Llorona's Log, Take II

[horsewoman]

Another voice for normalising going NC. I haven't seen or spoken to my mother in 4,5 years. Luckily (no irony, I really mean that) my parents are divorced and I've still got my dad, brother and stepmom.

I can relate to feeling defective or broken, but in the end I've told myself firmly that I am able to have healthy relationships with other people, so I cannot be alone to blame.

My brother has also been estranged from her for 4,5 years and he gave her the same "ultimatum" you gave your mother - there has to be some therapy/counseling going forward, if this thing is to be repaired. Radio silence ever since, so I suppose "being right" is more important than having a relationship with kids and grandkids.

It hurts a lot and over time it becomes a scab one scratches off now and then - no clue it it ever goes fully away. The role of "unloved daughter" is no fun to play... I try very hard to better with my own daughter.

[llorona]

There have been a few studies (here is one) that the ROI on home remodeling prior to sale is negative. Realtors always encourage remodeling because it bumps up the home price and in turn bumps their commission. Good luck.

@Ego: Yes, I've seen the data. It isn't pretty, is it?

This said, we've worked with our realtor twice before and referred her to our friends. She's stellar, and a big part of this is her integrity. She flat out told us that she doesn't have a magic crystal ball to see what the market will be like in a year, and that investing too much in the kitchen would be risky. We agreed if the kitchen remodel can be done for $30K or so, there's a good chance it will be worth it. If it's more than that, we'll do minor upgrades to spruce it up.

[llorona]

I can relate to feeling defective or broken, but in the end I've told myself firmly that I am able to have healthy relationships with other people, so I cannot be alone to blame.

@horsewoman: Thank you for chiming in. I wonder if it's pure coincidence that a group of us here has gone NC or if it has something to do with ERE attracting folks who go against the flow.

You make an excellent point about having the ability to form and maintain healthy relationships with other people. In this regard, I feel extremely fortunate to have good relationships with people around me, especially my husband.

It hurts a lot and over time it becomes a scab one scratches off now and then - no clue it it ever goes fully away. The role of "unloved daughter" is no fun to play... I try very hard to better with my own daughter.

I don't know either if it will ever go away. For most people, I'm guessing feelings probably surface around holiday or milestone events like graduations or weddings.

A friend is fond of saying: you can learn by example or counterxample. That you're aware and actively trying to relate differently to your daughter speaks volumes.

[ertyu]

Diy EMDR has been good. Involves essentially staying with my feelings and bawling as I move my eyes left and right. Ymmv, + the actual certified people want to discourage the majority of people from diy cowboy self-therapy, but for me at least it's been good.

[llorona]

Diy EMDR has been good. Involves essentially staying with my feelings and bawling as I move my eyes left and right. Ymmv, + the actual certified people want to discourage the majority of people from diy cowboy self-therapy, but for me at least it's been good.

Do you feel tired after? How do you know it's working? (No need to go into detail if it's too personal.)

[ertyu]

I wouldn't say tired, I'd say lighter. And the reason why I say it's working because I am less batshit about things. You can see it over time in my posts, even, I think. 3-4 years ago, there's this madman howling like a banshee in his confusion. Now, I am less reactive. I can think of/remember a thing that happened without an accompanying emotional intensity, it would just be a thing that happened. While many taut EMDR as a one-and-done, almost magical fix, I have found that after an initial intense round of working with a thing, there's still stuff to "mop up" around the edges of the same issue: Imagine a heated ball of lava if you will, and then as time goes on and I do more of, "thing comes up - I go, "ah there it is" - I stay with it, physically in my body, while moving my eyes about it, and I follow whatever unspools -- as I do that, it's like the ball of the issue becomes patched with cool, solid places, but there's still places where the floor is lava that remain. That's ok that i don't see them now, I'll encounter them eventually and when I do, I'll move my eyes about them.

Over time, investigating the same issue brings up less intensity. So, while initially I might have needed privacy for my big reaction, these days I can be walking, or being at a coffee shop, and the things that come up would be less of the intense howling hurt type and more of the sadness-and-heaviness-in-my-torso kind. I would not cry or bawl, just sigh and release, and there would be peace.

If you can afford it and you have access to quality mental health care, you might consider doing some of the initial, more intense work with a trained therapist and do any "mop-up" by yourself. Official protocols recommend to stop and go to your "happy place" when it gets too intense; well, I decided that I'm a slav and happy places are for sissies and just pushed through even if that meant intensity and hiccoughing tears (this might not actually be necessary and might be me trying to be "tough" because I somehow think i need to suffer and have it be intense if it is to be "real" and "enough", i don't know - some sort of misguided no pain no gain mindset where the only "legitimate" effort has to be difficult).

Some people find youtube videos of moving dots useful and many therapists used them to do distance emdr over the pandemic, so you might try those. A blank wall or sitting next to a large body of water where the horizon is a distant line works better for me. EMDR is very standardized and you can find books with "protocols" as well -- first ask the client this, then that, blabla. i don't follow them for the same reason i don't follow recipes, i can't be fucked -- into the pot it all goes, now boil it with salt and cooking oil, good enough. But depending on your personality type, a more structured approach might be better suited. But I guess what I'm trying to say is, it still works even if it's not done "perfectly" and according to the protocol. In the end, if it's too much, you can stop.

[IlliniDave]

@Ego: Yes, I've seen the data. It isn't pretty, is it?

This said, we've worked with our realtor twice before and referred her to our friends. She's stellar, and a big part of this is her integrity. She flat out told us that she doesn't have a magic crystal ball to see what the market will be like in a year, and that investing too much in the kitchen would be risky. We agreed if the kitchen remodel can be done for $30K or so, there's a good chance it will be worth it. If it's more than that, we'll do minor upgrades to spruce it up.

I had some pretty good luck with doing some limited remodeling on my prior home before selling it in September of 2021, although being a sample of one it's hard to tease out exact numbers. I updated the kitchen a little bit--formica countertops replaced with granite, new stove to replace a 25-year old model. I also replaced carpeting in the living and dining rooms with LPV, and replaced a lot of brass finishes with brushed nickel (door knobs, ceiling fans, and light fixtures) so the house wouldn't scream "90s". And I had the entire interior of the house repainted. I could look it up if you're interested, but I think altogether I put in $16K-$20K and the house sold for about $100K more than the as-is listing price the agent suggested 4-5 months prior to the upgrades and listing. I did get lucky with a hot market that summer, and there's no way of knowing what it would have sold for if I did nothing. My main goal was to get it "move in ready" and enhance the salability. Even going back only a year, comparable houses in the area were languishing for months on the market at lower $/sq ft price points. I was under contract 48 hours after listing. I didn't even accept the highest offer which came from a hedge fund based in another state, and sold it to a young local family instead, mostly because I really liked my neighbors and didn't want them to have to deal with a rental property managed from out-of-state on the block. The difference in offers was only $2,500 so it's not like I was super magnanimous or anything.

Your realtor sounds a lot like mine--she was pretty straight with me, and even hooked me up with a interior design consultant who specialized in prepping homes for sale. She (the consultant) made all the decisions/selections, and even arranged and rode herd on the contractors, two things I hate. Between the two of them they talked me out of a number of things I thought needed doing, and came in well below the goal budget we set.

[macg]

My realtor's advice when I sold my mom's house, that had a crappy kitchen from the 1970s... "sanitize it"... Meaning, paint it a neutral color, replace the handles / knobs, throw the simple cheap snap-together flooring down. Make it look clean and neutral.

His logic was instead of spending tons of money and then raising the price of the house, leave it in a state where the buyers can easily picture how they want to remodel it themselves with the money they're saving.

I'm no realtor, and that's the only one I ever had to deal with, so I'm sure there are different opinions, but I liked this one lol

[llorona]

@IlliniDave: Hey, it's nice hear from an ERE oldtimer! I appreciate you weighing in with your experience. Happy to hear you got lucky with selling at the right time! Also, you make a good point that the sale price isn't the only factor - it's also important to generate momentum and sell the house quickly, because letting it languish on the market also costs money.

I love that you sold the house to a family rather than a hedge fund.

@macg: Ooh, that sounds super easy! Did your mom's house sell quickly? What you described is our realtor's Plan B if the remodel is too expensive. Her advice is to play up the vintage aspect by painting cabinets, replacing hardware, installing new countertops and a sink, etc.

I'm realizing that context about the local real estate market is important. Where I live, three types of houses go on the market:
1. House is in terrible shape so buyers scoop it up for the land, intending to tear down the structure.
2. House is dated and sold as is, then investors swoop in and flip it.
3. House is turnkey.

For instance, elderly woman lived up the street. Her house was similar to ours in terms of bedroooms, square footage, etc., but she hadn't done anything to it cosmetically for decades. After she passed away last year, flippers picked up the house for $735K. The house is similar to ours in terms of bedrooms, square footage, etc. When the flippers came in, they installed a new kitchen and bathroom, windows, flooring, lights, etc. It just sold for under $1M.

I can totally see how buyers would have certain expectations at this price point. It's a lot of money. It also follows that we stand to walk away with a decent payout from the proceeds. So even if shelling out a Jacob for staging or five Jacobs for a kitchen remodel goes against my values and hurts my heart, we don't want to be penny wise, pound foolish.

[llorona]

@ertyu: That's a fascinating account of your experience. You describe it so articulately! What you mentioned about the intensity fading is similar to my experiences with EMDR. Very happy to hear it's worked well for you and helped you to achieve balance and emotional regulation.

I've been done with EMDR for over a year. I feel like the benefits of therapy continue to show up in the decisions that I make and how I choose to live my life. My hypothesis is that clearing the early childhood trauma somehow unblocked me and is allowing me to explore new pathways. But there's no way of knowing for sure whether this is what's happened or if it's simply a function of becoming older and wiser.

[ertyu]

I mean, there are people who get older while getting very much unwiser, so I guess as long as one puts conscious effort into working on one's inner can of worms, it doesn't much matter if the work is formal therapy, a meditative practice, structured journaling, or what

[macg]

@macg: Ooh, that sounds super easy! Did your mom's house sell quickly? What you described is our realtor's Plan B if the remodel is too expensive. Her advice is to play up the vintage aspect by painting cabinets, replacing hardware, installing new countertops and a sink, etc.

This was back in 2012ish, but yes, it sold quickly... Around 4 months, but only that long because the first buyers couldn't finalize their money.

[7Wannabe5]

I went no contact with my mother for about 3 months a number of years ago. It's difficult to maintain when other family members with whom you very much want to remain in contact aren't doing it. Anyways, hugs to you.

[IlliniDave]

@IlliniDave: Hey, it's nice hear from an ERE oldtimer! ...

I thought the same thing when I saw your journal pop back up on the "Active Threads" sort.

[llorona]

Uprooting
In my last journal entry, I talked about our upcoming plans to relocate but not the reasons why.

Nine years ago, we bought a beautiful old house with solid bones on a street lined with sycamore trees in a close-knit community. At the time, our entire neighborhood pitched in for private security, so a contracted company would patrol the streets during daytime hours. The surrounding neighborhoods were questionable but we felt reasonably safe here.

Prior to the pandemic, the city was on the upswing. There was a sense of vibrancy and excitement, with cute new businesses and restaurants opening up. Our neighborhood hosted community events and block parties. Conditions weren't perfect; having your car windows smashed or your car stolen were considered par for the course, but it was a reasonable tradeoff.

Conditions began changing after shelter in place eneded. Neighborhood security patrol disappeared without a whisper. Community events halted. The vibe started shifting and becoming darker. We started hearing more gunshots at night. People began driving recklessly, blatantly running red lights, tossing trash out the window, and aggressively tailing other cars.

It's hard to connect what happens realtime with the bigger picture, but in retrospect these were the signs of a city sliding backward and beginning a downward spiral. Without getting into politics, this is what happens when a city defunds the police without thinking through the ramifications.

The darkness has crescendoed over the past year. There's an unprecedented sense of lawlessness. People know they can get away with anything from shoplifting to waving guns around. It's common knowledge that the police department cannot or will not do anything. Property crimes have turned into violent assaults. In the past month alone:

• An elderly woman was assaulted and carjacked at gunpoint in my grocery store parking lot in broad daylight.

• A local photographer was heldup at gunpoint and his camera equipment was stolen.

• Someone was shot and murdered at the gas station near our house in the middle of the day.

• A friend of a friend got into an alteracation on the freeway near our house; the occupants of the other vehicle pulled a gun and shot his vehicle twice, so he ran them off the road.

• My very peaceful husband unintentionally got into a roadrage incident; he merged on the freeway, the other driver became irate about being "cut off" and attempted to hunt him down.

The last one was the clincher. This is a shit way to live. This *gesturing hand around* in indicative of a sick community. It's getting worse every day and there's no plan from the mayor or the police. There is no hope on the horizon. The only thing holding the city together is normal citizens who hold themselves accountable. We're on our own, and it's just a matter of time before something goes down and we end up dead, maimed, or traumatized.

So, DH and I have accelerated our relocation plans. We will be moving to Portland in early 2024 while the house is renovated and goes on the market.

Money
Purely looking at things from a financial perspective, this isn't our best move. Relative to the Bay Area, we have cheap housing, clocking in at just over $2K/month for mortgage, prop taxes, and insurance. For some reason (ignorace? relative affordability?), nice people are still snapping up houses in my neighborhood. Assuming they're taking out a mortgage, they're paying upwards of $5-6K/month to live here. I wish them well.

Ignoring everything else, our best financial move would be to either stay put or rent out the house. However, staying is no longer an option and we've decided that renting the house is too risky since California and our city/county have some of the most tenant-friendly laws in the nation. In other words, if a bad tenant moves in, it becomes very costly, if not downright impossible, to remove them.

So, we're heading to Portland and our plan is to rent for 6-8 months. We'd like to live centrally so we can bike rather than drive and hopefully integrate with the community. Our housing costs will almost certainly be more expensive in the short-term. I'm not sure about the long-term; it depends on whether we decide to buy a house in Portland or apply for a digital nomad visa to go to Spain. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Grief
Some people relocate as effortlessly as changing their underwear.

I'm not one of them. I didn't expect for such conflicting emotions to arise: anger, relief, excitement, sorrow. It partly stems being robbed of choice. Even though we were already thinking about moving, it was going to be on our timeline. Now that the dial has turned up on violence and crime, we need to move and it's stripped us of making the choice on our terms.

I've spent nearly half of my life in this city. I have deep roots and attachments here. I love our century house; we've spent hundreds of happy hours maintaining it, piddling about the garden, etc. My chosen family is here. My two long-term partners are here. My clients are here.

Each of these things is hard won. I am losing a lot.

Every morning, I wake up either in a panic or with a lump in my throat. I cry almost every day. I wonder if I'm too attached or too resistant to change. I wonder if this is just a phase or if I'm going to feel like absolute crap for the next eight months until we pack up and move.

Logically, I know we will rebuild and perhaps find happiness. It's the Law of Attraction and Letting Go. But until it actually happens, I'm not sure I actually believe it. And this is really the crux of why I'm posting here; this post is marker so I can come back later and see how life has played out.

[chenda]

Hi Llorona

I'm so sorry to read about your city's problems. It definitely sounds like you're doing the right thing leaving but it must feel horrible to feel like you are being forced into it. I hope the move goes smoothly anyway.

I can recommend some places in Spain if you decide to head this way.

[theanimal]

Portland in Oregon or Maine? If it’s the former, I’m very curious why you chose that as the next place given your reasons for leaving. Because at least from afar, SF and there seem to share many of the same issues (some present to a larger extent in Portland), with the major difference being Portland has less wealth.

[Frita]

Ah, the loss of choice can be traumatic when one’s reality does a 180. It sounds like getting out now will avoid the personal experience of big-T trauma though I write that in no way to minimize what you are experiencing and witnessing. Living in a safe place is so fundamental. It sounds like you are working on creating something new. I wish you well with all the changes.

Your observation of the devolution of your community post-COVID is interesting. Come to think of it, I have noticed something similar here in that people have reverted to what the community has traditionally been. I suppose it shouldn’t be a surprise as it is human nature to regress to less mature/functional coping skills during times of crisis. Why shouldn’t a system mirror that? Perhaps it’s a nod to understanding the history of a location to discover what may lurk underneath.

[Slevin]

Some blues for your blues. Best of luck that the move happens without issues, and your renovations get you top dollar.

@theanimal agreed, but you can probably pay your way out of that. Trading a Bay Area home (even in the cheaper parts) for a Portland one straight up you would skew towards the nicer parts Portland which have a lot less of the issues. The Bay equivalent would be something like: People in Marin county are not having these same safety issues that the Tenderloin and market street are (The nicer areas just have some small amount of property crime).

[Henry]

There have been a few studies (here is one) that the ROI on home remodeling prior to sale is negative. Realtors always encourage remodeling because it bumps up the home price and in turn bumps their commission. Good luck.

Fixing up the house for the new owner. Big mistake. Paint and call it a day.

Why? It's not just the money. It's because if you are moving into a new home you are tired of remodeling so you don't have the fresh energy to put the work that is required into the new one.