to be ultra smart and special (including me during undergrad) , and the ways the stories are written, he comes off as that. Its basically fanfic of always being the smartest person in a room, and that's super seductive to a small niche of people.

People who want a "Great man theory of history" tend to love physicists, as well as people who think that things can be reduced and understood through "first principles" and logic in every sector of existence (spoilers, no it can't, especially where humans are involved). Logic and first principles thinking is cool in some areas of life, and much less useful in others. That's why engineers build things (and not physicists / mathematicians / computer scientists). Engineers continue on working unperturbed when they find that reality doesn't match up with the theory, and when they realize they can't understand the million different layers of abstraction in whatever they are working on. They just find what works locally and continue on.

Just things to chew on while you finish deciding your major .

[7Wannabe5]

Feynman was a genius level eNTP generalist. I am a non-genius level female eNTP generalist who for several years lived in the kooky house of a genius level male eNTP generalist (whose most lucrative specialization was electrical engineering of medical devices) who grew up in his father's physics lab at a major university and also emulated Feynman. Slevin is absolutely correct in his advice that eNTPs, no matter how genius-level, should not be emulated. His allegation that we tend towards "contrarian assholes" is also correct (although I like to believe that this is somewhat less abrasive in those of us who are female and not genius-level.) However, the truth of both of these statements is not to imply that the eNTP is of no value as mentor, social acquaintance, or colleague.

As my INFP sister (who was GF to the above mentioned genius eNTP for many years) frequently noted, eNTPs like to "flap their lips" a good deal, so you have to sort through the shit-thrown-at-the-wall-just-to-see-if-it-sticks to find the occasional nugget of intuitive-logic. The eNTP also frequently suffers from a sort of anti-anxiety disorder which causes boredom to be experienced as extremely painful. Therefore, eNTPs are much more willing than most other types to indulge in the Interesting over the Good. It's not that eNTPs can't comprehend how to accomplish projects in applied fields such as engineering or finance; it's just that we would rather "waste" our life-energy on a novel approach with 80% failure likelihood than a tried-and-true approach with 5% failure likelihood. So, you shouldn't model your behavior on that of an eNTP unless you are also more interested in interesting failures than success.

If you want to make use of the knowledge base, experience, skills, or intuitive-logic of an eNTP towards your success, you should simply straightforwardly ask the eNTP to tell you the most likely to be successful approach; very much like temporarily resetting an LLM to "accurate" rather than "creative". Less known fact about eNTPs is that due to our tendency towards generalist, we are usually pretty handy at a wide variety of practical skills, but it is boring for us to "flap our lips" about our practical skills. For example, my eNTP genius friend could also whip up a sturdy book case out of scrap wood fairly effortlessly, and I can simultaneously argue the arcane while cooking a 5 course meal out of whatever ingredients happen to be available in a random kitchen. And another advantage of strong N in concert with sturdy P is that it is very rare for an eNTP to resort to "my way or the highway" type functioning like those more inclined towards S and J, so we are often quite amiable and easy-going as house and work mates.

Also, the sort of scientific/enginering failure more often perpetuated by INTJ types is perhaps well typified by the current failure of the ad hoc methodologies of frequentist statistical analysis. When you focus on "doing what works" in current context, you also have to keep one eye open to any developing contexts in which "what works" will no longer work. IOW, the disadvantage of P over J is "too fuzzy and unfocused", but the advantage of P over J is "bigger picture."

Finally, since I am also a human who has been dating since 1979, I can inform you that beyond the fuzzy-flapping-of-the-lips typical of the eNTP, it was very common practice in the mid-20th century U.S. for men to be verbally deceptive in order to get women in bed. For example, men would often tell lies to engage women sexually on the basis of their soft-heartedness; "I joined the Marines, and I am going to bootcamp and maybe off to war tomorrow, Baby. Can you give me a kiss, so I'll have something to sweet to remember.", "It's my birthday and I am alone. Will you have one drink with me, honey?" And I can assure you that male eNTPs were not the Type most likely to be successful with such untruths. ESTPs are much more slick and skillful and ENFPs much more likely to believe it themselves. Also there is a way in which INTJ males unconsciously deceive their median female partner, which is by being more rational than their female partner can actually grok.

[Revan]

..

[Revan]

Just things to chew on while you finish deciding your major .

Definitely, not majoring in Physics. Would need a PhD to go work anywhere.


Thanks 7Wannabe5. Can you tell me about a famous ENTJ-T persons traits? I took a test a couple years ago and that's what I got.



--
Habit: I'm starting a new habit of writing at least one sentence here or on this forum a day.

[7Wannabe5]

Can you tell me about a famous ENTJ-T persons traits?

Oh boy, I mean, Yes. The good news is that there are actually a lot of famous ENTJ-T individuals even though they are not very common in the general population. This is because when somebody is described as a Mover and a Shaker, they are probably an ENTJ-T. Although, for obvious reasons, ENTJ-A would be somewhat more towards the "Mover" and ENTJ-T would be somewhat more towards the "Shaker." The associated spirit animal would be towards Wild Stallion Herd Leader or The Maverick. Also, the type by far most likely to make a lot of money.

Because ENTJ-Ts tend to be powerful, driven and directive, they are often stereotyped as "The Boss Man." For example, the billionaire character Logan Roy in the HBO series "Succession" is a stereotypical ENTJ-T. If you imagine an Executive striding quickly and confidently down a hallway, barking out questions to his underlings about all the boring details he pays them to keep track of for him; that is an ENTJ. He is first engaged in (Te) actively thinking on his feet and driving results. He is next focused in (Ni) developing his overall strategy moving forward. His tertiary (Se) means that he is worldly, of the world, but not concerned with the tedious details. His 4th position (Fi) points to his hidden idealistic romantic core; the Why for all his action towards success which he is often not quite self-aware about. For example, an immature ENTJ-T is the sort of human who will engage in a battle for somebody he loves, without first checking in with whether this would be his beloved's preference.

Many famous businessmen are classified as ENTJ; Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffett. However, the T (turbulent) edge might make you tilt a bit more towards the famous actors who are of the type such as George Clooney and Harrison Ford. Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Nancy Pelosi, Alexander Hamilton, Margaret Thatcher: all ENTJ. Basically, it's almost like it's difficult to not wind up at least Big Fish in Small Pond level Famous/In Charge if you have the ENTJ personality type.

ENTPs and ENTJs can often seem superficially quite similar, but their underlying motivations are very different. ENTJs are essentially builders while ENTPs are essentially explorers. ENTPs are often just-for-the-kicks competitive, but not very ambitious. ENTJs are seriously-stacking-the-bricks ambitious. The word an ENTJ would most often use to denigrate an ENTP would be "flakey."

[Revan]

ENTJ-T would be somewhat more towards the "Shaker." The associated spirit animal would be towards Wild Stallion Herd Leader or The Maverick. Also, the type by far most likely to make a lot of money.

Many famous businessmen are classified as ENTJ; Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffett. However, the T (turbulent) edge might make you tilt a bit more towards the famous actors who are of the type such as George Clooney and Harrison Ford. Napoleon, Julius Caesar, Nancy Pelosi, Alexander Hamilton, Margaret Thatcher: all ENTJ. Basically, it's almost like it's difficult to not wind up at least Big Fish in Small Pond level Famous/In Charge if you have the ENTJ personality type.

Thank you 7Wannabe5. This sounds like good traits to have, a "The Maverick" and "Wild Stallion Herd Leader," on the goal towards financial independence. Making a lot of money is also helpful. I got a lot of skills to build up and putting in the work to get over there. (Stacking the bricks ambitious)

Guess I have some auto/biographys to read to understand more.

I have another question.
What quirks or bad traits do an ENTJ-T need to work on?

[7Wannabe5]

Well, the vice of the ENTJ-T would be Anger and maybe an edge of Gluttony. Work hard, Play hard. "Nothing is going to get in my way!" mantra can obviously lead to some anger when inevitably all sorts of stuff does get in your way. For example, Elon Musk is more often classified as INTJ, but his current mission to get rid of government inefficiencies and regulations is likely fueled by the frustration/anger most men feel when a tool does not work in the smooth manner desired. Complications such as these are sometimes felt as assaults on one's own personal freedom. The "useless' emotions of others can also be similarly framed as impediments to progress towards goal completion.

Since you are quite young, I think this forum is a great place for you to start, because ERE is all about strategy and boosting your strategic ability will combine with your primary strong Executive Function to become your super-power. IOW, you already have the innate ability to make decisions and get things done, but longer-term planning requires more consciousness of second order effects of your actions. You want to become the project manager of your own life-energy/will*power, and then you also want your projects to form a coherent whole in alignment with your overall mission. Stoic philosophy and similar can help you to avoid the sort of friction in oppostion to your goals that engaging in behavior akin to bar-room brawling may create. Anger can be an energetic force when well-directed, but rage will burn down your bridges faster than you can build them.

By mid-life, the issue you may find yourself addressing as an ENTJ might be making sure that your action/success hasn't outrun your core values and emotions. As in, "I've created my empire!...Why?" For example, a primary Te friend of mine wanted to work towards creating a sanctuary for a rare bird, so he started cutting down all the trees on his property that were not favored by that bird without considering possible long-term downside, and he lost sight of core motivation in pursuit of efficient accomplishment of tree-clearing mission. He spent all his time on his property using various power tools he accumulated to reach this goal, and no longer spent any time simply being quiet and observing the birds. Another primary Te friend of mine who became a mega-millionaire started out with the goal of becoming a millionaire, but didn't know how to stop. I think his repressed idealist-romantic side was inspired by a woman he met in college who became a professor of philosophy. ENTJs usually have little difficulty with attracting many partners, but the true nature of the love they seek, which is actually the quiet semi-conscious inner muse powering them towards success, may remain elusive to them.

[Revan]

"Nothing is going to get in my way!" mantra can obviously lead to some anger when inevitably all sorts of stuff does get in your way.

What you said describes a lot about my life which makes me reflect. I really need to read that Please Understand Me book.

---
On a different subject:
I've found a nice quote and its one of Harry Thoreau's famous analogies. "If a man does not keep place with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." We, the ERE and FIRE community, value time over money. We beat to a different drummer not following the joneses. We want the ability to spend time on different projects and not be the modern indentured slave.

[Revan]

I just finished the book Atomic Habits by James Clear. Its a pretty nice book that aims to improve you 1% a day. If you know the value of compound interest that's about 38x your current state.
Good Habits:
1st Law Make It Obvious:
-Write down current habits
-Then use implementation techniques/Habit stacking. i.e. After this, I will do that at a certain time and location.
-Design environment for success
2nd Law Make It Attractive:
-Connect what you want to do to what you need to do
-Join a culture where behavior is attractive. i.e. a early retirement extreme forum
-Do something you enjoy before habit
3rd Law Make It Easy:
-Reduce the number of steps to implement steps. i.e. Have financial independence websites bookmarked
-Two-minute rule. Just start, frequency practice is important. i.e. Read one page of a book.
-Automate habits with technology. i.e. saving and investing.
4th Law Make It Satisfying:
-Habit track your habits “don’t break the chain.”
-Never miss twice.

Bad Habits:
1st Law It Invisible
-Reduce exposure. i.e. Hide the T.V. in the closet.
2nd Law Make It Unattractive
-Highlight benefits of quitting.
3rd Make It Difficult
-Add increasing number of steps. i.e. Take out the batteries of your remote for T.V. and put them in different room.
4th Make It Unsatisfying
-Accountability partner
-Habit contract


Make the new habit apart of your identity. An essential part that you can not live without. i.e. Learning something new everyday


Other sources from the book I found interesting.

https://blog.samaltman.com/productivity
-“Doesn’t matter how fast you move if it’s in a worthless direction.”
-Make lists and don’t do dumb things
-Optimize your year

https://collabfund.com/blog/the-freakishly-strong-base/
Implement habits while young to compound over lifetime

https://www.deseret.com/1992/12/25/1902 ... be-taught/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1sz ... olg%C3%A1r
I thought this one was really interesting. Laszlo Polgar believed that geniuses weren’t born but made. He studied auto/biographies of prodigies and noticed that they all started at a young age. He experimented on his kids and turned them into chess prodigies. It’s an interesting way to raise kids.

https://www.hackster.io/news/netflix-an ... 34d0179deb
Guy hooks up his bike to TV, so only when he cycles at a certain pace will the movie play.

[Revan]

I just finished the book Atomic Habits by James Clear.

How can I apply this book to financial independence?
-Tracking spending and saving
-Net Worth daily tracking
-Start habit of reading one financial blog post a day.
-Be ready for mistakes and financial challenges/setbacks along the path to independence.

[7Wannabe5]

What you said describes a lot about my life which makes me reflect.

I learned that from David Deida's "It's a Guy Thing: An Owner's Manual for Women." I really didn't comprehend why my male partners would become so frustrated or angry in those kind of situations until I read this book. In fact, when I was a very young woman, I used to take it personally when men would lose their temper with situations while in my presence. Cry-> Feel hurt-> Yell too-> Silently calculate dollar value owed me in relationship for tolerating such behavior-> Leave room or relationship-> Appropriately boundary and communicate acceptance and allowance: would fairly well describe my developmental journey as a woman in relationship to men exhibiting anger and frustration when stymied in their masculine purpose or feeling deprived of freedom. I was probably a bit retarded or dodo-like in my development relative to other women due to the fact that I had no brothers and my father was mostly a sweetheart, but this series might offer you some insight into reactions of others.

Anyways, if that bit rang especially true, I would recommend David Deida''s "The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire" to you. His writing style is a bit "woo-woo", but much of his advice is quite solid in practice. He also appears in some videos on YouTube, and it might be worthwhile to watch these just to learn how to copy the move he occasionally makes with his abdominal muscles while he is speaking, because it is kind of mesmerizing.

I would also recommend "Efficiency: Get Rich Without Giving Up Your Life" by The Wallstreet Playboys, with the giant caveat that although much of the advice they offer for pumping up the Earning numerator of the (Earning/Spending) frugality metric is valid, they err a bit on the side of mean-spirited and short-sighted IMO. For example, I did not like their advice about making money by taking advantage of the weaknesses of average chump on the street. Also, they do not give the practice of reducing spending the power it evokes as the denominator in the frugality metric. Also, the sub-text of this book is oddly a bit towards the naive-romantic, since it implies that there is some golden peak of existence you may eventually achieve by following their advice. IOW, their advice is kind of aimed at the kind of guy who falls deeply in love with his Trophy Wife, because she is his Trophy Wife. Still, the practical aspects of their program should tend to take you to $200,000/year income as easily as the practical aspects of ERE1 should tend to take you to less than $15,000/year in expenses. Give or take for some friction or "not enough hours in the day" in trying to simultaneously maximize/minimize both of these. I briefly attempted the "Efficiency" program myself, because I am lifelong significantly weaker in High Earning then Low Spending, but this was largely humorous experiment, because I am the near opposite of intended audience for their advice. However, I wish I had stuck with it long enough to see if their advice for picking up on young women in bars would work for me if I attempted to pick up old men.

[Revan]

I learned that from David Deida's "It's a Guy Thing: An Owner's Manual for Women."



David Deida''s "The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire"


Efficiency: Get Rich Without Giving Up Your Life" by The Wallstreet Playboys

Thank you so much. These books are now on my reading list. I would have never have found out about David or The Wallstreet Playboys. As per the Atomic Habits book I just read, I am committing to finishing these three books before the end of February.

$200,000 sounds a bit absurd though if everyone read the book. Its always easier said than done.

[7Wannabe5]

Well, the authors are quite straightforward in allowing that their program only works because 95-99% won't even attempt it. This is also true in terms of the FIRE and the returns to be expected from investment. I do want to emphasize that "Efficiency" is not nearly of the quality of "ERE" or "The Way of the Superior Man." It's just the best recommendation I can offer that addresses the Earning end of things from reasonably up-to-date perspective. Actually, I just remembered that in the sub-topic of Earning through Entrepreneurship, I preferred the approach of M.J. DeMarco in "The Millionaire Fastlane: Cracking the Code to Wealth." DeMarco is much more likeable than the Wall Street Playboys, more "I want to make a lot of money, so I can buy my single Mom a house of her own." than "I want to make a lot of money, so I too can get hawt women like the Chads." However, he really is only focused on entrepreneurial success so his overall model is not as solid, although his rules for entrepreneurial success are better, more complete, and less mean-spirited than those offered by the Wall Street Playboys.

[Revan]

I've now read David Deida''s "The Way of the Superior Man: A Spiritual Guide to Mastering the Challenges of Women, Work, and Sexual Desire." It was interesting reading about the polarity differences between feminine and masculine. Love for feminine and purpose/freedom for masculine.

After some reflection and looking back relation/friendships. I've never been that "woo-woo" affectionate kind of person. The one that can read between the lines of statements like "I don't want to go to the movies." (Like it says in the book)

I've been mainly focused on my own goals(purpose).