Lamenting Wedding Traditions

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
anesde
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by anesde »

I would buy a tux. You can definitely get one for $200 or less and use it again. Personally I hate the idea of renting another man’s pants. I bought a custom tux in Vietnam for a fraction of that and got much more use out of it

Sounds like you’ve made up your mind but for what it’s worth I agree with Ego. I see these things as a cost of maintaining a relationship and depending on the importance of the relationship it’s generally a drop in the bucket.

Go, have fun, and try not to think about how many other men wore those pants :)

jacob
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by jacob »

This reminds me of the typical noob problem of how to deal with consumer friends who want to go out for a $100 night on town all the time when the desire is to save the money instead. The usual response is to invite the frivolous consumers for a night of home cooking instead, possibly converting them. Or finding other friends.

Weddings are different being a (hopefully?! :-P ) one time event. So, it's also possible to punt and pay via a change of framework like viewtopic.php?p=189647#p189647 ... yet thinking like that ignores the greater influence one might have in terms of changing the family's financial relationships. Kinda depends on how far you wanna take this issue and in which direction you wanna take it. I see four different outcomes.

anesde
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by anesde »

I should add I’m wearing the same tux for my own upcoming wedding which required a negotiation of sorts with my fiancé. She’s on board with ERE and in many ways even more frugal than I am but still had an emotional reaction to me wearing something I already own to our wedding (vs a “special” garment). After some discussion she acknowledged that was a pretty irrational position but I’m just including it to say that many people have deep ingrained pre-disposed thoughts on weddings. You probably won’t change your sisters mind and it’s probably not worth it to try.

Make the most of it and enjoy!

jacob
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by jacob »

bigato wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:24 pm
The way I see it is, have the person ever come to visit you were you are? If they didn’t, I wouldn’t feel obligated to make the same trip the other way, let alone wear fancy or buy gifts. In that situation, the relationship already doesn’t exist now, for any meaningful definition of relationship.
Very good point!

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Bankai
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by Bankai »

@bigato, jacob

If I moved thousands of miles from where my family and friends live, I would not expect each and every one of them to visit me at least once, neither I would actually want that. It makes much more sense for me to go back every year or two and see them all than for them to travel individually. Also, it's perfectly possible to maintain a pre-existing relationship via telephone or the internet. Otherwise, you could never have 'relationship' with someone who can't travel for reasons like age, health, babies, money, environmental consciousness etc. I still have friends whom I maybe see once a year or less and it's always me going back to PL, whom I feel as close with as a decade ago - there's this instantaneous understanding each time we see each other. Also, would you not agree that exchanging thousands of posts over the internet for a decade and knowing someone better than almost anyone IRL (maybe other than SO and closest friends) counts as a relationship even if the pair never met 'IRL'?

bigato
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by bigato »

Bankai: actually there’s a lot of people here that I’d be more inclined to visit than most of my relatives. Yeah, it’s possible to keep some friendships over distance. Like a couple of friends that I haven’t visited in a decade and I saw them last year. It was great just like you described. But more often, distance will just expose the reality that there was no real relationship to start with. Yes sometimes it’s just not doable to visit. But email and instant messages are just within arms’ reach, and do people care? In my case, I don’t think they do, with a handful or two of very honorable exceptions.

It could also be the case that some people feel close because they see friends’ posts on social media and do some interaction there. They like, share, laugh, comment. But that does not fit any definition of meaningful relationship for me. I respect that other people may feel otherwise. I don’t even have social media anymore, and that makes me see the difference. But people who matter will find a way and will show interest. The rest are delusions in my opinion, and I’d rather cull them from my life. But still I don’t feel obligated to visit anyone who never even manifested much interest in me after I moved away. Sometimes you see more clearly from a distance.

I don’t know in which category theanimal relationship with his sister is; but I’m sure he knows.

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Ego
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by Ego »

bigato wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:53 pm
But people who matter will find a way and will show interest.
It takes two to tango.

TheAnimal is renting the tux so it is a moot point, but if he were to have refused to do so it could certainly have been (mis?)construed as a strong statement that he does not want a relationship with his sister.

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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by theanimal »

Ego wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:47 pm


It takes two to tango.
+1

I don't agree with the notion that someone not visiting means they're not interested in maintaining a relationship. It's the same thing I'm complaining about in reverse. I'll continue using me as an example. I'm the one that moved away, not my family or friends. Probably more than 90% of them are still in the same locale. Yes, I do expect some interest and effort from other parties but I'd say the greater onus is on me if I want to make those relationships work. I created the distance. I'm still able to maintain contact and relationships through other means. Making some sort of criteria like that is a cop out.

However, I don't think the tux could be seen as the statement you mentioned Ego. If I don't go to the wedding, yes. But whether or not I wear a tux when in attendance? I disagree.

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Ego
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by Ego »

theanimal wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 8:58 pm
However, I don't think the tux could be seen as the statement you mentioned Ego. If I don't go to the wedding, yes. But whether or not I wear a tux when in attendance? I disagree.
Understood. That's why I said it could have been misconstrued. Every relationship is different.

My brothers flew across the country for our wedding, were groomsmen and rented tuxes. I did the same for their weddings. Had one of us refused to do so it would have signaled a serious problem. For us. That is not necessarily the case for others.

The problem is that when marrying you are melding the traditions, expectations and sensitivities of at least two families and many, many people. It is incredibly stressful.

From my perspective, if I am not one of the main characters (the couple) then the last thing I should do is attract attention to myself or cause them any more stress. Also, I can imagine my brother trying to explain to his high-strung soon to be mother-in-law why his brother refused to wear a tux. I'd pay a lot of money to avoid causing a rift for my brother and his in laws. Again, that's me. And you know how frugal I am.

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jennypenny
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by jennypenny »

TBH, if I were your sister, I'd be hurt if you didn't participate as asked. I'd actually be pissed if you even complained about wearing a tux to anyone. She's not really asking too much or doing anything weird or outrageously expensive. Weddings are important moments for families ... it's not about the money, it's about being a part of a family tradition. Instead of focusing on the cost, try to feel grateful that you have a family that gets along well enough and has the money to maintain these kinds of traditions. Or that your sister wants you to be a part of it. It's not a given anymore.

I don't mean to sound harsh. It's just that there aren't that many 'big days' in a family -- weddings, funerals, births, graduations -- I think it's kinda easy to check those boxes to maintain family status and cohesion. I know you live far away and have an excuse not to participate but I'd refrain from using it too often with immediate family.

I guess all families are different though as Ego said. Mine is more like Ego's. I'm 53 and still close to my 3 siblings even though we haven't always lived near each other (and I appreciate/enjoy it more now than when we were younger).

steveo73
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Re: Lamenting Wedding Traditions

Post by steveo73 »

I complained about this topic a couple of years ago when my brother got married. I had to buy a black suit (as stupid to own as a tux) that was terrible and I have one nice suit that looks great.

My take is do whatever they want and enjoy it. Just realise that you are paying a lot less than they are.

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