I'll volunteer to fill in the section on bodyweight exercises, but first I wanted to get an idea of what people are already doing so I can link to it or read up on it.
Thanks
Poll: Bodyweight or other types of training for ERE
scoobysworkshop already has a wealth of well organized information on ERE-compatible 'bodybuilding' exercises- not all are body-weight, but there is no fancy equipment or gym membership involved.
In addition to that,you could add information on kettlebell routines etc.
And also some basic routines from the martial arts world that may be practiced by the novice too- there are practitioners of Shinkendo, Jujutsu etc right here I guess.
...and I think we had a discussion on this before..there must be some info in that thread on what people are doing already..I remember surio had written something about bodyweight exercises, parkour style I think...can't remember much else.
In addition to that,you could add information on kettlebell routines etc.
And also some basic routines from the martial arts world that may be practiced by the novice too- there are practitioners of Shinkendo, Jujutsu etc right here I guess.
...and I think we had a discussion on this before..there must be some info in that thread on what people are doing already..I remember surio had written something about bodyweight exercises, parkour style I think...can't remember much else.
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jacob
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The "official" [ERE] position would be to find something productive to do that involves muscle power. Biking for transportation is a good one. Cutting firewood is also good. I can personally vouch for jointing with a handplane.
A lot of what we call exercise is just unproductive versions of the same: sitting on an exercise bike, hitting a tractor tire with a sledge hammer, doing push ups.
We can call the first paragraph category #1 and the second category #2.
#2 is then an unproductive supplement to a sedentary job. It like humans need manual labor but since there's not enough manual labor, we invent work that does nothing, such as walking on a treadmill or pulling on cables to lift the same weight up and down.
After I started doing more #1, I realized that the need for #2 to keep in shape (unless one actually enjoys lifting up a weight and putting it down again repeatedly) is due to poor [lifestyle] design. If #1 is taken as a given, one also develops of preference for avoiding #2. I'd rather rest and save my energy for more productive work. More planing, less push ups.
I'd even consider sports as part of #1.
To further hammer on the point, I think of general conditioning as a last resort when other things aren't available. This might very well be the case. It has certainly been the case for me for much of my life.
A lot of what we call exercise is just unproductive versions of the same: sitting on an exercise bike, hitting a tractor tire with a sledge hammer, doing push ups.
We can call the first paragraph category #1 and the second category #2.
#2 is then an unproductive supplement to a sedentary job. It like humans need manual labor but since there's not enough manual labor, we invent work that does nothing, such as walking on a treadmill or pulling on cables to lift the same weight up and down.
After I started doing more #1, I realized that the need for #2 to keep in shape (unless one actually enjoys lifting up a weight and putting it down again repeatedly) is due to poor [lifestyle] design. If #1 is taken as a given, one also develops of preference for avoiding #2. I'd rather rest and save my energy for more productive work. More planing, less push ups.
I'd even consider sports as part of #1.
To further hammer on the point, I think of general conditioning as a last resort when other things aren't available. This might very well be the case. It has certainly been the case for me for much of my life.
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jennypenny
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@Jacob-you're starting to sound like Paul Wheaton. I hope you're still looking for property. You'll be much happier when you have a place to dig in.
Love Neg. We play swear bingo with our older, cranky relatives. Looking forward to another round on Thanksgiving
@bigato-my daughter just started brazilian jiu jitsu and she loves it. (she does MMA and studies boxing and kickboxing also)
Love Neg. We play swear bingo with our older, cranky relatives. Looking forward to another round on Thanksgiving
@bigato-my daughter just started brazilian jiu jitsu and she loves it. (she does MMA and studies boxing and kickboxing also)
I don't get a lot of exercise, but the following regime is what I consider the bare minimum of daily exercise to keep my back healthy and be able to bend down and reach things on the floor:
Every morning after rising:
12 squats
12 sit ups
back arches (laying on back with feet, hands and head on floor, raise body, count to 12)
12 hindu pushups if you can
Every morning after rising:
12 squats
12 sit ups
back arches (laying on back with feet, hands and head on floor, raise body, count to 12)
12 hindu pushups if you can
I disagree with your #2 Jacob. Exercise is unproductive work, in terms of producing a good, but it is more productive for fitness than just doing manual labor.
You will never be able to measure your manual labor well enough to continually stress your body over time. Without this measurement it would be exceedingly difficult to attain peak performance.
Of course, you will also plateau when it comes to stressing your body. You can decrease the interval between each piece of wood you cut, but that only increases cardio not strength.
If you plan on being competitive at a sport or you just want to be really in shape it's going to be difficult to attain through just manual labor.
Walk by a construction sight some time. I grew up around those guys and farmers, and neither are very impressive physically. Those guys aren't in much better shape (a little, yes) than the general population.
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that manual labor can't get you in some kind of shape. Just that it won't get you in peak condition.
An hour on the mat like Bigato talks about is better exercise than 8 hours of building a house.
You will never be able to measure your manual labor well enough to continually stress your body over time. Without this measurement it would be exceedingly difficult to attain peak performance.
Of course, you will also plateau when it comes to stressing your body. You can decrease the interval between each piece of wood you cut, but that only increases cardio not strength.
If you plan on being competitive at a sport or you just want to be really in shape it's going to be difficult to attain through just manual labor.
Walk by a construction sight some time. I grew up around those guys and farmers, and neither are very impressive physically. Those guys aren't in much better shape (a little, yes) than the general population.
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that manual labor can't get you in some kind of shape. Just that it won't get you in peak condition.
An hour on the mat like Bigato talks about is better exercise than 8 hours of building a house.
I wouldn't say its better or worse (hour on mat vs. building house) -- its just different.
I don't think I would agree with the construction worker analogy unless you controlled it for what they were eating. It's been my experience, particularly as I have gotten older, that the diet component has become more important that the amount of physical work as far as body composition is concerned.
I would agree that repetitive, stressful activities that go on for long periods of time are probably more harmful than helpful for most people, especially when you are over about 40.
And I think there is a difference between training for a sport and just exercising for health reasons. They can overlap, but are not the same. This is why former professional athletes often have serious health problems -- they have worn out or damaged part of their bodies.
Mark Sisson (a former professional runner), is a good case-study on this. I like where he comes out -- with a nice pyramid. Note, this is just for health and longetivity -- if you have other physical goals, you would need to do other things:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sisson+e ... 29,r:8,s:0
I don't think I would agree with the construction worker analogy unless you controlled it for what they were eating. It's been my experience, particularly as I have gotten older, that the diet component has become more important that the amount of physical work as far as body composition is concerned.
I would agree that repetitive, stressful activities that go on for long periods of time are probably more harmful than helpful for most people, especially when you are over about 40.
And I think there is a difference between training for a sport and just exercising for health reasons. They can overlap, but are not the same. This is why former professional athletes often have serious health problems -- they have worn out or damaged part of their bodies.
Mark Sisson (a former professional runner), is a good case-study on this. I like where he comes out -- with a nice pyramid. Note, this is just for health and longetivity -- if you have other physical goals, you would need to do other things:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=sisson+e ... 29,r:8,s:0
It is better. 1 hour of mat time would get you in better shape than multiple hours of construction work and probably be easier on your body. How is that not better?
Plus, as you noted long-term reptitive movements can be detrimental, which is why time spent is also a factor. Jerome Bettis (NFL RB) doesn't have bad knees because of squats or running. He has bad knees because 260lb human missiles pummeled him for years. While, my dad and everyone else I know who was in construction has something wrong with them from the hours of repetitive motion.
I do agree that most construction workers diets are poor. However, if I ate what they ate when I was working out for football I would have been fine. I wouldn't have gained muscle as fast or got as much out of the workouts, but the workouts would have taken care of the excess in substantially less time.
I just don't see gardening, construction, etc. done a few hours a day on ERE as keeping a person fit. Fitter than someone who sits in an office or on a couch all day? Yes, but not fit.
@beav80
Burpies are great body weight exercises.
The link below has a routine I have done in my apartment before. It's fairly tough, but mostly it is cardio and not strength building.
http://fitnessblackbook.com/workout-rou ... n-my-butt/
Plus, as you noted long-term reptitive movements can be detrimental, which is why time spent is also a factor. Jerome Bettis (NFL RB) doesn't have bad knees because of squats or running. He has bad knees because 260lb human missiles pummeled him for years. While, my dad and everyone else I know who was in construction has something wrong with them from the hours of repetitive motion.
I do agree that most construction workers diets are poor. However, if I ate what they ate when I was working out for football I would have been fine. I wouldn't have gained muscle as fast or got as much out of the workouts, but the workouts would have taken care of the excess in substantially less time.
I just don't see gardening, construction, etc. done a few hours a day on ERE as keeping a person fit. Fitter than someone who sits in an office or on a couch all day? Yes, but not fit.
@beav80
Burpies are great body weight exercises.
The link below has a routine I have done in my apartment before. It's fairly tough, but mostly it is cardio and not strength building.
http://fitnessblackbook.com/workout-rou ... n-my-butt/
Jacob, a few years ago I would have agreed with you. I have a very active lifestyle sawing (with a bowsaw) and chopping wood, hauling water, and walking several miles every day. It made me stronger than your average person but only slightly. 40 minutes a week of squats, push ups, and pull ups on the simple fit plan means that I'm always making strength gains.
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jacob
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Counter example,
Many years ago, I lived on the 5th floor, no elevator. We had bought a 3 person couch. When the delivery team arrived, they practically ran the couch up the stairs. At each turn they're take a break, aim it, and the propel it upstairs. When they reached the front door, it wouldn't go in, so one of the guys grabbed the door and just lifted it off its hinges like it was nothing. When I had to put it back again ... damn, that thing was heavy. I barely got it on again (this while having a weight bench in the bedroom and working out on that). The moving guy wasn't big, except his forearms.
It obviously depends on what kind of labor one engages in (stacking 50 pound bags of seed vs walking the dog) and what kind of workouts (crossfit vs water aerobics). It's easier to scale a workout because it's very much a controlled environment. Just add another 5 pounds to the bar.
On the other hand, there's also "gym strength" and "real strength". Functional fitness has made some inroads into building more applicable strength compared to things like squats and bench pressing, movements that are very hard to replicate in real life. However, it's still not the same.
On the gripping hand, does it really make sense to spend energy building up a very muscular body that's never going to be used to its potential. As Dragline mentioned, it does wear on you. Athletes have great cardiovascular systems, but they often seem to have minor and ongoing problems with joints and tendons.
But I digress ... they original point was that instead of using an electric implement (lawnmower) eliminate personal effort in doing some work and then going to the gym to use a manual implement insert effort and to do some nonwork, it is smarter to choose to insert personal effort into one's work.
You could always supplement this with nonwork-effort (work-outs) if you feel you don't work enough
[This from someone who has spent the past couple of weeks planing 96 surfaces smooth and who has seriously considered electrifying this task but ultimately decided against it.]
Many years ago, I lived on the 5th floor, no elevator. We had bought a 3 person couch. When the delivery team arrived, they practically ran the couch up the stairs. At each turn they're take a break, aim it, and the propel it upstairs. When they reached the front door, it wouldn't go in, so one of the guys grabbed the door and just lifted it off its hinges like it was nothing. When I had to put it back again ... damn, that thing was heavy. I barely got it on again (this while having a weight bench in the bedroom and working out on that). The moving guy wasn't big, except his forearms.
It obviously depends on what kind of labor one engages in (stacking 50 pound bags of seed vs walking the dog) and what kind of workouts (crossfit vs water aerobics). It's easier to scale a workout because it's very much a controlled environment. Just add another 5 pounds to the bar.
On the other hand, there's also "gym strength" and "real strength". Functional fitness has made some inroads into building more applicable strength compared to things like squats and bench pressing, movements that are very hard to replicate in real life. However, it's still not the same.
On the gripping hand, does it really make sense to spend energy building up a very muscular body that's never going to be used to its potential. As Dragline mentioned, it does wear on you. Athletes have great cardiovascular systems, but they often seem to have minor and ongoing problems with joints and tendons.
But I digress ... they original point was that instead of using an electric implement (lawnmower) eliminate personal effort in doing some work and then going to the gym to use a manual implement insert effort and to do some nonwork, it is smarter to choose to insert personal effort into one's work.
You could always supplement this with nonwork-effort (work-outs) if you feel you don't work enough
[This from someone who has spent the past couple of weeks planing 96 surfaces smooth and who has seriously considered electrifying this task but ultimately decided against it.]
I think we are mostly agreeing - certainly excessive cardio wears on the immune system and squatting 600lbs is probably not good for you. I cut all my wood with a bow saw instead of getting a chainsaw for the same reasons.
But here's a counter counter example - winter before last I was what I would have called at the time very functionally fit. Every few days I would carry four 5 gallon buckets of water the mile home from my winter water hole and had gone from needing a lot of breaks to none. I had cut, hauled, and chopped three cords of wood. But when summer came and it was time to get the boat back in the water I wasn't strong enough to correctly tilt/position the 120lb motor to reattach it to the boat while also leaning over the back of the boat. I had to build a system of rollers(birch poles) and pull the boat up through the mud and stand behind it in mud up to my knees to get it done. Last winter I did push ups and pull ups, and because those two exercises strengthen most of the muscles in my whole upper body and not just those needed for sawing/chopping/hauling, I had no problem getting the boat motor on this spring.
But here's a counter counter example - winter before last I was what I would have called at the time very functionally fit. Every few days I would carry four 5 gallon buckets of water the mile home from my winter water hole and had gone from needing a lot of breaks to none. I had cut, hauled, and chopped three cords of wood. But when summer came and it was time to get the boat back in the water I wasn't strong enough to correctly tilt/position the 120lb motor to reattach it to the boat while also leaning over the back of the boat. I had to build a system of rollers(birch poles) and pull the boat up through the mud and stand behind it in mud up to my knees to get it done. Last winter I did push ups and pull ups, and because those two exercises strengthen most of the muscles in my whole upper body and not just those needed for sawing/chopping/hauling, I had no problem getting the boat motor on this spring.
Body weight.
These have scaled well for my personal needs.
http://hundredpushups.com/
http://www.twohundredsitups.com/
http://www.onefiftydips.com
http://www.twohundredsquats.com
http://www.twohundredsitups.com
http://www.twentyfivepullups.com/
Running 4 miles 3 days per week.
Biking 3 days per week 32 miles each day (minimum).
I will be training w/ one of these soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Bag Will be like running around w/ a "mini-me" when I workout! LOL!
These have scaled well for my personal needs.
http://hundredpushups.com/
http://www.twohundredsitups.com/
http://www.onefiftydips.com
http://www.twohundredsquats.com
http://www.twohundredsitups.com
http://www.twentyfivepullups.com/
Running 4 miles 3 days per week.
Biking 3 days per week 32 miles each day (minimum).
I will be training w/ one of these soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_Bag Will be like running around w/ a "mini-me" when I workout! LOL!
As someone who once in his life could squat 600 and bench over 400, it was very functional (Obviously, I did more than just those 2 lifts. Though, no sledge hammering a large tire, etc.). I'm not sure how the non-functionality of compound exercises became the common belief (especially squats)?
I don't disagree that work can be a workout. I just don't agree that workout work is necessarily more efficient or as/more effective than specific exercises.
I don't disagree that work can be a workout. I just don't agree that workout work is necessarily more efficient or as/more effective than specific exercises.
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BeyondtheWrap
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I'm currently doing shovelgloving, which is pretty ERE-friendly. The idea is to use a sledgehammer to mimic movements that are common in manual labor (such as shoveling, churning butter, and chopping wood) for 14 minutes a day. So while it does fall into Jacob's category #2, it is still somewhat functional. Also, it is cheap, requiring only a sledgehammer, which many of us already have.
