Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Where are you and where are you going?
jacob
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by jacob »

okumurahata wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2024 1:26 pm
Could someone provide some stats? I'm just curious to know the percentage of forum members who achieved FI outside of the 9-to-5 grind.
I'm not sure anyone is collecting starts, but there's ~1000 journals to go through if you want to put numbers on an estimate.

I think the answer is that it depends.

If you have control over the amount of work you do, but it's still a "grind", then semi-FI or semi-ERE seems to be the preferred strategy. This can either be only working seasonally, like 4 months per year, or only working a few hours per week. (In the US, this is not an uncommon strategy in the tax preparation industry. Probably also fits a lot of tourist trades.)

If you're so passionate about work that work is its own reward/isn't a grind, that is, "I'd do it for free"/"I can't believe they're paying me to have this much fun". This was the case for most of the time I spent in astrophysics and finance. I was fortunate that the passion only wore off in the last couple of years of those two "careers". In this case, FI basically comes about as a coincidental side-effect of being to so busy with work---practically living at the office---that it's hardly "9-5" but more like 5-9 ;-) :mrgreen:

The most common situation seems to be one where people are in full time jobs that were once interesting but is now less so and not chosen for their income potential. IOW, people did not choose the strategy of "grinding it out", their source of income chose their strategy for them.

AxelHeyst
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by AxelHeyst »

Anecdote: I had a 9-5 that I was passionate about, then got burnt out, then found ERE praxis, then got laid off well before FI threshold. Bummed around/semiEREd for a few years. Currently cranking rapidly towards FI threshold via side-hustle-turned-entrepreneurial-endeavor based on my old skillset, but maintaining high quality/relatively balanced lifestyle (not whiteknuckling).

If you want stats, throw together a survey people can respond to anon and make a thread to get eyeballs and discussion.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

July 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 45.056,67 EUR
Cash: 21.389,02 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 66.445,69 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 2.300 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+
Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 21,09%
A year at the forum, 20k wealthier.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

August 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 46.625,06 EUR
Cash: 20.899,79 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 67.524,85 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 2.000 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 2.000 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+
Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 21,43%
I've got some good news: my girlfriend has got a job in the retail industry, earning minimum wage and working within the consumer paradigm. Customers buy clothes they won't use for more than a year, putting money in my girlfriend’s pocket, which, by osmosis, also ends up in Mr. Okomurahata’s bank account.

Following the news, we’ve agreed to contribute proportionally to our meagre salaries. So, the distribution of expenses will be around 30% for her and 70% for me. I imagine chaps from the States laughing at the salaries we have in Spain. If you thought my salary was low (pretty much minimum wage in the States), my girlfriend's is even lower. But hey, it’s a test to see if an average European can retire early.

In summary, we are now two DINKs with low salaries. Playing with the numbers, a virtual reduction in expenses by 30% thanks to my girlfriend’s contribution puts me at a current WR of ~13%. This could be the biggest jump in my WR in a while. However, I’ll continue to maintain my goals, because at any moment, my girlfriend could find someone other than Oku, and I’d be back to square one.

Reading from the forum, the biggest mistakes people make that prevent them from achieving FI are:

1. Buying a house bigger than they can afford and getting into debt for it.
2. Buying a car (even worse if it’s on credit).
3. Getting married and having kids. Weddings and babies delay the FI date because things get more complicated as the family grows and as you involve the government in family decisions (chances of divorce also increase substantially after getting married).
4. Buying too much stuff, going to restaurants, excessive shopping, electronics, i.e., consuming more than you have. I don’t like restaurants because I have to make forced conversations with waiters and try to be nice to people, but I do like electronics and the latest gadgets.
5. Optimising expenses too much and retiring too early, then moving to a third-world country, e.g., Thailand.

Out of all the traps, Oku steps into number 4 but falls like a waterfall into trap number 5. The idea of living near the beach, doing nothing while drinking watermelon ice shakes and dealing with the subsequent diarrhea is appealing to Oku, don't ask me why. The unstructured time, the 'no rules', the street food, the coffees. The free time to read and write whatever I want. The price of flâneurism in Thailand is much cheaper than in other European countries.

The problem is I don’t want to fall into the trap and do it too early, running out of money and needing to come back to my desk, chaining myself to my chair, and saying, 'Yes boss, I’m having so much fun here, the place is amazing, and the coworkers are some of the best people I’ve ever worked with! If I didn’t need to pay the bills, I’d come here for free!'.

With 175k, I could take some time off and be almost free. With 315k, Oku would be booking flights to some Asian country, riding a motorcycle and having great adventures, meeting weird strangers, having coffee, exercising, reading, etc.

Mousse
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Mousse »

okumurahata wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:55 am
The idea of living near the beach, doing nothing while drinking watermelon ice shakes and dealing with the subsequent diarrhea is appealing to Oku, don't ask me why.
Your writing style is a delight :lol:

Your list is interesting. #5, leaving too early vs the risk waiting too long always seems like a particularly difficult one to figure out.

guitarplayer
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by guitarplayer »

Do you take this for two people?

“ With 175k, I could take some time off and be almost free. With 315k”

I am curious because I think I would. I often see that my estimates of how much ‘nest egg’ is sufficient are almost always significantly lower than people around, also on this forum. Both DW and I (we took the stab at a marriage and though risky proposition I think it brought high reward in this instance) are gliding working out of choice just now and I feel like in two or three years when we will have a liberal net worth estimate (ie ‘good money’, retirement accounts, flat outright etc) of about £300-400k + state pension from ca. 70 at about £8-10k/year and growing as well as citizenships of countries with free public health care, money will become irrelevant for the most part.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

My monthly report considers the costs for both of us. We spend around 12k per year. If we were to break up, my expenses would hardly change, as most of them are fixed costs like rent, electricity, water, phone, etc. The only area where I’d see a reduction is in food, but it would be minimal—perhaps around 100 EUR.

In Thailand, we spent 800 EUR per month for the two of us (mostly rent), living in a small condo with really nice amenities like a swimming pool, gym, and coworking space. Looking back 8 years, I remember wanting 50k to buy a condo in Thailand and an additional 15k to be financially comfortable for over a year and a half. Now, I could buy that condo in Bangkok and still have 15k left. However, we are currently accumulating savings in Spain, which is quicker than doing so in Thailand. Even Spain’s minimum wage is higher than what you’d earn in Thailand as an ordinary citizen.

We spend very little because we don’t enjoy many of the typical activities that most people do, such as going to parties, drinking, smoking, or buying cars. We’re fortunate in that regard. Our Achilles heel is clothes for my girlfriend and gadgets for me. However, she gets clothes at special prices because she has always worked in the retail industry, and I only purchase expensive gadgets with dividends; everyone has their weaknesses.

My girlfriend’s family owns land and houses in rural Thailand. We could live there for free, but I know I need some Western amenities after a while. For me, the ideal balance would be to spend 6 months here and 6 months there.

ertyu
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by ertyu »

okumurahata wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2024 11:55 am
The idea of living near the beach, doing nothing while drinking watermelon ice shakes and dealing with the subsequent diarrhea is appealing to Oku, don't ask me why. The unstructured time, the 'no rules', the street food, the coffees. The free time to read and write whatever I want.
...

With 315k, Oku would be booking flights to some Asian country, riding a motorcycle and having great adventures, meeting weird strangers, having coffee, exercising, reading, etc.
We should team up :lol:

Edit: if your gf is from Thailand, that's a great advantage when it comes to settling there. Fingers crossed and good luck!

Henry
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Henry »

I knew a guy who always said if he had a kid he would push him into hedge funds. So he had a kid but the kid came out kind of fucked up and if the kid does make it Wall Street it will be to sweep up the floor of the stock exchange. There are still parabolic appreciations of homes but that is more the result of happenstance than planning. You can marry money but the divorce rate is so high who knows what you will capture in the end. There are potential benefits to big ticket items but it appears safer avoiding them especially if you can adopt to some alternative path like ERE. Curtailing spending vices are easy. It's like exercise. Just do it. Doing and not doing are equally difficult but at least they are possible. Undoing can actually be impossible.

guitarplayer
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by guitarplayer »

Thanks for sharing @oku.

Generally do you consider Spain okay for working and saving? Looks like DW and I will be working from the Spanish capital later this year, I will do remote work but DW will work with Spanish folk there. It will be interesting to find out the white collar culture in Spain and if it is very different to here.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Spain is enjoyable after the typical 9-5 workday, in my opinion. Low salaries and unpaid overtime are common in many businesses. For example, my time in consulting was a nightmare, but that's just my personal experience and not indicative of Spain as a whole. I reckon that the DeloitteAccenturePwCMcKinseys have the same issues globally. It seems that you need to wear a suit and stay at the office until late night to sell a Smoke.pptx to banks.

The capital city is renowned for its sociability, and after-work gatherings are common there. In contrast, Barcelona is less social in this regard, which suits my personality better. Generally, the further south you go, the more open and sociable people are. Again, this is a generalisation.

Spain is excellent in social security terms, with good healthcare, unemployment benefits, and other aspects like healthy and affordable food, nice weather, and plenty of holidays. If you work remotely for a company and have a foreign salary, you can save a significant amount. I believe a salary higher than 60k puts you in the top 5% of earners.

Current problems include the housing bubble, increasing rents, the touristification of cities, and the gradual degradation of the pension system.

With my current salary, I don't lack anything and can save a bit each month. While I wish I could earn more, it could be worse, so I'm content.

guitarplayer
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by guitarplayer »

I look forward to us trying it out for ourselves! Hopefully no unpaid overtime for DW.

ertyu
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by ertyu »

oku, how goes it, do you live

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

September 2024 update:

Code: Select all

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Assets
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stocks: 47.749,27 EUR
Cash: 21.088,07 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 68.837,34 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Liabilities
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Debt: 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 0 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly income
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Job: 1.599 EUR
GF contribution: 200 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.799 EUR
+----------------------------------+

// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
// Monthly expenses
// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Rent: 500 EUR
Electricity: ~40 EUR
Water: ~20 EUR
Internet: 40 EUR
Food: ~400 EUR
Gym: ~50 EUR
+----------------------------------+
TOTAL = 1.050 EUR
+----------------------------------+
Progress until retirement (considering 25x yearly expenses):

Code: Select all

⬛⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜ 21,85%
Low salary this month due to high taxation not paid from previous months. My last contract finished in July, and they planned taxes according to that. I expect to have this net amount until the end of the year.

Spent 429 EUR on a new Apple Watch Series 8 Stainless Steel. Nothing to celebrate, but the retail price was 830 EUR a year and a half ago. I saw the offer and couldn’t resist the beautiful stainless steel and sapphire glass. It’s a bit foolish to spend on a disposable watch, but electronics are something I enjoy. I paid for it with dividends accumulated over the whole year. I gave my old Apple Watch SE to my mum, and she was very happy with it.

August is a blessing for going to work because everyone else is queuing at the airport, heading to the usual summer destinations. Meanwhile, my girlfriend and I spent a few evenings at the beach around 8 PM, using public transport (the 21.35 EUR T-mobility monthly card is a blessing). We played paddleball at the beach, rented electric bicycles for 0.15 EUR a trip, and some days, we visited my mum’s house to swim in the pool. Sometimes I feel like I’m my retired grandad in the body of a thirty-something-year-old.

Last, I’m down the rabbit hole of small projectors, considering installing one in our room to watch p̶o̶r̶n̶ Snow White on a large screen at night. I think it would be cool to have, so we could use it in our room or in the garden. I saw one for 50 EUR on AliExpress, but it honestly looks like rubbish. The best quality-price ratio seems to be with XGIMI (MoGo 2) and Xiaomi (Mi Smart Projector 2). I’ll wait a few months until I accumulate more dividends to see if this is something I really want or just a temporary desire sparked by YouTube’s marketing team.

Henry
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Henry »

okumurahata wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:04 pm
Last, I’m down the rabbit hole of small projectors, considering installing one in our room to watch p̶o̶r̶n̶ Snow White on a large screen at night.
I thought a well painted wall could serve as a screen.

delay
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by delay »

okumurahata wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:04 pm
Low salary this month due to high taxation not paid from previous months. My last contract finished in July, and they planned taxes according to that. I expect to have this net amount until the end of the year.
Thanks for your journal update! That tax thing happens in The Netherlands too. There was a year where I worked two contracts, and both deducted as if it would be my only contract for the year. I got a nasty surprise after filling taxes in the next year...

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Chris
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Chris »

okumurahata wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 12:04 pm
Last, I’m down the rabbit hole of small projectors, considering installing one in our room to watch p̶o̶r̶n̶ Snow White on a large screen at night. I think it would be cool to have, so we could use it in our room or in the garden. I saw one for 50 EUR on AliExpress, but it honestly looks like rubbish.
What is your current video viewing situation?

Projectors seem cool, but can often be an underwhelming PITA. Because they're portable, it's easy to think that they'll just be something you can stow when not in use, and pull out setup in a flash. But they're rather temperamental, since they need to be adjusted based on distance and angle. Being small, then you need to be careful that a wiggle of the HDMI cable doesn't move them out of position. And of course image quality is majorly impacted by the projection surface: despite what the product images show, you won't be projecting a great picture on just any surface.

Then there's the sound. Many projectors come with a low-end speaker, but these will pale in comparison to your laptop speakers. And you'll want some decent speakers, to drown out the sound of the projector's cooling fan.

But they're popular (and cheap) enough that it's likely you know someone who has already bought one and has buyer's remorse. A great opportunity to try one for free!

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

@Henry, our room has a textured wall with gotelé (a Spanish term for a type of rough plaster). The translation of ‘screen’ might not be the right one, but that’s what I meant. If it was a joke, I’m missing it.

@Chris, we have a 10-year-old, 32-inch Samsung TV. My poor eyesight makes it difficult to read things on it. I’m not much of a Netflix person—I mostly watch YouTube, particularly videos in the style of Harald Baldr. My girlfriend, however, is a fan of Korean series, so I think she’d enjoy a better viewing experience than I would. I don’t plan to connect anything to the HDMI port, and the projectors I mentioned have auto-keystone correction, so it should be easy to get a decent setup in our room. Sound is also fine for what we need. However, since we already have a 32-inch TV, I’m not in a hurry and will think twice before making a purchase. If I get the chance to try it out first, that would be ideal. I might also consider buying it refurbished. Or maybe forget about it in a few months.

Henry
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by Henry »

okumurahata wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2024 8:47 am
@Henry, our room has a textured wall with gotelé (a Spanish term for a type of rough plaster). The translation of ‘screen’ might not be the right one, but that’s what I meant. If it was a joke, I’m missing it.
That explains it. No joke. Enjoy your porn and Disney.

okumurahata
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Re: Embracing Solitude: INTJ's Journey Towards Retirement

Post by okumurahata »

Guys, I need some perspective. As you know, I got promoted a couple of months ago. Basically, I said I’d quit at the end of the contract if conditions didn’t improve. I got what I wanted in exchange for higher responsibilities. I’m grateful to this forum for giving me the courage to ask for things I felt were fair.

However, because of contractual terms and holidays (I need to take them before the next contract), my new salary won’t kick in until December 2024, and the contract ends in March 2025. So, I’ll only get a taste of what it feels like to have a higher income. They’ll probably extend the contract, but I’m not counting on it.

Anyway, I’m a very quiet person who hardly speaks in meetings, and today the director publicly mentioned my promotion. I went red and so on. Maybe I’m being paranoid here, but I feel like some people didn’t like it. I’m a bit worried that people might feel resentful towards me and make things more difficult.

I have two questions for INTJs. How would you handle this situation? My common sense tells me to focus on work and not let others’ attitudes affect me… Honestly, I wish nobody knew that I got promoted.

On the other hand, the director said I should be more vocal in meetings. I’m engaged, but I give the impression that I’m not. As time goes by, it’s getting increasingly harder for me to speak up. I feel small around higher-ups and think that what I have to say isn’t important. I’ve tried to prepare in advance what to say, but I don’t find the moment to say it (I always find an excuse not to talk). How can I improve?

Feedback from people tells me that I speak very softly. I’m reading loudly 20 mins per day to improve, and recording my voice. I obviously don’t sound like a radio presenter, but I don’t feel that I sound that bad. Maybe at meetings, I get so nervous that my voice becomes incomprehensible. Then I choose to stay silent.

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