Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Where are you and where are you going?
bigato
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by bigato » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:29 pm

Your ideas sound cool! :)
Today i walked past a red-cross office and that got me thinking that volunteering would be a cool way to spend some time travelling around without expending my own money. I may try that for a while once I quit my job.

Fish
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Fish » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:41 pm

TopHatFox wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:27 pm
I have no real life examples of people living differently successfully.
Maybe you could ask @7 if her permaculture internship offer still stands?

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:10 am

I think I'm leaning to trying my luck at creating a lifestyle business or businesses. Here are my thoughts:

Yes, I could do the 9-5 office job thing earning and saving 50k/yr for the next 5 years, but it'll kill me emotionally like it has this past year. And what would I do after I hit the finish line? Likely start lifestyle businesses like a lot of other FIRE writers. Working 9-5 on someone's else's projects makes me feel old as fuck every day, like a middle-aged zombie.

Instead, I could start different lifestyle businesses now at 25, and even if I only make and save 15K/yr for 10 years, I'd be in the same spot above, but with more lifestyle flexibility and working on my own projects. I'm smart and creative, I can likely get better over time. And, more importantly, it'll help me feel alive, like I'm working towards something I give a shit about. I won't want to hide my work like I'm embarrassed by it.

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Dream of Freedom
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Dream of Freedom » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:23 am

I know you are just kicking around ideas, but what kind of business do you have in mind?

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Working on getting a clear plan written out. Will have more details soon.

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Ego
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Ego » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:00 pm

What skills and interests do you have that make you unique?

You graduated with a degree from a good school with little help from your family. Hell, you weren't even a citizen when you started. Rather than graduating with a mountain of debt you have a pile of FU cash. How did you do that? Could you show other people how to do it? I know part of it is that you have good grades and are good at standardized tests, but I think there is more to it than that. I feel like I've been reading about the FIRE world for a long time and I've never heard a story quite like yours. I wonder if you could turn that into something.

Also, viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10712

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:39 pm

Maybe write it in Spanish? : ) That’d be super interesting.

Skills and interests that make me unique:

1. Frugal living
2. Polyamory
3. Tall ship sailing
4. ERE/100K by 25
5. First Gen narrative/Citizenship
6. Long-distance cycling
7. Thru-hiking
8. Possibly bus-living soon
9. Getting AA before HS diploma
10. Graduating from top college
11. Speak Spanish and English, Understand French & Portuguese

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Viktor K » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:11 pm

Obviously you should start a YouTube/Instagram channel, daily video blogging.

2Birds1Stone
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by 2Birds1Stone » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:16 pm

1. Frugal living - how frugal? If you had to pay for housing and all associated expenses right now, where would you fall?
2. Polyamory - hoeing it up isn't that unique
3. Tall ship sailing - intrigued, can you elaborate?
4. ERE/100K by 25 - kudos, this is awesome....but unless you use it as a springboard for something greater, it's just 1's and 0's in an account
5. First Gen narrative/Citizenship - dig it
6. Long-distance cycling - have you done this?
7. Thru-hiking - huge goal for triple crown here, hoping you follow through
8. Possibly bus-living soon - any updates on this?
9. Getting AA before HS diploma - yawn
10. Graduating from top college - double yawn
11. Speak Spanish and English, Understand French & Portuguese - triple yawn

imho, a good start, but to monetize on any of this, or go beyond dreaming and ideation, will take some balls and action. Not saying this in a bad way, I too have spent more time dreaming and "kicking the tires" than acting on many of the ideas in my head. It's time to start making moves if you want this to be more than just a fantasy. We all need to remind ourselves of this daily.

Pulling for you THF! Let me know if you happen to be back up in NYC area in the near future.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:21 am

Yesterday I finally slept on my back successfully. For those of you that have tried, this feels huge lmao.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by jacob » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:02 am

Two points,

1) What's your edge, that is, what are you bringing to the table that you have which can not be outcompeted by someone with better execution? I'll give you an example. With ERE I brought something akin to #4. When I did it, I was one of the first to write about it and the first to actually write a blog about it. Being first is a huge edge! You get the Matthew effect for free. My second edge is a rather unique perspective on things. This comes from reading and having read a shit-ton of books. Few others are willing to do this. Part of what sustains the ERE blog/book is that it is hard to replicate. Executioners can't just take it and improve it. Point being ... 100k@25yo is not that unusual anymore unless you're bringing something else to the table.

2) In order to make the most money, you have to write for where the money is. 7wb5 makes this point often. Observe how the highest income/value-add is in sales and marketing. The lowest is in invention. You need to be close to the money streams (who has the money, how loose is it, and how many are there?). You can do this in two ways. Doing both is better! Basically, the most money is made when you maximize the audience with discretionary spending [for your materials, advertising, ...] . This means writing 1-2 Wheaton levels above the mainstream and picking high-income groups. MMM is a really good example of this (software engineers). PhysicianOnFIRE is another one (doctors). FinancialSamurai is a third (bankers). I don't think they did it deliberately---all of them, as far as I know just happen to be in those vocations and being at those levels. Contrast with ERE. If it wasn't for writing the book (~$30k/year), this blog currently makes ~$1k/year much of which is paid out again in hosting and admin costs. This is because a) it's a +4 Wheaton levels and b) written for "academics". Terrible strategy if you want to monetize/make a living out of it.

Third point ... IIRC, you used to have a blog once ... which kinda faded in short order.
Thus, are you supremely confident that you're going to survive the 90 day rule of blogging?

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Stahlmann
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by Stahlmann » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:38 am

after last round of feedback, fox simply quitted for a moment :lol:
this technique isn't bad if we speak about time saving, but don't discourage him one more time so hard.

my 2 cents:
- find something 0.75 FT or even 0.5 FT as white collar just to stay stay connected with the real world
- in the rest time try creating "own business"
- or get involved asap in coolworks just to avoid capital depletion and depression caused by doing nothing

know it all basement dweller here, so above advice doesn't need to work IRL :lol:

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:12 pm

I don't think I'd do a blog for income. Just for marketing. Same with a podcast. Those mediums are better used as marketing for other purchasables, such as guides, maps, and so forth.

Working on the specific ideas with a close friend of mine that started a business as a speaker for low-income communities of color. Curious to hear what her experience with entrepreneurship has been over the past 2 years as a young person.

---------------

I dunno, it's odd. Most of the successful journals of people hitting FI seem to be of people who worked a job, increased their earnings from that job, reduced their expenses. and saved for years. I feel like I could do that, but probably only if I find a partner on the same path. Doing it alone is pretty horrible.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:23 pm

I think I’m torn between so many long-term goals and wanting to do them all now. It’s driving me absolutely nuts. I’d like to:

1. Take the GRE, GRE psych subject test, and get into a good psych program with a fellowship
2. Keep a job and get to 250K
3. Drop everything and go live in a van with an adventuress potential partner
4. Start a lifestyle business that would get me to ERE while being more content in the present

It just seems impossible and unhealthy to do them all, and the aging clock keeps ticking, so I end up just showing up to work every day on auto-pilot.

————

I think I just need to choose one and run with it and its consequences, and not worry about opportunity cost, and maybe practice patience or something.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by theanimal » Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:52 pm

Your goals aren't incongruent. The first 3 can be done at the same time and the 4th can be done at any time in your life. I don't think you realize how many opportunities there are outside traditional white collar corporate work. I'm living the life you are describing with far less assets. The corporate world and the standard path to FIRE is attractive because it is certain and "secure." The other path is uncertain, but that's what makes it fun. You don't know what opportunities are ahead but you set yourself up to being able to do whatever, whenever. Some personal examples are doing a 12 day remote trip on a weeks notice, heading to hot springs with friends on 12 hr notice on a weekday and getting more offers for jobs than I can do/want/know what to do with.

I don't think you realize how well set up you already are. Have you read any of the threads like "Money is a solved problem" and the semi-ERE talks in classical liberal's and suomalaisen's journals? They are well worth reading and are something I think you will find they are highly relatable.

Take the jump. Find out if you can swim. Worst case scenario you end up having to find another job. BFD.

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:21 pm

theanimal wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 8:52 pm
Your goals aren't incongruent. The first 3 can be done at the same time and the 4th can be done at any time in your life. I don't think you realize how many opportunities there are outside traditional white collar corporate work. I'm living the life you are describing with far less assets. The corporate world and the standard path to FIRE is attractive because it is certain and "secure." The other path is uncertain, but that's what makes it fun. You don't know what opportunities are ahead but you set yourself up to being able to do whatever, whenever. Some personal examples are doing a 12 day remote trip on a weeks notice, heading to hot springs with friends on 12 hr notice on a weekday and getting more offers for jobs than I can do/want/know what to do with.

I don't think you realize how well set up you already are. Have you read any of the threads like "Money is a solved problem" and the semi-ERE talks in classical liberal's and suomalaisen's journals? They are well worth reading and are something I think you will find they are highly relatable.

Take the jump. Find out if you can swim. Worst case scenario you end up having to find another job. BFD.
That all sounds good. I really don’t have much of a clear, actionable idea of what’s available outside of the 9-5. You, on the other hand, have walked much further in this regard than I have thus far. Maybe you can help me see! Care to talk over phone or Facetime this weekend?

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by niemand » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:26 pm

Good to hear that you’re getting help from a psychiatrist.

All the best with your lifestyle business ideas, just be realistic with the probabilities, it’s a winner takes all game, not easy to crack. On the other hand: what’s there to lose?

And +1 on having someone to share your path with. What were Chris McCandless’ supposed last written words? Happiness is only real when shared. So there you go :)

bigato
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by bigato » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:46 am

Let me just warn you a little bit about 3 and 4. If the idea of business is one enterprise which can work or not, take a look at the statistics of startups and don't be overly optimistic. Most initiatives will fail completely and it is not rare that people will work for ten years and then have nothing to show for it afterwards.

Living with someone else, specially in close quarters and in a potentially stressful situation like van living *and* hoping it could maybe become a relationship sounds like a recipe for disaster.

That's not to have you give up your ideas, it's just that you must make sure you have good contingency plans in place, and devised exit strategies that won't be too painful.

On the business side, I'd favour smaller, uncoupled sources of income and not a one single big idea that will be a single point of failure that can bring everything down. The all-or-nothing idea is strategically and statistically unsound. There's an additional advantage to favouring small incomes in that you can start while you have a full-time job. If you can't muster the will to make small sources of income at the current situation, chances are that you won't be able to put in the absurd effort required to make a big business idea work.

Van living with someone else that you don't already live with is just asking for trouble and not something I think you should really do. Try to split this in two steps somehow, it sounds like too much change at once: new radically different living arrangements and living with stranger. And as a rule of thumb for this kind of move, consider that everybody is a stranger until you get to live with them. Trust me, people will surprise you when you move in to live together. It sucks.

TopHatFox
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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by TopHatFox » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:56 pm

Thanks to some excellent conversation, I’ve found new leads for things to try next:

1. Wilderness Therapy, which does NOT require a masters (nature + counseling trial, excellent)
2. Coolworks-type jobs, which would be good to see beautiful places
3. Geology-type jobs doing expeditions

More importantly, I’ve found the philosophical backing that it’s not worth it for me to do the 9-5 even for five years if it means coming out the other end a 30-year old zombie. This other path may take longer, but it’ll FEEL so much better for me.

————

The plan now is to see if I can finish the summer at the 9-5, put in generous notice and good work, then finish the free + stipend Masters (including Portuguese) while working on businesses, and then hop on wilderness therapy in Summer 2020

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Re: Fox's Journey: And Onto the Sunlight!

Post by jacob » Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:35 pm

IIRC, Spartan Student (Ken Ilgunas) used to do some kind a [...] [tent] therapy thing? Perhaps wilderness. Maybe google his blog ... see what he's up to these days.

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