Western Red Cedar's Journal

[C40]

Sounds like you and I have stayed in the exact same building in Kuala Lumpur (well - maybe not the exact one since there is a pair of the ones I was in). I think I read that this part of the world has more lightning than anywhere else, and after being there for a while I don't doubt it.

I loved those Indian food places. I was going to the one next to a big old tree.. but after I while I was concerned about getting sick from their food. Delicious though.

[Western Red Cedar]

@C40 - Sounds like the spot. We never had any problems with the Indian food, but always ordered off the menu rather than from the buffet. Street food and those types of restaurants are often a bit of a gamble, but I've found that when there are plenty of locals around, it is usually a pretty safe option. There definitely seems to be some AirBnB hotspots in the nomadic hubs in SE Asia. I think I've landed in another here in our condo in Chiang Mai. You were right about the coffee culture here. It is extremely impressive with a lovely style and experimentation. A complete 180 from what I found in Bangkok and Krabi.

[Western Red Cedar]

July Update:

Financial:

The markets continue to rise and we keep riding the wave. We saw a solid NW increase of five figures this month and are at a new high. The whole plan - rising equity glide path, geoarbitage, fulfilling wanderlust in low-cost countries, working through the beginning of 2024 to take advantage of Roth contributions, hedging our bets with high equity exposure in the first couple of years - it all seems to be working out as well as I could have hoped for.

With that said, I still haven't been able to completely shake the scarcity mindset. That mindset was likely a major variable in our current financial position, but at some point it loses its value. It is kind of like anxiety in that regard; helpful to prepare, but dangerous and self-destructive when left unchecked.

We'd likely be fine mathematically drawing down principle based on the backstops available after we turn 65. Yet, I continue to have to deal with lingering effects of the scarcity mindset. Fortunately, the nomadic lifestyle regularly challenges me in this regard. Exposure to unique opportunities and the realization that time passes quickly and that life is fleeting challenges me to continuously evaluate and adjust my spending.

We often talk about freedom-from and freedom-to, but I think the scarcity and abundance mindset is an equally valuable discussion. It seems like the scarcity mindset is pervasive in much of the FI sphere.

Physical:

I've been back to my lifting regime of six days per week, and really enjoy my gym here in Chiang Mai. I didn't lift at all in May, but have been back at it for the last six weeks. I'm also consistently getting 10-20k steps, as the neighborhood we are staying in is quite walkable. Funny enough, it is easy to move regularly throughout the day when one isn't tied to a desk or computer.

I've only taken one "rest day" since arriving and that was the morning I did some hiking to the Buddhist monasteries on the edge of town. I've been feeling good with solid sleep, but plan on taking a day off from resistance training tomorrow. I'll probably opt for a Thai massage. I had one a few days ago, with the masseuse walking on my back and twisting me like a pretzel, joking near the end that one hour wasn't enough. She found all the tension in my rear deltoids and traps, and was cranking away with her elbows.

The whole practice of Thai massage is actually quite fascinating and a lovely insight into their culture. It started as a spiritual exercise, with practitioners trained in monasteries. They focused on energy lines in the body, as described in Buddhist and Yoga literature. Traditionally the massage would start with a prayer, and looked more like yoga than a massage. It reminds me a little of intense form of myofascial release by someone who has a deep understanding of anatomy.

Travel:

I've mapped out the rest of the trip through early September. DW and I will have two more major destinations, then plan on heading back home for 2-3 months at the end of August. We need to apply for a new passport for DW, and take care of some banking stuff and other random logistics. We thought about staying in SE Asia as long as we could, through February 2025, but it made more sense to head back to the PNW for the end of summer and early autumn. We'll enjoy our hometown much more in September/October than we would in February. I might even be able to sneak in a couple backpacking trips in September (along with an epic Trek here in SE Asia if things work out...). I've started cashing in some of the remaining travel points, so the flights back home and back to our next destination are covered.

After that? We aren't entirely sure, but it will likely be back to Asia or South America. An Asian itinerary might include some more time in Thailand, Sri Lanka, the Philippines, Laos, Cambodia, and Northern Vietnam. The more likely option is South America (DW's preference). She chooses the continent and I make the itinerary. Colombia, Ecuador, and then Argentina could easily fill six months. I love Mexico and we may stop there first to maximize travel rewards. I think DW would love both Mexico City and Oaxaca, so we'll see how things play out. I'd love to visit Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Brazil as well. But, one great thing about S. America is the length of stay on a tourist visa. I find myself continuing to balance going deep in one country, versus going wide.

[AxelHeyst]

We'd likely be fine mathematically drawing down principle based on the backstops available after we turn 65. Yet, I continue to have to deal with lingering effects of the scarcity mindset. Fortunately, the nomadic lifestyle regularly challenges me in this regard. Exposure to unique opportunities and the realization that time passes quickly and that life is fleeting challenges me to continuously evaluate and adjust my spending.

We often talk about freedom-from and freedom-to, but I think the scarcity and abundance mindset is an equally valuable discussion. It seems like the scarcity mindset is pervasive in much of the FI sphere.

I was reading (I think) Ed Thorpe's book A Man for All Markets and he talked about having a good offense and defense wrt one's financial systems. I hadn't thought in those terms yet and wonder if there's some relation to scarcity and abundance. Specifically, I wonder if a system that is unbalanced towards defense is going to necessarily cultivate a scarcity mindset?

A football metaphor (American, but probably works with soccer as well): if you have a killer defense but negligent offense, then yeah you're unlikely to get scored on (ruined/wiped out). But if something wild happens and you do lose yards, you don't trust your offense to regain yardage/score. So your head is necessarily going to be focused on not losing yards, as opposed to having a balanced perspective that if you do lose yards because your d effs up once or twice, you've got a solid offensive capability that can make up for it.

And I mean, you do have a solid offensive capability (you are highly employable), but at least for now you don't want to go back to a trad j*b, hence emphasis on defense (living off stash). I guess what I'm wondering is, does it make sense to cultivate those alternative activities which throw off incidental yield that are highly aligned with freedom-to, in order to prove to yourself you live in an abundant world and demonstrate wide ranging attractive offensive ability? Or is it more just inner work to do, to realize that you're probably fine and the worst case scenario just isn't that bad?

I recognize in my own journey that immediately post-layoff, I had strong scarcity mindset because I'd never earned nonW2 money as an adult. My offense knew how to do one thing only. After a few years of experimenting with different ways of earning income with an emphasis on freedom-to and incidental yields, aka learning different types of offensive plays, I have a much more abundant perspective.

[C40]

I want to go to Mexico / Central/South America - but - I'm scared of violence there. Not sure how realistic that fear is.

Bangkok does also have great coffee - better than Chiang Mai actually. But the best shops are more spread out and mixed in amongst everything whereas in Chiang Mai good shops are easier to find and get to

[2Birds1Stone]

I want to go to Mexico / Central/South America - but - I'm scared of violence there. Not sure how realistic that fear is.

Ditto, not just violence but also issues in infrastructure and general political/civil unrest. Ecuador recently had a nationwide blackout which caught a lot of people by surprise.

[theanimal]

I want to go to Mexico / Central/South America - but - I'm scared of violence there. Not sure how realistic that fear is.

'

Ditto, not just violence but also issues in infrastructure and general political/civil unrest. Ecuador recently had a nationwide blackout which caught a lot of people by surprise.

I can't speak for South America but much of the fear in Mexico is overblown. Most incidents happen near the border where drug/cartel activity happens at a higher rate than elsewhere. It's similar to the US in that there are certain areas you do not go. However, instead of avoiding just parts of cities like in the US, (say south side of Chicago), there are larger regions like cities or states that are best avoided to minimize risk. Some current examples being the states of Sinaloa, Michoacan, and Colima to name a few. You probably could still travel to those areas and be OK (see @Jimmy's travels to Sinaloa in winter of '22-23(?)) but I think you'd be taking on much higher risk.

Mrs. Animal and I have been told a few times by a handful of Mexicans that (certain) cartels have policies not to touch or mess with any visitors (Jalisco New Generation being one example). Not sure if it's true or not, but I've never felt unsafe travelling there, even as the sole very white gringo in non touristy areas with a baby. And fwiw, Mrs. Animal lived there on her own for about a year and a half off the beaten path and holds a similar sentiment.

Overall, given the travel experience and smarts of you two and others here, I don't think you have much to worry about. Mexico has a population of 130 million people and the vast majority have nothing to do with the cartels. It's a beautiful country with a strong culture. Check the news for current info on where you'd like to go, but by all means go and enjoy it!

[C40]

I wrote a long post but I'm removing all the details because I don't want to discuss them. I will leave the most interesting part:

Also - something for me personally is: a LONG time ago someone in my family (who has also now been dead many decades) was attacked in Mexico, and killed the guy in self-defense/over-reaction. The details of the story really stick in my memory. Like a Quentin Tarentino movie scene.

In short, a couple things I think are important:
1 - Value placed on human lives (themselves and others)
2 - Willingness and speed of becoming violent

Latin America has the bad combination of 1-low, 2-high.
Where I live now, it's 1-low 2-very low

[guitarplayer]

I want to go to Mexico / Central/South America - but - I'm scared of violence there. Not sure how realistic that fear is.

DW is from there and confirms violence, but this is versus Europe or UK specifically which are safer than the US I think because it’s not like people walk around here with guns.

When I was in Colombia and Brasil local friends insisted we drive everywhere rather than walk, for me not to exchange money in a regular exchange office to avoid getting mugged etc. we ended up going walking places sometimes, eg free walking tour in Sao Paolo but the tour guides were also ware all the time. Also the way there walking, we passed some dodgy places and swarms of homeless people (but I read on the forum this is something you see in the US too sometimes?)

[2Birds1Stone]

A good friend of mine moved from the USA to Argentina to take over the family textile business from his parents. He has been mugged several times, car jacked twice and kidnapped once. During the kidnapping the perps drove him around from ATM to ATM having him withdraw money at gun point. He got away by jumping out of the moving car in a higher pedestrian traffic area....

Argentina mist be nice otherwise, because he hasn't moved back to California or South Korea (where his family also has roots).

[Ego]

Yeah, the ideal mix would be the gentle, kind people and low cost, high quality of living of Southeast Asia combined with the short flight, time zone, long visa, language crossover and drivability from the US that Mexico offers.

Colombia was doing well in this respect, but things seem to have changed.

[guitarplayer]

I am a big fan of Europe and vote for it. For EU passport holders with an itch for some novelty and moving about every so often it could arguably provide enough material for a lifetime. All the languages, price tags, tints of cultures from all over, various architecture.

[theanimal]

If you're willing to share, I'm curious. Didn't you drive through Baja in your van travels? Granted Baja California Sur doesn't have the reputation of violence or as much crime as other states. But Baja California certainly does. What was different about your mentality in regards to traveling through Mexico then versus now?

[Western Red Cedar]

I've been to Mexico on three occasions, each for approximately a month. The first two trips were solo, and DW and I went to the Yucatan a couple years ago. I traveled everywhere by bus/train. I only had positive experiences, except for missing a couple flights. The first trip was through Sonora, Sinaloa, and Nayarit, with a week at Barrancas Del Cobre. The second started and ended in Mexico City, with busses down to Oaxaca, Puerto Escondido, Zipolite, San Cristobal De Las Casas, and Palenque. I felt the need to exercise caution at times, but never ran into any problems

I basically agree with Van Neistat's impressions of Mexico in "Magical or Dangerous" (he has another video where he and his wife were robbed at gunpoint in their truck on a subsequent trip).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DezjGRoKpRI

I'd probably be a little hesitant about driving a personal vehicle there, particularly with American plates; but I never drive internationally either.

DW and I also spent three months in Central America. We took busses everywhere. A few parts of Honduras and Nicaragua felt sketchy, but we didn't have any issues with violence. I'm not particularly worried about violence there, but realize it is a risk. I'd put together an itinerary that limits the risks. One of the major benefits for S. America is the opportunity to practice and improve my Spanish, which has been lingering at an intermediate level for years now. Six months of immersion would be amazing.

With that said, one of the compelling things about living or traveling in Asia is the safety here. DW feels comfortable walking around by herself, and I never worry about venturing out and about after dark. It feels quite a bit safer than the US to both of us. It also offers great value for the cost, and just feels culturally exciting for westerners.

I agree that Europe has a lot to offer, but we are focusing our initial travels on low-cost destinations with opportunities for adventure. Europe is the kind of place where it is easy to travel as one gets older.

[Western Red Cedar]

I guess what I'm wondering is, does it make sense to cultivate those alternative activities which throw off incidental yield that are highly aligned with freedom-to, in order to prove to yourself you live in an abundant world and demonstrate wide ranging attractive offensive ability? Or is it more just inner work to do, to realize that you're probably fine and the worst case scenario just isn't that bad?

I recognize in my own journey that immediately post-layoff, I had strong scarcity mindset because I'd never earned nonW2 money as an adult.

It is almost completely inner work I need to focus on. I know mathematically we are fine. DW may return to work in late 2025, which further reduces any financial risks. It is just hard for me to change my mindset after saving for almost a decade and trying to hit a specific number. My options for freedom-to activities while nomadic are also limited, because I'm balancing my own needs and wants with those of DW. Things like workaway, WWOOFing, or low-cost pilgrimages are off the table for the foreseeable future.

In some ways the trip itself is a meta example of cultivating a freedom-to activity with secondary yields (lower COL, adventurous, educational, restorative, etc...).

I actually think that our drawdown strategy and asset allocation is more "offensive" than "defensive" and that is one of the reasons we've done so well since leaving the salary behind.

[Western Red Cedar]

-Visceral reminder that you carry all your old baggage with you wherever you go. Sometimes I'd wonder why I'm not happier sitting in paradise, doing what I've dreamed about for years. Sitting at a picture-perfect Thai sunset or Vietnamese beach and not feeling that much more content than I did back home.

I wanted to revisit this thought as I’ve had some additional time to reflect on this. The notion that I wasn’t happier when sitting in paradise, achieving exactly what I set out to do, really bothered me. I’ve thought about this dynamic a lot over the last few months and want to get something in writing as a personal reminder.

It wasn't necessarily old baggage I was dragging along, though that might have been some small facet of my experience. The primary mistake I was making was assuming that leaning into pleasure, and to a lesser extent entertainment and novelty, would bring happiness or contentment. On a very basic level, I was thinking that maximizing pleasure would bring happiness. It is a juvenile mistake, and a bit embarrassing to admit publicly. Nonetheless, it is a reoccurring mistake in my thought process and behavior, which is why I’ve been thinking about it regularly over the last few months.

A couple weeks ago I started digging into some old David Foster Wallace interviews and speeches. One of the themes he explores in Infinite Jest is the cultural imperative to focus on achievement, pleasure, and entertainment to find meaning in contemporary society. Each has their addictive grip. This is the three-headed dragon I’ve been blindly navigating around for decades.

Pleasure and entertainment have the obvious pitfalls. Technology and capitalism have created a formidable beast on that front that gets more frightening each year. But, achievement has its own pitfalls as well. DW thinks achievement is the most salient of the three for me, but I know they each have their place. Achievement is just the one I'm least ashamed to present publicly. Even after finding professional success and achievement, and feeling comfortable leaving that behind, I still find myself getting caught up in other, personally-defined achievements. Net worth, expenses reduced, books read, skills developed, miles hiked, countries/cities visited, adventures undertaken, personal records in the gym, cords split, projects completed, etc…

I long ago gave up on the idea of sustained happiness. Happiness always seemed fleeting to me. Instead I try to prioritize contentment. Contentment seems like it is longer-lasting, and built on a stronger foundation than happiness. The tricky thing is that often some form of pleasure, entertainment, or achievement fosters contentment. It typically doesn’t last though, and it is easy to begin searching for the next milestone to recapture that feeling.

I don’t really have any answers, but simply remaining cognizant of those three variables and the ease in which I tend to lean into them to fill a void seems like an important starting point.

[ertyu]

It wasn't necessarily old baggage I was dragging along

It's not baggage it's a habit of relating to experience

[OutOfTheBlue]

Thank you for these honest personal reflections that I think are potentially super relevant to many in these forums. These are great insights to be had while on the road. In a sense, traveling (but also your availability and attentiveness to inner experience while doing so) has allowed for this.

(Extended) traveling can be a like a magic washing machine that presents you with your own baggage, old and new, (or more broadly, your psyche) in new ways. Sometimes, things get a good tumbling, and come out cleaner, other times, they come out stinking like before, or worse, if they stayed wet there for too long.

For me, the "worse" thing one could do, the most unfortunate response when encountering this uncomfortable feeling of "voidness" (from achievement, pleasure-seeking, entertainment, and the like) in the initial RE phase of ERE/FIRE would be to go back to work (at least, when used as an escape to safe/familiar territory). This would only kick the can further down the road.

Instead, this might be a golden opportunity. For inner work (and that's real work too!) and further growth and deconditioning, certainly, but maybe also simply for inner life.

Beyond the experience of voidness, all this seeking (leaning on the three variables above, etc.) points to something deeper. In my own experience, it speaks of a great longing that many actions are trying to fulfill or respond to, and only partially ever do.

You mentioned contentment as a more solid, sustainable goal/ground than happiness. To me, contentment feels like an inadequate word/descriptor, but I get what you are pointing to. And I'm thinking of some better terms that are to be found in another language, Sanskrit. Many Sanskrit words are multivalent and these are no exception, but let's see.

The words are ānanda (joy, bliss) and camatkāra (wonder, fascination, sense of beauty or awe).

The thing is that, contrary to English, these words do not imply a feeling of happiness as opposed to unhappiness. There is an intrinsic joy/aliveness/wonder that does not depend on life circumstances, and can be there even in the midst of sadness, anger, even boredom (let alone happiness).

Because it does not derive from the contents of experience, but from experience itself. Turning inward and cultivating awareness of that ground of being that permeates everything is what I call inner life.

Like an old scripture says:

“I am happy,” “I am suffering,” “I am attached,” and so on— those experiences clearly operate within another [larger Being], in which states of happiness etc. are strung together [like beads on a string].

Notice the thread that's running through!

And a contemporary comment on cid-ānanda (the joy of awareness):

"When you truly recognize the Self that is the ground of every moment of experience, you realize that it is inherently blissful with a joy that derives from the very fact of being conscious, rather than from what you are conscious of. In fact, that quiet joy is a signal that indicates you have in fact accessed the true ground of your being. When awareness rests in itself fully self-aware, it always accesses its intrinsic joy (ānanda) in some measure."

[Jin+Guice]

Hey! Just catching up on what you wrote about your travels as I'm about to embark on my own 2 month journey. It looks like you've had an excellent trip from the pictures you posted!

I think what you wrote about in the last post is especially salient. As more people cross the threshold into early-retirement and WL6+ lives, they why of it all becomes increasingly important. Moving away from the three-headed dragon of achievement, pleasure and entertainment leaves a void that is not easily filled.

[Western Red Cedar]

(Extended) traveling can be a like a magic washing machine that presents you with your own baggage, old and new, (or more broadly, your psyche) in new ways. Sometimes, things get a good tumbling, and come out cleaner, other times, they come out stinking like before, or worse, if they stayed wet there for too long.

This analogy is lovely and spot on. I love it! Thanks for sharing and the broader response.

You mentioned contentment as a more solid, sustainable goal/ground than happiness. To me, contentment feels like an inadequate word/descriptor, but I get what you are pointing to.

I think what I'm talking about is actually peace. That word carries connotations though, which may be why I avoided it. For me, the joy of awareness is a major ingredient in my personal conception of peace.

And I'm thinking of some better terms that are to be found in another language, Sanskrit. Many Sanskrit words are multivalent and these are no exception, but let's see.

The words are ānanda (joy, bliss) and camatkāra (wonder, fascination, sense of beauty or awe).

The thing is that, contrary to English, these words do not imply a feeling of happiness as opposed to unhappiness. There is an intrinsic joy/aliveness/wonder that does not depend on life circumstances, and can be there even in the midst of sadness, anger, even boredom (let alone happiness).

Because it does not derive from the contents of experience, but from experience itself. Turning inward and cultivating awareness of that ground of being that permeates everything is what I call inner life.

Once again, this is lovely. Thanks for sharing. One of the beautiful things about exploring other languages is that cultures often have words or phrases to describe a feeling, activity, or experience in a particularly astute fashion.*

The only other, English word, that I'd add to happiness/joy/bliss/pleasure/contentment/wonder is fulfillment. I think fulfillment fits into the broader recipe, in a way that is often antithetical to pleasure.

*One unrelated example of such a word that struck me deep was Tsundoku - letting reading materials pile up without reading them. Piles and piles of books in my old apartment, more than I could read in a decade. I couldn't even get rid of most of them when leaving on this trip Now I have piles and piles in storage.