I've really kept to myself all throughout my school years; but, I want to learn how to actually be social with people. Every time I have a conversation, I usually end up giving short responses or I don't know what to say. I don't keep up with NEWS events and mainly stay at home. Being quiet hasn't helped me in any way, so I guess I'll start talking.
How do I become more sociable?
How to have something to talk about or ask good questions?
How do I be friendly and personable instead of irritable and quiet?
How to become sociable?
Re: How to become sociable?
Answer: go find some weirdos.
I'm only half-joking. I also don't "know what to say" - I don't pre-make a decision to say a thing and then say it, I open my mouth and I yap. So: how does one just open one's mouth to yap? Why don't you just open your mouth and yap??
If you're not already opening your mouth to just yap, chances are you felt some sort of aversion to doing this. So: what's the aversion about? Where does it come from??
For most people, the answer to this would be, "because when I was small / in the past, when I opened my mouth to just yap, unpleasant things happened - i was scolded, people laughed at me, people said im a nerd, etc"
Thus: to be comfortable yapping, one needs to put oneself in situations such that yapping starts to be associated with POSITIVE things. One way to do this is (group) therapy. Another way to do this is to ask yourself, what am I nerdy about?? and then go find the people who are nerdy about the same thing (online or irl). Then talk to them.
There's a subset of people who gets a lot out of studying scripts. These are the socially acceptable responses in various social situations. They can be found in advice blogs (my sister does XYZ!!! What do I say to her such that she'll stop?"). Also, in books on small talk, boundary-setting, non-violent communication, active listening, and so forth. Also, you could observe people and keep a journal of what -they- do. Autistic people like scripts, but they aren't just for autistic people. They're also for people whose parents didn't model social skills -- and for me as a non-native speaker of English: at some point, when you learn the language well enough, you also have to start learning the conventions of communicating in that language (How are you? // Not bad, yourself? as the simplest of examples).
Another popular one on this forum is personality typing: one sorts people on the basis of their personality type according to whatever system (enneagram, mbti, spiral dynamics, doesn't matter, just pick one you like), and then this tells you how to approach each person. It might or might not be your thing, but it's a thing some people do.
But yeah, the short answer is, practice in contexts where you'll start creating positive associations with the thing. If you have easy access to therapy, go -- hasn't hurt anyone. If you have a close friend, ask them to practice with you. Consider a relevant support group, joining an online community of weirdos (such as this one!), joining a real life community of weirdos (people who volunteer to clean up the park? people who keep old people company in retirement homes? a DND group? A board game night?) Or, consider hiring someone cheaper than a therapist - life coaches are yappy people, for example. But your best bet is probably people you already are friendly with, whom you can tell, "yeah so I want to become yappier, would you mind giving me pointers / practicing with me."
Good luck, whatever you decide!
I'm only half-joking. I also don't "know what to say" - I don't pre-make a decision to say a thing and then say it, I open my mouth and I yap. So: how does one just open one's mouth to yap? Why don't you just open your mouth and yap??
If you're not already opening your mouth to just yap, chances are you felt some sort of aversion to doing this. So: what's the aversion about? Where does it come from??
For most people, the answer to this would be, "because when I was small / in the past, when I opened my mouth to just yap, unpleasant things happened - i was scolded, people laughed at me, people said im a nerd, etc"
Thus: to be comfortable yapping, one needs to put oneself in situations such that yapping starts to be associated with POSITIVE things. One way to do this is (group) therapy. Another way to do this is to ask yourself, what am I nerdy about?? and then go find the people who are nerdy about the same thing (online or irl). Then talk to them.
There's a subset of people who gets a lot out of studying scripts. These are the socially acceptable responses in various social situations. They can be found in advice blogs (my sister does XYZ!!! What do I say to her such that she'll stop?"). Also, in books on small talk, boundary-setting, non-violent communication, active listening, and so forth. Also, you could observe people and keep a journal of what -they- do. Autistic people like scripts, but they aren't just for autistic people. They're also for people whose parents didn't model social skills -- and for me as a non-native speaker of English: at some point, when you learn the language well enough, you also have to start learning the conventions of communicating in that language (How are you? // Not bad, yourself? as the simplest of examples).
Another popular one on this forum is personality typing: one sorts people on the basis of their personality type according to whatever system (enneagram, mbti, spiral dynamics, doesn't matter, just pick one you like), and then this tells you how to approach each person. It might or might not be your thing, but it's a thing some people do.
But yeah, the short answer is, practice in contexts where you'll start creating positive associations with the thing. If you have easy access to therapy, go -- hasn't hurt anyone. If you have a close friend, ask them to practice with you. Consider a relevant support group, joining an online community of weirdos (such as this one!), joining a real life community of weirdos (people who volunteer to clean up the park? people who keep old people company in retirement homes? a DND group? A board game night?) Or, consider hiring someone cheaper than a therapist - life coaches are yappy people, for example. But your best bet is probably people you already are friendly with, whom you can tell, "yeah so I want to become yappier, would you mind giving me pointers / practicing with me."
Good luck, whatever you decide!
Re: How to become sociable?
People love to talk about what makes them tick. A well-aimed question helps uncover that. There's worse ways to dig for common interests.
Also, some people rather do than talk a lot. You might find them pleasant to hang out with and do stuff together.
Re: How to become sociable?
Practice talking to people you know and don't know as often as possible. The more you practice the more you will learn what works and what doesn't.
The book - How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie might be worth a look. 1 piece of advice I took from the book was to be interested in the person you are talking to and they will find you more interesting. I found this is pretty easy to implement with positive effects.
The book - How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie might be worth a look. 1 piece of advice I took from the book was to be interested in the person you are talking to and they will find you more interesting. I found this is pretty easy to implement with positive effects.
Re: How to become sociable?
Why would you want to be ?
Re: How to become sociable?
Not OP but, eh: imo it's valid to want things just cause one wants them. Why not?
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jacob
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Re: How to become sociable?
Asking how to become sociable is like asking how to become smart. Sure you can learn a few tactics, but being sociable is like being smart in that it's more of a lifestyle or a temperament than a skill. What I mean by this is that neither is an isolated skill one switches on and off when the occasion calls for it. Rather being smart or sociable is so comprehensive that people's lives revolve around it. It's more something one is than something one does.
Read this: https://paulgraham.com/nerds.html
Note that being sociable is not the same as being popular (being popular is a subset of being sociable and so requires somewhat more) but they do have several things in common. Being sociable requires being interested and focused on what other people are interested in. Now, you can make this easier on yourself by seeking out clubs, etc. of people who are interested in things that you are already interested in. However, if you want to be sociable with the "general population", the major topics that the average person is interested in
A few times in my life (I'm 49 now) I've attempted to keep up with sports, food, and "how people are doing" in order to not have to fake it (as an introvert, I find faking it to be exhausting) while attempting "be more sociable". However, I find these topics insipid which makes it really hard to stay focused. Most people and their stories really aren't that interesting (to me) and don't even get me started on "favorite restaurants" or the "playoffs" whatever that is. Mileage obviously varies.
What I'm saying is that while being "sociable" or "smart" sounds like something everybody would want, both come with a comprehensive cost function. Being "smart" requires more reading and reflecting than many people would want to. Likewise, being "sociable" requires more talking and keeping up with what other people are doing than some people would want to. And I think that's okay.
The right framework here is to ask yourself if you want to be more interested in other people and what they're interested in as opposed to what you're currently interested in now. Schopenhauer had the right idea when pointing out that you can do what you want but you can not want what you want. If you just want the supposedly positive effects of being sociable but aren't really wanting the people-centered focus that comes with it, it's going to be a struggle.
Read this: https://paulgraham.com/nerds.html
Note that being sociable is not the same as being popular (being popular is a subset of being sociable and so requires somewhat more) but they do have several things in common. Being sociable requires being interested and focused on what other people are interested in. Now, you can make this easier on yourself by seeking out clubs, etc. of people who are interested in things that you are already interested in. However, if you want to be sociable with the "general population", the major topics that the average person is interested in
- People they know, especially themselves.
- Sports
- Food
A few times in my life (I'm 49 now) I've attempted to keep up with sports, food, and "how people are doing" in order to not have to fake it (as an introvert, I find faking it to be exhausting) while attempting "be more sociable". However, I find these topics insipid which makes it really hard to stay focused. Most people and their stories really aren't that interesting (to me) and don't even get me started on "favorite restaurants" or the "playoffs" whatever that is. Mileage obviously varies.
What I'm saying is that while being "sociable" or "smart" sounds like something everybody would want, both come with a comprehensive cost function. Being "smart" requires more reading and reflecting than many people would want to. Likewise, being "sociable" requires more talking and keeping up with what other people are doing than some people would want to. And I think that's okay.
The right framework here is to ask yourself if you want to be more interested in other people and what they're interested in as opposed to what you're currently interested in now. Schopenhauer had the right idea when pointing out that you can do what you want but you can not want what you want. If you just want the supposedly positive effects of being sociable but aren't really wanting the people-centered focus that comes with it, it's going to be a struggle.
Re: How to become sociable?
Asking why can assess sources of motivation to be more sociable:
-Am I lonely? Looking to have a social outlet? Network?
-Do I think I need to be more sociable? If so, why?
-What do I enjoy talking about and doing?
-Am I lonely? Looking to have a social outlet? Network?
-Do I think I need to be more sociable? If so, why?
-What do I enjoy talking about and doing?
Re: How to become sociable?
It's not as hard as you think as long as you temper expectations. As introverts, we like to gain value from conversations or what's the point, right? The key is to expect nothing from the exchange. This attitude will make you more comfortable to be around which in turn will make the recipient more comfortable too.
The funny thing is that when the other person is comfortable then the magic occurs. They open up, make a joke or opine abut something. They give you a hundred little openings from which to continue the conversation.
This is where your responsibility comes into play. You have to be aware of what is occurring around you and what most people might be focused on. This does not mean that you have to become absorbed into stuff you hate, but take some time to follow what's happening at a local level especially. And you don't have to know much about anything, just the right questions to ask. Recently I had a twenty minute conversation about baseball with a shuttle driver on the way to the airport. Now I don't know shit about baseball, but I knew that there was a phenomenal Japanese player making waves in the league. One question and it was off to the races because people love to talk about themselves and their interests.
Now I told you to expect nothing from these conversations right? But if you do this enough and become proficient then you will get to reap rewards that you hadn't anticipated. First of all, they can be quite pleasant even of nothing of consequence was said but many times you'll get to learn of stuff that you had no idea about. A lot of it will be gossip, but there is always some truth in people espousing their views. Or you'll get the inside scoop of what is really happening and you can make decisions accordingly. Random conversations can lead to potential jobs or other opportunities, something you never would have been aware of if you hadn't been a willing conversationalist.
Some tips:
Body language is key. Nobody wants to talk to a rigid statue. Open up a little, uncross your arms, fix the resting bitch face
One word answers are death to a conversation. Think of a question directed at you as a way to give a meandering response.
Self-deprecating humor goes an amazingly long way. Nothing makes another person fell better than the opportunity to teach you something, much like my response to you now.
Learn some basic humor, how to tell amusing stories and more importantly receive a joke from somebody else. People want you to laugh at their jokes, be kind. Or tell them that was so bad you still had to laugh.
Learn when to call it, to stop the conversation. This is hard if the other person is earnest, like lonely old people. Learn a few exit strategies that aren't too obvious to save your sanity. Also, understand that trying to hold a conversation with a high functioning, high energy extrovert is probably not a good idea. You'll never keep up and will be exhausted at the end. There are plenty of normal people however.
And lastly, you have to practice. Endeavor to speak with a lot of people across many spectrums. imagine being able to converse with the plumber in your kitchen as well as the university professor. Good luck
The funny thing is that when the other person is comfortable then the magic occurs. They open up, make a joke or opine abut something. They give you a hundred little openings from which to continue the conversation.
This is where your responsibility comes into play. You have to be aware of what is occurring around you and what most people might be focused on. This does not mean that you have to become absorbed into stuff you hate, but take some time to follow what's happening at a local level especially. And you don't have to know much about anything, just the right questions to ask. Recently I had a twenty minute conversation about baseball with a shuttle driver on the way to the airport. Now I don't know shit about baseball, but I knew that there was a phenomenal Japanese player making waves in the league. One question and it was off to the races because people love to talk about themselves and their interests.
Now I told you to expect nothing from these conversations right? But if you do this enough and become proficient then you will get to reap rewards that you hadn't anticipated. First of all, they can be quite pleasant even of nothing of consequence was said but many times you'll get to learn of stuff that you had no idea about. A lot of it will be gossip, but there is always some truth in people espousing their views. Or you'll get the inside scoop of what is really happening and you can make decisions accordingly. Random conversations can lead to potential jobs or other opportunities, something you never would have been aware of if you hadn't been a willing conversationalist.
Some tips:
Body language is key. Nobody wants to talk to a rigid statue. Open up a little, uncross your arms, fix the resting bitch face
One word answers are death to a conversation. Think of a question directed at you as a way to give a meandering response.
Self-deprecating humor goes an amazingly long way. Nothing makes another person fell better than the opportunity to teach you something, much like my response to you now.
Learn some basic humor, how to tell amusing stories and more importantly receive a joke from somebody else. People want you to laugh at their jokes, be kind. Or tell them that was so bad you still had to laugh.
Learn when to call it, to stop the conversation. This is hard if the other person is earnest, like lonely old people. Learn a few exit strategies that aren't too obvious to save your sanity. Also, understand that trying to hold a conversation with a high functioning, high energy extrovert is probably not a good idea. You'll never keep up and will be exhausted at the end. There are plenty of normal people however.
And lastly, you have to practice. Endeavor to speak with a lot of people across many spectrums. imagine being able to converse with the plumber in your kitchen as well as the university professor. Good luck
Re: How to become sociable?
I'm sociable. I follow sports. Every other word I speak is a variation on fuck. I don't hit people up for money but I express resentment for the people with more money than me. I've got some jokes and some run ins with law enforcement but no jailhouse tats. I believe in God but you won't believe me when I say I do because every other word I speak is a variation on fuck. So when I get my oil changed every few months I've got shooting the shit in the garage bay with the grease monkey hall pass. Middle aged mopes like myself, thrust about on the waves of life. But a funny thing happened on the way to the sociability forum. They are confessing to me. The problem children. Problem marriages. Now divorce. Like I'm Dr. Henry Givesashit all of a sudden. You want to start up a conversation with that guy who pumps your gas, or delivers your mail or picks up your garbage? Well, buyer be fucking ware. That guy's wife is home spending his union wages on artificial lips or buttcheeks, his kid who hit him for 10K for a wedding in May now needs 10K for a divorce lawyer in June. Or guess what? He doesn't like his boss? Can you fucking imagine that. Someone who doesn't like his fucking boss? Well, he's going to let you know about that fucking situation. Oh, and then you get the my husband/wife/mother/chihauau is dying. Now you got to mourn with a barely above fucking stranger on some dying creature you never met or could give a rat's asshair about. You got to ask for updates and then the day comes when whoever or whatever fucking died and you got to do the whole "Oh, I'm sorry" fucking routine." And what about you? Have you thought about that. You walk into the garden center or the veggie mart and you drop a bomb of a fucking line on that person you kind of flirt with but now you got the pressure to be Louis CK every fucking time you go in to buy a lone fucking avocado. I would really think this question through. I'm not saying dedicate your life to bitcoin, video games and cartoon porn but then again watch out for you wish for.
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AnalyticalEngine
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Re: How to become sociable?
Gotta agree with @Henry as "let me tell you about my divorce" is a very common hazard when interacting with members of the general population.
It may be worth making your goals more specific here. I have noticed that people who enjoy small talk enjoy it for its own sake. Like taking to the person next to you on the train the entire four hours then never seeing them again type small talk. This is different than networking (where you might get a job connection from your train bestie) or developing deep relationships, although small talk is usually required to start with in these categories.
If you are an introvert and find small talk draining but want to expand your network, you are going to want filters to save your limited energy. This includes talking with "nerds"[1] as mentioned above but it might also be worthwhile to learn how to start conversations with strangers then also end them if aforementioned divorce comes up.
Although frankly I think sociability is often more about your environment than you. Seeing the same people all the time makes being their friend way easier than finding your new bff on the train, which is a fairly advanced level of sociability and charisma and extroversion. That is to say, unless you genuinely enjoy the four hour conversation about divorce, you may want a different strategy that is more compatible with your temperament.
I'll also add it's worth it to travel to another country where no one engages in small talk so you can feel sane about your introversion again. America not only has an extrovert bias culturally, but a "!!!WOW!!!EXCITING!!!" bias that does not exist universally.
[1] - On the flip side, making friends with extroverts can be easier than making friends with nerds because extroverts are usually doing things and they will invite you to do those things and then you can meet new people. Making friends with too many introverts can put you in the position of needing to act like the extrovert or else nothing ever happens.
It may be worth making your goals more specific here. I have noticed that people who enjoy small talk enjoy it for its own sake. Like taking to the person next to you on the train the entire four hours then never seeing them again type small talk. This is different than networking (where you might get a job connection from your train bestie) or developing deep relationships, although small talk is usually required to start with in these categories.
If you are an introvert and find small talk draining but want to expand your network, you are going to want filters to save your limited energy. This includes talking with "nerds"[1] as mentioned above but it might also be worthwhile to learn how to start conversations with strangers then also end them if aforementioned divorce comes up.
Although frankly I think sociability is often more about your environment than you. Seeing the same people all the time makes being their friend way easier than finding your new bff on the train, which is a fairly advanced level of sociability and charisma and extroversion. That is to say, unless you genuinely enjoy the four hour conversation about divorce, you may want a different strategy that is more compatible with your temperament.
I'll also add it's worth it to travel to another country where no one engages in small talk so you can feel sane about your introversion again. America not only has an extrovert bias culturally, but a "!!!WOW!!!EXCITING!!!" bias that does not exist universally.
[1] - On the flip side, making friends with extroverts can be easier than making friends with nerds because extroverts are usually doing things and they will invite you to do those things and then you can meet new people. Making friends with too many introverts can put you in the position of needing to act like the extrovert or else nothing ever happens.
Re: How to become sociable?
Being sociable, a people person, and/or being a good conversationalist aren't necessarily the same skill set or tendency. Some humans exhibit their extroversion by roaming around touching base with everybody in their wide circle on a regular basis, but rarely making conversation beyond "Where's that wrench I lent you? New truck, huh. What the fuck were you thinking painting your house that color." , leaving the less extroverted human they dragged away from their reading to go out on their visiting rounds with them with the task of lending charm through conversation. So, the most extroverted humans will have the tendency to "go out" (physical extroversion), the tendency to be interested in "acquiring people/relationships" (social extroversion), and the tendency to "talk/make conversation." (verbal extroversion), but not all extroverts will have all these qualities or all of these qualities to the same extent. For example, I am quite talkative, but only very moderately interested in forming more/new relationships, and I am definitely not a "social roamer." When motivated to "go out", I'm usually in solo explorer/scout or mission mode and very rarely strike up conversations with strangers or "work the room" or "network." Therefore, I describe my flavor of extroversion as "social hostess" rather than "social roamer." Based on their journals, Ego and ffj might be examples of the more "social roamer" type, but possessing of more conversation than "wrench guy." Another example would be that cats are socially and verbally introverted, but physically extroverted, and a rabbit is socially extroverted, but verbally and physically introverted. Or maybe Ne= verbal extroversion, Fe= social extroversion (warm mammal or desire to be physically present with other humans), Se/Te = physical extroversion (maybe "go out/extend-from-self-with-tool")
So, the spectrum of conversational topics will approximate: things-> skills-> ideas-> relationships-> people. Humans who are more concrete thinkers will prefer to talk about things or people. Humans who are more abstract thinkers will prefer to talk about ideas. So, gossip, exchanging specific information about specific people, is the same level of conversation as talking about things in a specific manner: like what part you needed for your truck, where you bought it, and how much you paid. The next level of conversation would be skills or relationships or the level of advice and/or sharing. The highest level of conversation would be ideas. It's difficult to jump right into a conversation at the level of ideas, especially with somebody you don't know well, so most humans start conversations with "small talk" in order to establish a connection at the simple level of things or people (or places, because things and people are found in places) and then build from there if possible. The 5 adjectives (borrowing a bit from Austen here) that might best describe humans who are good conversationalists at any level (not to be confused with empathetic communicators= people who are good with emotions) would be clever, curious, charming, confident, and well-informed. For example, based on his writing, Henry is great conversationalist even when he is just riffing at the level of celebrity gossip, and also sort of a poster boy for delineating the difference between "charming" and "agreeable."
Therefore, although hanging out with other humans who share your interests will tend towards boot-strapping conversation, it might be a bit of a cheat in acquiring the more general skill set. Humans who enjoy conversation will talk about just about anything, IFF the conversation takes place primarily at the level of abstraction that they prefer. It's rather like playing tennis or volleyball, but more for the fun or the challenge than the winning. NiTe will generally tend towards a more utilitarian "conversation is for the purpose of sharing information" than NeTi, but you don't have to be a people-person to enjoy conversation anymore than you have to be a people-person to enjoy sports that require an opponent or team. Many warm, sensitive, caring, empathetic people-persons are introverted. ESTJs and ENTJs could often give less than a rat's azz about other humans, but they need other humans around them so that they have somebody to boss around or supervise, because primary Te kind of functions as though other humans are tool-extensions towards their purpose, whereas ESTP and ENTP err more on the side of treating other humans like they are toys for their amusement, and xNTP is indifferent to whether her amusement is found through books or people, but xNtP is a bit warmer, more likely to give you a hug or a home-baked cookie after she conversationally drains your brain in order to maintain the level of mental stimulation she prefers.
So, the spectrum of conversational topics will approximate: things-> skills-> ideas-> relationships-> people. Humans who are more concrete thinkers will prefer to talk about things or people. Humans who are more abstract thinkers will prefer to talk about ideas. So, gossip, exchanging specific information about specific people, is the same level of conversation as talking about things in a specific manner: like what part you needed for your truck, where you bought it, and how much you paid. The next level of conversation would be skills or relationships or the level of advice and/or sharing. The highest level of conversation would be ideas. It's difficult to jump right into a conversation at the level of ideas, especially with somebody you don't know well, so most humans start conversations with "small talk" in order to establish a connection at the simple level of things or people (or places, because things and people are found in places) and then build from there if possible. The 5 adjectives (borrowing a bit from Austen here) that might best describe humans who are good conversationalists at any level (not to be confused with empathetic communicators= people who are good with emotions) would be clever, curious, charming, confident, and well-informed. For example, based on his writing, Henry is great conversationalist even when he is just riffing at the level of celebrity gossip, and also sort of a poster boy for delineating the difference between "charming" and "agreeable."
Therefore, although hanging out with other humans who share your interests will tend towards boot-strapping conversation, it might be a bit of a cheat in acquiring the more general skill set. Humans who enjoy conversation will talk about just about anything, IFF the conversation takes place primarily at the level of abstraction that they prefer. It's rather like playing tennis or volleyball, but more for the fun or the challenge than the winning. NiTe will generally tend towards a more utilitarian "conversation is for the purpose of sharing information" than NeTi, but you don't have to be a people-person to enjoy conversation anymore than you have to be a people-person to enjoy sports that require an opponent or team. Many warm, sensitive, caring, empathetic people-persons are introverted. ESTJs and ENTJs could often give less than a rat's azz about other humans, but they need other humans around them so that they have somebody to boss around or supervise, because primary Te kind of functions as though other humans are tool-extensions towards their purpose, whereas ESTP and ENTP err more on the side of treating other humans like they are toys for their amusement, and xNTP is indifferent to whether her amusement is found through books or people, but xNtP is a bit warmer, more likely to give you a hug or a home-baked cookie after she conversationally drains your brain in order to maintain the level of mental stimulation she prefers.
Re: How to become sociable?
FFJ offered some great advice. Like any other skill, you have to practice. You will feel like a fool at times but it’s part of the process and nobody really cares. Most people focus on themselves and you can use that to your advantage in finding an engaging topic of conversation. Being able to converse with someone is a skill, but being able to do so AND have an interesting conversation is another. In my experience, just about everyone has something that is interesting to talk about that overlaps with one of my interests. A lot of the time it can be pretty hard to find out what that is. A good number of people are not skilled conversationalists! To get them to open up to you they have to trust you, which means you need to be open to them and/or be empathetic. If you think you are above everyone else and are more interesting than them/they are beneath you etc that will come across. Anyone can be interesting for a night.
Great advice I’ve heard is “avoid boring people and avoid boring people.” You don’t need to talk to the guy outside the store in cardboard shoes telling you the wonders of the book of Revelations. Part of the skill is in knowing who’s worth talking to. Another part is being able to end a conversation (bad or not) gracefully. If you’re from the Midwest, this will be more challenging than if you’re from somewhere like New Jersey.
There are a few books that I’ve found incredibly helpful in building my social skill set. Read these and try out the tactics within. You’ll be surprised at how effective they are.
-How to Win Friends and Influence People
-Impro by Keith Johnstone
-Influence by Robert Cialdini
-What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro
-Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
-How to Have Impossible Conversations by Peter Boghossian
-The Courage to be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi
Again, you have to practice! Try to be sociable for a couple times each day to start and then build from there.
Great advice I’ve heard is “avoid boring people and avoid boring people.” You don’t need to talk to the guy outside the store in cardboard shoes telling you the wonders of the book of Revelations. Part of the skill is in knowing who’s worth talking to. Another part is being able to end a conversation (bad or not) gracefully. If you’re from the Midwest, this will be more challenging than if you’re from somewhere like New Jersey.
There are a few books that I’ve found incredibly helpful in building my social skill set. Read these and try out the tactics within. You’ll be surprised at how effective they are.
-How to Win Friends and Influence People
-Impro by Keith Johnstone
-Influence by Robert Cialdini
-What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro
-Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss
-How to Have Impossible Conversations by Peter Boghossian
-The Courage to be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi
Again, you have to practice! Try to be sociable for a couple times each day to start and then build from there.
Re: How to become sociable?
Yap about what? The whether? Tests?ertyu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 4:02 amAnswer: go find some weirdos.
I'm only half-joking. I also don't "know what to say" - I don't pre-make a decision to say a thing and then say it, I open my mouth and I yap. So: how does one just open one's mouth to yap? Why don't you just open your mouth and yap??
I'm not really 'nerdy' about anything in particular. Reading in general would probably be it. As for the friends part, I'll take your suggestion and just start "yapping" to them.ertyu wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 4:02 am
But yeah, the short answer is, practice in contexts where you'll start creating positive associations with the thing. If you have easy access to therapy, go -- hasn't hurt anyone. If you have a close friend, ask them to practice with you.
But your best bet is probably people you already are friendly with, whom you can tell, "yeah so I want to become yappier, would you mind giving me pointers / practicing with me."
I mainly want to develop how to formulate and articulate my thoughts into words through conversations. I also want to not have the 'awkward' silence moments with people.
I would say that "Why nerds are unpopular" article sums up school. The popular ones wear nicer clothes and from what I have seen most nerds don't care. I would say though the stereotypes between the groups aren't as prevalent as the articles states. Its also sad that we learn facts and loose them 5 seconds after the test.jacob wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 9:44 amIt's more something one is than something one does.
Read this: https://paulgraham.com/nerds.html
If these subjects do not excite you, you're battling uphill already. You can learn some scripts or interview skills to keep the other person talking but if your mind is screaming of boredom on the inside while it's happening, you might begin to wonder whether it's worthwhile.
What I'm saying is that while being "sociable" or "smart" sounds like something everybody would want, both come with a comprehensive cost function. Being "smart" requires more reading and reflecting than many people would want to. Likewise, being "sociable" requires more talking and keeping up with what other people are doing than some people would want to. And I think that's okay.
The right framework here is to ask yourself if you want to be more interested in other people and what they're interested in as opposed to what you're currently interested in now. Schopenhauer had the right idea when pointing out that you can do what you want but you can not want what you want. If you just want the supposedly positive effects of being sociable but aren't really wanting the people-centered focus that comes with it, it's going to be a struggle.
Unfortunately, those topics of "sports" and "food" aren't that exciting to me. It seems to be the same thing every year. "Oh this team won 2-0 did you see the goal??" and "I tried ___ at ___ restaurant. Have you tried it?" I reply with "Oh cool. Nope, didn't see the goal/haven't tried it" or something that doesn't really add to the conversation.
I see what you mean in the requirement to be more social by basically "Talking the walk but not walking the walk." I want these deep conversations; but, I hardly keep up with other people's lives.
I have also noticed the "screaming boredom" or daydreaming in a few of my conversations. I usually result to "Wow. ____ must have been fun!" and then end the conversation with a "see you, later!" As my mind is already elsewhere.
Re: How to become sociable?
Yes. These conversations are not to exchange meaningful information about yourself or deep thoughts about the world. The purpose is to establish whether the other person is an asshole and to sift out the people one WANTS to be closer to and have the good convos with.Revan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 12:46 amYap about what? The whether? Tests?
Unfortunately, those topics of "sports" and "food" aren't that exciting to me. It seems to be the same thing every year. "Oh this team won 2-0 did you see the goal??" and "I tried ___ at ___ restaurant. Have you tried it?" I reply with "Oh cool. Nope, didn't see the goal/haven't tried it" or something that doesn't really add to the conversation.
These topics are very low stakes and non-threatening. They aren't controversial, and so by engaging at that level, you run less of a risk that you will find yourself opposite a tirade by some sort of nut: a politics nut, a religious/atheist nut, a prejudiced and limited person, etc. If you're engaging at this level and your conversational partner still manages to make it into a rant about how there's dirty immigrants everywhere with their stinky disgusting food and it was all better when women couldn't own property and were all in the kitchen, and politician X will get us back there, cause at least back then people worked hard and there was good normal food, congrats, you've filtered out an asshole.
Then there is the next level: does the other person talk only about themselves, or do they conduct conversations in ways which give equal space to everyone? Do they interrupt people? If they're given a conversation opener, do they express interest in the experiences of others, and in opinions other than their own? How do they handle it when there is a difference of opinion? How do they handle it if there is a disagreement? Do they respect that people may like and value different things, or do they think that they're the smartest one (because only their kind of intelligence matters) and thus, if someone disagrees, they must have bad taste and be wrong? And so on and so forth. The topic doesn't matter. What matters is demonstrating emotional maturity and meta social skills.
When they ask you, have you tried food at a restaurant, they're not trying to establish whether you've had this food. They're trying to establish whether you'll go, "nope, haven't." and cut the conversation there, or whether you'd go, "no, haven't, is it good? when did you guys go? oh, you went on your way back from your walk in the park, what park do you like to visit? I like nature walks, too, I like sitting in the park with a thermos of coffee and a good book." or, you could ask if the whether they've ever tried to make [food] at home -- and get back, "are you into cooking, then?" and you can deepen the level of disclosure and say, "yeah, starting last year, i've really been trying to up my cooking skill, so far I've been focusing on X style of food but I really wonder if Y would be hard." You're following up on the crumbs they left you, you're leavng crumbs to see if they'll follow up on them, and if yes, with what attitude (someone who says, "that sounds hard, just get it at the restaurant, man" is probably not your type of person, whereas someone who says, "yeah me too, actually, i've also been trying to X ---- or, I haven't done much cooking, but I've also wanted to develop more skills and I've tbeen trying to Y" probably is). You're both leaving interest crumbs, but what you're actually trying to show is that you're each a worthwhile person to befriend, because as evidenced by the social and conversational skill demonstrated in this conversation, when the important conversations are happening, you'll have the skill to handle them. No one gives a fuck if you tried FOOD at RESTAURANt.
Re: How to become sociable?
You're hilarious Henry. I also say "Oh I'm sorry" when their car/dog/etc dies.Henry wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 11:14 amNow you got to mourn with a barely above fucking stranger on some dying creature you never met or could give a rat's asshair about. You got to ask for updates and then the day comes when whoever or whatever fucking died and you got to do the whole "Oh, I'm sorry" fucking routine." And what about you? Have you thought about that. You walk into the garden center or the veggie mart and you drop a bomb of a fucking line on that person you kind of flirt with but now you got the pressure to be Louis CK every fucking time you go in to buy a lone fucking avocado. I would really think this question through. I'm not saying dedicate your life to bitcoin, video games and cartoon porn but then again watch out for you wish for.
To narrow in on the question, I would say I would only want to be sociable with smaller groups. I wouldn't usually start a conversation with the gas guy or some random unless I knew them from somewhere else. Why small talk to someone I'll likely never see again. I wouldn't know how to fix their problems or how to deal with them.
What countries are you referring to? I'd say most of them are in foreign languages.AnalyticalEngine wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 12:22 pmI'll also add it's worth it to travel to another country where no one engages in small talk so you can feel sane about your introversion again. America not only has an extrovert bias culturally, but a "!!!WOW!!!EXCITING!!!" bias that does not exist universally.
Thanks for the advice and will attempt to go out and get extroverted friends.
You've given a lot of information for me to think about. Thank you. I'm physically at the events, but not talking or being social. More on the introverted side of life. One reason is I take so long to think of a question or response.7Wannabe5 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2024 2:00 pmBeing sociable, a people person, and/or being a good conversationalist aren't necessarily the same skill set or tendency.
Another example would be that cats are socially and verbally introverted, but physically extroverted, and a rabbit is socially extroverted, but verbally and physically introverted.
How do you have the time to write about all this? I spend a lot of time just thinking of a few sentences.
Re: How to become sociable?
Well, I do waste a bit too much time on exploratory writing and exploratory conversation, but it's generally fun for me, so easy to get into flow state. My purposes for engaging in conversation are different than those of an NF type such as ertyu. I will converse with an azzhole if he is offering interesting information, because my conversational functioning is more like investigative journalist and/or trial lawyer. I know better than to present my "side of the case" to some azzholes, but if I don't ever converse with azzholes then I won't have an accurate map of the world. For worst-case example, I wouldn't know that a human who clearly relishes his memories of killing Viet Cong with a sharpened machete in manner which was in violation of Geneva Conventions is currently wearing a uniform and flying a helicopter around a county where I wish to purchase property.Revan wrote:How do you have the time to write about all this? I spend a lot of time just thinking of a few sentences.
I have more difficulty with helping other people process emotions through conversation, which is what NFs generally desire and are good at. I'm more likely to express kindness through Acts of Service or Physical Touch, which is one of the reasons why I do not initiate conversation with random man on the street.
I will initiate conversation with random women if they are engaged in something interesting. For example, I initiated conversation with a young woman at the cafe where I tutor, because she was building these cool miniature doll house scenes at her table. With people I know well, I will generally just launch right in with something like, "Hi, great to see you. Do you want some coffee or a piece of pie? So, did you read the New Yorker article about the CEO assassination yet?" But, for instance, I wouldn't ask that question of anyone on this forum, because politics is a banned topic, although I am quite curious about what other people thought about it. My general pattern is that I read, read, read, until I am compelled to have conversation, write, or do a project related to what I read. When this cycle goes too quick, I start too feel like my conversation is stupid, shallow, or boring, so I have to load some more reading, practice, or experience into my brain. If it goes too slow, then I am likely mildly depressed or have been forced to do a lot of boring reading on a topic such as database security or I am surrounded by humans who only talk about shopping for dresses on the internet or my job is in an office shuffling through bureaucracy. Also, it is one of my roughly sketched in life purposes to become a garden essayist when I am in my 80s. The gardening essay is one of my favorite forms, because you start out with something very specific going on in your garden, but then you can widen or meander it out to include just about anything.
Re: How to become sociable?
OP, getting some practice might help.
In your shoes I’d download a list of questions like these.
https://dayoneapp.com/blog/journal-prompts/
Then I’d place my smartphone 4’ away at eye level and answer the question. Play it back. Observe how you present yourself.
I did this a lot as a young guy with telephone conversations. I recorded all my calls up to around age 20. Short nervous answers with awkward silence became smooth rolling conversation. It quickly helped me dial in the “gift of gab” which I hadn’t been gifted. I found I changed my tonality, cadence and transitions. My thesis advisor used to tell me to tone it down at conferences because I sounded like a salesman while presenting academic topics. He had this hand wave “down” when I turned into the con man.
I managed to transform how I verbally communicated in about a month using this intensive feedback method. I remember the first tapes vs. the last. You can barely tell it’s the same person. The first one was painful to listen to.
Talking in real time requires a lot of hardwired processing. It’s not just programming. It’s wiring. It’s a lot like walking or dancing. Knowing the steps won’t do the job in real time. You need to practice or it is just like reading a script vs. acting. If you’re unsure of yourself or introverted try talking to the mic first. In recent years I’ve managed to iron out a lot of odd body language that I felt was normal till I saw myself do it on screen.
I used this trick to rapidly improve my dancing, skiing and figure skating too. It’s amazing how fast you can dial in when you rewind video footage and gasp “I do that?”
Best of all it’s free. That’s what we like here. Free ways to improve yourself. Whip out your phone and tell a story to it. Watch it. Then tell it again. Watch it. Then again.
It’s really fun to follow a YouTuber from their first to their twentieth video and see how they change. Same thing.
This hack only addresses a small subset of the skills needed to be sociable. Sounds like you have a bunch of other problems as well. Hope that helps in a small way.
In your shoes I’d download a list of questions like these.
https://dayoneapp.com/blog/journal-prompts/
Then I’d place my smartphone 4’ away at eye level and answer the question. Play it back. Observe how you present yourself.
I did this a lot as a young guy with telephone conversations. I recorded all my calls up to around age 20. Short nervous answers with awkward silence became smooth rolling conversation. It quickly helped me dial in the “gift of gab” which I hadn’t been gifted. I found I changed my tonality, cadence and transitions. My thesis advisor used to tell me to tone it down at conferences because I sounded like a salesman while presenting academic topics. He had this hand wave “down” when I turned into the con man.
I managed to transform how I verbally communicated in about a month using this intensive feedback method. I remember the first tapes vs. the last. You can barely tell it’s the same person. The first one was painful to listen to.
Talking in real time requires a lot of hardwired processing. It’s not just programming. It’s wiring. It’s a lot like walking or dancing. Knowing the steps won’t do the job in real time. You need to practice or it is just like reading a script vs. acting. If you’re unsure of yourself or introverted try talking to the mic first. In recent years I’ve managed to iron out a lot of odd body language that I felt was normal till I saw myself do it on screen.
I used this trick to rapidly improve my dancing, skiing and figure skating too. It’s amazing how fast you can dial in when you rewind video footage and gasp “I do that?”
Best of all it’s free. That’s what we like here. Free ways to improve yourself. Whip out your phone and tell a story to it. Watch it. Then tell it again. Watch it. Then again.
It’s really fun to follow a YouTuber from their first to their twentieth video and see how they change. Same thing.
This hack only addresses a small subset of the skills needed to be sociable. Sounds like you have a bunch of other problems as well. Hope that helps in a small way.
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Re: How to become sociable?
In my experience this is a perishable skill, so unless it's kept up, it'll eventually revert to the baseline. I used to note that my conference presentations would improve if they came in quick succession. (I stack my podcasts for the same reason.) Alas, in my case, eloquence is lost after a few months of not performing.
This is also what I meant above when I pointed out that the OP should not just want the skill (to be sociable) but the effect of it (to be social).