Intelligence Decay

[slowtraveler]

Does anybody else here feel their intelligence has decayed over time?

Mine seemed to peak in my late teens and then slowly decrease, along with my motivation. I initially suspected cannabis but looking back, it peaked higher after consuming cannabis and it seems more distraction, smart phones, less exercise, and less broad social networks coincided more directly with it.

I'm still developing skills, more financially intelligent, calm, and warm than before but I can't help but feel I lost the sharpest edges of my intelligence. I forget things more often, write less poetically, and don't have that intense drive I used to. Perhaps it's purely nostalgic but I feel there's something here.

[TopHatFox]

I think so. I’ve definitely noticed an intelligence decay in changing from a college setting to an office setting. Also from moving from having 10-20 really close friends and hundreds of interesting acquaintances to like 5 close friends, fanily and nobody else I care about.

[daylen]

Could be ontological congestion. The cure is to simplify and reduce unnecessary information consumption.

I'm a certified psychiatric philosopher.

[Jean]

My short term memory is duller, but assimilating classes is easier than 14years ago. Or maybe level in college is lower.

[ThisDinosaur]

Could be ontological congestion. The cure is to simplify and reduce unnecessary information consumption.

https://fhww.files.wordpress.com/2018/0 ... rwhelm.pdf
Tim Ferriss talks about a similar concept.

It's like data compression. You will accomplish much more (and seem smarter) by making many suboptimal but adequate decisions than by ruminating over a few optimal ones.

Also, a psychiatric philosopher? Say more things about this.

[Seppia]

I don't feel like I lost "intelligence", but in fairness there wasn't much to lose to begin with

Mostly I feel there has been a huge drop in my ability to concentrate on tasks I'm not motivated to do, which I attribute to smartphone use.
I can still keep focused for a long time on something I care about, but I have a much harder time keeping concentration if I don't give a damn

[daylen]

Also, a psychiatric philosopher? Say more things about this.

Just some word play, ha. My posts are like 10% hyperbole. Otherwise, I would never actually post anything, because I would continuously spot flaws and get side tracked by what if questions.

[prognastat]

I don't know about my intelligence though if I recall statistically IQ generally peaks in your late teens and then slowly decays.

The thing I have noticed far more though is that my focus is much less than it used to be. My suspicion is this is due to current day technology rather than ageing though. I used to love reading books all the time and had no trouble getting caught up in a book and forgetting about the time. That doesn't happen all that much anymore. I tend to get distracted far easier.

[slowtraveler]

It's comforting to know I'm not alone in this. I'm definitely getting too much technology time. Giving up the smart phone is something I've considered for some time now.

@prognastat I'd never heard of iq peaking so early before, that's why I asked since I thought it was strange but your post inspired me to google when iq peaks, and the following results* came up.

I've got a wider field of topics I'm aware of but the processing speed has slowed significantly. I've also noticed more of the drawbacks of simply focusing on speed so that belief may be causing a conscious slowing down as well.

*
Information processing speed peaks earliest, around age 18 or 19.
Short-term memory is strongest at about age 25, before it begins to drop around age 35.
The ability to accurately identify others' emotions hits its peak during the 40s and 50s.
Vocabulary skills reach their height in the 60s and early 70s.
https://www.inc.com/laura-montini/when- ... think.html

[Tyler9000]

Does anybody else here feel their intelligence has decayed over time?

Mine seemed to peak in my late teens and then slowly decrease, along with my motivation. I initially suspected cannabis but looking back, it peaked higher after consuming cannabis...

How much of it do you really think is your intelligence waning in absolute terms versus you finally waking up to the fact that you're not as smart as you thought you were as a cocky young kid under the influence?

[Seppia]

Great observation Tyler.
I'm not sure how serious of a remark it was, but intuitively I would say there's certainly a lot of truth in it

[Tyler9000]

Oh I meant it seriously, even if it included a little lighthearted ribbing. There's a good chance you're not less intelligent at all -- just wiser.

I sometimes feel like I'm not as sharp or creative as I felt back in high school or college. But when I objectively think about how both versions of myself might handle the exact same challenge, it's really no contest and my younger version wouldn't stand a chance. IMO the Dunning-Kruger effect does not simply apply to different people based on their abilities but also to the same person based on his or her experience, and it's understandable that the inevitable shift of self-awareness might take some time to get used to.

[cmonkey]

This can be staved off by exercise, as is the case with any part of the physical body. The brain is a physical organ after all.

+1 to having less concentration, though. This is almost entirely technology driven. Reading at least an hour a day and keeping electronics use to an hour or two a day are the two most important strategies for myself.

[DutchGirl]

Does anybody else here feel their intelligence has decayed over time?

Mine seemed to peak in my late teens and then slowly decrease, along with my motivation. I initially suspected cannabis but looking back, it peaked higher after consuming cannabis

Just pointing out that sometimes an effect isn't immediate, but can come a bit later.

Hopefully you can still understand what I mean.

(kidding)

[7Wannabe5]

The ability to integrate new information quickly goes down, but general familiarity with any field improves with experience, so pace of integration can remain rapid on the level of recognizing what sort of thing any new thing is (obvious example being "unadulterated bullshit" tends towards smelling the same no matter what technological era it is packaged in.)Unfortunately, I think this is why many people tend towards sticking to previously trodden territory as they age.

Also, as with everything else, you come to realize that maintenance costs eventually dwarf acquisition costs. Simple example would be I might say "Yes" if you asked me if I know how to hand embroider or solve problems in abstract algebra, but I haven't practiced either of these skills for almost 30 years, so ...?

[Jason]

I went back to a university setting in middle age and this is what I found;

(1) In terms of deep thinking, reading i.e. comprehension-retention-integration, public debate, learning new concepts, and written composition, I excelled;
(2) In terms of rote memorization, regurgitation of facts, learning new languages, and most basic 101 exercises i.e. journaling, outlining, etc. it was extremely difficult and was one of the reasons I left.

So basically independent study, open discussions or small seminars, I excelled. Conjugating verbs in classroom setting, I was getting lapped. It was like joining the Marines and being able to strategize the capture of a city without being able to elbow myself through the mud under barb wire. At first I thought it was just simply not wanting to dial it down to 101, but then I realized it was something deeper - I couldn't dial it down to 101, at least without tremendous effort and I basically didn't want to put in the effort because it was like working with a handicap. Also, the gears didn't switch seem to switch as easily between the macro and micro, or the simple and the complex. And this was all without the distractions of trying to get laid.

Youthful enthusiasm helps but it also overemphasizes. It makes what you are learning more important that it actually is and as you get older you can't go home to that again. The sharp edges of intelligence want to be rounded into the smooth curves of wisdom. I remember turning 21 and my girlfriend's father said "You are now too old to believe rock lyrics." Do I still love books? Of course. But I think I'm past the stage where they will actually change my life which I think in real time, is just the impression that they are changing your life.

[EdithKeeler]

I think my intelligence has CHANGED as I've gotten older. At 54, one thing I find annoying is that I occasionally forget, just a for a few seconds, and only once in a while, a word or something I was thinking of. (I've talked to my doctor about this and he's advised that it's nothing to worry about, just, well, getting older.... I hate it). I've always been good at remembering new facts and ideas I'm interested in, and I still have excellent recall for stuff I'm interested in. If I'm not particularly interested, though... it's gone. I was always that nerdy kid and college student that had all kinds of facts in my head.

But I think that as I've gotten older, I've gotten much better at "big picture" thinking and strategy. Things at work that call for a longer-term plan--I'm on it. I'm much more analytical and can see how things will go, and am better at anticipating outcomes--"if we do this, then that will likely happen, and then this will probably follow." I think a lot of this is just experience--life experience, job experience, etc.

I know my EQ has increased a lot. I'm much "smarter" about people and their motivations and stuff than I used to be. I used to not be able to read people, gullably believed everything I was told, but my bullshit detector works much better now, and I'm much better able to figure out why someone's doing/saying something (which is probably part of the being more analytical and seeing the big picture).

I started to say that I'm slower at learning new things, but really that's not true. I think I'm just much more discerning about what I bother to remember. I want to learn spanish, and it's coming along pretty well. I have to take a class for work and it's boring the shit out of me, so I'm not doing that great. In other words, my motivation has changed.

[ThisDinosaur]

At 54, one thing I find annoying is that I occasionally forget, just a for a few seconds, and only once in a while, a word or something I was thinking of. (I've talked to my doctor about this and he's advised that it's nothing to worry about,

I once read about a study where they gave people a survey, and followed up years later to see what questions were predictive of dementia. The most predictive question was,
"Do you sometimes forget things?"

Twist: the answer predictive of dementia was "No."

[slowtraveler]

The layers of why I held that belief have been peeling away thanks to this thread, it's helped me shift how I think about this situation.

There's multiple factors at play. The expression of intelligence and perspective have changed. I see fewer goals as be all end all now so if I don't enjoy something, it's harder to force my motivation to do it. A broader thinking style means specific tasks may be more difficult but the whole situation is often more efficient-ie- skip University and keep building on the better work situation or do another job I'd enjoy more in Colorado.

@Tyler
That was eye opening, the Dunning Kruger effect is at play.

-------------Some Background---------
At my imagined peak, I was taking premed classes early and competing in MMA. The youngest in all my classes and the only blue belt in BJJ who couldn't legally drink in my dojo.

As I progressed into higher levels, the skill level of my peers kept increasing until I gradually dropped to the lower half of those peer groups. My motivation on dropped off a cliff once I realized that a Biology degree let's you be a waiter for a catering company and improving fighting skills had negative further value due to injury risk at higher levels.

@Dutchgirl
Can you explain it again? More slowly.

[Campitor]

I'm summarizing from a bunch of sources I've read but this is what I know about knowledge and brain atrophy. As you become familiar with a particular set of knowledge or a skill, you're brain becomes more efficient at processing the information,i.e., less parts of the brain are used to recall learned information and to amalgamate its various bits into a practical solution. This efficiency comes at a cost, you're brain begins to atrophy because of its lower utilization of other regions.

To overcome this atrophy, which is often associated with aging, you constantly have to learn new things that causes your brain to perform mental gymnastics. So exercise the brain. Learn a new skill, do puzzles (sudoku, crosswords, etc.). Memorize new facts, read new books, learn to play an instrument. This will keep your brain healthy. Brain atrophy doesn't need to happen as you age. You're brain isn't slow because you're old, you're slow because you don't use the ole brain.