Jin+Guice wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:50 am
I've been having the feeling that we need more complicated language for what is getting talked about.
[...]
*F(i)= Feeling/ introverted? I understand the MBTI letters and 16 types but I'm still confused about the second letter in brackets and it's purpose.
More precise language always helps.
MBTI posits that the mind is made up of four different kinds of functions:
Thinking and Feeling (correlates with Agreeableness in Big5/OCEAN)
Intuition and Sensing (correlated with Openmindedness in Big5/OCEAN)
All four can be introverted or extroverted (correlates with Extroversion in Big5/OCEAN).
This begets 8 different kinds of functions:
Te, Ti, Fe, Fi, Ne, Ni, Se, and Si.
According to stack theory, we all have all 8 of those functions. The order of preference defines our temperament. (People without a strong preference do not display a strong type of temperament.)
For example, INTJ is Ni-Te-Fi-Se. It is dominated by introverted intuition (the primary focus) as supported by extraverted thinking. Introverted feeling provides background checks on the support (e.g. if the logic doesn't feel right).
The shadow also contains 8 which are the flipped version of the temperament.
The INTJ shadow is Ne-Ti-Fe-Si. The shadow is often ignored. Since it is ignored it is poorly developed. It may still surface under stress and if it does so, it does not come out well since it is poorly developed.
Now ... the actual descriptions of each of the eight functions depend on how mature/developed they are. A well-developed Fi (a strong drive for authenticity) as you would find in an INFP is not the same as a poorly developed Fi (a naive sense of justice) as you would find in a ESTJ. But even these are better developed than the Fi that exists in the shadows of half the types because they're more focused on how others are expressing their feelings than what their own values are.
Overall, the difference is the following:
Fi is about remaining true to your own feelings. The concern is directed inward. It's your internally generated morals based on your gut-feeling about "what is right". Heavy Fi users will seek "authenticity" which is an even stronger form of "principles". Fi is what makes some break the law because "they know in their heart that the law is wrong". Fi will constantly examine whether their values and behavior are in accordance with their feelings. A Fi person will struggle to do something if they're not happy about it.
Whereas ...
Fe is about remaining in harmony with other people's feelings. The concern is directed outward. Ensuring that everybody in the group is comfortable, happy, and feeling good. Heavy Fe users will see to it that everybody else's feelings are seen and validated even if it means sacrificing their own feelings. Fe is the generator of sympathy. A Fe person will struggle to do something if there's tension or conflict in the group.
---
1) Note that Fi and Fe have an inherent conflict between the person and the group in terms of whose feelings get priority. This can make it hard for a Fi-dominant and an Fe-dominant to communicate. While they both talk about feelings, they're talking about different directions for those feelings. For example, the ENTP (Fe in third, Fi in 7th) might give the sad-looking INFP (Fi in first, Fe in 5th) a cookie to cheer her up only to be surprised how this makes the INFP even sadder.
2) Note that these concerns get overall priority depending on how deep in the stack they are. This ranges from "this is who I am as a person" to "couldn't care less" depending on who you ask.
So for example, ... it is a rare US corporation that gives a flying fart about whether its employees feel like their work is true to their feelings (Fi). Instead, work is typically compartmentalized in the work box. "Just doing my job". Conversely, during the lock down and the beginning of WFH, the Fe-style check-in ritual became rather common: People could share how they were feeling today ("The weather is nice and I just ate a fresh tomato, yay!", etc... although I doubt there were any deeper conversations of "the value of a career to me as a person" (Fi) happening during those check-in rounds.
OTOH, in the Nordics and in some ESG sectors, corporations pay much attention to whether their workers are living their values. "It's not a job. It's an expression of who you are", a calling.
I'd say US culture on average is "concrete rule-based" (Si) and "procedurally logical" (Te). However, you can certainly find the droids you're looking for inside the US.
But again, whether you want to depends on the person. I personally find Fe-rituals on par with how most people feel about presenting a math problem (Te) for the class. I've done a few rounds of those "share your emotions with the group" and it's never gone very well. I find the whole exercise dreadful. This was perhaps construed as me not being in touch with my emotions or repressing them, but actually it was more of a "where do I even begin/what do you want to know/why is this relevant to the group in the first place?" Fe is 7th for me, I don't have any need to talk about feelings and I'm not very good at it because I rarely do it. Conversely, because Fi is 3rd, I have a fairly good idea of what I feel about a given situation and I don't need to talk to others about it to figure it out (I'm fine talking to myself about them). Feelings inform my principles---my principles inform my system---my system selects my choices.