Mastermind Group #2: Electric Boogaloo

[ben2000s]

Thanks for the interest! Sadly I believe this group is at our limit for attendance, as we are trying to make it so that everybody has time to contribute in our 1 hour meetings, which gets harder with more people.

If you or someone else is willing to volunteer to lead a third group, and make a post asking for interest, I have the intuition that it would get enough replies to start a new group after a little time. I have noticed a trickle of interest over time, even after this group filled up.

No worries. Yeah I started a group here: viewtopic.php?t=12572
Please send people this way

[grundomatic]

For our next round we are reading and discussing the book Early Retirement Extreme. The discussion will happen in our live meeting, but I figured I would post some discussion starting points from Chapter 1 here to get everyone thinking.

We tend to like philosophies that are already somewhat aligned with our personal values and talents…We’re all different and it’s up to each of us to develop, grow, and walk our unique path…This change isn’t easy

What drew you into the ERE philosophy?

A couple other great quotes to start discussion:

Pg 11 This challenge can become a struggle if your frame of mind is incompatible with your adopted lifestyle. In other words, you need to believe in your lifestyle as an end rather than as a means to an end.

Pg 7 To successfully break free of one’s chains, one must build an overarching philosophy of what it means to live...

To what extent have you developed your OWN philosophy of what it means to live?

A few other quotes that spoke to me that I'll gladly talk about if we get to it:

Pg 6 To live well, one must go beyond lists and start thinking creatively about solving problems. One must accept a lot more personal responsibility than merely showing up on time, following orders, checking off boxes, and trying to fit in.

Pg 8 …provide them the time and freedom, the lack of which has previously prevented them from getting things done and caused relations with friends to stagnate or degenerate into acquaintances or “networking opportunities”.

Pg 12 This book gives you the tools and shows you how to use them. However, it can’t give you the experience in using them, nor can it give you the courage to do it; that is up to you.

Pg 13 A high level of dissatisfaction can be accompanied by low vision in cases of depression, loss of faith or vision, or by external circumstances.

Pg 14 If you feel differently about change, modify my approach to suit your personality accordingly.

We are also supposed to discuss chapter 2, which I have reread, but didn't pull any quotes from. All I could do was purse my lips and slow nod.

[seanconn256]

Here's a summary of the meeting we had recently, on the first two chapters of the ERE book, "A different frame of mind" and "The Lock In".

• First we talked about the similarity of some of the critiques of society/consumer capitalism in both chapters to other critiques, Marx being an example, and how the analysis could possibly benefit from those other perspectives
• how ERE as a whole seems to have a engineer+introvert bias, which pops up every so often, but particularly where ERE described as a was of fixing things that both works if everyone does it and if only individuals do it (section 2.6)
  • this stems from the difficulty of finding social connections while living alternate lifestyles, and the different mindset most adults are in when work is their main life activity
• On school/the education of children, the point that school trains students to become little factory workers was well taken, but with some contentions about the need to instill some structure in children's behavior so they can learn basic life skills like reading/writing, and how the forced socialization helps kids develop (section 2.1)
  • this was described as a "learn the rules so you can later break them" situation, were there is a need to start somewhere
• we gave check ups on how much we have progressed through the lock-in, how much we have incorporated each element in our ERE plans (bullet points in section 2.6)
• some discussion about economics (sections 2.3 and 2.4)
  • how we need to move the global economy past growth (
  • how interesting it is that ERE very clearly speaks against automatic/mindless investing and yet the rest of the fire movement talks about index funds all the time
  • if Jacob's proscriptions for the economy are correct, specifically about calling it similar to a "Keynsian stimulus project" and "demographic ponzi scheme"
  • we largely agreed, but had some discussion about how some things can be transitioned from ponzi schemes or are already not comparable
• on how to stop trying to follow lists to do ERE, with most relating that at one point we tried to treat ERE like pre-made plan, and how that did not work for any of us (chapter 1, page seven)
  • we thought it may be a necessary step to hit that wall at some point
  • to move past it, there were recommendations to get tactics from other sources (this is also mentioned in the book). This necessarily means you are compiling the lists, and combining them yourself, which starts to get you thinking for yourself
  • the importance of asking yourself often if each lifestyle component you build is a good fit for you individually

[grundomatic]

Last week some in our group had an informal social meeting with no agenda. At one point we (or was it I?) ended up joking about the "permissiveness" of our group. One member has obliterated food costs? Great job! Another member values going out to eat? That's great, too! I was reminded of the above post, and wondering if that group ever resolved "accountability vs supportiveness"?

I know for me, I cannot understate the benefits of the socialization and support of the group. So much so that I've been nudging (bugging? hard-selling?) a couple members that may be transitioning their locale to try my locale on for size. It came up in our last regular session that aside from a very few "gifted" people able to almost instantly change to a renaissance person, switching "species" is hard! In the quoted post, the struggle of being pulled back to the status quo is mentioned. If the goal is then to help oneself, others, and the ERE movement at large, then it just seems right to push to the next level of ERE engagement. As far as I know, an intentional community like this https://earlyretirementextreme.com/buil ... unity.html or the city MMM was mistaken to have actually been planning has not been created, but maybe the time has come for another small step in that direction.

[Divandan]

Is the group taking in new members to join in on the conversations? I think I am at a juncture where having people to bounce ideas off of would be super helpful.

[AxelHeyst]

I'd say it feels like we've resolved the tension we had regarding accountability. In other words, we're not approaching our MMG dynamic like a conventional entrepreneur based MMG, which I imagine are very RESULTS OR GTFO. It might be accurate to call it a social club where we use the artifice of goals and accountability as an excuse to build relationships with each other.

But! In a fun twist, it's those relationships and interconnectedness that might contribute to accelerated ERE 'progress' more than any amount of goal setting! And also is a desired outcome in and of itself, regardless of tangible progress.

Im glad to hear there's at least talk of members getting physically closer to each other. We might not ever pull off ERE city... But ERE nucleation sites? Now that seems feasible.

[grundomatic]

@Divandan

Pretty sure seanconn is going to tell you our group is full.

However, since I got called out for what I told the last person looking for an MMG, I'll tell you that if you try to start one yourself and nobody joins, I'll join you and we can have a group of just two until more people come around.

[seanconn256]

@Divandan
Sadly @grundomatic is right, we are at our limit for how many people can reasonably contribute in a hour meeting.

Also, meeting summary that I forgot to post:

Summary discussion Sat 25 Feb: Over ERE book chapters "Economic degrees of freedom and Renaissance Ideal"

All of us have experience in the "salaryman" quadrant. Some in other quadrants too. The total concept of the quadrants as a way to describe grades of freedom was understood by all.

During the salary quadrants discussion, various members noticed:

• that being in a particular quadrant is also related to one's temperament.
• that working some time in all the quadrants helps to develop to notice the difference between them.Also that it broadens one's idea about freedom and to helps you eventually reach out to the renaissance quadrant.
• that hobbies can be used to train for working in other quadrants too.

Further we spoke about adaptation and complexity. An insight from the ERE book, that it is much easier to not spend money than it to earn more money, is one of the big eyeopeners for all of us. The skill to adapt in ones life is an important one, a difficult one too. Due to (extreme?) changes in the world at the moment we all found it worthwhile to become adaptable, to be ready when we meet adverse situations. One of our members is living within a 1000 miles from the war of Russia/Ukraine, and its social and economic impacts are quite apparent to them, underscoring the importance of adaptation
Next was a discussion on the Renaissance ideal. Some thought their image of the renaissance ideal was similar to living as homesteader, doing everything yourself. Others thought of it more as being able to have (some) skills about many things, to reduce spending and increase marketable skills.
The lists in the book about copying/comparing etc was found to be helpful instrument to see how one "grows" to another level of skill. Even a skill like handling stress well can be gauged by applying such a list. As well as becoming your own "lawyer" or otherwise taking on typically "professional" roles by taking time to learn skills.

[Divandan]

Sounds good and no worries. I will either start a new one or be on the look out for a new one kicking off. Thanks!