Hello everyone

[GoatHerd24]

Hello! I read Jacob's posts the ERE website for many years starting roughly a decade ago. I have put into practice what I could from the ERE mindset and found initial success, but life has changed and I have a good bit of work to do as a "reset to ERE principles" of sorts.

Overall, costs were at their lowest and savings at their highest about 7 years ago, and my savings rate has been low for so long that I wonder: "Can I ever get back to chipping away toward financial freedom?" I believe the answer is yes, and want to make it happen.

My main obstacle holding me back?: things have changed since kids came into the picture.

I am not blaming the choice to have kids (or the kids themselves), because in theory there is only so much unavoidable cost to raise children. Rather, I am blaming my own choices. I readily admit I have choosen to spend on activities that clearly provide enjoyment my kids. I find it hard to say "no" to myself as much as to them. That's because I have numerous examples of friends/kid family friends, where they spend way more than me on kids. Despite the similar household incomes. Add to this the internal desire to clothe them with quality things (from a store), and the costs add up.

So, why do I make choices which work against ERE goals? I feel guilt. First, I think I should be able to provide such seeminly simple things (quality clothes, a few fun activities) because I am not in poverty, despite not being well off. I never earned a ton; instead I just historically spent little. Until kids, that is. Second, my guilt doubles when I see close friends provide their kids so much (esp. in activities)...and, even though I am providing much more than is necessary, I pale in comparison. So, I spend to avoid both these guilts.

The big drawback is it has taken ERE out of my grasp, unless I change something. But how to make a change, without thinking I am failing to adequaly provide for my kids? That's my sticking point.

And so, this is my mindset as I join this forum. I hope to grow and find some balance and freedom through thoughtful participation here.

A little about me/us:

We like outdoors. Being active. Reading. Games.

Thank you for reading!

[ertyu]

How old are these kids? What are they into?

Here's a thought: find a way to get them on board. If you just decide, top-down, to cut spending, they will consider it a deprivation and you will get resistance. So consider how you can turn it into something you do together: can they get on board with you to save for a big ticket item they want? What age-appropriate ways have you thought of to get their buy-in?

[GoatHerd24]

ertyu-

I'll do my best, while hopefully preserving somewhat anonymity. Thanks for the reply.

One kid is in the 1st half of elementary school and one is preschool aged. They both love reading, playing imaginative games, and playgrounds. All of which are free/low cost. Worked hard to foster these loves early on, for reasons other than cost.

The older one is the one who has started activities (stuff like rec league soccer or baseball), but recently has enjoyed self-learning gymnastics...and so is now taking part in a weekly gymnastics class to learn. Good example of something not necessary, which I struggle with when choosing to do/not do it (financially). The cost is steep I think, over $100/mo.

So things just add up. Even in a rec league, where you at least need the basic equipment, it's not free. Found what we could second hand. But still spend about $50/season + car/gas expenses to attend. Luckily our youngest has lots of hand-me-downs, and is yet to care about activities. Just playing in whatever environment we're in. But I know it'll come one day as well.

[jacob]

The older one is the one who has started activities (stuff like rec league soccer or baseball), but recently has enjoyed self-learning gymnastics...and so is now taking part in a weekly gymnastics class to learn. Good example of something not necessary, which I struggle with when choosing to do/not do it (financially). The cost is steep I think, over $100/mo.

I think this is worthwhile and something I would spend money on (if I had kids) but IF AND ONLY IF the child was into it and wanted to go. If and once they start skipping the activity because "they don't feel like it today" or "they're too busy with homework or other activities", it's not worth it. Conversely, if they are really into it, it's a small price to pay for something that's likely formative of their eventual character.

[GoatHerd24]

Here's a thought: find a way to get them on board. If you just decide, top-down, to cut spending, they will consider it a deprivation and you will get resistance. So consider how you can turn it into something you do together: can they get on board with you to save for a big ticket item they want? What age-appropriate ways have you thought of to get their buy-in?

I agreed top-down is hard, especially as a kid ages. For the older one, I give them coin change from cash transactions to work on math + saving. They get to spend it on what they want, but must save up for that thing they want to do so. I like to think that develops some awareness of saving for a big item, but I am not sure.

My mind goes to somehow showing the benefit of me not working, and thus being around/playing more. I've taken a large chunk of time off before, and could work to reference that as an ultimate goal of what I am trying to acheive. But perhaps I need baby steps first.

I do think something like saving up cash together in a piggy bank for some activity we desire to do together would be great. Or, for say a gym mat which could increase their ability to do fun gymnastics stuff at home.

I also could try to include them in bike maintenance. To show how we can fix what's broken, not think about buying a replacement.

IF AND ONLY IF the child was into it and wanted to go...it's a small price to pay for something that's likely formative of their eventual character.

I certainly agree on only doing things they want to do, when it comes to activities which cost time and money.

I think this litmus test of "will it benefit their development/character" is a nice way to filter between worthwhile and not-worthwhile costs. It also gives me some motivation for the hours I do currently spend working. I'd just have to not let it become a slippery slope with a low threshold, as to make nearly anything apply.

[Slevin]

IDK your finances or your life, but I would put gymnastics (and dance) training for my kids as one of the highest tiers of spending priority (provided they like it) as the physical ROI of young people who do gymnastics into their (early) teens is absolutely incredible. I spent a lot of my 20s doing gymnastics / dance / capoiera / handbalacing / acrobatics / climbing, and the difference in ability for adults being able to pick up physical tasks (and also stay healthy and lean) between the former kid gymnasts / dancers and everyone else was enormous. It just builds up an unmatched level of proprioception and relationship with the body that will pay off for decades across most physical tasks.

[GoatHerd24]

It just builds up an unmatched level of proprioception and relationship with the body that will pay off for decades across most physical tasks.

Thanks for the perspective here. I certainly enjoy having the ability as an adult to pick physical skills up quite quickly. I should not discount such a benefit, when doing a cost-benefit anaylsis.

[delay]

That's because I have numerous examples of friends/kid family friends, where they spend way more than me on kids.

Thanks for your journal! The choice of whom to compare yourself with sets the frame of reference. For example, if you compare yourself to a richer family, being frugal means doing what they do minus a few things, so in fact you are not frugal at all. When you compare yourself to someone who earns less, you can show largesse to your kids while being actually frugal.

Another approach is to compare the jobs you have in mind for each dollar you earn. Would you rather save that dollar or spend it on your kids? If you'd rather save it, what are you saving it for? How does it feel to assign a dollar to your saving goal compared to assigning the same dollar to your kids?

[loutfard]

As a child, my parents successfully encouraged frugality in me. Lent being important part of their catholic faith, they encouraged my sibling and me to find ways to save a little bit here and there. Our common goal was to help a child in need.

We'd consciously forego desert or do odd jobs at home to earn money to give away. This being limited in time made it much more feasible for us as children I guess.