Thanks for all the responses, a lot of interesting discussion and perspectives.
I'm going to make an attempt to respond to both people and topics, so sorry if I don't shout you out directly, it doesn't mean I don't value your contribution and hopefully I address your comments in a response to a topic.
Several responses mentioned the idea of crafting your job so that you like it or at least don't mind it. Other responses mentioned staying in a job you "don't mind" for future benefit.
I'm 100% for crafting your job so you enjoy it. In fact, I think the idea of "early retirement" in the literal sense, that is 100% leaving paid employment in your 30s or 40s, is actually kind of dumb. I'm not saying no one could enjoy this, I just find it hard to believe that, living in our society, many people would. This makes the ability to find employment (which I'll extend to running a business) that you find enjoyable on the best days and tolerable on the worst days an important skill.
Extrapolating "I've crafted my job so it is great" or "My job is o.k., so I don't mind keeping it for future security," why retire ever? I do think frugality, saving money and learning to invest have their own merits, and I know some here don't plan to retire when they hit their number. That's great, but I know there are also many here who dream of pulling the plug the second they cross the finish line.
I guess I find it hard to believe that if you've crafted your job really well, or are totally cool with your current employment, that you're going to quit as soon as you have $x. I don't think most peoples ideal working situation is showing up where someone else tells them when someone else tells them for 40+ hours a week.
@bsog: Thanks, turning it upside down was why I made the post. It's what I always want to say when I read journals of people dithering on if they have "enough" to leave fulltime work. Do you have "enough" freedom left to burn it working?
I enjoyed the lively debate about old age. I agree with those who said that having some extra cash when you're dying isn't really worth working for today, not the least because it probably won't buy you much. I agree that having social capital, and a feasible plan for deploying it, is much more important.
I want to make another argument though. That argument is for discounting the future. I'm 32 so 87 is 55 years away for me. I'm not saying YOLO, fuck that guy, I'm saying I have no idea what I'm going to want or who I'll be 55 years from now. I also have no idea what the world is going to be like. I think most of the shit that will benefit me in the next 10 years (staying healthy, maintaining important relationships, pursuing interests, etc..) is what will actually benefit me in 55. I think doing the things that make sure that me 1 year from now, 5 years from now and 10 years from now have the money, time, energy and ability to do what I want is the best shot at getting me 55 years from now to have the same thing.
If you're truly concerned with having enough money a super long time from now, steady part-time employment and/or intermittent full-time employment is probably a safer bet than saving a ton of money and retiring for 50 years.
classical_Liberal wrote: ↑
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:58 am
Lets not forget that overfiting the curve has more repercussions than simply working longer. There are the standard arguments like heath consequences, or missing out on an important phase of life (like young kids or whatever). But here's one I rarely read about around here. Saving money and/or financial security is super addictive! If c_L 4 years ago would have had the resources I have now, almost 18 years of expenses, plus highly paid part-time work, he would have thought "Holy shit! this is great, I'm free and never have to worry about money again!". However, c_L six months ago was on the path to work two or three more years to reach 100% on some monte carlo calculator, because "it's the only way to know I'm really financially secure". Changing the goals posts a bit in just a few years.
Ya, I mean, at least 50% of the reason I write this stuff is to remind myself of this.
It's kind of wild to me that we've coupled the idea that you can live for super cheap while saving multiple years worth of expenses with the idea that you must save enough money to retire forever before leaving full-time paid employment for even a little bit.
Like if I have 17 years of expenses saved up and I can live on less money than a full-time minimum wage employee earns, yet have thus far managed to earn 10x minimum wage, it's somehow amazingly dangerous to do anything but work until I have twice as much money.