Alice_AU journal

[Alice_AU]

Had a couple of very careful talks with my husband but not on the same page (yet?).

- He really wants that SUV he keeps talking about and is willing to save for it and then blow all the savings on this car.
- Thinks I'm crazy for suggesting salary sacrifice into super now to benefit from it in the future. One argument is "my dad retired at 62 and says he regrets it cause he's bored out of his mind", and another one is "I won't live to retirement age anyway".
- Is not willing to give up his $30/day smoking habit. Says this is something he actually enjoys and something that helps him to relax, his treat and his ritual. Even if (see not living till retirement age claim above).

On the positive note, he likes that I started watching the grocery budget and transferring the $50/week I now save there into the joint savings account we've just opened. Even though this makes a laughable 2.7% savings rate from our joint weekly budget. I'll look to increase this in the future.

He actually suggested we consider a prenup (in our case, post-nup) - something simple, along the lines "what is registered in each person's sole name is his/hers - whether it is savings, pensions, shares, real estate, vehicles or debts; and what is in joint names is 50/50". I will call a couple of legal firms to enquire.

[ChickenCoop]

Hi Alice, I used to live life pretty hard , Burning the candle both ends, drinking/Partying every weekend etc. I didn't want to live a long life either. I just lived in the moment in everything! I also lived paycheck to paycheck. I did buy a cheapish house (3-4x annual income) an hour from Melb. I needed a place to live(and thought about the forced savings side of it)I had to sell two cars for a 5% deposit and borrow 95% plus get mortgage lenders insurance as I had no savings! So, I sort of understand the not wanting to live a long life thing comes from. That did change for me when I FINALLY settled down and had two children in my mid 30's. I do want to see my kids grow up and have their own children. I can be fairly stubborn/egotistical at times and wouldn't want someone pointing out my failings or feeling like I'm being forced/coerced into something. In fact I'd probably dig my heals in or even rebel and go harder the other way(probably a worrying personality trait,lol)! If your DH is anything like me, you probably will have to plant seeds and let him come up with the ideas, or maybe like you are, do things yourself for your future and over time he will see you getting ahead and get on board. If he is competitive, maybe even do it separately a make it a competition?!
One other thing that 3 years ago helped me see a better future was a trip to a third world country by myself after a temporary family meltdown! I saw so many people that had very little, lived simple lives and made family the focus. I came back with a renewed enthusiasm for living a simple fugal life. I sold off most of my toys(cars and stuff) and increased my savings rate hugely and spend more time with my family.

There's maybe nothing in that that helps, but I certainly wish you the best for your journey.

[Alice_AU]

Wouldn't even dream of forcing/coercing anyone into anything! I'm quite content doing my own little thing independently and quietly, with an occasional note on this board when I feel like sharing or venting

[ChickenCoop]

Well done. Much more composed and rational than me, lol.
Keep up the great progress

[horsewoman]

Hi Alice, I've just read your journal in one go, very interesting to get glimpses into a life that is so different from mine! (Other side of the world, low income and rural living). Your figures seemed almost fantastical to me until I used a converter to EURO. If it consoles you, you would never get a town house in Munich for 3000 AUD in rent. On the other hand I feed my family of three plus 2 cats and 3 dogs for two weeks on one 300 AUD haircut :) in rural Germany.
Looking forward to further posts, and I'm rooting for you for spending less. In your case having separate finances is probably a good thing, but I would not be amazed if your husband sees the light after you "blazed the trail".

[Alice_AU]

Hi horsewoman, you're scaring me... HOW much is rent in Munich?
Just read your journal too, rural living sounds wonderful. It doesn't matter if you have a low income - I bet many people on this forum including myself have this quiet life in the country as a remote some-day goal and you're already there)

So-called "hobby farms", or "lifestyle farms" seem to be very desirable in Australia. In most coastal areas, the weather is good all year round, and with regular watering everything grows like crazy. I've been getting a lot of inspiration from this guy on youtube: Mark Valencia, channel "SelfsuffficientMe". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP3qUWQu-wI

Even planted a few tomatoes and capsicums in tubs on my own front porch. Hope I'll manage to keep them alive!

[horsewoman]

Munich is scary - IDK how large your house is in square meters to compare but in Munich an apartment with about 60m² goes for around 1.500-1.700 EURO a month, which translates to about 2500 AUD. I did not even find an ad for a house to rent. Of course in the outskirts, it gets a little bit more affordable, but not much. Crazy, yet everyone wants to live there for some reason. It is also the worst city in Germany when it comes to traffic, so I really cannot understand it, but then again I'm a country bumkin, so what do I know
The major downside to rural living is that one has to drive everywhere. My sister moved to Munich to go to uni, she never owned a car in her life.

I kill every plant I'm responsible for, so I married a gardener Not for that reason of course but it does come in handy! Good luck for your plants!

[Alice_AU]

Been to a cheap no-frills hairdresser at the mall, paid $33 instead of the usual $300. The cut looks good. Didn't include any usual extras like wash, conditioner, head massage, blow-dry & style, and no highlights either. But the end result is nice regardless. And huge saving of time and effort too - no appointment needed, waited 5 minutes to be seen and spent no more than 15 minutes in the chair. "The usual" would mean booking a week in advance, making sure I'm on time but likely having to wait on arrival, and around 3 hours spent in the salon. So very happy today)))

[mooretrees]

Well done! That's a HUGE savings, and if you like the haircut it might be a sustainable change. Bet it feels good!

[Alice_AU]

Thank you guys! If only the other expenses could be slashed this easily! )))

[horsewoman]

One at a time! We're rooting for you.

[Alice_AU]

DH and I have agreed to sign a prenup. Here in Australia, they are called BFA (binding financial agreement) and can be signed any time before, during or after marriage so although not technically a pre-nup, still very much a similar thing.

For him, the main driver to do this is that it gives him protection from my somewhat risky idea of getting an Investment Property one day. I can't stop thinking about it, so naturally can't stop talking about it, and he's quite sceptical. With AU house prices, even the cheapest IP will have to come with around half a million dollar mortgage, and he wants none of that. So in our prenup, we'll be agreeing amongst other things that my debts are just mine, and he's not responsible for them.

For me, the attraction is that I don't have to convince him into FIRE ideas urgently. We are still going to pay for everything 50/50 and how he spends the rest of his money becomes less of a concern. Still a concern, and I plan on convincing him some day, but for now I will at least feel safe to sacrifice things today in order to get things I want tomorrow. When I save for IP deposit, or do salary sacrifice into superannuation (pension), or buy index funds instead of fancy shoes, all of these will also remain mine, and if we spit up I won't have to lose half of it.

So I found a lawyer and we started filling some forms. A funny side effect is that we both had to declare everything - what we owe, and what we own. Both of us are very poor of course, the lawyer was quite puzzled that a couple with virtually no assets would even bother with something like this . But I had to show my very modest savings balance to my husband in the process ($28K now, after saving some more but having to pay $3K to the lawyer). I swear, ever since finding out my husband was looking at me a bit funny! Asked what he wanted for Christmas today, and he said "a new car would be nice!"... Haha, I don't think so!

[Alice_AU]

I'm so disappointed. The lawyer who is preparing our BFA took the payment a month ago but done nothing since. He promised the draft by last Friday, didn't send it. I called on Monday and he promised this Friday instead. Friday 7pm - still nothing, and he's not answering his phone. I can't believe someone can be so unprofessional! If I promise something done by COB Friday, I'll do it by COB Friday - full stop, even if it means staying up all night on Thursday.

[basuragomi]

My lawyer took four months to finish our contract, though it was a bit cheaper. I don't know how Australian law works, but in Canada your husband would likely need his own independent lawyer to review the agreement, explain it to him, and issue certification that both of these things have been completed. Otherwise a claim that he didn't understand the agreement could easily result in the entire thing being invalidated in court.

Maybe try thinking of the BFA as a vaccination against lawyers. The less you see of them the better.

[jacob]

Ditto US. Separate lawyers are required to avoid conflict of interest including the possible appearance thereof which could subsequently void the whole concept.

[George the original one]

$3k for a vaccination! Wow.

[Alice_AU]

Yes, after my lawyer prepares the draft my husband will get his own lawyer to review and give advice and certification, same as Canada.

Yes all of this is a hassle, and expense, and as I just discovered - additional stress from dealing with someone like this guy. Honestly, I am 38, I have been working, living adult life, dealing with all sorts of administrative and business situations since I was about 20, but I never-ever encountered this kind of "mañana" attitude in a professional setting. COB Friday always meant COB Friday, or at the very least first thing on Monday accompanied by an apology. Breaking a promise to deliver by Friday followed by casual "fine, I'll do it next Friday", breaking this promise too, and not even answering the phone... wow".

Maybe this is just a "lawyer" thing? Are they all like this? Am I making a fuss over nothing?

[Alice_AU]

$3k for a vaccination! Wow.

$3300 actually, a lot of money. Plus whatever will be charged by my husband's lawyer to review and advise. But given it works - either as a vaccination, or actual medicine, or even a placebo - worth every penny. My plans for the next few years are both ambitious and risky, and this paper will protect both of us.

a) If I get a huge mortgage for an investment property my husband will not be responsible for it no matter how things go, he can sleep at night and not worry about it. I on the other hand don't need to persuade him that IP is a good idea, won't need to get his agreement about which one to choose, etc.

b) It becomes safe for me to stash money in pensions and ETFs, I don't need to worry that that some time in the future I might have to give up half of my savings

c) It will help with persuading DH into better money habits. I done my calculations and it will take me 16 years to become FIRE saving enough for a cheap house in expensive Australia and 25*expenses. I can't do it for two people whilst the other person has 0-10% saving rate. Not unless I work till 65 which isn't something I want. Once the paper is signed and it is clear that no-one else is subsidizing his retirement, I hope it will be easier to persuade him into saving.

[steveo73]

HI Alice - just posting to say I read through this. I get where you are coming from as I live in Sydney.

[Alice_AU]

Thanks steveo73. Crazy HCOL here, isn't it? But such a wonderful place to live and raise kids, wish we moved here sooner!