Western Red Cedar's Journal

[RoamingFrancis]

Sounds like you're digesting some good wisdom. Thank you for working to address climate change, even if indirectly, and the reflections on purpose.

As always, I commend mindfulness practice

- RF

[Western Red Cedar]

@Jiimmy - I'm glad you enjoyed it. I always do my best to enjoy the journey, but it is easy to get caught up in an unknown/idealized future. Ironically, staying present is one of the best counters against anxiety.

Anxiety is something that's been crippling in the past here too. Still comes back every now and then, mostly in work related situations.

One of the things I've failed to learn, is how to leverage the FU$ to create more mental slack and internalize the fact that many of the fears causing the anxiety are self inflicted. Broken down, the worst case situation causing much of that anxiety is usually some missed deadline at work?, a bad performance review?, embarrassment possibly? They rarely have a real material impact on the rest of your life, yet I tend to get very worked up sometimes.

Well said @2B1S. So many things I was stressing over were minor, work-related issues. None of them really matter in the grand scheme of things. A lot of it probably stems from my own ego, spending too much time focused on myself, and too much time in my own head. Figuring out my triggers also really helped. It is amazing what a clean diet and a good night's sleep will do for one's mental health.

I have had some success in terms of leveraging the stash to limit anxiety. I was able to negotiate 60% WFH prior to the pandemic, ironically a few months before everyone was full-time WFH. This led to better sleep and a more chill WRC. I'm now at the point where I don't think I'd ever want a job that was in the office more than once a week.

@RF - Thanks for the kind words. I've been neglecting my morning meditation the last 6 weeks but you are a nice reminder to pick it back up.

[mountainFrugal]

The headspace method of noting metal states, especially anxiety, helped me in the past. Not that I am completely free from it, but practicing Noting of mental states when things were calm turned out to be the best defense for when they were stressful. Also, learning to sit with the emotion and just note it sometimes shows that it will pass when you are just trying to be curious about it. I am glad you are working through it. Also try using your backpacking to try to note positive mental states away from distraction. Noting all mental states/emotions will help reinforce your practice.

[Western Red Cedar]

@MF - Headspace has been a really valuable tool for DW and I. I'm much more comfortable when anxiety pops up now as a result of some of their techniques such as noting, as well as just understanding it is a natural human emotion that you can't shove away. As a fairly logical/rational individual, it helped a lot to simply learn about anxiety. The whole experience also made me a much more empathetic individual. I've tried to be more open about all of this IRL because I think a lot of people are suffering in silence.

I have a habit of noting positive mental states when backpacking, hiking, or on walks. Mostly because I find myself most at peace or content when I'm out in nature. I tend to process a lot of stuff and do a lot of thinking, but if I'm out alone in nature for a few hours my mind will stop racing. I can appreciate something simple like the sun reflecting off a river or the grass blowing in the wind. I think I'm content because I'm truly present. Spending a couple days alone in the backcountry is even better because I experience these moments dozens of times.

I like the idea of proactive noting of mental states more frequently in my daily life though. I'm not currently doing this during my "regular" life and appreciate the recommendation.

[Lemur]

I can relate all too well with the struggles of anxiety. You sound like me...most of your anxiety seems to stem from your occupation. Over the years, I read many books on the topic, lectures, and all that stuff. Read into cognitive behavioral therapy...dug into philosophy.

The anxiety I used to deal with used to be really debilitating. I dreaded every conference call, meeting, presentation, and lost a lot of sleep. Now I run meetings with 30-40 on the conference line, no problems with zoom, etc. I still get worked up occasionally but I feel like the extremes are gone. Though work from home has really helped! I also relate to that - I can't see myself back to the office more then 1 day a week. Life is just so much better.

My ultimate conclusion was that this is something that I'm just gonna have to deal with. It is just a part of me that needs to be accepted. That final analysis in retrospect helped calm the extremes of the symptoms down - full blown acceptance. My advice - consider accepting anxiety as a part of yourself.

Anxiety is not something to be solved, it is something to be utilized. It is a call to action. My favorite resource and reminder to this day is David Reynold's teachings in Morita Therapy - specifically the book 'Constructive Living.' Here is a list of quotes from his work: https://constructiveliving2.weebly.com/quotes.html I think you'll find them useful.

Last - good job picking up the weight lifting. I picked up tennis a few months ago as an outlet. It has helped - exercise is generally good for the body and spirit but also as something to give yourself a focus on in the present. Maybe your next anxiety trip you'll follow along with this phrase I burned into my brain from David Reynold's:

1.) Accept your feelings (let them bypass like you would if you were mediating, like saying hi to a passing stranger)
2.) Know your purpose (separate your ego from the event) and
3.) Do what needs to be done (A mark of maturity is doing what needs doing despite feelings). On this note...despite the panic attack and being locked in your hotel room you still got out and did what you needed to do. That takes courage and I'm sure you grew from the experience. This also helped me tremendously - whenever I get into a real panic before something like that...I tell myself the phrase from Reynolds but I also think to myself "this is a cool experience, I'm going to grow from this." It is not a lie to one's self but a truth - the more we do something we're uncomfortable with the more confident we get and the more we grow personally and professionally.

And perhaps a psychological reward is needed post objective: "Cool I get to bench press after this."

[Western Red Cedar]

@Lemur - thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts and experiences. I've mostly come to the same conclusions as you, and feel much more comfortable with anxiety.

My ultimate conclusion was that this is something that I'm just gonna have to deal with. It is just a part of me that needs to be accepted. That final analysis in retrospect helped calm the extremes of the symptoms down - full blown acceptance. My advice - consider accepting anxiety as a part of yourself.

Anxiety is not something to be solved, it is something to be utilized. It is a call to action.

This really hits on where I landed.

In terms of a call to action, I listened to this podcast with Callie Russel today - viewtopic.php?p=246231#p246231

Some of the discussion on anxiety and depression reflected the science I've been reading about in The Nature Fix. Too much time in cities and urban environments - too much time away from nature - tends to wear on us and make us anxious. Perhaps my call is to spend less time living in boxes, staring at boxes, and more time working in and wandering through the woods. That is what I'm thinking lately anyways.

Ironically, I love large cities and urban environments. The culture, architecture, chaos, efficiency, and history.

---

This whole discussion seems rather timely with Simon Biles removing herself from Olympic competition as a result of mental health concerns this week. She said she was influenced by Naomi Osaka, who did something similar a couple weeks ago. I'm encouraged by the discussions I've heard in the media recently regarding mental health. It seems as a society we are getting much more comfortable talking about mental health. Perhaps because we've created an environment that exacerbates a lot of mental health problems.

I appreciate Johann Hari's take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB5IX-np5fE

[Married2aSwabian]

Thanks for sharing about your struggles with anxiety. DW and our daughter have it and take prescription meds. I’ve occasionally suggested that therapy and / or mindfulness would be a helpful complement to the meds, but not happening at the moment.

It’s easy to see why such a large portion of society struggles with this, especially when you consider factors increasing anxiety are additive and we now have pandemic and climate change as part of the mix.

For me, Insight Timer, therapy about once a month, reading books on Zen Buddhism, swimming or hiking nearly every day and especially mindfulness practice have been what’s gotten my through the past year and a half. I found myself getting pretty anxious the other day about several work related assignments combined with upcoming air travel (first time since pandemic). A 20 minute meditation session really helped with, as you mentioned, just focusing on what’s there - thoughts, feelings, sensations, etc. and being with that. Self-acceptance / appreciation / compassion is also a big one for me.

[Western Red Cedar]

Financial:

NW - $416,521 (Increase of $5,438)

Another step forward financially. Last month I failed to acknowledge that I crossed a pretty significant financial milestone at 400k NW. I was waiting for that for a couple months. Currently at almost 70% of the FI goal. The snowball has progressed much faster than anticipated, and a lot of that momentum is a result of the last 8 months.

Our spending this month was much higher than normal, but all of the expenses were planned and aligned with our values.


Professional:

A great month at work. I made good progress on the big project and managed multiple meetings with a wide range of external stakeholders. A lot of the hard work I put in the spring is now paying off. I'll have some other significant milestones to work on over the next few months, but I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on things.

I opted not to apply for the new position I mentioned upthread. I updated my resume and seriously considered it, but don't feel excited enough about it to take it on right now. It was actually quite similar to the last management opportunity that opened up. Everything looked good on paper, but it didn't feel right. In both situations, I've taken a page from DW's approach to big life decisions and relied on my intuition. This is a very foreign concept to me, but I'm trying to get more comfortable with it.

I've been really stoked about the last 6 or 7 jobs, dating all the way back to college. I'm not feeling that right now about most of the professional opportunities available, and I don't feel right about managing a team if I'm in that headspace.

Right now my stoke is centered on travel, exploring new cultures, and creating some adventures. Part of my intuition tells me that following that stoke may lead to much more interesting opportunities - professional or otherwise - than working behind a computer for another few years.


Social:

July was a great month. I finally feel like things are returning to normal after the pandemic. A few different friends came into town over fourth of July and it was great hanging out, swimming in the river, and catching up at some poolside barbecues.

Since DW wasn't working, we decided to see some friends and family in Seattle and Bellingham. It was the first time we had seen some of them in two years and the weather was glorious. I forgot how nice summers are in western Washington, and really miss living there. So nice to be near the water. I did a couple of my favorite hikes with family. Then hung out with my brother and his family for my niece's birthday. The next day I watched the Euro final with some good friends, followed by delicious ramen and rooftop beers with their neighbors.

A few days later I went to the Clark Fork river in Montana for five days of car camping with a bunch of old friends. This is annual trip we've been doing for 15+ years, and is definitely more along the lines of glamping at this point. Really amazing watching bald eagles fly back and forth at the campsite diving for fish. There is always amazing food as some of the crew are hunters and like to bring up elk and venison. All of the hunters were open to taking me out when I'm ready to go, but I want to get comfortable with a firearm before trying it out.

The only downside was that wildfire season had started, and there was a pretty nasty haze that flowed in and out over the camping trip. As I was driving through Idaho, pretty close to one of the fires with really thick smoke, I couldn't help but feel like a frog sitting in water that was approaching a boil. I love the PNW, but living with wildfire smoke for two straight months is really tough. Record breaking heat waves don't really make things any easier.

Spending was a little higher as a result of the trips, but only in the form of a tank of gas, a couple of meals out, and some extra groceries.

DW is doing much better, and getting to connect with family (especially cute nieces and nephews) really helps.


Health:

I've been really consistent with the new lifting regime. Outside of my travels, I've basically been going to the gym 6 days per week. I could clean up my nutrition a bit. I ate really well on the road, but definitely not super healthy. I dropped a few pounds and gained it back, but I've noticed changes in my body. I'm not too focused on a number on the scale at this point as I'm committed to a new workout routine over the long-term and know that numbers fluctuate when building muscle. I'm regretting not taking measurements before I started up, but it is all good.


Reading:

I finished the Color of Law. A really great book that meticulously documents how institutional racism persisted in the housing and real estate industry. Almost done with the Nature Fix, which has been great. I'll do a longer writeup on that with some quotes after I finish. Checked out Permission to Feel from the library at the recommendation of @Biscuits&Gravy, but I haven't started it yet.


ETA: Summers in Western Washington are great

[2Birds1Stone]

Lovely update. Congratulations on the $400k milestone, that's a lot of cheddah!

Good on you for following your gut on the job change. It's tough to make the right call sometimes......but when you know, you know.

[Frugalchicos]

Awesome pictures as always. Congrats on achieving the 400K milestone. The snowball will get huge before you know it.
You mentioned you are at 70% of the FI goal. Perhaps, it is time to start architecting your life after work - not sure if you mentioned it before, but do you have anything specific planned out for it?

[Western Red Cedar]

@FC - Gracias amigo! Check out page 7 of my journal if you want to get an idea of some of the projects and adventures I've got planned. Our first year of FI will likely include slow travel through Central and South America, and then possibly to SE Asia. I'm pondering taking a 1-year sabbatical and then returning to work to hit full FI to test out how sustainable long-term travel feels. My job allows for up to a year of unpaid leave. If we go that route, we plan to spend a month or two in Spain.

Ultimately I am thinking of a 3-5 year nomadic phase to kick off FI, followed by setting up a base in the US (or somewhere internationally) to establish roots and work on other projects.

@2B1S - Thanks man! Connecting with friends and family, and emerging from social isolation really had a beneficial impact on me. At this point in the journey, I figured it was best just to stay the course and enjoy the ride.

The last few pages of your journal really got me thinking about Semi ERE, my own thoughts on money, and why I've been chilling at WL 5 for the last few years.

-----------

Still Swimming in the WL 5 Waters:

I had a recent reminder that I'm strongly entrenched in the WL 5 realm of the ERE WL Scale. I wandered over here as a lurker in the MMM forums. I'd occasionally check out the ERE threads, but honestly, some of them seemed pretty crazy at times. Some of them still do.

After a couple years I noticed a bit of group think over on the MMM forums, and was particularly attracted to the diversity of lifestyles and opinions I saw here. I still admire the MMM message and check out the forum periodically, but I noticed the dialogue seemed to drift farther and farther from the message espoused in the original blog posts. At one point I saw a number of posters telling someone that 500 or 600k was much too small to retire on. Meanwhile, I was digesting detailed threads here discussing SemiERE and jumping ship well before a 4% SWR.

That was the point where I realized that ERE is much closer to my tribe based on where I'm at philosophically in my approach to life and money. I say all of that because I realize that I still haven't completely let go of the traditional FIRE approach. I'm an index investor and don't have a lot of desire to go the active route. I also tend to think that if the money is good and the work isn't too cumbersome, it makes sense to stay put and stack your chips. The caveat to that last point is that if you are miserable and just powering through, it probably makes more sense to step away and pursue other options. There is always another game to play.

The contrarian in me says that this line of thinking is based on a scarcity mindset. I'm focused on optimization because I'm too blind to the options available if I step away from the easy, salaryman cash firehose.

I think one of the reasons I've felt comfortable at WL 5 is because I grew up living an alternative lifestyle, and have spent the last three decades seeing how it played out for different families. My own parents lived a very ERE lifestyle for 2-3 decades. Simple travel in international locations, a variety of interesting jobs to fund their lifestyles and save a stash. Followed by an extended homesteading experience that lasted almost two decades. They were back to the land hippies who, for a long time, thrived on the good will and support of like-minded friends and neighbors. They transitioned to a much more traditional lifestyle in their 40's, and now have a very comfortable retirement as a result of their frugal choices and hard work.

Based on my observations, capital goes a long way when living an alternative lifestyle. A large chunk of excess capital can lead to some really valuable opportunities, but many living that lifestyle don't have access to that kind of funding. In addition, things are more complicated when you are trying to support a spouse and/or kids. It is hard to barter for doctor bills, though we did it in the past (firewood for stitches IIRC?).

My parents didn't start stacking their chips until they were in their 40's, but because they did our whole family is in a better position. I look at some of their contemporaries, and they clearly are not doing as well.

Part of the initial allure of the FIRE movement was that it seemed quite conservative. I've spent a lot of time going to school, working my way up the career ladder, and developing expertise that is valuable. It is hard for me to walk away from all of that without a really strong financial foundation. I witnessed how hard DW worked in childcare, and remember the hot summers working in a a kitchen for $7.00 per hour, and it makes me want to leverage my experience and expertise now as much as possible.

I'm drawn to SemiERE and think it is brilliant in many regards, but it is hard to walk away from easy money. This quote from @Ego has also been running through my mind for a couple weeks though:

Security is like heroin. Once addicted you have to have it. Tolerance and sensitization means you always need more to get the same effect. One-more-year-syndrome. And when you suddenly get a half dose, the world flips upside down. Contemplating the fact that it might go away entirely is, well, unthinkable.

Right now you are super insecurity-tolerant. It would be a shame if you were to lose that.

[mooretrees]

It reads like you are interested in moving to L6, but that you really don't feel the urgency. I read Ego's quote too and I remember being sorta annoyed by it. Seeking security is a normal human impulse. I understand he's referencing the idea that money=security for folks with blinders on. But, like you pointed out, sometimes having the money makes a big difference.

In fact, the girl Callie Russell that was mentioned on the Howlie thread was looking to win the Alone show party to get a big chunk of change to help fund her alternative life. All that being said, it's really personal. In the last few months your DW stopped working and it was fantastic that you could just pick up the slack and not miss her paycheck. I think there just has to come a point where you're more interested in other things than making money. Or you take a bunch of time off and realize you don't have time for work. Or you increase your dissatisfaction with relying on money for solving problems and make big strides in learning whatever diy stuff is interesting to you. I think the discussion in 2B1S's journal about pursuing money is really relevant to what you're describing.

As I think about it more, it sounds like you don't have faith in forms of security other than money? Or maybe, much faith? Just a shot in the dark, and I could be wrong.

[Ego]

I read Ego's quote too and I remember being sorta annoyed by it. Seeking security is a normal human impulse. I understand he's referencing the idea that money=security for folks with blinders on. But, like you pointed out, sometimes having the money makes a big difference.

Agreed, it is a normal human impulse. And it is not just about money. That impulse prompted us to satisfy our need for a baseline amount of security in the harsh, violent world in which we evolved.

At the moment in the West we are experiencing the safest time in human history, yet more people than ever are experiencing unprecedented levels of anxiety, fear and panic. We have allowed our culture to manipulate the "normal" baseline amount of security a person needs to feel safe.

Today a third of US teens use at lease one psychotropic medication to deal with these fears. Boomers see their friends dying and decide they can never retire because they need to wrap themselves in the gold-plated Cadillac plan that allows them to conflate being well with being well-insured.

Textbook case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness

The only way to unlearn is through exposure. Kick the heroin addiction. Feel the fear.

Fight the impulse.

[mooretrees]

Not to hijack WRC's journal, but I do think there are broader issues than somewhat blaming an over focus on safety leading to widespread feelings of anxiety, depression etc. Lack of community, lack of purpose, loneliness etc are also strong reasons people feel anxious and depressed. I see your point, but think your focus is too narrow.

[Western Red Cedar]

The quote about security really rang true for me. I think it is particularly relevant to the many forum discussions about SemiERE.

As I think about it more, it sounds like you don't have faith in forms of security other than money? Or maybe, much faith? Just a shot in the dark, and I could be wrong.

@MT - I actually have a lot of faith in social relationships and social capital as a means to achieve goals or solve problems. I've also seen that dynamic break down. I suppose I've just observed in my childhood that having a financial cushion provides a lot of security. It isn't always the best way to solve a problem, but it often helps. The catch is when one has that cushion, it is often the go-to option for solving a problem. The plight of the salaryman, and he usually doesn't even know it.

I appreciate your initial response though, because it helped me realize I'm probably a little to focused on leveling up the WL chart. It isn't something I need to worry about right now in the grand scheme of things. For the time being, I'm pretty happy to squirrel away money and focus on my health and relationships. I suspect I'll have a lot of opportunities to cut expenses or solve problems once I stop working, as I'll have a lot more mental capacity and physical energy to allocate.

[mountainFrugal]

I second the idea that you will have more bandwidth for things once you are not working full time. During my 6 month sabbatical experiment I had a lot of time to figure out a thriftier options because I was time rich. Not that my spending has increased significantly since, but there is always the convenience card when you have a cushion. Being specifically aware of that while it is happening is over half the battle.

[mooretrees]

I am glad to hear about your parents and your experiences with homesteading and the like. It is good for me to be reminded that having a stash or the ability to get more money is a good hedge against adversity. I mean, I do understand the theory, but it's useful to hear some specifics.

I think your point about making sure the cushion doesn't become the go-to for solving problems is spot on. I see the seduction with 'leveling up' with the WL, but it also has to come from a place where how you're (the universal you) living is not working. And you seem mostly content with your situation, or what you choose to share at least. Glad you're over here and not at MMM's!

[2Birds1Stone]

@WRC, it looks like our post work plans are nearly identical. And 2020 for me was essentially your planned sabbatical, except I didn't have a LoA option and just had to quit then find a new job after.

Since you're still pretty darn close to barely covering the "head tax" in the USA for two people are a reasonably safe WR, I would also keep plugging along a little while longer in your shoes........we have no real excuse at this point =P

Momentum is a bitch, and the faster you're going, the stronger the pull to the middle. Sometimes I think about earning money like riding a bike, the faster you're riding, the harder it is to make a sharp turn, or stop quickly. Sometimes you have to slow down enough to change direction quickly, trusting that you won't fall off, and if you do, the world won't end.

One thing that I can vouch for.......being time rich is amazing. Life doesn't stop throwing you curveballs, but having control over your time and the freedom to do just about anything (but not everything) is something that's hard to describe until you've experienced it. So don't wait too long to take that test year off.

[Western Red Cedar]

@MF and MT - Thanks for the support and kind words.

@2B1S - In terms of the post work plans, the nomadic phase feels like a natural transition and perfect opportunity to decompress. It provides a nice "freedom to" option that gave DW a lot more incentive to get on the FI/ERE program early in the journey.

Living abroad, at least for a while, is also generally consistent with my web of goals. Opportunity to learn a language. A plethora of new adventures. Living cheaply for a couple years while the stash grows. Opportunities to do some backdoor Roth conversions while on the road. And a means to dodge the less than ideal health care situation in the states.

Travel is also a great way to meet interesting people living unconventionally, and learn from them. It has the ability to redefine our perspective on, and relationship to, security.

[Salathor]

There is always amazing food as some of the crew are hunters and like to bring up elk and venison. All of the hunters were open to taking me out when I'm ready to go, but I want to get comfortable with a firearm before trying it out.

I'd be interested to hear out this goes if you ever do it. I've been a (very low key about it) gun guy my whole life but I've never gone hunting. I feel bad even when I catch a fish That said, I'm not a vegetarian (although we eat very little meat), so I am definitely interested in eventually learning to hunt--I feel like it would help make the death-to-life (as food) relationship more real and vital for me. One of my FIRE goals for next year is to raise and butcher our own chickens (my inlaws already have a decent size bunch of laying chickens).