Project: Install a 12V lighting system into my new pedicab. The less ambitious version involves powering the front and rear lights I'm required to have. The more ambitious version involves adding a way to play music. The pedicab manufacturer charges $400 for just a lighting system. I think that $400 is enough to motivate me to figure out how to do it myself. So far, I've found a source for automotive type waterproof LED lights with trailing power wires and small (10 - 55 amp hour) AGM batteries and chargers.
Dumb Question 1: For maximum brightness, I figure I need all the lights hooked up in parallel. I also figure I need fuses and a switch for each system. In our boat, the battery would be hooked up to a little circuit breaker box. I know where to find small marine 2 or 4 switch boxes, but they all tolerate really high currents per circuit (30 amps for example, while I estimate all the lights on a cab to draw maybe .2 amps). I can find low amp inline fuses, but I still need to connect everything back to the battery. The manufacturer will sell you a wiring harness to join all the wires to the batteries...for the low price of $175. My question is, what can I use to combine all the wire at the battery. (If it makes a difference, the small batteries have only tiny little tabs at the terminals designed to be hooked up to the crimped on joiners. http://wheelgoods.com/store/product1036.html )
Dumb question number two: Would your answer for number one change if you knew that you might want to add other components that drew more amps later (ex~ speakers, amp)?
Advice for 12V Project
I'm not sure I understand... the more "professional" job you do, the more you'll spend. You can just solder everything together. You can get individual plugs like molex plugs and splitters (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subde ... p_id=10245). You can do a combination. It really depends on how easily you want to change things around.
I wouldn't worry about adding speakers later -- you could just give the speakers their own fuse. You could put a big honking fuse right in front of the battery and smaller fuses for each circuit...
You could go to a junkyard and buy 12v components like the fuse box from a car or boat. This should be extremely cheap.
I wouldn't worry about adding speakers later -- you could just give the speakers their own fuse. You could put a big honking fuse right in front of the battery and smaller fuses for each circuit...
You could go to a junkyard and buy 12v components like the fuse box from a car or boat. This should be extremely cheap.
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3199
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
+1 for the junkyards and auto parts stores, there's no need to reinvent the wheel here.
however, when it comes to LED lighting, that's where i'd jump ship. LED is relatively new to cars,and the adapted bulbs are overly spendy in my opinion. try googling LED lighting. you will find everything from LED rope lights to premade light bulbs to fit any socket to loose LEDs. you decide what you like, most places that sell the LEDs with sell control boxes.
LEDs are really low wattage. if you want a sound system, wire it seperately. even at our currently inflated prices, copper wire is still cheap. and don't buy monster cables. for anything.
when you come up with specific questions, i'll be happy to come up with specific answers. but first, i'll have to figure out what a pedicab is....
however, when it comes to LED lighting, that's where i'd jump ship. LED is relatively new to cars,and the adapted bulbs are overly spendy in my opinion. try googling LED lighting. you will find everything from LED rope lights to premade light bulbs to fit any socket to loose LEDs. you decide what you like, most places that sell the LEDs with sell control boxes.
LEDs are really low wattage. if you want a sound system, wire it seperately. even at our currently inflated prices, copper wire is still cheap. and don't buy monster cables. for anything.
when you come up with specific questions, i'll be happy to come up with specific answers. but first, i'll have to figure out what a pedicab is....
A pedicab is a bicycle taxi. Like a giant tricycle with a driver at the pedals and seats in the back. Austin, TX has 200+. Most cities have a few. The battery just has to last through a shift, then is recharged with a charger that plugs into the wall. With just lights, a 7 amp hour battery should take about 20 hours to discharge 50%, which is more than enough. If I were to install a sound system, I would have to get (and haul) a significantly more expensive and heavier battery. I'm still trying to decide whether I want to pull a 30lb battery all night.
I think the word/device I was searching for previously was a busbar. My current plan is to separate the headlights, flashing rear lights, and steady rear lights onto separate sections of the busbar, add inline fuses to each, and one switch for the whole thing between the battery and busbar. I've found LED flasher modules that I assume you also add inline to a circuit to make the blinky lights blink? I have access to a pedicab shop and its tools which most likely includes a soldering iron and crimper.
I think the word/device I was searching for previously was a busbar. My current plan is to separate the headlights, flashing rear lights, and steady rear lights onto separate sections of the busbar, add inline fuses to each, and one switch for the whole thing between the battery and busbar. I've found LED flasher modules that I assume you also add inline to a circuit to make the blinky lights blink? I have access to a pedicab shop and its tools which most likely includes a soldering iron and crimper.
While we're rethinking LEDs, check out this site I found a while back:
http://www.brightbikelight.com/
The guy basically put a xenon light kit into a salvaged motorcycle headlight housing (for focus/reflection) and runs it off a lead acid battery. Xenon is pretty efficient, but one thing he didn't address is that they tend to be a bit delicate -- not sure if you'd have lifespan issues. Obviously a different battery type could be used, and you'll basically pay more for lighter weight (like most things in the world).
3000 lumens for around $100. I think his system lasts only 1-2 hours, but he's probably using a smaller battery, and probably not deep-discharge capable. Also, I don't know how crazy you plan to get with your sound system, but they don't have to be high power. Think how long a boombox lasts when you bring one to the beach. If you don't need crazy thumping bass and really want background music for ambiance, I think you could find a cheap/free boombox and rewire it.
http://www.brightbikelight.com/
The guy basically put a xenon light kit into a salvaged motorcycle headlight housing (for focus/reflection) and runs it off a lead acid battery. Xenon is pretty efficient, but one thing he didn't address is that they tend to be a bit delicate -- not sure if you'd have lifespan issues. Obviously a different battery type could be used, and you'll basically pay more for lighter weight (like most things in the world).
3000 lumens for around $100. I think his system lasts only 1-2 hours, but he's probably using a smaller battery, and probably not deep-discharge capable. Also, I don't know how crazy you plan to get with your sound system, but they don't have to be high power. Think how long a boombox lasts when you bring one to the beach. If you don't need crazy thumping bass and really want background music for ambiance, I think you could find a cheap/free boombox and rewire it.
I've built a few 12v lighting systems using LED christmas lights. 2 for bikes, 1 for my tent, and a large one for my camp shade/yurt.
If you cut the LEDs off the string then re-wire them in parallel w/ a resistor in line ( which can be had cheap off the web) the string will run off 12v. A bit labor intensive, but a fun a project and can be done very cheaply. I'll have to go back and look at the string, but I wired it so that if one light faulted the entire string did not go out. Here's a site that helps determine the resistor: http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
Also, have you considered elwire? very bright and a very, very small draw:
http://www.elwirepros.com/portalights.html
If you cut the LEDs off the string then re-wire them in parallel w/ a resistor in line ( which can be had cheap off the web) the string will run off 12v. A bit labor intensive, but a fun a project and can be done very cheaply. I'll have to go back and look at the string, but I wired it so that if one light faulted the entire string did not go out. Here's a site that helps determine the resistor: http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz
Also, have you considered elwire? very bright and a very, very small draw:
http://www.elwirepros.com/portalights.html
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3199
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
i currently run xenons in my car, i'd absolutely go with them for the pedicab. standard fitttings, lower wattage, brighter light, what's not to love? i've had the expensive set installed by the dealer, and installed an ebay kit that was 65.00. the 65.00 kit had some components that were cheaper than the expensive kit, and some that were better. overall, i'd go with ebay again.
as to batteries, when you decide what you need, i'd recommend ebay and R/C batteries. if i remember right, ni-cad easily went into the 3000 mAh range, and they were getting into the nickel metal hydride when i lost interest, years ago. if you were to paralell a few nicad R/C packs, you'd have a standardized product for replacment/testing, and be able to take advantage of economies of scale. there's already alot of these made and established markets. plus a huge number of ultra competitive INTJs optimizing performance, number of charges, building discharging racks, cold charging, etc. you can get lots of advice online for battery performance and troubleshooting.
as to the bus bar, a junkyard fusebox will serve the same purpose, without adding extra cost or weight.
I'm still not getting the pedicab lighting. are we talking about exterior lighting, to drum up business and define shape at night, or interior lighting, and how much?
as to a stereo, i'd be thinking of a cheap old mp3 player and its adapter. that'd keep it light, simple and low power. you could take a hammer to the case, and rehouse it to anything you wanted to fit the theme of the pedicab...
i'm a big guy, and not in great shape, so keeping things light seems like the ultimate goal in any mod i think about. perhaps it isn't as important to you.
as to batteries, when you decide what you need, i'd recommend ebay and R/C batteries. if i remember right, ni-cad easily went into the 3000 mAh range, and they were getting into the nickel metal hydride when i lost interest, years ago. if you were to paralell a few nicad R/C packs, you'd have a standardized product for replacment/testing, and be able to take advantage of economies of scale. there's already alot of these made and established markets. plus a huge number of ultra competitive INTJs optimizing performance, number of charges, building discharging racks, cold charging, etc. you can get lots of advice online for battery performance and troubleshooting.
as to the bus bar, a junkyard fusebox will serve the same purpose, without adding extra cost or weight.
I'm still not getting the pedicab lighting. are we talking about exterior lighting, to drum up business and define shape at night, or interior lighting, and how much?
as to a stereo, i'd be thinking of a cheap old mp3 player and its adapter. that'd keep it light, simple and low power. you could take a hammer to the case, and rehouse it to anything you wanted to fit the theme of the pedicab...
i'm a big guy, and not in great shape, so keeping things light seems like the ultimate goal in any mod i think about. perhaps it isn't as important to you.
The Pedicab is open all around, so there's no real interior. I'm required by Ground Transportation to have a white light on the front of my cab and at least two red lights on the back as well as a slow moving vehicle triangle. That's just for safety. There's no brightness requirements; lots of people use regular bike lights, but the difference in visibility between a cab with two 3 LED blinkers with half dead AAAs and one with 40 or 80 LEDs and a 12V battery is pretty big. Adding ground effects, stereos, or otherwise pimping your cab does help attract peoples attention and make them want to ride, but it's not required.
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ICouldBeTheWalrus
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 3:00 am
I'd recommend looking at LED truck marker lights for something reasonably priced but low power consumption and bright that can be run of an ordinary 12 volt lead acid battery. e.g: http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/ ... htm#marker
When choosing a battery, unless it is specifically specified for deep-cycle usage, don't size it so that you'll be discharging it much in regular use. Obviously there's a cost trade off between buying a smaller deep-cycle battery versus a larger non-deep-cycle lead acid battery. Also, the larger battery weighs more. Most of the inexpensive black-plastic encased sealed lead acid batteries which are used in UPSes, emergency lighting and as motorcycle starting batteries are NOT rated for deep-cycle usage. Real deep-cycle batteries are the sort used for running trolling motors and providing 12 volt power in marine/RV applications while a generator/solar is unavailable.
When choosing a battery, unless it is specifically specified for deep-cycle usage, don't size it so that you'll be discharging it much in regular use. Obviously there's a cost trade off between buying a smaller deep-cycle battery versus a larger non-deep-cycle lead acid battery. Also, the larger battery weighs more. Most of the inexpensive black-plastic encased sealed lead acid batteries which are used in UPSes, emergency lighting and as motorcycle starting batteries are NOT rated for deep-cycle usage. Real deep-cycle batteries are the sort used for running trolling motors and providing 12 volt power in marine/RV applications while a generator/solar is unavailable.
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Riggerjack
- Posts: 3199
- Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 3:09 am
ok, so a few ounces weight won't be noticed so much. still, i'd go nicad batteries, and junkyard fusebox, and probably some kind of xenon foglamp setup similar to this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-200 ... ccessories.
a search of ebay/motors for boat parts/LED gave me 1500 results for lights to fit your tastes. boat parts/car parts, whatever, just make sure you incorporate weatherization.
if you prefer a car type battery, you can always use a motorcycle/lawn tractor battery ans still save some weight.
as to how to wire your lights, look up parallel vs series circuits. with something like this, i'd start with what i want to hook up, then worry about how to configure it. one advantage with going with car/boat accessories is that they are already configured for 12v. no need to worry about resistors and playing ohm's law games.
so, simple wiring diagram would show, a battery, hot lead going to a fuse box, each circuit would then get a switch, then lights or stereo, then the other terminal of the light goes back to the battery. you can vary how many lights, circuits, stereo,etc, but it's all going to connect up along those lines.
if it were my project, i'd be thinking in terms of how i could mount everything where i wanted it first, then how to wire it, keeping fuse box and battery out of sight, and hiding the wiring as i could. use the commercial models as an example, and modify to your contentment.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-200 ... ccessories.
a search of ebay/motors for boat parts/LED gave me 1500 results for lights to fit your tastes. boat parts/car parts, whatever, just make sure you incorporate weatherization.
if you prefer a car type battery, you can always use a motorcycle/lawn tractor battery ans still save some weight.
as to how to wire your lights, look up parallel vs series circuits. with something like this, i'd start with what i want to hook up, then worry about how to configure it. one advantage with going with car/boat accessories is that they are already configured for 12v. no need to worry about resistors and playing ohm's law games.
so, simple wiring diagram would show, a battery, hot lead going to a fuse box, each circuit would then get a switch, then lights or stereo, then the other terminal of the light goes back to the battery. you can vary how many lights, circuits, stereo,etc, but it's all going to connect up along those lines.
if it were my project, i'd be thinking in terms of how i could mount everything where i wanted it first, then how to wire it, keeping fuse box and battery out of sight, and hiding the wiring as i could. use the commercial models as an example, and modify to your contentment.
If anyone is curious, I actually did succeed at doing this, although I didn't save all that much money over having it done by the company. Still, it looks pretty good, I learned a lot, and i could have easily done it for cheaper if I had access to a couple of different tools. I move around too much to add a table saw or a router or a drill press to my list of possessions. At some point it is cheaper just to accept that I earn that money back every month I live rent free with all my stuff in my bike trailer. Pictures and component list here: http://peanutbutterdiet.blogspot.com/20 ... dicab.html
I'd go with the off the shelf LED truck lights as well...either markers or if you want a little slicker the brake/turn signal ones...round is cheapest oblongs or square more expensive.
One benefit is all you'd need is a hole saw to drill the right size hole in the back panel of the pedicab...the rubber grommets the lights are press fitted into can come with the lights or bought seperately.
One of the advantages of truck lights is they are designed and built in vibration resistent housings.
For the stereo...go to a scrapyard and get an old car radio...hook up speakers and connect to a motorcycle battery and see how long it plays. Batteries come in all sizes its just finding the one that will run it all night...not a monster that will run it a week between charges.
One benefit is all you'd need is a hole saw to drill the right size hole in the back panel of the pedicab...the rubber grommets the lights are press fitted into can come with the lights or bought seperately.
One of the advantages of truck lights is they are designed and built in vibration resistent housings.
For the stereo...go to a scrapyard and get an old car radio...hook up speakers and connect to a motorcycle battery and see how long it plays. Batteries come in all sizes its just finding the one that will run it all night...not a monster that will run it a week between charges.
@dragoncar: If I had had or knew someone with a workshop, I probably could have easily used scrap wood for the back panel and saved ~$30. I had someone from my shop tell me I was welcome to use theirs in the future. Also, I found out we have a 30-40% business discount at batteries plus. There were some components I later found slightly cheaper online and some things I had to buy that I didn't use all of (for instance, I have way more wire than I needed, more connectors, etc.) For the blinking, I added a universal scooter LED blinker module inline in the tail light circuit. It was cheaper than buying two lights with built in blinkiness.
@Frugalzen: I used trailer lights for the tail lights. The problem I had with automotive lights is that a lot of them are made to be plugged into special plugs (which I would have had to buy) or are made to be grounded through one of the mounting bolts (which doesn't work if they are mounted to a wooden board and not a metal car). The lights I chose were one of the few that just had two wires sticking out of the back.
@Frugalzen: I used trailer lights for the tail lights. The problem I had with automotive lights is that a lot of them are made to be plugged into special plugs (which I would have had to buy) or are made to be grounded through one of the mounting bolts (which doesn't work if they are mounted to a wooden board and not a metal car). The lights I chose were one of the few that just had two wires sticking out of the back.