7Wannabe5-Take 10-The Graduate/The Grandma

[Frita]

It sounds like your father tempered his shaming with humor? For me, being raised in a very religious area reinforced the shaming messages I received at home. Paradoxically, looking good was highly valued. There were good aspects like community activities, working together, considering others, not wasting resources, planning ahead, etc. Plenty of contradiction…and I still have echoes of it, though I am more aware/accepting/integrated now days.

Shadow work can be quite the rabbit hole. Enjoy the trip exploring public figures that rub you wrong, sexy men, and everything in between and around the edges. It’s kind of a “Wherever you go, there you are situation.” I think we can evolve yet still have contradictions. For me, there is no end to accomplish and perhaps an optimal result would be parenting a kid who can choose more skillful behavior than myself without some of the generational baggage.

If you were a comic or dystopian short/story novel character who experienced some event that transformed you in a dramatic way, how would you shift? In which direction would you explore?

[7Wannabe5]

What would happen if you proceeded without a targeted paradigm?

Well, I would say that it has been my experience that to the extent I don't select, create, habitate, or invent my own framework/alternative-universe/paradigm, then somebody/something else will take care of that for me. IOW, nature abhors a vacuum. IOW, freedom is a creative act, but as with any creative act, there must be some form of discipline or boundaries or structure. For example, if I stake my claim by saying something to myself such as "I am going to design the sort of lifestyle that would be found North of Post-Modern yet West of Integral", there must already be a reasonable amount of intersubjective shared meaning in that statement.IMPORTANT NOTE: There isnt.

If you were a comic or dystopian short/story novel character who experienced some event that transformed you in a dramatic way, how would you shift? In which direction would you explore?

This is a somewhat difficult question to answer, because I already feel somewhat like I am living in a comic-dystopian novel with weird shit happening all the time, some portion of the chaos being due to my own NeTi "flying monkey" choices. However, I also feel pretty grounded by love in my simple-minded old peasant woman tertiary Fe, "Bake bread, Hug human", and ever on she will endure.

[Frita]

Well, I would say that it has been my experience that to the extent I don't select, create, habitate, or invent my own framework/alternative-universe/paradigm, then somebody/something else will take care of that for me.

This is a somewhat difficult question to answer, because I already feel somewhat like I am living in a comic-dystopian novel with weird shit happening all the time, some portion of the chaos being due to my own NeTi "flying monkey" choices. However, I also feel pretty grounded by love in my simple-minded old peasant woman tertiary Fe, "Bake bread, Hug human", and ever on she will endure.

Ugh, it makes sense not wanting to have someone else put you in their box. Having/creating your own framework is certainly one way to avoid that. Then the paradigms shape those views, decisionmaking, and goals. It seems like you have consistency in paradigms: mix of individualism and collectivism/progressivism and traditionalism/rationalism and empiricism, optimism, sustainability, and a bit more free will than determinism. How those play out in each framework is more of the wiggle. In the past, how did you create your new framework?

LOL on the flying monkeys/chaos creation. (I like change myself but, as you know, subcontract out my chaos creation.) Connection, I have an inner tiecamp cook who sounds similar to your old peasant woman. (Personally, I think there’s some epigenetic programming in that one for me. Mine age shifts.)

I digress. Is it different living in a comic-dystopian situation of your own making versus that of someone else? I think of reason one Octavia Butler short story after another, stopping to ponder, “This is my reality now. How to I proceed?” with lots of “Now what?” questioning like it’s a whodunnit.

It shall be interesting to witness your process as you flesh out the next framework.

[7Wannabe5]

Continuation of discussion started in AE's journal:

I do see a compelling illustration as to why not ask an AI to do my thinking for me when what I'm looking for is to do some serious thinking outside of the strictures of the current cultural paradigm, considering that my understanding is that LLMs are trained on ~*all the information we've put onto the internet* aka a text-based approximate repository of the current cultural paradigm, even if you point them in the direction of countercultural sources like ERE/Wilber/etc

I agree that there is almost certainly some "stupid" in the mix. However, whether or to what extent the "stupid" was coming from me/my experiment, the current cultural paradigm, or the AI employed as a tool is still up for grabs. I went back and read over the long form transcript of my dialogue with the AI, and now believe that I should point the dial back more towards "me" as source of "stupid."

The thinking I was attempting to do was based on this comment I made above:

One of my difficulties or "stuckyness" at the moment is that I do feel like I have somewhat outgrown my ideal of The Adventure Cottage Library that I mentioned in my introductory post above 11 years ago. It seems a bit flat to me now, but I also haven't fully fleshed out a more "dimensional" model/ideal.

It is my personal belief/feeling that "freedom" has more to do with firmly holding perspective of self-authoring (or levels above) than it has to do with financial independence or even frugality, although these are obviously helpful constructs. That's why I smiled at the passion you expressed in your above post. ENTPs very much enjoy lifestyle planning or imagining the future. This can be clearly seen in the early self-authoring journals of genius-level ENTPs such as Benjamin Franklin or Leonardo da Vinci. This is also evident in the emotional optimism of ENFP Annie singing "The Sun Will Come Up Tomorrow!" For the Explorer/Enthusiast (primary Ne), where we are currently at is almost irrelevant compared to where we are heading (the bright yummy interesting unknown) and who's at the helm (ME!)

One of the things I love about "ERE" (the book) which I came upon by way of "The Renaissance Soul" (having also previously read many other lifestyle planning books inclusive of "YMOYL" and also system-level design books related to permaculture) is how it generalizes lifestyle planning. IOW, it provides more structural freedom than most lifestyle planning books. More recently, by way of this forum and also another somewhat similar forum, I became aware of Ken Wilber's lifestyle planning books which offer a level of structural freedom comparable to that of "ERE", but differently distributed. IOW, the vast majority of lifestyle design efforts can be entirely tucked into "ERE" or "Integral" , but "ERE" and "Integral" can't entirely be tucked into each other. My extremely weak metaphor will be they are like a giant TinkerToys kit and a giant Play-Dough kit. So, being an eNTP, I obviously wanted to experiment with what I could make using both of them. My choice to also utilize AI in this attempt was almost incidental (new tool I had at hand), but I was fuzzily considering the extent to which an LLM can be queried like a flexible mock database; an AI can answer questions such as "What can I make for dinner using chicken, rhubarb, and chard that would be both delicious and nutritious?"

So, after I completed the first 3 steps of my "experiment" using just my own muddled brain, notebook, spreadsheet, thesaurus, etymology reference, and a few other internet based resources that could have also been accessed in paper format, and then chose my initial updated phrase with which I might replace/update/expand "Adventure Cottage Library" as my lifestyle design "title" , the first prompt I offered to AI (IMPORTANT NOTE: I made no mention of ERE/Wilber/MBTI or anything at all to the AI prior to this initial prompt which started our conversation.) was:

Prompt 1: How would you interpret the meaning of winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom ?

AI: The phrase "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" is a poetic and evocative combination of words that suggests a complex and intriguing personality. Here's a breakdown of each word and its possible interpretation within the context of the phrase:

Winsome: This word implies a charming, attractive, and engaging quality. It suggests someone who is pleasant and easy to like.
Whorl: This term can refer to a spiral pattern or a ring of hair. In this context, it could symbolize a unique, distinctive, or even eccentric aspect of the person's personality.
Wherewithal: This word means the necessary means or resources for doing something. It could suggest a person who is resourceful, capable, or self-sufficient.
Wisdom: This word implies knowledge, understanding, and discernment. It suggests someone who is thoughtful, intelligent, and experienced.

When combined, these words paint a picture of a person who is charming, unique, resourceful, and wise. They suggest someone who is both attractive and intelligent, with a distinctive personality and the ability to navigate life with confidence and grace.

So far, so good, but stupid-me wanted the phrase to be understood as towards an aspirational lifestyle descriptor, so:

Prompt 2: If this phrase were to be applied to a lifestyle rather than a person, how might you describe such a lifestyle?

AI: A "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" lifestyle could be characterized as one that is:

Unique and distinctive: It stands out from the crowd, embracing individuality and creativity.
Resourceful and self-sufficient: It emphasizes independence and the ability to navigate challenges with ingenuity.
Wise and thoughtful: It prioritizes knowledge, understanding, and discernment, making informed choices and seeking meaningful experiences.
Charming and engaging: It exudes a positive and inviting energy, fostering connections and creating a welcoming atmosphere.

In essence, this lifestyle would be one that is both captivating and fulfilling, blending a unique sense of self with a grounded and thoughtful approach to life.

What's not to like? Give me more!

Prompt 3:What might a day in the life of somebody with this lifestyle look like?

AI: A Day in the Life of a "Winsome Whorl Wherewithal Wisdom" Lifestyle

Morning:

Mindful Meditation: Begins the day with a quiet moment of reflection, perhaps practicing meditation or yoga to center the mind and body.
Creative Pursuit: Engages in a creative activity, such as painting, writing, or playing a musical instrument.
Learning and Growth: Devotes time to intellectual pursuits, like reading, attending a lecture, or taking an online course.

Afternoon:

Nature Connection: Spends time outdoors, hiking, gardening, or simply enjoying the natural world.
Community Engagement: Participates in a local community activity, volunteering, or attending a social gathering.
Skill Development: Practices a new skill or hobby, challenging themselves to learn something new.

Evening:

Quality Time: Connects with loved ones, sharing a meal, playing games, or engaging in meaningful conversation.
Mindful Relaxation: Winds down with a relaxing activity, such as reading, taking a bath, or listening to music.
Reflection and Gratitude: Before bed, reflects on the day, expressing gratitude for the experiences and lessons learned.

This lifestyle emphasizes a balance between creativity, intellectual growth, community involvement, and personal well-being. It's a way of living that is both fulfilling and meaningful, allowing individuals to express their unique personalities and contribute positively to the world around them.

More, more, more, sez eNTP. (and now we are at the juncture to which I short-handed prompt path in AE's journal)

Prompt 4: Please provide a detailed third-party narrative of a specific day in such a lifestyle.

AI: A Day in the Life of Anya

Anya woke to the soft glow of sunlight filtering through her bedroom window. She stretched, a smile spreading across her face as she recalled a particularly vivid dream. After a brief meditation, she began her morning routine, which included a gentle yoga practice and a cup of freshly brewed herbal tea.

Once her morning ritual was complete, Anya headed to her studio, a cozy space filled with canvases, paints, and brushes. She spent the next few hours lost in the world of art, her strokes bold and expressive. As she worked, she listened to classical music, allowing the melodies to inspire her creativity.

After a nourishing lunch of homemade soup and a side salad, Anya decided to explore a nearby nature preserve. She packed a small backpack with a book, a thermos of tea, and a notebook for sketching. As she wandered through the trails, she was captivated by the beauty of the forest, the rustling leaves, and the songs of the birds. She stopped to sketch a particularly striking tree, capturing its intricate branches and the dappled sunlight filtering through its leaves.

In the afternoon, Anya attended a local community workshop on sustainable gardening. She was passionate about environmental issues and enjoyed learning new ways to reduce her ecological footprint. The workshop was informative and inspiring, and Anya left with a newfound enthusiasm for growing her own food.

As the sun began to set, Anya returned home and prepared a simple yet delicious dinner of roasted vegetables and quinoa. She enjoyed her meal on her patio, watching the sky turn shades of orange and purple. After dinner, she curled up on her couch with a good book, losing herself in the story until her eyelids grew heavy. As she drifted off to sleep, Anya felt a deep sense of contentment and peace. Her day had been filled with creativity, connection, and a profound appreciation for the natural world.

The discussion goes on for great length, with many variations on possible narratives generated and queries related to resources needed and risks inherent in lifestyle, but at a later juncture I do ask the AI what MBTI type and Integral Level it would assign to somebody with "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" lifestyle, and the response was ENFP at Level Teal, which is actually fairly insightful, since I am likely currently vibing more towards "F" than usual and reflected this in my initial choice of word clump.

Anyways, my current perspective after cold reviewing the transcript is that beyond the obvious Rorschach test Reflection and/or something akin to Optimistic Narcissism in the exercise, it was more my drill down to specificity than my use of the term "lifestyle" that generated the rather bland Anya narrative. However, when I first considered the "Anya story problem" I was already in etymological-research as part of project mode, so I jumped to researching the history of the usage of "lifestyle" and found that it is quite strongly tied to "consumerism." So, one note I made for myself towards improving my design as I ran it through second OODA loop (not yet attempted) was to try to not use the term "lifestyle" in developing my model of "that which can no longer be easily described" without the use of the term "lifestyle." I even consulted with my DS36 who studied linguistics, but to limited avail.

Further relevant note would be that I also did spend a week attempting to live the "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" lifestyle as outlined in the Morning-to-Evening activities template generated just prior to the Anya narrative. It started out great and then rather rapidly degenerated as external reality and the extent to which my true nature vibes a bit more dark, cynical, flinty, slothful, selfish, and/or inclined towards a taste for surrealistic-nililism than the nature of Anya intruded. Likely very much towards what Jane Austen meant when she described/critiqued her character Anne Elliot in "Persuasion" as being "too good." So, the extent to which I included a bit too much of my "stupid" backseat rider tertiary Ne function in the mix was also clearly contributive to the blandness of the Anya narrative. So, I ended the week back in the mode of imagining my future as being more like where I was likely to be heading after finding myself sitting in a dirty plastic bucket seat in a random, unknown too-small airport, getting hit on by a character resembling a down and out recently released from mental health care facility version of Bill Murray, while some fucked up climate change tsunami event roars into being and browns out the lights. And, therein lies the difference between Fe and Ti influence on Ne.

However, one further perhaps somewhat interesting bit generated from this experiment was:

Prompt: How might you describe the opposite of this lifestyle in 4 words?

AI: Mundane, conventional, restricted, uninspired.

Prompt: Please describe a day in the life of this opposing lifestyle.

AI:

A Day in the Life of the Opposite Lifestyle

Morning:

Alarm clock: Wake up abruptly to a blaring alarm clock.
Rush: Quickly get ready for work, feeling stressed and hurried.
Commute: Spend a long and stressful commute, battling traffic and feeling overwhelmed.

Afternoon:

Work: Sit at a desk for hours, performing repetitive tasks and feeling unfulfilled.
Lunch break: Eat a quick, unhealthy meal at a nearby fast-food restaurant.
More work: Return to work and continue with the same monotonous routine.

Evening:

Dinner: Eat a hastily prepared meal while watching TV.
Relaxation: Attempt to unwind by watching mindless TV shows or scrolling through social media.
Bed: Go to sleep feeling exhausted and uninspired.

This lifestyle is characterized by a lack of creativity, fulfillment, and personal growth. It is often driven by external pressures and expectations, leading to feelings of stress, boredom, and dissatisfaction.

IOW, pretty much exactly what we are all attempting to escape through better lifestyle design. The irony is that to the extent that the design entails consumption or smells like a market demographic, the finger-traps ever more tightly embrace the puny primate's paw as she points towards her preferences.

[Frita]

Did you ask AI for middling options and/or shifting one variable? That could be interesting.

[7Wannabe5]

Did you ask AI for middling options and/or shifting one variable? That could be interesting.

Yes, I played round with it a bit and generated around 10 other narratives as well as some other lifestyle related artifacts. I didn't attempt to tweak it endlessly, because the purpose of adopting an iterative OODA like minumum-viable-product each loop framework or methodology was to keep me from my natural tendency of going sideways or getting stuck in the Os of Observe/Orient for too long before getting to DA Decide/Act and also a level of Done. Like most eNTPs, I am highly project oriented, but only in contexts that provide me with a great deal of autonomy in alignment with my interests. And, even in these best case scenarios, getting to Done may be problematic. For example, my recent acquisition of grad degree was par for the course with my historical performance in academic setting, basically a rough mix of A's and E's resulting in 3.5 GPA overall, but because I was granted almost 100% autonomy over my final project and it's topic, I also received 100% of the points possible. However, since even 10 weeks is a looooong time for my flying monkey brain to focus on just one project, getting it to Done as fast as I could and then whipping through another 8 variations on the theme worked better for me than the typical building block approach which often results in boredom/procrastination, because I can see the end before I am finished. Actually, maybe that's not it, holding a vision is motivational. More like writing all the steps before I accomplish them makes the project into a boring, overly predetermined, set of tasks. I think maybe this is also towards the problem I've had with with the Getting Things Done system. I rarely feel anxious because carrying too much of my task list in my brain, and I more often feel bored or trapped seeing the tasks spelled out on paper or in my planner. OTOOH, generating just a few Next Actions on the fly doesn't bog me down and does help with efficiency.

So, because I do so loathe routine beyond the handful of habitual tasks I can perform on auto-pilot on a daily basis (I try to avoid scheduling weekly tasks for this reason), I recognize that my ideal lifestyle design will include a mechanism for keeping it fresh for me. Actually, although my results thus far are towards the opposite, that was one of the reasons I wanted to engage AI in my design. I wanted it to serve as sort of a form of intelligent random number generator, but I'm not yet sure how I want it to randomize my lifestyle. This might be a bit too much like trying to tickle yourself or the sort of thing that usually happens when you let a flip of a coin make a decision for you.

Anyways, here are a few of the other artifacts from the first round of this experiment.

Prompt: Please provide an alternative narrative of day in this lifestyle.

AI:


A Day in the Life of Ethan

Ethan woke to the sound of his alarm clock blaring a jazz standard. He hit snooze once, then rolled over and reached for his phone. After scrolling through social media for a few minutes, he got up and made his way to the kitchen. He brewed a pot of strong coffee and toasted a slice of sourdough bread.

While enjoying his breakfast, Ethan read the morning news. He was particularly interested in articles about climate change and renewable energy. After finishing his coffee, he headed to his home office to start his workday. As a freelance writer, Ethan worked from home, which allowed him to set his own schedule.

In the afternoon, Ethan took a break from his work to go for a run. He loved the feeling of the wind in his hair and the rhythm of his footsteps. After his run, he showered and changed into comfortable clothes. He then spent some time gardening in his backyard. He enjoyed tending to his plants and watching them grow.

In the evening, Ethan met up with some friends at a local coffee shop. They chatted about their lives, their work, and the latest news. After a few hours, Ethan said goodbye to his friends and walked home. He spent the rest of the evening reading a book and listening to music. Before going to bed, he wrote in his journal, reflecting on the day's events and expressing gratitude for his blessings.

Prompt: Please provide another day in life narrative of this lifestyle with emphasis on "whorl."

AI:

A Day in the Life of Oliver

Oliver woke to the sound of his alarm clock blaring a quirky, offbeat tune. He stretched, a mischievous grin spreading across his face. After a brief meditation, he began his morning routine with a cup of coffee and a crossword puzzle.

Once his morning ritual was complete, Oliver headed to his workshop, a chaotic yet charming space filled with tools, gadgets, and unfinished projects. He spent the next few hours tinkering with a new invention, his mind buzzing with ideas. As he worked, he listened to eclectic music, a mix of jazz, rock, and classical.

After a hearty lunch of homemade chili and cornbread, Oliver decided to explore a local flea market. He loved hunting for unique and unusual items, and the flea market was the perfect place to find them. He spent the afternoon browsing through the stalls, bargaining with vendors, and discovering hidden treasures.

In the evening, Oliver attended a costume party hosted by a friend. He had spent the previous week crafting a truly outlandish costume, complete with intricate details and unexpected elements. As he arrived at the party, he was the center of attention, his costume drawing admiring glances and curious questions.

As he danced the night away, Oliver couldn't help but feel a sense of exhilaration and freedom. His "whorl" lifestyle was all about embracing his unique quirks and expressing himself in unconventional ways. He knew that he was living life on his own terms, and he wouldn't have it any other way.

Prompt: Could you describe some risks that might be associated with the "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" lifestyle?

AI:

Risks Associated with the "Winsome Whorl Wherewithal Wisdom" Lifestyle

While the "winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom" lifestyle offers many benefits, it's important to acknowledge the potential risks involved:

Isolation: A focus on individuality and unique pursuits can sometimes lead to social isolation. It's essential to maintain strong connections with others.
Financial Instability: A non-traditional or entrepreneurial lifestyle may involve financial risks and uncertainties.
Burnout: Pursuing multiple passions or creative endeavors can be demanding and lead to burnout.
Judgment: Embracing individuality and unconventional paths may attract criticism or judgment from others.
Overwhelm: Trying to do too much or pursue too many goals at once can lead to feelings of overwhelm and stress.
Lack of Structure: A highly individualized lifestyle may lack the structure and routine that some people find beneficial.
It's important to balance the benefits of this lifestyle with these potential risks. By being mindful of these challenges and taking steps to mitigate them, individuals can enjoy a fulfilling and sustainable way of life.

Prompt: Please provide a detailed budget for the winsome whorl wherewithal wisdom lifestyle at sustainable level of $12,000 per year or less.

AI:

A Sustainable Budget for the "Winsome Whorl Wherewithal Wisdom" Lifestyle ($12,000 per year or less)
Note: This budget is a general guideline and may need to be adjusted based on your specific circumstances and location.

Monthly Budget ($1,000)
Housing:

Rent or mortgage: $400 (Consider renting a room, sharing an apartment, or exploring affordable housing options)
Utilities: $100 (Electricity, water, gas, internet)
Food:

Groceries: $200 (Prioritize whole foods, seasonal produce, and cooking at home)
Dining out: $50 (Limit dining out to special occasions)
Transportation:

Public transportation: $50
Car expenses (if applicable): $100 (Gas, insurance, maintenance)
Personal Care:

Hygiene products: $20
Clothing: $30
Healthcare: $50 (Consider a high-deductible health plan with a health savings account)
Entertainment:

Hobbies and activities: $50
Books, music, and entertainment: $50
Savings and Investments:

Emergency fund: $50
Retirement savings: $50 (If possible)
Miscellaneous:

Gifts and donations: $30
Pet expenses (if applicable): $50
Total: $1,000

Strategies for Sustainable Living:
Minimalism: Focus on experiences over possessions and declutter your belongings.
Cooking at home: Prepare meals at home to save money and eat healthier.
Reduce consumption: Limit unnecessary spending and find ways to reduce your ecological footprint.
Bartering and trading: Exchange goods or services with others to save money.
Community involvement: Participate in community activities and events to reduce costs and build relationships.
DIY projects: Learn to do things yourself to save money and develop new skills.
Sustainable choices: Choose sustainable products and practices whenever possible.
Remember, this budget is a starting point, and you may need to adjust it based on your specific circumstances and priorities. The key is to be mindful of your spending habits and find ways to live a fulfilling life while minimizing your environmental impact and financial burden.

[AxelHeyst]

This is interesting. Some preamble:

The definition of the word 'lifestyle' is "the way in which a person or group lives."

A definition of design: to create, fashion, execute, or construct according to plan : devise, contrive.

Lifestyle design, then, is "to create, fashion, execute, or construct the way in which a person or group lives according to plan."

Some people don't consciously create, fashion, plan, etc their way of life. They just live their way of life by sort of implicitly copying what people around them do. They've never really thought about it.

Other people become aware of the possibility of planning and executing modifications to their own way of life, either by becoming dissatisfied with their current way of life or by becoming inspired by observing a different way of life, or both.

Another distinction: consumer mindset vs. anti-consumer mindset vs. producer mindset. Consumer mindset = satisfaction in life is achieved by consuming goods and experiences. Anti-consumer mindset: satisfaction in life is NOT primarily achieved by consuming goods and experiences. Producer mindset: satisfaction in life is primarily achieved by producing things (inclusive of goods and experiences) for oneself - the creative act.

A lifestyle is itself an object of consumption when the approach to it is one of passive reception/selection. You can almost literally "go shopping" for lifestyles via magazines, the internet, youtube videos, etc. You could put "tech bro" lifestyle in your shopping cart, or "permie homesteader", or "west coast EDM festival-goer", or "dirtbag climber", or even 'gutter punk'. Insofar as what you're doing is *selecting* lifestyle options from something like a menu (the menu exists on youtube, instagram, pinterest...), you are consuming the lifestyle. It is possible to 'consume' / adopt / select an anti-consumerist lifestyle (Seattle WTO Protestor vibes? Occupy chic? old school hippie? anarchist squatter?) regardless of what the resultant GDP throughput of the lifestyle is.

A lifestyle is itself an object of production when the approach to it is one of intentional production, i.e., the perspective that one's way of life is an object of creativity (art, even). A lifestyle could be thoroughly constructed and 'not' an 'object of consumption' even if the GDP throughput of that life is very high! (The 2x2 basically makes itself, I won't even bother).

What's the distinction between the two (lifestyle as object of consumption vs. lifestyle as object of creativity)? CCCCCC, I think. Which implies that lifestyle creation/production is a skill.

--

With the above in mind, I find your experiments with AI hard to figure out. I can't tell if what you described is a process of production/creativity or AI-assisted lifestyle consumption. It vibes like the LLM was auto-generating a customized menu of options to select from, which is what I was originally reacting against. However, you put a lot of thought and self-understanding into the process of prompting the AI. I don't know.

The LLM outputs you posted all strike me as banal. I'm curious to see what an LLM would spit out if I did a similar experiment to yours and how I'd feel about it, having seeded it with my own interests and preferences and self-understanding (maybe your outputs seem banal to me only because I'm not the audience), but not enough to actually do it. My own evolving process of lifestyle-tuning is deeply rewarding -- the process in and of itself, not just the results of it, although those are nice too -- and so I'm a solid meh on outsourcing it, even if I didn't have reservations about the paradigm-limitations of the machine.

[Frita]

Interesting, what takeaways have you learned to apply to your lifestyle?

[7Wannabe5]

Some people don't consciously create, fashion, plan, etc their way of life. They just live their way of life by sort of implicitly copying what people around them do. They've never really thought about it.

Yes, and this "copy" mechanism would have been true of just about everybody prior to the Modern era. That is why lifestyle design is rooted and defined in the context of the Modern era as is the notion of consumerism.

Other people become aware of the possibility of planning and executing modifications to their own way of life, either by becoming dissatisfied with their current way of life or by becoming inspired by observing a different way of life, or both.

I agree. As humans no longer spent their entire lives in the same village as their grandparents, they came to know of alternative lifestyles which they could "compare" with their own. As mediums of tranportation and communication improve, humans are able to "compile" lists of alternatives. An affluent European hostess has her ballroom decorated in the Egyptian style rather than that of the Harem. The fur market in the New World collapses when beaver pelt hats go out of fashion. Benjamin Franklin escapes his indenturehood and teaches himself to swim by reading a book on the topic. He independently integrates or "computes" this skill. He attempts a lifestyle design with daily focus on a collection of Virtues, but finds this to be too difficult, so decides to tackle only one Virtue at a time on a schedule of rotation. He also follows a daily routine for activities with related metrics such as weighing himself. He calculates the savings to be achieved by selecting a previously married wife vs. a maiden. So, a True Modern!

Another distinction: consumer mindset vs. anti-consumer mindset vs. producer mindset. Consumer mindset = satisfaction in life is achieved by consuming goods and experiences. Anti-consumer mindset: satisfaction in life is NOT primarily achieved by consuming goods and experiences. Producer mindset: satisfaction in life is primarily achieved by producing things (inclusive of goods and experiences) for oneself - the creative act.

Production does not necessarily and most often doesn't require much creativity. Cutting down a gazillion trees to make them all into toilet paper or mailbox stuffers is production. Production and consumption can occur at any level on the CCCCC scale. As consumption approaches the higher levels, it is often referred to as discernment, taste, or acumen. Competent production is not likely without some prior level of consumption informing perception or judgment of quality. If somebody is a skilled landscape painter, we assume that they have previously "consumed" and appreciated the works of other landscape painters. I guess there could be a great chef who doesn't much like to consume food, but I wouldn't want to eat at their restaurant.

It's also fairly churlish to disdain satisfaction in the consumption of goods and services produced for us by our loved ones or artisans who are clearly more skilled in production than we are. No thanks, Mom, I find it more satisfying to make my own breakfast. Mozart, pshaw. I get more satisfaction listening to myself play this here harmonica.

I may very well be misapplying a lesson that I previously learned, but I believe that the sort of dichotomy which is formed through the use of the "anti" prefix usually points to a concept ripe for the transcending. I might also suggest that maybe part of the problem is that post-consumerism (as opposed to anti-consumerism) pretty much implies post-Capitalism. You can retain Capitalism with an anti-consumerism posture/perspective, but not with a post-consumerism posture/perspective. You can need them while not liking them, but you can't need them and not have them. So, if you do need them, and if they do need you, then mutual appreciation might be warranted. Even if/when they exist only within your own psyche. Afterall, who is future you if not a consumer of that which you presently sow? Who are future generations yet unborn if not consumers of that which you presently conserve?

A lifestyle is itself an object of consumption when the approach to it is one of passive reception/selection...
A lifestyle is itself an object of production when the approach to it is one of intentional production, i.e., the perspective that one's way of life is an object of creativity (art, even). ..

I would suggest that a lifestyle is itself an object of consumption at the level of only Compare/Compile with a passive approach lacking discernment. It could be both produced and consumed at a higher level of skill and discernment, approaching the highest levels of art or mastery.

What's the distinction between the two (lifestyle as object of consumption vs. lifestyle as object of creativity)? CCCCCC, I think. Which implies that lifestyle creation/production is a skill.

Yes, I agree that lifestyle creation/production is a skill. However, the truism that the submissive holds the power in the sub/Dom relationship may apply here. No matter how skilled, the Dom can only make offer of contract, and only the response of the sub can seal the deal. Similarly, no matter how skillfully you design and produce your lifestyle, the proof of the pudding is still in the eating.

I can't tell if what you described is a process of production/creativity or AI-assisted lifestyle consumption. It vibes like the LLM was auto-generating a customized menu of options to select from, which is what I was originally reacting against. However, you put a lot of thought and self-understanding into the process of prompting the AI. I don't know.

Heck, I don't know if I know either. However, I will note that this was my first rough attempt at the project/experiment, so might be like the time I tried to build a go-cart without yet comprehending the function of an axle.

The LLM outputs you posted all strike me as banal. I'm curious to see what an LLM would spit out if I did a similar experiment to yours and how I'd feel about it, having seeded it with my own interests and preferences and self-understanding (maybe your outputs seem banal to me only because I'm not the audience)

No, they seem extremely banal to me too. However, they also seemed not wrong. The AI basically correctly interpreted and expanded upon the four words I fed it. Anya's day included many activities that I find meaningful rendered thoroughly banal by AI or by my weak prompting of AI. My actual lifestyle is simultaneously somehow objectively worse than Anya's, while also having much more depth and interesting occurences. All of the narratives generated are kind of like stories written for children about children living adult lifestyles.

My own evolving process of lifestyle-tuning is deeply rewarding -- the process in and of itself, not just the results of it, although those are nice too -- and so I'm a solid meh on outsourcing it, even if I didn't have reservations about the paradigm-limitations of the machine.

Yes, as I indicated somewhere above, I too believe that freedom is akin to manning the helm of your own lifestyle design. However, having been at this awhile, it has been my experience that as with any other creative process, you can have periods of joy and flow, periods of doldrums, and periods of misery or frustration. It's surprisingly difficult to get all of the balls up in the air at once, but that's pretty much the nature of striving. I'm kind of looking forward to getting old enough to just take each day as it comes. For better or worse, it seems like I am going to have to figure out how to keep myself amused for another 30 years with no conventional narrative to guide me.

[7Wannabe5]

Interesting, what takeaways have you learned to apply to your lifestyle?

Well, although I do equate freedom with taking the helm of one's own lifestyle, I think I've learned that to some extent letting go of the helm is what keeps things amusing, but interactions with other humans and the consequences and details of reality are more likely to tickle me than an AI generated narrative, unless the AI generated lifestyle design was somehow more likely to create more interesting interfaces for me. It seems like human lifestyles are pretty limited in the sense that a human will never experience the lifestyle of, for example, a blind mole rat. I also doubt that an AI will produce a lifestyle narrative in which Anya asks her lover if he would still be attracted to her if they were blind mole rats, and he answers that her appearance as a blind mole rat would be irrelevant due to their lifestyle being mostly smell oriented. However, after having such a conversation, one could maybe attempt to have AI generate a primarily smell-focused cutomized lifestyle design. Yes, that is a possibility.

[Frita]

Yes, something about AI is simultaneously amusing and plastic, like “riding” the video rollercoaster at Chuck E. Cheese. I am more likely to be pumped by real life possibilities than something AI churns out.

Do you experience freedom as push-pull? Holding the rope or dropping it? Can the rope be held differently, gently or tied off? What kind of knot? I see freedom more as a process. Sometimes I am steering, other times putting it on autopilot or even letting go. But maybe I drop anchor, unfurl the sails, take the dingy, go swimming (f down the ladder, jump, dive…), suddenly I am a bat flying around in a cenote, wake up.

Lifestyle design seems to have a goal-orientation I have lost, scratch that, let go of. It’s more values-driven with some automation, some routine, and some novelty.

[7Wannabe5]

Well, my first note would be that the reason why I described my experience of freedom as being mostly about "taking the helm" was to contrast this perspective with FI. There have been times in my life when I've been stone broke, yet still felt very free to work my plan, as well as times when money was definitely not my limiting factor, but I still felt bogged down with obligations and other hang-ups. For simple concrete example, not feeling free to do something until I've lost X lbs. has been at least as much of a hang-up as not feeling free to do something until I've put aside $Y Metrics should be our servants, not our taskmasters. So, I agree with you that lifestyle design based primarily on SMART goal orientation is super-great only for the robots amongst us.

Do you experience freedom as push-pull? Holding the rope or dropping it? Can the rope be held differently, gently or tied off? What kind of knot? I see freedom more as a process. Sometimes I am steering, other times putting it on autopilot or even letting go. But maybe I drop anchor, unfurl the sails, take the dingy, go swimming (f down the ladder, jump, dive…), suddenly I am a bat flying around in a cenote, wake up.

Good questions. I think I feel it as the fluid ability to drop and pick up ropes. What I think I would tend towards bringing forward with Freedom from Modernity might be more the concept of "contract" than the concept of "capital", with the ropes representing "contracts" and with the ropes we become hung-up on being mostly "covert contracts" with others, society in general, or ourselves. For example, I think limiting my resource consumption is the right thing to do, but if I semi-consciously tie that to something like "because future generation will laud/despise me" then I'm making a covert contract with "future generations" that "future generations" may give less than a rat's azz towards fulfilling and which I have no power to enforce.

Also, the freedom we get from a stash of financial capital is simultaneously limited in scope and extended through time to the contracts we can financially fulfill. So, in any moment we are not holding obligation to any financial contracts we are at least as financially free as Tom Sawyer or the Moneyless Man until we grasp on to the next rope. However, for example, the fact that financial capital tends to compound and erotic capital tends to decline over time does not necessarily speak to our contractual freedom within those realms. It might also be interesting to note that the consequences of freedom irresponsibly obtained or "the fall" are almost always found at one Level down from current cultural paradigm, much like in a video game.

I suppose some might suggest that the post-modern Level Green equivalent of the "contract" would be the "entitlement", ergo in terms of erotic capital "free love", so this would be simultaneously to some extent thoroughly accepted as "water we swim in" and to another extent getting "push back" at Level Yellow. If I consider the equivalent of "contract" at Level Yellow in terms of some towards Level Yellow organizations in which I've been involved, it seems like roles become less defined and the "new thing that is contract" becomes more flexible and open to negotiation. It may become less clear who is offering the contract and who is accepting it, because power structures are more complex and "overlapping" and profit motive and mission-orientation is more dispersed. Tom Sawyer can grab his next rope off a tree and jump off raft (representing his assorted capital base inclusive of old school Orange contracts and Green entitlements and maybe even Blue vows or Red oaths or Purple bonds or Beige pleas?) and/or he can throw a rope from raft for somebody else to catch hold of and/or he can lash his raft to those of a few other rafters to form a small temporary flotilla. Maybe the "arrangement" would be the near synonym that would best serve at Yellow. As in, "How do you support your lifestyle?", "I support my lifestyle and my lifestyle supports me through an arrangement of my wherewithal." or maybe just "wherewithal arrangement." If we stick with the W constraint, the "arrangement" might be a "webbed whorl." Obviously, I think of polyamory as sexual relationship structure at Yellow even for those currently practicing monogamy as they self-aware develop different aspects of self*, but others have argued that polyamory is more like hyper-consumerism, likely it is a bit of both, but it's hard to argue that it doesn't entail more complexity and provide more freedom than conventional marriage at Blue.

*For example, if you would feel free to say "I would prefer that you bring the more dominant Se rather than Te aspects of your identity to our sexual interaction this evening." to your monogamous partner and they didn't reply "Huh?"

[Frita]

Regarding most contracts being unspoken: Yep, the classic having expectations. Sometimes these are unspoken. Other times there’s a mismatch between behavior and what is communicated. And I think it’s probably based on assuming others are living in a similar colored box (or two adjacent colored boxes). The more people/variables, the more potential complication.

If I consider the equivalent of "contract" at Level Yellow in terms of some towards Level Yellow organizations in which I've been involved, it seems like roles become less defined and the "new thing that is contract" becomes more flexible and open to negotiation. It may become less clear who is offering the contract and who is accepting it, because power structures are more complex and "overlapping" and profit motive and mission-orientation is more dispersed.

This is what feels most comfortable to me at sometimes great discomfort to others. It requires more skill and tolerance but, damn, my amusement increases too. Been noticing more chaos creation and self-sabotage within society but will skip that rabbithole for now.

Experiencing connection regardless of degree of fit and/or belonging is interesting. For me, it allows for more rope slacking-type behavior. (Like letting things ride with my anxious, depressed, basement-dwelling spouse while actively creating a separate life…) Cognitively, I am experimenting with shifting analogies: fishing line, kite string, leash, tow rope, rubber band, button, buried electronic fence, etc.

[7Wannabe5]

Experiencing connection regardless of degree of fit and/or belonging is interesting. For me, it allows for more rope slacking-type behavior.

Yes, kind of like "Every relationship is functional with the appropriately formed/placed boundary" although sometimes appropriate boundary requires termination of prior contract. For example, I'm currently enjoying dating my ex-"husband", but have no desire to resume cohabitation with him.

Cognitively, I am experimenting with shifting analogies: fishing line, kite string, leash, tow rope, rubber band, button, buried electronic fence, etc.

At the worst with my first husband, I imagined myself as a red solid rubber ball with him as the stiletto that could stab and shred me a bit, but not stop me from bouncing. With the ex I am currently dating, it was more like I was a bright yellow rubber duck floating in an iron pot full of boiling water. But, they are both quite charming men at the appropriate distances of (1) dry, witty remarks exchanged at occasional family event (2) dinner, conversation, warm hug, and a muscular tumble.

[Frita]

Yes, kind of like “Every relationship is functional with the appropriately formed/placed boundary" although sometimes appropriate boundary requires termination of prior contract.

Not quite. For some people, no contact would be the only way to have a functional relationship. Sort of an interpersonal version of the “What is the sound of two hands clapping?” koan. It takes time to see how people are in multiple situations to determine how to “right size” the relationship, like your boot knocking with your second ex. From my experience, some of the people who ultimately end up in relationship no man’s land can pull the ol’ bait and switch though. I’d prefer to right-size the boundary from the start rather than renegotiate.

When I say, “Experiencing connection regardless of degree of fit and/or belonging is interesting,” I am referring to a shared humanity. I have no issue talking with homeless people, the kid punking himself out in the restroom (afterwards, not during), or commuted death row inmate (The last two are former work examples.) It’s not about pity or leveling, but starting with shared humanity. I can now extend that to more people like political wack-a-doodles, Rivan-driving Patagonia-wearing eco-police, etc. From the get-go, there’s never going to be a relationship.

Hilarious visuals, I appreciate laughing so early today.

[7Wannabe5]

Not quite. For some people, no contact would be the only way to have a functional relationship. Sort of an interpersonal version of the “What is the sound of two hands clapping?” koan. It takes time to see how people are in multiple situations to determine how to “right size” the relationship, like your boot knocking with your second ex. From my experience, some of the people who ultimately end up in relationship no man’s land can pull the ol’ bait and switch though. I’d prefer to right-size the boundary from the start rather than renegotiate.

I mostly agree, but remember boundaries are defined to be totally under your control, so not subject to negotiation or renegotiation like a contract. Telling another human "Don't contact me again." is not a boundary and neither is coming to a similar agreement. Blocking him on your devices, obtaining a restraining order, and only communicating through your lawyer is a boundary. The relationship is now functional, because unless you are still emotionally-fused with that human, you can wish them well, because you have appropriately boundaried your value statement, "I will be safe."

Although it is also the case that sometimes boundaries will push on a contract towards rendering it less covert or squishy. For example, if you are in a sex-starved marriage, your value statement towards boundary might be, "I will be sexual.", which does sort of force discussion/negotiation concerning to what extent non-provision of sex renders contract of monogamy null and void. If you can get to the place where both of you calmly recognize an incompatibility of values, then you can achieve either a "good divorce" or another arrangement such as polyamory. And the better you know yourself, the more likely you will communicate your boundaries up front." I will be sexual, if you no longer wish to participate, I will find another lover." "I will not tolerate a great deal of incivility, if you yell at me, I will leave the premises." etc. etc. Generally, if you are unable to make a boundary value statement like this, there is something you covertly value more than "sex" or "civility" or "FITB." For example, many of the "nice guy" men in my sex-starved marriage group got stuck at "But I only want to have sex with the woman I love.", so what they covertly valued was their "naive romantic delusions." For others it might have been "money" , "responsibilty to the kids", "reputation in community", etc. The interesting thing was that it sometimes happened that the "covert value(s)" would suddenly no longer be an issue, and then the overt problems would become relatively easy to solve. However, all of this really only applies when humans are generally acting in good faith. For example, you are never going to get "unstuck" or experience personal growth by cheating on your partner.

[ertyu]

"But I only want to have sex with the woman I love.", so what they covertly valued was their "naive romantic delusions."

tsk.

demisexual humans are a thing

[7Wannabe5]

tsk...

demisexual humans are a thing

Yes, but once you gain the self-awareness that you are demisexual then you are no longer naive or delusional Also, there is a difference between recognizing that you are somebody who only enjoys sex within romantic context and believing that your current relationship with current partner is the only possible romantic relationship in which you could enjoy sex. With this realization you may also find yourself more able to consider the factors that influence your demi-sexuality. For example, you could attempt to deconstruct what "romance" means to you.

Like most females, I am a bit towards demisexual in the sense that I find it difficult to engage in completely meaningless sex, so I also suffered a bit from female version of "nice guy" syndrome in my sex-starved marriage. However, it eventually became a bit amusing to me that I was less wimpy than many of the men in my therapy group who suffered from it. For example, initiating sex with your partner/romantic-object and being rejected in a churlish manner is deflating to anyone's ego, but I just kept going back into the ring on a bi-weekly basis, while many of the men in my group would be more like "That hurt my feelings, I will now retreat for the next 6 months." I think this might speak to the difference between Level 1 trauma vs. Level 2 trauma. IOW, the fact that I had a very good relationship with my father at age 6 gave me core resilience to deal with rejection suffered as an adult in a significant relationship. My internal voice was saying something more like "That hurt my feelings, so I will retreat for just a little while until I once again realize that you must be wrong, because I am great!" That said, trauma is trauma, and I was a bit of a mental case when I first started dating after my divorce. I truly believed that the first few men who indicated interest were just being kind to me and didn't take them seriously. In retrospect, it's humorous to consider how baffling my behavior must have been.

Also one thing I realized about my flavor of fairly moderate tendency towards demi-sexuality is that it is more tied to simple sentimentality than romantic idealism. More tertiary Fe than primary Fi. So, performing simple acts of physical care for myself allows me to transcend it when I believe it to be in my self-interest. For example, if the first time I have sex with a man the sex isn't very good, I will retrace my steps back to a point where I didn't take very good care of myself. If the first time I have sex with a man the sex is very good, I will exit from being in presence with him by taking very good care of myself, even though it is also most often the case that my mature partners are likely to wish to extend the care they offer to me. Since I frequently have conversations with my intelligent partners on topics such as how biochemicals influence emotions and behaviors and vice-versa, etc. I know that one thing that happens to many/most men as they mature is that they become more emotionally caretaker-like in relationship to their partner(s.) So, there's a sort of mutually self-aware dance that may occur as I assure him that "Yes, I will follow his instructions for best way to get back on the highway." and "No, I don't need another coffee for the road." etc. I would describe Tertiary Fe sentimentality as being like the projected feeling that your Grandma who lives alone will miss you when you drive over the hills and snow away from her after Thanksgiving dinner, while the more abstracted perspective of NeTi is the realization that both you and Grandma are adults who value their independence and have purposeful and fun things to do and other people with whom to interact elsewhere. And this informs ones ability to fluidly move from warm, open, relaxed, present, to cool, bouncy, free with grace and ease. Well okay, the "grace" bit might be more in theory

[Frita]

…boundaries are defined to be totally under your control, so not subject to negotiation or renegotiation like a contract.

Yes and I would differentiate between limits and boundaries. The former are more concrete, while boundaries can have a degree of flexibility. Unnecessarily rigid boundaries can be about power and control. But constant boundary pushing/testing is just as concerning. Choosing if, where, and when to (re)negotiate a noncontacted relationship is value- and choice-driven. Limits are more enduring.

[7Wannabe5]

@Frita:

Yes, I agree. Your limits are the boundaries you don't even need to think about. You hit them and you're done. Boundaries, like the values that help define, them may require periodic and/or contextual clarification. It is absolutely the case that less than functional boundaries can be as likely to be too rigid as too floppy, usually depending on personality type and/or personal experience. For example, no reasonable human constructs the boundary "I will be sexual" so rigidly that if partner is temporarily indisposed or makes reasonable counter-request "How about some foreplay?" , they still head right out to the single's bar.

Very often covert contracts are related to change. Either that change won't happen or that it naturally will. Stereotypically men tend towards more rigid, so expectation is "no change" and women are more floppy, so expectation is that "change should be expected and accepted." For concrete example, there are humans so rigid that partner putting on 20 lbs over 20 years is seen as violation of sexual contract, and there are other humans so floppy that they believe that putting on 200 lbs. should be mutely accepted by other. Generally, taking the other's perspective or preference to the point of acceptance leads to most functional resolution and is an attractive quality/ability of its own, because it tends towards reframing a "should" or a "need" as a "want." For example, "I understand and accept that you are disappointed that I have put on some weight. I have given the matter some consideration, and since consultation with my doctor indicated no associated health risks, and my current appearance is not in conflict with my own personal aesthetic, I am disinclined to make a change. I wish you luck in finding another partner more in alignment with your core preferences." or "I understand and accept that you are not interested in fulfilling my aesthetic preference. I have given the matter some consideration and given that it seems likely that I could find a partner who meets my preference, and this would make my experience of sexuality more invigorating, I am inclined to make a change. I wish you luck in finding another partner who shares your aesthetic and appreciates your appearance." This could obviously also be extended to differences in financial spending preferences, etc. This is why I indicated that "anti-consumerism" may be dysfunctional if extended beyond a personal preference/value/boundary. Not because behaviors associated with consumerism should be valued equally with those associated with a more resilience, but because any time you extend a boundary beyond self-aware self-care, you limit your own freedom and function. I truly can't over-emphasize how freeing it is to drop the rope on doing other's work for them*, which is basically what you are signalling with either rigid or floppy boundaries.

*However, definitely not a one and done. Boundary and value clarification is forever task. And sometimes the experience of an other making a clear statement as above will be occasion for re-evaluation due to influx of external reality. If other is making statements such as this as a control or avoidance tactic rather than honest revelation then that will become quite obvious after a few bounces of the ball across the court.