I know it sounds crazy but my girlfriend brought it up because of the nice climate. I did some research and on the big island there are small places for sale, especially unpermitted, off-grid cottages for under $100k. example:
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/reo/2628427925.html
Because of the nice climate there would be no heating or cooling costs. A garden would also grow very well and year round, I assume. They use rainwater catchment basins for water.
This 5 acre property looks nice and it's $90k:
http://www.hawaiilife.com/mls/247138/
I know everything costs more in HI but ERE's don't buy a lot. Is there something I'm missing, like a pending volcano eruption, extreme isolation, heavy taxation or something else I haven't though of? Any Hawaiian readers with insight?
ERE paradise in hawaii?
Former resident, a couple of trips "back home" ( to me ) recently ....
Yes everything does cost more .. IIRC Hawaii has something like 5-6 container ships a week to bring in stuff from milk, to cigarettes etc.
Being on the Big Island, or Hawaii itself, you can add Vog to your vocabulary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vog
It affects all islands, but is manageable. Kiluaea is certainly a concern, but a trade off. All the active area is government managed. I'm not sure about trade winds .. most of my time was on Oahu.
Oh yes, if your into gardening your in for a treat.
Agreed on climate control costs, you wont have any. The place I stayed in had no AC or heat.. and I didnt care.
Sales tax IIRC is 4%, not horrible, given your ER. Flooding is a low concern, I would be curious about HOA fees.
You do however, have to qualify, from the listing :
Buyer must be qualified via Dept. of Agriculture as a "Bonefide Farmer" and be able to show available resources as well as complete a Dept. of Agriculture application.
So, are you going to do coffee, nuts, pineapple or ... all ? Roadside vendor for the tourist visiting Kilauea ?
Hmm...
Yes everything does cost more .. IIRC Hawaii has something like 5-6 container ships a week to bring in stuff from milk, to cigarettes etc.
Being on the Big Island, or Hawaii itself, you can add Vog to your vocabulary:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vog
It affects all islands, but is manageable. Kiluaea is certainly a concern, but a trade off. All the active area is government managed. I'm not sure about trade winds .. most of my time was on Oahu.
Oh yes, if your into gardening your in for a treat.
Agreed on climate control costs, you wont have any. The place I stayed in had no AC or heat.. and I didnt care.
Sales tax IIRC is 4%, not horrible, given your ER. Flooding is a low concern, I would be curious about HOA fees.
You do however, have to qualify, from the listing :
Buyer must be qualified via Dept. of Agriculture as a "Bonefide Farmer" and be able to show available resources as well as complete a Dept. of Agriculture application.
So, are you going to do coffee, nuts, pineapple or ... all ? Roadside vendor for the tourist visiting Kilauea ?
Hmm...
I only visited the Islands once (Manoa Valley near Honolulu), and I was blown away that there were no heating or cooling systems in the houses.
If you're hot, open the windows.
If you're cold, close them.
And it rained for about 10 minutes the same time every afternoon, followed by sun and a gorgeous rainbow.
If you're hot, open the windows.
If you're cold, close them.
And it rained for about 10 minutes the same time every afternoon, followed by sun and a gorgeous rainbow.
I live on Oahu but am not too familiar with living on the Big Island. I do know a lot of the land is really hard volcanic land that's hard to dig up, so watch out for that. VOG can be quite severe and can be a nightmare for people with respiratory issues. VOG does contain some toxic metals such as mercury and arsenic. Hilo side gets a ton of rain, around 4-5 times more rain annually than Seattle. The Kona side is very dry and Ka'u is a desert. Depending of who you ask, there are between 10 and 13 climate zones on the Big Island, which makes it one the most climatically diverse areas in the world.
Keep in mind that the Big Island is mostly rural with little economic activity, so you will have to find ways to earn a living besides working locally. Renting out rooms could be really tough in certain areas and some of your neighbors could be quite "country". Residents in the more remote areas are likely to own guns and are likely not afraid to use it if they feel they are infringed upon.
I'm not sure about utils, but prop taxes in Hawaii are among the lowest in the nation. It's between $5 and $9 per $1000 value depending on the type of property. http://www.coastalhawaii.com/PDF%20File ... 1-2012.pdf
Keep in mind that the Big Island is mostly rural with little economic activity, so you will have to find ways to earn a living besides working locally. Renting out rooms could be really tough in certain areas and some of your neighbors could be quite "country". Residents in the more remote areas are likely to own guns and are likely not afraid to use it if they feel they are infringed upon.
I'm not sure about utils, but prop taxes in Hawaii are among the lowest in the nation. It's between $5 and $9 per $1000 value depending on the type of property. http://www.coastalhawaii.com/PDF%20File ... 1-2012.pdf
Hi AlexK
My husband and I love Hawaii and have done some research on doing ERE there. We have not been to the Big Island, but based on our research, it seems to be the most feasible island to do ERE, because 1) land / real estate is much more affordable than the other islands, and 2) you have more freedom to do what you want on your own land there. For example, in the Puna district on the Big Island, people buy land cheaply, then build off grid cabins, live in tents, live in RVs, etc. You can't get away with that kind of thing on the other islands, even though it's your land.
But it's cheaper than the other islands for a reason, and we are not going to ERE there because:
- It seems too isolated - I like rural, I like nature, I like undeveloped, but I would also want to be walking / biking distance to a small town center or cluster of businesses where you can interact with other people, buy some groceries, get a coffee, maybe visit the library if you're lucky...you know, feel a little bit like you're part of a community. But there are not many businesses in Puna, and it seems like each person is doing his own thing on his own land and is not interacting with other people too much.
- I've read that there is an element of drugs, criminals, and squatters in Puna.
- There aren't as many beaches on the Big Island, and they're mostly on the west shore, whereas Puna is on the east shore.
- Road conditions are apparently poor. You can imagine what happens when you mix rain with dirt / mudpacked roads. A vehicle with 4 wheel drive might be a necessity, not sure. Overall infrastructure is not good.
- Vog.
- Active volcanoes.
Sorry to be a downer :/ ...hope that helps a little.
Rachel
My husband and I love Hawaii and have done some research on doing ERE there. We have not been to the Big Island, but based on our research, it seems to be the most feasible island to do ERE, because 1) land / real estate is much more affordable than the other islands, and 2) you have more freedom to do what you want on your own land there. For example, in the Puna district on the Big Island, people buy land cheaply, then build off grid cabins, live in tents, live in RVs, etc. You can't get away with that kind of thing on the other islands, even though it's your land.
But it's cheaper than the other islands for a reason, and we are not going to ERE there because:
- It seems too isolated - I like rural, I like nature, I like undeveloped, but I would also want to be walking / biking distance to a small town center or cluster of businesses where you can interact with other people, buy some groceries, get a coffee, maybe visit the library if you're lucky...you know, feel a little bit like you're part of a community. But there are not many businesses in Puna, and it seems like each person is doing his own thing on his own land and is not interacting with other people too much.
- I've read that there is an element of drugs, criminals, and squatters in Puna.
- There aren't as many beaches on the Big Island, and they're mostly on the west shore, whereas Puna is on the east shore.
- Road conditions are apparently poor. You can imagine what happens when you mix rain with dirt / mudpacked roads. A vehicle with 4 wheel drive might be a necessity, not sure. Overall infrastructure is not good.
- Vog.
- Active volcanoes.
Sorry to be a downer :/ ...hope that helps a little.
Rachel
I was always under the impression that much of Hawaii land is owned in some form of trust and while you might pay $90K for a house you have a lease payment to someone else for the land...the usual I've heard is you get a 99 year lease.
Depending on how long the current land lease has left till it expires (and the rates raised) affects the current value of the buildings and all sitting on it.
If the lease expires in 2 years and the leaseholder plans a 500% increase in the lease then the value of the house falls off the cliff.
The most equivalent I can think of is Jacobs situation....he owns his "house" (the RV) but must pay rent (lease) the land it sits on..though in his case if he doesn't like the new land lease payment all he has to do is drive away so the value of his purchase (the RV) is not actually affected by the cost of leasing his parking space....can't do that with a site built home.
Depending on how long the current land lease has left till it expires (and the rates raised) affects the current value of the buildings and all sitting on it.
If the lease expires in 2 years and the leaseholder plans a 500% increase in the lease then the value of the house falls off the cliff.
The most equivalent I can think of is Jacobs situation....he owns his "house" (the RV) but must pay rent (lease) the land it sits on..though in his case if he doesn't like the new land lease payment all he has to do is drive away so the value of his purchase (the RV) is not actually affected by the cost of leasing his parking space....can't do that with a site built home.
I spent a few months living on the Big Island. It's a great place.
The good - it's cheap compared to the rest of Hawaii. Hilo is a nice town, very welcoming, a little bit run down, but not in a bad way. The Big Island is *not* touristy - it's almost the complete opposite of touristy places like Honolulu/Waikiki. The fruit there is ridiculously cheap - I think the going rate was 5 papayas/1 dollar; passionfruit, mango, coconuts, lychee are all very cheap. There's lots of hiking, beaches, surfing, diving, camping, festivals, and other things to do. You can get by without a car, and there are rental places if you do occasionally need one.
The bad - it's still expensive to fly out, and housing is not cheap. General goods are more expensive than on the mainland. It's still a relatively small island so if you get bored easily it won't work out. There are places where people from the mainland are advised not to go (they're dangerous), because for historical reasons there's a distinct separatist/nationalist streak in Hawaii.
I would love to go back to live there for a few years. I don't know if I'd want to live there permanently. But I do miss it.
The good - it's cheap compared to the rest of Hawaii. Hilo is a nice town, very welcoming, a little bit run down, but not in a bad way. The Big Island is *not* touristy - it's almost the complete opposite of touristy places like Honolulu/Waikiki. The fruit there is ridiculously cheap - I think the going rate was 5 papayas/1 dollar; passionfruit, mango, coconuts, lychee are all very cheap. There's lots of hiking, beaches, surfing, diving, camping, festivals, and other things to do. You can get by without a car, and there are rental places if you do occasionally need one.
The bad - it's still expensive to fly out, and housing is not cheap. General goods are more expensive than on the mainland. It's still a relatively small island so if you get bored easily it won't work out. There are places where people from the mainland are advised not to go (they're dangerous), because for historical reasons there's a distinct separatist/nationalist streak in Hawaii.
I would love to go back to live there for a few years. I don't know if I'd want to live there permanently. But I do miss it.
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DividendGuy
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:58 pm
I've always wondered if Hawaii would be the ultimate ERE destination. Wonderful climate, tons of free outdoor activities, an award-winning bus system and beauty abound.
I picked Florida instead. Similar climate, but more humidity and a cooler winter. No state income taxes, which is a big bonus. It also has wonderful beaches and tons of free activities. The public transportation isn't quite as great where I'm at, but I get by. It's also a lot cheaper for things like food and rent. Another bonus is that it's cheaper to travel for the intercontinental 48.
Hawaii is my second choice though. If I wanted to really splurge and maybe work part-time that would be a primo destination.
I picked Florida instead. Similar climate, but more humidity and a cooler winter. No state income taxes, which is a big bonus. It also has wonderful beaches and tons of free activities. The public transportation isn't quite as great where I'm at, but I get by. It's also a lot cheaper for things like food and rent. Another bonus is that it's cheaper to travel for the intercontinental 48.
Hawaii is my second choice though. If I wanted to really splurge and maybe work part-time that would be a primo destination.
Hawaii is really nice, but it's not the ultimate in ERE.
Given that rent is quite high and general food is also expensive, and those are two of the biggest expenses, it's not ideal.
Plus, if you're not from Hawaii, you're occasionally going to be flying elsewhere to visit friends/family, which is *really* pricy if you're on a budget.
Ultimate ERE destination is probably Iowa or somewhere in the mid-US. At least, from an expenses standpoint.
Given that rent is quite high and general food is also expensive, and those are two of the biggest expenses, it's not ideal.
Plus, if you're not from Hawaii, you're occasionally going to be flying elsewhere to visit friends/family, which is *really* pricy if you're on a budget.
Ultimate ERE destination is probably Iowa or somewhere in the mid-US. At least, from an expenses standpoint.
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DividendGuy
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:58 pm
@KevinW
It's not realistic, at least not for 6 months out of the year.
However, with that said my first apartment here was a 1-br 700 sq foot pad that had electric bills as low as $40 and as high as $65...so it's not overtly expensive from an energy consumption standpoint.
Plus, the cheaper rent more than makes up for the fact that I have to use a/c for four months out of the year and heat for maybe one month. I would say it's at least 20% cheaper to rent here than it would be in a comparable location in Hawaii.
However...that isn't to say I wouldn't jump at the chance to live in Hawaii if it was realistic.
It's not realistic, at least not for 6 months out of the year.
However, with that said my first apartment here was a 1-br 700 sq foot pad that had electric bills as low as $40 and as high as $65...so it's not overtly expensive from an energy consumption standpoint.
Plus, the cheaper rent more than makes up for the fact that I have to use a/c for four months out of the year and heat for maybe one month. I would say it's at least 20% cheaper to rent here than it would be in a comparable location in Hawaii.
However...that isn't to say I wouldn't jump at the chance to live in Hawaii if it was realistic.
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dot_com_vet
- Posts: 603
- Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:07 am
@KevinW Considering HVAC is a very modern invention, I'd say you could realistically live pretty much anywhere humans have historically been (so perhaps not Las Vegas). I did fine without a/c in Georgia though it was uncomfortable at 95 and humid all summer. I did use the heat set to 55 in the winter though. Perhaps you could burn wood if you're looking to live off grid.
Ah, well this impression was based on anecdotes about foreclosed Florida homes that went a long time with no AC. It probably says something about US construction methods vs. climate appropriate designs (I had a college roommate from Hawaii who said their walls didn't even extend to the ground -- I don't know if he was pulling my leg, but it makes sense to maximize the breeze in the climate).
@KevinW - There are affordable coastal California places, but you may need to live closer to the higher crime neighborhoods than might suit you (or me). Vallejo is one example near the bay area. It is a truly diverse area though... nowhere else have I seen such an even 4-quarter pie chart on city-data for black/white/asian/hispanic... kind of interesting. (not implying a connection... the relationship is with the income level).
There are a lot of affordable places in the CA central valley with the same caveat. It's warmer there in the summer... like New England summer though - easy without A/C though. And for gardening - not going to do much better than there!
There are a lot of affordable places in the CA central valley with the same caveat. It's warmer there in the summer... like New England summer though - easy without A/C though. And for gardening - not going to do much better than there!