Frita’s Lost and Found

[Frita]

The uncharacteristicly beautiful fall—sunny cornflower blue skies, palette of leaf color, highs in the low-60s—continue. I am enjoying my life in nature.
PAID WORK/VOLUNTEERING: I am now receiving daily emails requesting donations for the group with whom I volunteered. Of course, I am able to delete, just find it off-putting.
MARRIAGE. My spouse still has no idea who he is under his well-crafted image. That is not partner material.
DIVORCE Pausing.
SPOUSE My spouse started counseling yesterday. He actually has a decent job offer coming in (3.5 hours away) and told me stopping work was a bad idea for his mental health. (Duh, it just got worse from bad.) Some resentment is coming up for me, which I need to process.
SON Business as usual. This weekend we made slice-and-bake candy korn cookies together.
FAMILY My mom is in her mid-80s. She continues to decline but doesn’t see it. Her partner is in worse shape. I am waiting for the next shoe to drop.
SELF-CARE
Sleep: average 7 hours 30 minutes
Exercise: average 22,632 steps/day On the day I was volunteering/attending the symposium I had a light day, which affected the total. Part of me really wants to be running…grrr, maybe I can jog a little? I am still stretching and considering wall Pilates.
Food: I am continuing to eat well. Last week I ate out twice. The dessert is what gets me. Large portions are probably meant to be shared.
Hydration: 90+ ounces water 6 of 7 days I drank less water on my indoor, non-hiking day.
Health: no changes
Social: Since most people my age are still working, they have less time. Older, more traditional people are the ones with freetime. I find it harder to develop mutual relationships beyond the superficial with this demographic.
DECLUTTERING: I recognize that I am better at piling up things than actually getting rid of them. I need to build in (bi-)walkly walks to donate.
FINANCES My individual credit score is a category lower than my spouse’s. I feel incredibly angry that he unilaterally made decisions that hurt me, lied about it, and only gave me access after he found out who my lawyer is. Shared finances was the norm when I got married. I appreciate the more modern options.

[7Wannabe5]

Shared finances was the norm when I got married. I appreciate the more modern options.

Well, it's also the case that "shared finances" was a step beyond "husband role assumed to be in charge of finances" which was also a step beyond "husband legally controls all finances including his wife's intellectual property" which was a step beyond "wife=chattel/property of husband." Obviously, rigidly separated finances would be in alignment with Level Orange/Modern and mushily separated/shared/"compromised" finances would be more in alignment with Level Green/Post-Modern. Theoretically, at Level Tea-Yellow/Meta-Modern Systems (level of "ERE"), competence would determine who was in charge of any given task, but it seems to me that this would also have to occur in a thoroughly transparent manner. There's also a good deal of chicken-egg historically going on here, since the absolute and relative ages of the partners to a marriage would also contribute to most likely default.

One of the suggestions made to me in alignment with too simplistic (or too "pre") understanding of (meta-modern level)sexual dichotomy theory was that "letting" my first husband take charge of the finances would make him feel more in his masculine energy, and thereby improve our sex life. There were at least 4 reasons why this "exercise" didn't work; the interesting thing being that I could only "see" 2 clear reasons why it didn't "work" back then, but now I can "see" all 4. Maybe if I live long enough, another couple will pop into my consciousness. My current preference-in-theory would be something like taking turns being in primary charge of the finances/lifestyle for functional period of time, but I somewhat doubt such an "experiment" would pan out over the long run in marital reality.

The more general point I am making being that it is entirely possible that twenty years after you divorce, you will realize from higher perspective that there were a few more options for your own behavior to have influenced the course of events. Yet, it still ever remains true that "you can't see it until you see it" and also that you may never have come to see it unless/until you did divorce. In fact, I would reckon that at the very least, absolutely accepting divorce as a possibility is actually a pre-condition for entering/transforming into a "higher" stage marriage.

My spouse still has no idea who he is under his well-crafted image. That is not partner material.

I am having a hard time fully picturing or characterizing or intuiting/feeling your husband. I don't think I have ever been in relationship with somebody who attempted/achieved a "well-crafted image." However, I would assume that he would likely be towards The Achiever (Enneagram), so maybe Estj? Actually, I am taking back my "never been", because the affluent poly-partner I lived with off and on for a few years was an eStJ, and our relationship was towards a Hawkeye (me)/Major Margaret Houlihan (him) clash, which was amusing/tolerable on a "just camping out" or friendship basis, but NOT 24/7 primary, and instead of holding the perspective that he had a "well-crafted image", I thought of him more as "being in the closet" and also boringly concerned with "badge collection" in alignment with "most conventional hierarchy." He was also a stormy-tempered intermittent yeller/pot-slammer like Houlihan or Gordon Ramsey, so I could fairly easily imagine him getting physical in conflict with a partner in a more invested relationship on a low functioning day. This is also the type most likely to have a secret sex/fantasy life that does not "match" with conventionally successful image. If yours was initially a mutual "in love" romantically motivated match, then I would bet 5 ERE tokens that you were very conventionally attractive at the time of your courtship. The ESTJ male falls in love with conventionally high-status female just like Hot Lips Houlihan fell in love with Officer with Most Stripes/Medals on Uniform, but they can also be kinky or turned on by cheating/sneaking on the down-low, like Hot Lips with Frank. IOW, they are often the annoying humans who turn up too often on polyamorous dating sites even though they have zero conception of polyamory as practiced at Level Green/Yellow by an open-minded type such as an ENFP or ENTP. INTJs are also open-minded enough to accept the practice of polyamory, but as is obvious from this forum, they don't often practice it, likely due to tendency towards Serial Mastery, although I did know a classic, very tall male INTJ in college who was simultaneously involved with two cute, curvy, very short, brunette female STEM majors who were friends with each other. Maybe this was roughly analogous to how an INTJ might sometimes extend himself beyond minimalism to owning two kettlebells of same weight? Dunno.

[guitarplayer]

I need to find ways to declutter. DW is slowly selling some things, but your post above brings to my mind again the easier and quicker option of just donating.

[Frita]

@7W5 Agreed, pooled finances with possible collaboration is an improvement and time certainly can give more perspective.

I am having a hard time fully picturing or characterizing or intuiting/feeling your husband. I don't think I have ever been in relationship with somebody who attempted/achieved a "well-crafted image." However, I would assume that he would likely be towards The Achiever (Enneagram), so maybe Estj?

Picture the classic wolf in sheep’s clothing or biting into a hollow chocolate bunny expecting ganache. I’d say my spouse is an IstJ who presents like an XSTj. His home persona is more like your pot-slammer (Good job ditching that guy!) or an extremely depressed Frank Burns with me being a mashup of Radar and Klinger.

The guys who historically liked me were popular, football players, and/or frat boys majoring in business or in law school. My mom insisted that I give everyone a date, but I quickly learned to just pass. I like nerdy engineers and scientists who are athletic.

I need to find ways to declutter. DW is slowly selling some things, but your post above brings to my mind again the easier and quicker option of just donating.

I use a combo approach. If my son wants to sell something and pocket the cash, fine. Passing things along on FreeCycle is actually my preference. If it’s something someone is searching for or something that’s really good, I put it on there.

[7Wannabe5]

Picture the classic wolf in sheep’s clothing or biting into a hollow chocolate bunny expecting ganache.

Okay, totally gotcha now. I use the phrase "realistic plastic fruit" to describe the sort of men who seem/reveal like that to me. It's interesting that the men who like you and the men you like seem to be just around a half-notch off from the same for me. If you visualize the Enneagram as a round dial, it might make sense due to the fact that I am likely somewhat more towards I and maybe a tad more P than you, so your preference for "athletic scientist" @5 shifts a bit counter-clockwise to my preference for "muscular hipster" @4.5. And maybe something like a line across the top of the dial from 7.5 to 9.5 would boundary the segment representing the guys who like us, but since their motivation is more blurry for us to determine, it's more difficult to pin down or differentiate? For example, it's generally kind of obvious why smart-for-a-jock/businessman @8 goes for cute-for-a-nerd, but why does the classy diplomat @9 go for us? Never mind, I know the answer. As ENTPs we are somewhat switchy, so 8s are more attracted to us as easy-going/open bottoms and 9s are more attracted to us as fun-enthusiast tops.

[Henry]

My mom insisted that I give everyone a date

I suspect it's not the case, but this does give off a slight "my mom was a cocaine addicted owner of a New Orleans brothel" vibe.

[Frita]

@5w7 We would certainly never have to fight over men. Now when I see middle-aged hipsters, I think of you.

@Henry The “go out once with every boy who asks you” is a dating philosophy of some people. It’s kind of like going to church dances and being expected to dance with every boy who asks. Personally, I believe being able to say “no” for any reason is vital to people having agency.

The snow and wind finally hit yesterday. I used to be less accepting of this weather transition. The key seems to be dressing in layers and getting outside anyway and just moving through the transition. Next year I hope to be south for Hanal Pixán.
PAID WORK/VOLUNTEERING: This has not been on my radar this week.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE: I am combining these categories. If common law marriage is a thing, it seems common law divorce should be as well. Of course, none of this applies in my state. It’s more of a thought experiment in optionality.
SPOUSE My spouse has a couple interviews for in-town professional positions next week. Although he is the walking poster boy of anxiety and depression, he seems to be in better spirits about going back to work. Unlike his former position, he could have a work-life balance though with a fraction of his former pay. He is still drinking on his meds, going to counseling, and eating like a teenager. Since he refused to move his things from his closet, I moved them for him. I didn’t like him in my space whenever he needed something.
SON My son applied for some study abroad opportunities and is hoping to go to Poland this summer. It sounds like he might be getting promoted at his tech job. We’re having a pizza-movie party, just us, tonight as kids here don’t seem to door-to-door trick o’ treat anymore.
FAMILY My mom’s neighbors are wanting to buy her farm and let her (and her grouchy partner) live there until they die. The offer is light but pulls on her desire to age in place. As a perfectionist, I doubt she would be satisfied with their level of maintenance. I think she could be happier with a smaller, in-town place. She is a bit too confused to have a productive conversation and not bad enough to take over.
SELF-CARE
Sleep: average 7 hours 4 minutes
Exercise: average 21,792 steps/day I took a rest day in there. When the storm hit, I got a migraine and my bum knee was not happy. The embedded stretching continues. I plan to do a wall Pilates challenge in November.
Food: I am continuing to eat well. The rest day seemed to substitute snacking for walking/hiking.
Hydration: 90+ ounces water 5 of 7 days I drank less water on my indoor, non-hiking day.
Health: no changes My meditation practice is increasing
Social: I had a couple walk and talk meet ups with people I have met at group activities, bonding over shared interests of music and nature. Our mixed friend group is pressuring me to have my spouse at Thanksgiving and just pretend. Grrr, more controlling behavior is ironic.
Mediation: I am expanding my meditation practice to include some Jungian techniques, complete with a separate journal from the personal one I have restarted this year. I shoot for 3-4 of these sessions weekly. The contrast is interesting.
DECLUTTERING: Albeit on the same day, I did two separate walks to donate what I could carry. My intention is to do at least a trip a week.
FINANCES My spouse took my giftcard to a local printshop and bought a hat with it because he “forgot” it was mine. When I questioned him, he paid me back at 80% of the value in cash. Ultimately, I don’t care but don’t have the bandwidth to divorce someone with this sort of mentality at the moment.

[Frita]

This was actually from November 7th:
Another week of wind, snow flurries, and cold…Some people are more heat tolerant; others more cold tolerant. I am in the former camp. This informs me that I want to be someplace warmer at least part of the fall/winter/spring.
PAID WORK/VOLUNTEERING: I am in a space of no longer wanting long-term commitments from which it would be hard to disentangle myself.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/SPOUSE: I am shifting the effort I once spent on this area to myself again. It’s sort of a “Stop watering dead plants situation.”
SON My son’s birthday is this weekend. It brings up many unpleasant memories for me that typically continue through Easter. He is a bit off too since I know he misses his twin. We are a special dinner planned that we’ll cook together.
FAMILY I am appreciating the time I have right now to be more hands off while being prepared to step in quickly.
SELF-CARE This is the main focus for me right now. I find it challenging as I feel quite depleted these days. As @Riggerjack pointed out, living with an anxious depressed person sucks. I don’t feel charged from the chronic, historic drain.
Sleep: average 8 hours 7 minutes (Daylight Savings Time is messing with my internal clock.)
Exercise: average 23,481 steps/day I got some gloves that have the tough index fingers to start a podcast/audiobook while walking/hiking. These have been surprisingly nice. Pilates challenge: 3 days of 28 completed, probably should have started with the beginner’s version as core muscles I never knew I had hurt. Still doing integrated stretching throughout the day.
Food: Darn Halloween candy! I notice that it only takes a couple fun-sized pieces of candy and the sugar rush hits me. I notice it is like the buzz of drinking a beer. Despite not eating candy on Halloween, I have eaten some 5 of 6 days since. My weight is stable.
Hydration: 79 ounces/day average As it gets cold, I switch from salad to brothy soup for lunch and have hot herbal tea in the afternoon. I think these decrease my need for drinking water. Not really sure how to account for that and it probably doesn’t matter.
Health: no changes
Social: This is the time of year where there is an increase of activities, as in obligations. I feel little pressure to do them. One friendly acquaintance and I are starting to have a scheduled weekly walk-and-talk. I enjoy the routine.
Mediation: I still prefer a more traditional practice; however, the shadow work is internally shifting things in a way I can’t put into words.
DECLUTTERING: Holiday weekend, no donations accepted.
FINANCES My credit score went up one point. Next week my son has a minor surgery, which will be out-of-pocket since our deductible is so high. I am irritated about this.

[Frita]

This past week has been a challenge. I post to hold myself accountable for not staying stuck here.
PAID WORK/VOLUNTEERING: I have been encouraged to apply for a position that closes in several days. I cannot motivate myself to write a cover letter to upload with a resume and reference list. While my freedom to dancecard has openings, filling it with work seems like a step backwards.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/SPOUSE: My spouse is really off the rails. I cognitively understand that starting therapy and antidepressants starting to work can create more acting out. Being the target of that behavior is sucks. My “support system” enables my spouse while insisting I stay and shut up or just leave. Neither extreme works for me. I do not like the shaming, blaming, isolating dynamic.
SON My son and I had the best time we could celebrating his birthday. My spouse’s participation mostly involved getting his share of dessert to take down to his lair. My son and I will not be participating in the Friendsgiving this year.
FAMILY The silver lining of this past week is that I don’t have enough bandwidth to engage. I have a reaction plan in place for the most likely scenarios.
SELF-CARE I am not doing well this department. Nightmares and migraines are becoming issues again.
Sleep: average 8 hours 21 minutes My routine is out-of-sorts. I tend to be sleeping in to make up for waking up in the middle of the night.
Exercise: average 16,204 steps/day I believe wall pilates aggravated my knee injury so I took a day off, decreased walking/hiking, and am back to just integrated stretching.
Food: My weight is stable. (The Halloween candy temptation is gone.). Soup with lots of veggies are my favorite comfort food.
Hydration: 45 ounces/day average My intact of coffee has doubled.
Health: no changes I am starting to get silver hair and rather like it.
Social: I find myself skipping some activities due to headaches and fatigue. I am ceasing contact with shared friendly acquaintances as this is a source of secondary abuse.
Mediation: The monkey mind has reappeared. A lot of emotion (sadness and anger) is coming up. The Jung’s Digging Method involves just digging which is actually a more productive focus for my frustration.
DECLUTTERING I did not follow through but have this weekend’s donation window on my calendar. I notice my spouse buys a lot of sports t-shirts that are a feature on the discard pile. My own clutter is emotional, obviously.
FINANCES No changes/progress

[Frita]

Ironically, having the opportunity to be injured has led to more emotional recalibration. I feel more calm, though not recharged.
PAID WORK/VOLUNTEERING: I volunteered for a food access nonprofit prepping mountains butternut squash for distribution. There are very limited spots. Although I was the only one, it was productive and the staff seemed okay. Long-term, it would be tough to build relationships with the setup. Oh, I threw down on the position, more out of curiosity and having several hours to kill.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/SPOUSE: I have been reading “See What You Made Me Do: The Dangers of Domestic Abuse That We Ignore, Explain Away, and Refuse to See” by Jess Hill. It is more nuanced and balanced in options/outcomes. I understand that some people stop abusing post-divorce; others don’t. My spouse may be more in the latter camp. Staying put, at least for now, allows for more predictability and peace. I don’t want to battle, nor spend what money I have on legal fees. He chose between multiple job offers and will be returning to work next month. This could be quite positive for me.
FAMILY/SON: My son was selected to go to Poland this summer. All expenses paid. I am excited for him to have the opportunity and who knows how it may shift his life. We will be having Thanksgiving just the two of us. There’s a lot to be grateful for.
SELF-CARE
Sleep: average 7 hours 54 minutes I no longer sleep in but now have a budding habit of lounging in bed before getting up.
Exercise: average 6,731 steps/day Ugh, DIY wall pilates, what was I thinking?! I am having to slow down and appreciate small things, like being able to go up and down stairs.
Food: My weight is stable. With my extra free time, I have been cooking/baking more time-intensive things. I am rather surprised that I can adjust my intake to the reduced physical activity. In the past, I would have been more likely to gain weight.
Hydration: 37 ounces water/day average My coffee consumption is still 1.5 times my average.
Health: no changes
Social: I have been doing less, some by choice and others due to my knee.
Mediation: I notice that I am better able to be with my experience, whether churning thoughts or peace.
DECLUTTERING Donations are paused until December 2nd. This is a lesson in the importance of me taking action. I am not up to managing Freecycle pickups.
FINANCES My credit score went up an additional 8 points. By putting our money into his own accounts, I no longer have access. Our existing joint account is minimal. My SS and pension is less as I was never a high earner. Turns out this occurred right after our kids were born…Part of me thinks that earning some of my own money that is only mine could be wise as a gap before SS and my pension (20% penalty if I take it now, 5% for each year before 60, avoiding that).

[Frita]

This week I am in a smoother rhythm.
VOLUNTEERING/PAID: No changes, this morning I did awake from a dream about agonizing over a 4 to 11 hour/week assistant gig to a IT professor with questionable social skills. None of it was a good fit or appealing. It was semi-lucid in that I was questioning myself the purpose of considering the position when it met none of my requirements.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/SPOUSE: No change, the above dream more aptly fits here. I accept that choosing to stay for now is safer for me (and a middle solution that is uncomfortable for people), that is a valid option, and I can change my mind if/when circumstances shift.
FAMILY/SON: Now that I am no longer available as a target, my spouse is trying to shift to our son, who is shutting that down. My spouse is accusing me of alienating him. Nope, he does that himself. I have decided to offer three healthy meals per week to support better nutrition without enabling his opportunity to cook and eat better. My mom, who really needs some support, is still in denial and quite difficult. I accept that if/when something over-the-top happens, I will just make the best decision I can.
SELF-CARE
Sleep: average 7 hours 44 minutes
Exercise: average 18,798 steps/day I sleep best above 20 K/day but am balancing healing/not reinjuring my knee I am still doing stretching throughout the day.
Food: My weight is stable.
Hydration: 88 ounces water/day average My coffee consumption is back to normal.
Health: no changes
Social: This week I noticed wanting to observe more than participate. I think that’s more of a reflection of needing to spend more emotional labor on myself. Oh, one of my son’s work colleagues, who is my vintage, told him I was “fit.” For whatever reason, I appreciate that.
Mediation: Ah, this is an enriching part of my life.
DECLUTTERING Donations are still paused until December 2nd. No Black Friday/adjacent purchases planned per the usual. My son’s gift is a fancy stethoscope he needs for school, which I was able to get on sale. I am thinking of a pass-the-parcel wrap job.
FINANCES: No changes. I have been doing a thought experiment of being able to take my pension with no penalty now. How would this change things?
UP NEXT: I am shifting to monthly updates.

[Frita]

This week I am in a smoother rhythm.
VOLUNTEERING/PAID: No changes, this morning I did awake from a dream about agonizing over a 4 to 11 hour/week assistant gig to a IT professor with questionable social skills. None of it was a good fit or appealing. It was semi-lucid in that I was questioning myself the purpose of considering the position when it met none of my requirements.
MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/SPOUSE: No change, the above dream more aptly fits here. I accept that choosing to stay for now is safer for me (and a middle solution that is uncomfortable for people), that is a valid option, and I can change my mind if/when circumstances shift.
FAMILY/SON: Now that I am no longer available as a target, my spouse is trying to shift to our son, who is shutting that down. My spouse is accusing me of alienating him. Nope, he does that himself. I have decided to offer three healthy meals per week to support better nutrition without enabling his opportunity to cook and eat better. My mom, who really needs some support, is still in denial and quite difficult. I accept that if/when something over-the-top happens, I will just make the best decision I can.
SELF-CARE
Sleep: average 7 hours 44 minutes
Exercise: average 18,798 steps/day I sleep best above 20 K/day but am balancing healing/not reinjuring my knee I am still doing stretching throughout the day.
Food: My weight is stable.
Hydration: 88 ounces water/day average My coffee consumption is back to normal.
Health: no changes
Social: This week I noticed wanting to observe more than participate. I think that’s more of a reflection of needing to spend more emotional labor on myself. Oh, one of my son’s work colleagues, who is my vintage, told him I was “fit.” For whatever reason, I appreciate that.
Mediation: Ah, this is an enriching part of my life.
DECLUTTERING Donations are still paused until December 2nd. No Black Friday/adjacent purchases planned per the usual. My son’s gift is a fancy stethoscope he needs for school, which I was able to get on sale. I am thinking of a pass-the-parcel wrap job.
FINANCES: No changes. I have been doing a thought experiment of being able to take my pension with no penalty now. How would this change things?
UP NEXT: I am shifting to monthly updates.

[ertyu]

Um, to what are you referring?

Taking this here bc it's a derail to AE's journal imo: what I was referring to is that way back when, when you started this journal / when you started talking more about your life, you seemed to have reservations about it in much the same vein as AE appears to: is it oversharing? iirc (which i might not - remember correctly, that is), will others judge and find this self-centered? And then in the past, you were angry when you interpreted someone as telling you that you should not share things in your journal but elsewhere. To me, it seemed like a projection -- which it might or might have not been, but it seemed to me like it was.

Anyway: I am not purporting that my opinion or impression is The Truth about you or whatever, so as always, feel free to disregard it wholesale if it's not useful. What I was trying to say in AE's journal is that I noticed what to me was a similarity (but might or might not have been objectively) -- that both of you had this thing about oversharing etc. If I stepped on toes, apologies, the point I was trying to make is that keeping some things to oneself is one's right, and so is allowing oneself to talk about one's inner reality. "Oversharing" as a word to me posits an observing other who is likely to judge and castigate one for taking too much space for one's inner life, which -- too much space according to who? Certainly shouldn't be according to whoever there assigned themselves this authority. That's where I was coming from.

[Frita]

Thank you for clarifying, ertyu. It was certainly surprising to see me mentioned by someone else in a third party’s journal. I am still unsure how my reference was intended to support AE. Interesting connection though, I will certainly consider it more.

As far as struggling to keep a journal here, I am more living life than reporting what I am doing or thinking about, not so much deem it as oversharing. All I would say is that there is a culture of silence (and silencing) in misogyny.

As far as the purpose of this particular journal, it was to figure things out. Some people are more skilled/patient at supporting others find their own answers than others. Others find making assumptions, fixing, and a less dialogue-based interaction more comfortable. Telling someone to do something sets up a win-lose, up-down dynamic that does not work particularly well and is quite disempowering, actually. I understand that asking open-ended to directed questions, as needed, may not be in everyones’ wheelhouses. I appreciate you bringing it up. Is there something about this that’s hitting a nerve for you?

[Biscuits and Gravy]

"Oversharing" as a word to me posits an observing other who is likely to judge and castigate one for taking too much space for one's inner life, which -- too much space according to who?

There’s also the safety aspect of oversharing. Is it safe to share X publicly and in writing while in a delicate situation (such as considering divorce)? I deleted my previous journal and self on this forum because of my impending divorce. It was a good call.

Not to pile on, but I also don’t have the sense of the forum being anti-therapy, but I don’t read it as broadly and vigorously as most, and I am very prone to projection. [shrugs]

[7Wannabe5]

ENTPs actually are known for "sharing" about their relationships, but this is because we tend to regard relationships as towards challenging puzzles to be solved*, and we also tend towards using conversation as one means by which we approach puzzles. "There's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable choice of clothing" is actually towards the optimistic-rational ENTP approach to our relationships up to the point where we break rather than bounce. Although, luckily, it is often the case that the "break" comes more in the form of a "breakthrough." Almost like coming to the realization that all this time you've been arguing forward from a false premise.

I shared a house with a male ENTP engineer/entrepreneur with genius level IQ for a few years and we would often have theoretical discussions about our relationships or relationships in general over coffee in the morning. Unfortunately, I must report that he let himself get in so deep trying to solve the puzzle of his relationship with a woman much younger than him with some drug problems who came from a wealthy academic-world family but made her living as a girlfriend-experience-escort, he ended up pretty much broke in his mid-60s and had to move into a $150/month anarchist collective. OTOH, he thought I was a stupid girl for actually on one occasion wasting my tears over the 70** year old bad boy ESTP I was in love with at the time.

*This is in some sense the nature of our commitment in relationship.
**Actually he was 75, but I didn't know that until I read his obituary last year, because he was so very "bad." (yet, sigh, as on the blackboard out of Borges, the Number of Times 7W5 will again enjoy sex with any man born early enough to know how to wear a hat and the all therein entailed is erased down to zero.)

[Frita]

There’s also the safety aspect of oversharing. Is it safe to share X publicly and in writing while in a delicate situation (such as considering divorce)? I deleted my previous journal and self on this forum because of my impending divorce. It was a good call.

Yes, I totally agree. I would have never publicly shared in an in-person setting or on some social media (I am on Facebook for community events.).

Actually, your journal being deleted gave me some confidence to just do it. Actually, it was quite helpful and gave me some insights I did not receive from counseling or reading and what not. I also learned some other nuggets I will share later.

I also don’t have the sense of the forum being anti-therapy…

While I limit my screen/form time to do my proverbial wood chopping, I don’t get the anti-therapy vibe either. We’re all different people with a variety of personalities, life stages, experiences, cultures, etc. (And I appreciate that!) Therapy, as well as the practitioner, can also make have limitations.

ENTPs actually are known for "sharing" about their relationships, but this is because we tend to regard relationships as towards challenging puzzles to be solved*, and we also tend towards using conversation as one means by which we approach puzzles. "

*This is in some sense the nature of our commitment in relationship.

This rings true to me. Without input from others, I was just missing some aspects I hadn’t considered. Another thing with the ENTP personality is that we can try one thing and be all-in until either shifting based on new information or trying out something else. This can frustrate the hell out of some people, especially the more black-and-white types, while we just find it organically fun.

[7Wannabe5]

This rings true to me. Without input from others, I was just missing some aspects I hadn’t considered.

Yes, and although INTJ type majority representated on this forum makes an excellent sounding board for ENTP type for some purposes, this is less true in the realm of relationships, because the INTJ relationship identity is the Private Agent. IOW, tertiary Fi makes them one of types least likely to talk about their sex/romantic life, although they also somehow vibe that their sex/romantic life is much better than that of the more conventionally minded ISTJ. However, it is also the case that the ENTJ like the ENTP is one of the types most likely to talk about their sex/romantic life, so this difference likely rests on very narrow fulcrum of perspective on Getting It On as subset of Getting Things Done. Anyways, the fact that your husband is an ISTJ leads me to believe that this is one of those situations in which an ENTP is engaged in opposites-attract trade of sexual functioning. Like how somebody who is a very good dancer can choose to either partner with another very good dancer OR lend support to a not very good dancer and get something else out of the deal. The "something else" can even still be roughly within the realm of sexuality. For example, a sexually fluidly functional female ENTP who is only moderately physically attractive could choose to partner with a very physically attractive but anxious/boring/conventional/predictable/people-pleasing in bed dysfunctional ISTJ or similar type, and I have done this a couple times when I needed/wanted somebody in the generalized role of "decent dapper date for the prom." However, since I know that you are quite physically attractive this is clearly not the nature of your must-ultimately-be-balanced trade within relationship. As always, it is likely that your tertiary Fe is somehow to blame for finding yourself in this predicament.

Another thing with the ENTP personality is that we can try one thing and be all-in until either shifting based on new information or trying out something else. This can frustrate the hell out of some people, especially the more black-and-white types, while we just find it organically fun.

Absolutely, especially in situations where the ENTP is in position of lead in relationship. I actually feel sorry for any ISFJ female who has found herself shackled to a very ENTP (7 on cusp of 8) male partner. My first husband was definitely Type 4 the Artist, with very strong I and F, but harder to call on S/N or P/J, so matched with my (7 towards 6) eNTP, the lack of clear leadership in our relationship was profound. However, to the extent that he allowed me to take the lead, he clearly found this tendency in me quite annoying, but not quite annoying enough to inspire him to take the clear lead. After 20 years of "two monkeys no banana" , it was almost shocking for me to date men who clearly had no issue with taking the lead. Although it did also eventually become clear to me that I prefer/need/want a whole lotta long flexible leash if/when I am clearly in the follow. It's also sometimes amusing to observe the behavior of the sort of man who so clearly prefers to be in the lead, but is attempting to be more balanced in relationship. I think sometimes men don't realize that the reason they are sometimes driven nutz by the preferences of the women in their lives is inherent to their need to inhabit the lead.

[Frita]

Yes, and although INTJ type majority representated on this forum makes an excellent sounding board for ENTP type for some purposes, this is less true in the realm of relationships, because the INTJ relationship identity is the Private Agent.

I appreciate the term “sounding board.” In no way was I searching for a Dear Abby advice column setup to tell me what to do.

As always, it is likely that your tertiary Fe is somehow to blame for finding yourself in this predicament.

Maybe, sometimes I just wing things with varying results. The younger me found “balance” in marrying my opposite…and my spouse’s social mask is quite lovely.

My first husband was definitely Type 4 the Artist, with very strong I and F, but harder to call on S/N or P/J, so matched with my (7 towards 6) eNTP, the lack of clear leadership in our relationship was profound. However, to the extent that he allowed me to take the lead, he clearly found this tendency in me quite annoying, but not quite annoying enough to inspire him to take the clear lead. After 20 years of "two monkeys no banana" , it was almost shocking for me to date men who clearly had no issue with taking the lead. Although it did also eventually become clear to me that I prefer/need/want a whole lotta long flexible leash if/when I am clearly in the follow. It's also sometimes amusing to observe the behavior of the sort of man who so clearly prefers to be in the lead, but is attempting to be more balanced in relationship. I think sometimes men don't realize that the reason they are sometimes driven nutz by the preferences of the women in their lives is inherent to their need to inhabit the lead.

Interesting. My spouse wants to be in charge but blame others if the need arises. He is too much of a people pleaser to blame anyone but his mom and me. (If he can cultivate a fawning assistant or work buddy who will codependently take over his responsibility, he’ll do that.). I prefer to mix it up with joint decision making but am in the long leash or expansive corral (latter preferred) camp.

I still need to do my update but will get to that mañana.

[7Wannabe5]

I prefer to mix it up with joint decision making

Yeah, good luck with that partnered with any man of our generational dating range. I would suggest that the best one could hope for would be somebody significantly devoted to honoring one's preferences while sequestered in his domain or subject to his purpose. I do hold out some hope for the youth. One of the modular elegancies of solo polyamorous practice is that it allows for gracefully disjoint decision making. However, when combined with the practice of frugality/resource conservation, this may result in the pattern language requirement of "couple's space" in some modular relationship linkages only being constituted in the form of "the spacious Lincoln SUV he inherited from recently deceased father bi-weekly parked in lot next to abandoned pickle factory."

IOW, solo polyamory allows for whatever size "room of one's own" you prefer, while still accepting one's partners realms of dominance. IOW, it's easy to concede the lead for 3 days or 3 months if you hold your own realm elsewhere/when in which you are in charge. However, this generally does require loosening the reins of monogamy in order to form fair/balanced contract. In simple terms, if you want a relationship in which you are free to move to France for three years and/or crew on a yacht for three months and/or devote all of your energies to the study of mollusks, etc. etc. then it's unfair or unrealistic to expect your partners to do without the benefits of female companionship entirely while you retain/exhibit the freedom to do pretty much whatever you want. Therefore, one of the means my which practitioners of polyamory inhabit the emotional space of compersion (opposite of jealousy) is by recognizing the contributions your partners other partners are making towards your ability to have your freedom while maintaining long-term relationships on some continuing and/or renewable basis. Oddly, this is true even if/when your partners other partners insist on contract of monogamy, because the eventuality of break-up exists, and polyamorous practice is inherently more resilient than brittle-breaking serial monogamous practice.