Zankas poker-journal

Where are you and where are you going?
singvestor
Posts: 154
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:48 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by singvestor »

If you would put your poker skills to some other use - programming, or any other job that needs to think systematically and stay focused for long times, could you maybe earn a lot more with less work and less risk?

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Thanks for you replies!

Great question @Singvestor.

I have been thinking a lot about this question today actually. First of all, poker is not that risky (if you know what you are doing) compared to any other job more or less. On top of that I also have a job that pays my bills, so I dont need to earn that much from poker to get by.

Other than that, I honestly have no idea about how for example programming works, but it seems to me not worth my time to learn anything new at this point. Seems to me that I either need to have a boss (not going to work out, haha) or start my own company. And to start earning the kind of money I can earn with poker I guess I would need to spend a couple of years before I get ahead of my current earning capacity.

I like playing poker, and it is completely tax-free in a country with very high taxes on normal jobs so if I am making 4k/month from poker I earn around as much as my friend who works as a doctor.

On top of that there are a few incredible perks:
I can be wherever I want.
I can work whenever I want.
I can work as much or as little as I want.
I have good controll over my hourly since it translates directly to how much work I put in (there is a ceiling somewhere, maybe around 70-100$/h) .
I can choose who I spend time with (ie no coworkers).

With that said I do not want to keep playing poker in this way forever. I am just giving myself a last shot at it and maybe I get up to making 50$/h+ and then I will be set for retirement in no time, or maybe I can just use it as a steppingstone for new things in a year or so.

Thanks again for the q, it got me thinking :)

/Z

2Birds1Stone
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:20 am
Location: Earth

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

Zanka wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:23 am

I like playing poker, and it is completely tax-free in a country with very high taxes on normal jobs so if I am making 4k/month from poker I earn around as much as my friend who works as a doctor.
But your doctor friend is consistently making money, you've averaged ~$700/month since March. Just food for thought.

ertyu
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by ertyu »

But Zanka has said this isn’t their only job. What’s wrong with having a somewhat risky hobby one enjoys that also makes one money? How is this different from, say, being an active investor in the stock market, or trading options around your positions, or what have you? You enjoy it, you are motivated to acquire skill, and if you get skilled in the right components, this reduces or mitigates the risk of catastrophic loss. It is very strange to me that everyone is suddenly on Z’s case about “getting a real job.” Who are we to decide what level of risk and predictability of earnings works for him? I guess fundamentally none of this is any of my business but it’s just weird

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Yeah I was not being really clear on all the numbers I feel.
What I was trying to get across was that now that I have grown my poker-business from 15 to 25$/h in a year, while still seeing a ton of potential to improve it further, it does not make much sense to spend a lot of time learning something else. 25$/h tax free is almost 40$/h pre tax where I live.

With regards to my statement about my friend I should have said that if I were to play poker full time i would probably make 4k/month after 2-3months of getting into it and since I have literaly zero interest in programming and anything like that it just dont make sense for me.
And on top of that I become really unhappy with having people telling me what I can and cannot do on a daily basis, so trading the freedom I get from poker is not very appealing tbh.

I like the questions since they get me to reflect over what I want and do not want so thanx for it. I also understand that people find it weird and risky to play poker but I like the analogy with the stock market since it kinda reflects a lot of what poker is about. If you do it wrong it is risky, and if you do it right it is, well, much much less risky. But that is the same for anything, spending time learning something new is also risky, having a normal job where you do not have control over if you get to keep the job or not is also risky.
As it stands, I am better covered than most people since I have;
a) Poker
b) Normal job
c) Unemployment insurance.

And any of those can potentialy cover my basic needs.


/ Z

And thanx for your post @ertyu :)

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

When I started this journal A year ago or so, my great days were around 300$, this month Ive had one 450$ day and today I made 550$ in just two hours.
It feels so good to be playing almost every day and to be able to outplay more and more of my opponents.

I have also begun the process of moving up another level to the 100$ buy in. If I can hold my own there I would probably be able to bump my hourly to 35-40$/h (when those games are running).

Month so far is around 1.7k and I hope to break the previous journal record wich is sitting at 2k.

AxelHeyst
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:55 pm
Location: The Mountains, USA

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by AxelHeyst »

It just occurred to me that poker is perhaps one of the most honest ways to earn an income in today's society. Show up, log on, do absolutely nothing "productive" for the world (but also nothing destructive!), get paid very much based on your skill and focus level, not just for showing up and keeping a seat warm. So many jobs, we're just glorified high-paid seat-warmers. I'm not knocking poker at all, to be clear! Quite the opposite. Cool journal Zanka, thanks for the updates.

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Haha I like your perspective @AxelHeyst! Poker is indeed honest in many ways, still there are some moral quanderies about addiction and things like that which probably falls on the destructive side. But at least it does not contribute to consuming the planet into a wastedump or slaughtering animals or anything like that :P

I personaly see it a lot like sports in general, many can play it, many can watch it, few can live on it. And there are a ton of dedication and sacrifices that need to be done to reach the top few % that makes a profit.
The analogy is probably to say that a professional pokerplayer is a mix of a professional (mental) athlete and a bartender :)

Thanks for chiming in!

Forskaren
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:04 pm

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Forskaren »

What do think about the balance between playing many tables at once to maximize hands played vs playing fewer tables better?

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Yeah good question. I play between 3-6 tables at once usually. I belive that 4 tables is the sweet spot if I had to pick one number indefinately. But the way I do it is usually; study a lot of new things for a few days -> play fewer tables (like 3) to integrate -> add one table at a time untill I play 5 tables -> get volume in buy playing a ton of hands during 1-3 weeks -> repeat.

I only play more than 5 tables when i am a) in the zone AND b) there is a ton of value across many tables.

Also when I am moving up in stakes I want to play fewer tables but that is not that big of a deal for me anymore. I usually play 2-3 tables of my normal stake and then add 1 table of the new stake. And when I am up a little I replace 1 table of the lower stake and so on. The goal for me in regards of moving up in stakes is to be able to play the best tables at a wide range of stakes from 50$ buy in up to at least 200$.

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

I have changed lately. For a couple of years I have been dependent on my family on a regular basis to keep my life together. It has been financial support but also practical support like having my dog while I work. Being dependent on my family, or more specificaly my parents, have been a pretty heavy price for me to pay, still worth it due to saving my kids from a ton of chaos, but still a heavy price. I have had to keep my head down and avoiding any conflict that could result in them drawing back their support and for me this is a very very difficult thing to do since they are usually completely off in their analysis in realtionships imo. For example they managed to make my brother basically end their relationship when they told him they couldnt come to his wedding bc of some bs thing, and after that they are constantly badmouthing him infront of the rest of the family.

I grew up in a very dysfunctional family where my parents basically got me and my siblings (we are five) to belive that we were a perfect family that always supported one another. In reality we only got support if we stayed in line and did what was considered good. We have all grown up to have a ton of difficulties with relationships and trusting other people, some of us have succumbed to mental illnesses (which is very clear to me is caused by childhood trauma, not genetics) and all of us are at a very low level of emotional development.
I have worked so hard my entire adult life to figure out what is going on and understanding why I have so much pain inside of me, it has been so hard at times, I have used drugs, alkohol, sex and obv gambling, to detach from my emotions. At 33yo I still have a hard time understanding what is going on inside of me, but now I know that I dont know, and I am not afraid to say it out loud to people I know.

There are times when someone say something trivial but my physical body just goes into full on fear mode and shoots out stresshormones that at times makes me almost fall down if I am standing.

The last couple of months I have started to deal with this on a very concrete level. I have been talking a lot more about my childhood and I have made myself completely independent of my parents. A couple of days ago I took a big step for me and sent them a text that I wanted to sit down and talk to them about how they have handled our relationship. I got the response that they had been very busy and they are exhausted (grandma have had corona and almost died) so they wanted to talk when they felt better. That made me cut my last thing I was dependent on them for, and got someone else to have my dog when I am at work. Then I just sent a text that they can take their time. From now on I am not going to talk to them anymore untill they are willing to sit down. I am still not sure if i should have asked them to go f*** themselves but it feels ok to give them at least some time to go into the conversation more rested. I doubt they ever will talk to me tho.

I just wanted to share and maybe it got a little long..

/ Z

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Also poker keeps going forward, sitting at 2.2k with 5 days remaining, lets go for 3k right? ;)

classical_Liberal
Posts: 2046
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:05 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by classical_Liberal »

This sounds like a really big development for you, congrats!

My only advice is to make sure you are very centered when you do sit down with them. The only thing you'll regret is if you lose your s**t over the pain this relationship has caused. Maybe even mentally go through their potential reactions beforehand. Make sure you're the emotional adult in the conversation and don't let them trigger you. Then, no matter the outcome, you can walk away feeling good about yourself.

Good luck!

2Birds1Stone
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Location: Earth

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

As someone who has a ton of shit to unpack re: family relationships, I REALLY appreciated your last post.

Godspeed!

ertyu
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by ertyu »

From my experience with sitting dysfunctional parents down to talk, expect them to react badly. If they were the sort of people who had it in themselves to actually listen to someone, validate them, take what they're saying seriously, apologize, and change, you'd have grown up in a very different family and chances are you wouldn't need to be having a conversation like this in the first place. Especially the part where you were taught that your family was oh-so-supportive when it's anything but is making me think they will go the route of trying to invalidate you and gaslight you so they wouldn't have to do anything to change. I would be very happy for you if things turn out better, but I very much doubt they would. It might be that the best you'd be able to do is hold fast to your boundaries and in the face of constant invalidation, passive aggressiveness and/or conflict. I have shit parents, and no, I don't know how to fix it either.

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

@C_L Thank you. Yeah I am definately going into a conversation with them with all the calmness and stability I can upbring. I have had 30+ years of practice when it comes to not letting my emotions take overhand so I hope Ill be able to keep it together. Thanks again.

@2b1s Thank you. It is probably the first time in my life that I am "ready" to bring this out into the open. For most of the time I have believed that it is me that is the "bad" one etc. Now I am able to recognize negative emotions and lead them to their source pretty often, even if it takes a day or two when it is the heaviest things.

@ertyu Thank you! Yeah I am going into the conversation (if it happens) from the perspective that -we dont have a relationship. and it is up to them to be open to work with me to heal it-, and if they are not willing to do this then Im done with it. I am so tired of not confronting their bs and I am finaly understanding that I am being violent against my own inner self when I let this go on. They have always made me feel like I am weak and instilled so much fear in me that I could not see how strong I am, kinda tragic and comical att the same time actually. It is so obvious that they are the scared and weak ones.

I am also not going into this with blaming them and making them look bad, I am going to give them a chance to own up to it and for them to do the necessary changes for our relaionship moving forward. And again, if they do not want to do that, Im done.
Feels very very good to have reached this point.

/Z

ertyu
Posts: 1435
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:31 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by ertyu »

Done is very much where I find myself, too. Good luck

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Had a 4 hour talk with my younger brother about our family situation. It is very nice to have someone to talk to about this. I have been alone in in this for a long time since the family dynamics is kinda sect-like. Either you are in on everything or youre out. So when I first tried to resolve things 10+ years ago I was the weird one and no one could relate to my point of view. No one hade the ability to see what I saw and this made me question myself more and more until I for real thought I was crazy.
So now that he is more or less on the same page as me (even tho he is a lot angrier at the moment) it makes me so much stronger. Just to know that one more person can see what I see is huge. :)

I am opening up my feelings at a rapid rate, am crying a lot and have started to embrace just letting go of things. Have been journaling a little, which helps a lot, and just overall just trying to stand With my emotions and let them run trough me instead of running away from them. At times if feels like my body will explode but most times I can just breath trough it and let everything out. It is freaking heavy work tho, and I am very proud of myself for doing this.

Poker is moving along nice, I am crushing and I am close to reaching my (very lofty) goals for the month. I only need to put in a few hours tomorrow and Ill be fine. Ull get an update on thursday probably and I will try to post some images and explain some basic concepts here also, it would be kinda fun to show you.


/Z

Zanka
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:33 am

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Zanka »

Ok lets go.
What a month, I listed everything I have done this month and I must say I am impressed with myself, haha. So much deep work with traumas and whatnot, and at the same time I did a ton of practical stuff like getting rid of a bunch of excess, sold my first item on my local "craigslist", rebuilt some shelves in my appartment and lost of other stuff. On top of that I worked 115h or so and played around 90h of poker. All in all a great month that has made a ton of changes in my life.
How I feel? I am all over the place emotionally and quite tired, but I know I am on the right path and will lessen the workload for October.

I played 45k hands this month, this was my goal, and I did not believe I would make it tbh. But with 2h left of the month I reached it lol.
I won: 2.4k and that my firends is a new journal record.
My next best month was 2k from this march, and that month I ran very very good and my expected win probably were around 1k. If I were to guess I would say that my results this month is more in line with my expected winrate, maybe I should have won like 2k, but it is very hard to say. But what is clear to me is that I am making huge progress and I hope I can keep moving forward.

March: +2k
April: +250
May: +450
June: +870
July: 0
August: +150
September: 2.4k

As for October my goals are:
Play 30k hands or more.
Play at least 15% of my hands on the 100$ buyin games.
Relax more
Talk to parents
Make out with someone
Start to look at cameras so I can film my nature adventures
Keep writing in my diary
Keep crying often
Do something outside of my comfortzone

I will go for All of the goals, which me luck.

/Z

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Alice_AU
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Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Zankas poker-journal

Post by Alice_AU »

Congratulations on your record!
Good luck... :-)

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