brute journal

Where are you and where are you going?
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FBeyer
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Re: brute journal

Post by FBeyer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:53 am

And you still made half a year's expenses in one month? Giggolo side-hustle?

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:46 am

bitcoin up 60% in one month

slowtraveler
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Re: brute journal

Post by slowtraveler » Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:06 am

Seriously. I'm considering putting in a 500-1000 just in case it goes to the moon.

You're 20% of the way there. Congrats, Brute.

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C40
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Re: brute journal

Post by C40 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:49 pm

It already is to the moon. But it can keep going, right? I don't know much of anything bout bitcoin, so don't take my opinion for anything, but I think we're approaching a bitcoin bubble pop. Why? I'm starting to see idiot vandwelling hippie losers talk about bitcoin investing on Instagram. But even if there is a pop coming, in how long? There are a lot more losers that could get in (and a lot more fast growth) before it pops.

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bryan
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Re: brute journal

Post by bryan » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:12 am

It being to the moon already means I would expect some correction/settling out to happen, shortly. The moving average I am looking at, which has been a "floor" in the past, is at $5k. It's the one I use for estimating my BTC worth for NW purposes. Decent way to mostly avoid the daily price drama. I still expect most demand to come from wall street; main street if an ETF comes around.

I only know one person (!, unless others are keeping mum) who has bought some BTC within the last few months (who hadn't before). Family are finally happy that I got them some BTC for xmas years ago (though my uncle had the most fun with it by keeping the paper wallet on him and always whipping it out any time he overheard someone talking about Bitcoin). The main reason I am still holding Bitcoin now is the overall economic/market situation/prices, otherwise I'm a bit bearish on Bitcoin.

I think people underestimate the psychological factor at play with (especially the Bitcoin) price; they don't quite understand what it means to have no new "shares" being issued, no "stock splits" possible, and prices being set on the margin. Demand amplifies and mostly controls the price. The best that can be done for now is start quoting the mBTC price: $6.40. See! Not very hard to believe it could go up to $32 or higher! Market Cap is a similarly weird thing (humans seem to invent value out of thin air or set strange prices all the time). Then again I'm not so into financials, so I'm sure I'm missing some other factors or better metrics.

I just saw that the recent fall to $6.4k (-600?) has been offset by a rise in Bitcoin Cash fork $600->$1300 (+700). Luckily I still have most of those coins as well.. though I had meant to exchange them since forever. I have no explanation as to why BCH would have such a high valuation; if it's legit, we are in store for a really weird future of monies (or perhaps reliving some weird history). A bit disappointed that the new sw2x fork didn't happen though.. I guess next time I should trade fork futures ahead of time (the assumption being if the futures crash, the miners/users will not even attempt the fork)?

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:27 pm

6 years of expenses

suomalainen
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Re: brute journal

Post by suomalainen » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:15 pm

How long you planning on working full time? At this rate, 2 years to 30 yrs.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:19 am

volatility is volatile

classical_Liberal
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Re: brute journal

Post by classical_Liberal » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:26 am

Cashing in on any gains or letting it all ride?

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 am

to the moon :)

NPV
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Re: brute journal

Post by NPV » Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:46 pm

Found a link to this topic in "Best of ERE 2017" and enjoyed reading it. I empathize with a lot of Brute's worldview (nihilism, optionality, paleo, weightlifting, weirdness, disregard for opinions of bystanders etc.) and think we could make good friends if we didn't live on different sides of the Pacific Ocean.

One point I wanted to share some thoughts on is "Brute's search for meaning":
BRUTE wrote:
Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:32 pm
but does it make brute feel like he has a purpose, or if his life has meaning? no. brute's belief is that everything humans attribute purpose or metaphysical meaning to is just scratching their dumb little biological itches - be it family, religion, or whatever. would more individuals be honest with themselves and raise their head from their self-constructed hamster wheels, they'd arrive at the same conclusion. brute is just more honest with himself. he's just stardust.
I understand "curing Brute of existential nihilism" is not necessarily desirable and am not attempting it. I also understand that Brute's knowledge that there is no objective meaning in life and universe is taken by Brute purely informatively rather than as something to be sad about. However I also notice strong curiosity from Brute on this subject (undoubtedly, another evolved biological "itch" as populations with more curious monkeys had higher chances to survive and thrive).

I think the opportunity here is elevating the framing of this "no objective meaning" thesis from purely informational to actually liberating and empowering. Of course, there is no objective meaning - meaning is a figment of our imagination and we are free to imagine whatever we wish. And of course, we are simply a highly intelligent monkey species which evolved civilization, culture and knowledge on the back of a weird evolutionary strategy while retaining evolutionary artifacts of our ancestors - whether they are useful or not in modern world. So, that is the cards you are dealt. The cool thing is you can do whatever you want with it. This is the game - there are no rules - you get to do whatever the fuck you want, and to invent whatever meaning you want. How fun is that playground! Isn't that a much more exciting world than a hypothetical one with one textbook Holy Grail of meaning to be found?

Now in terms of actually choosing your source meaning, in broad terms I would define the most powerful source of meaning for me as "increasing control of reality and the acquisition and accumulation of capabilities and assets to do so". I think a similar point was made by Riggerjack above, with a focus on "acquisition" part. At the extreme side of this, I remember Elon Musk mentioning in an interview that the reason he was doing SpaceX and Tesla and all other world changing projects is because it keeps him excited to wake up in the morning. I think this source of meaning and motivation falls under the same framework, taking it as close to its logical conclusion as anyone probably has, as Elon tends to do with things. Ray Dalio in his recent book postulated that evolution is the meaning of life, which I think also falls under this framework as human evolution at this point is increasing control over natural environment, although unlike Ray Dalio, I am not quite sure that this meaning is as universal - it is simply a fun, useful and exciting one for me and some other people to choose. Might or might not work for Brute as well.

Where magic seems to happen is at the intersection of applying this framework to domains you are most excited about. For Elon it is making humanity and interplanetary species and making sure the light of intelligence does not fade in the universe. For Ray Dalio it is markets, meaningful work and meaningful relationships. For Riggerjack it is building out his house and accomplishing other feats. Brute seems to already enjoy a few interesting domains from weightlifting and coding to cryptocurrencies. He has also tested a few which did not seem to get him excited enough (e.g., skanky dolls). A potential next step might be choosing one of those which are already working, or a new domain Brute is curious about and giving it a real go - hopefully forming a fun obsession a-la Elon, Dalio or Riggerjack. Much cleaner way to get your opioids than dogs or heroin.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 am

brute has found nihilism and the realization that life has no objective meaning somewhat liberating. a few years ago he would've said very liberating, but once there is nothing left to be liberated from, there is no further liberation, and thus brute now merely finds this insight neutral.
NPV wrote:you get to do whatever the fuck you want, and to invent whatever meaning you want
while the first part is true, the second is not - that's the crux. as a wise human once said, brute can do what he wants, but he can't want what he wants. just as Elon Musk didn't choose to strive for space or power over reality, and Ray Dalio didn't choose to get excited by platitudes and financial markets, brute doesn't get to choose what he wants.

in fact, brute has been thinking that it would be logically impossible to want what he wants - kind of a first mover problem. brute thinks he even opened a thread about this on here, but doesn't remember if it got very far.

the hand brute has been dealt not only includes a lack of objective meaning, but also the biological circumstances that entice him, and thus the potential for subjective, personal meanings.

brute does not have many aspirations. brute does not get excited at the idea of starting a multi-billion dollar hedge fund. or going to space. sure, it sounds nice and what not. but not enough to get out of bed. (brute is literally in bed right now). (incidentally, brute has been reading the recent Ray Dalio book today, and he's not very impressed. just another self-help book).

brute would define "meaning" as "something that lets brute forget about the fact that life is meaningless", a distraction. very few things let brute forget about this for longer than a few minutes or hours at a time. apparently Elon Musk can think about space for many days straight without getting bored. there doesn't seem to be such a thing for brute, or at least he hasn't found it.

this isn't to say that brute wishes he had such a thing, or had found it. sometimes he does wish for this, sometimes he thinks wishing for what one wants is paradoxical. sometimes, when he feels particularly cynical, he chuckles at the Elon Musks and Ray Dalios that get real excited about the little part of reality they've fenced off for themselves to play their little games in. then brute remembers that he also sometimes fences off little areas to play his little games, they just don't seem to last very long.

of the best or most "meaningful" moments of brute's life, many have been fictional (e.g. a good book, movie, or song), and many have been trivial (e.g. a particularly well-dried piece of ribeye, or a nice cup of coffee on a Saturday morning while realizing that there is no need to do laundry any time soon).

very few of those moments involved anything aspirational, challenging, or even particularly interesting. less than half or a third involved social interaction at all.

if brute had to describe the characteristics of his biological itches, they would have a very low bar and be very easily satisfied completely. i.e. even a decent cup of Starbuck's coffee is easily good enough for brute, but after 3-4 of even the best cup of coffee he's ever had, he's kind of done for a while. easily excitable, easily exhausted.

brute should probably figure out a system of various affordable, reliable, dopamine inducing activities that he can cycle so that one will replace the other before any reach saturation. in a sense, this is probably what most humans do - set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless. brute is just a bit more cynical about it than most humans.

NPV
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Re: brute journal

Post by NPV » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:06 am

BRUTE wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 am
while the first part is true, the second is not - that's the crux. as a wise human once said, brute can do what he wants, but he can't want what he wants. just as Elon Musk didn't choose to strive for space or power over reality, and Ray Dalio didn't choose to get excited by platitudes and financial markets, brute doesn't get to choose what he wants.

in fact, brute has been thinking that it would be logically impossible to want what he wants - kind of a first mover problem. brute thinks he even opened a thread about this on here, but doesn't remember if it got very far.

the hand brute has been dealt not only includes a lack of objective meaning, but also the biological circumstances that entice him, and thus the potential for subjective, personal meanings.

brute does not have many aspirations. brute does not get excited at the idea of starting a multi-billion dollar hedge fund. or going to space. sure, it sounds nice and what not. but not enough to get out of bed. (brute is literally in bed right now). (incidentally, brute has been reading the recent Ray Dalio book today, and he's not very impressed. just another self-help book).

brute would define "meaning" as "something that lets brute forget about the fact that life is meaningless", a distraction. very few things let brute forget about this for longer than a few minutes or hours at a time. apparently Elon Musk can think about space for many days straight without getting bored. there doesn't seem to be such a thing for brute, or at least he hasn't found it.

this isn't to say that brute wishes he had such a thing, or had found it. sometimes he does wish for this, sometimes he thinks wishing for what one wants is paradoxical. sometimes, when he feels particularly cynical, he chuckles at the Elon Musks and Ray Dalios that get real excited about the little part of reality they've fenced off for themselves to play their little games in. then brute remembers that he also sometimes fences off little areas to play his little games, they just don't seem to last very long.

of the best or most "meaningful" moments of brute's life, many have been fictional (e.g. a good book, movie, or song), and many have been trivial (e.g. a particularly well-dried piece of ribeye, or a nice cup of coffee on a Saturday morning while realizing that there is no need to do laundry any time soon).

very few of those moments involved anything aspirational, challenging, or even particularly interesting. less than half or a third involved social interaction at all.

if brute had to describe the characteristics of his biological itches, they would have a very low bar and be very easily satisfied completely. i.e. even a decent cup of Starbuck's coffee is easily good enough for brute, but after 3-4 of even the best cup of coffee he's ever had, he's kind of done for a while. easily excitable, easily exhausted.

brute should probably figure out a system of various affordable, reliable, dopamine inducing activities that he can cycle so that one will replace the other before any reach saturation. in a sense, this is probably what most humans do - set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless. brute is just a bit more cynical about it than most humans.
This might be a mental framing problem, or an individual variance in brain wiring, so I don't want to over-generalize the experience of myself and others referenced above. It has been quite easy for me to find / create meaning in solving problems, making satisfying choices, figuring out cool insights, envisioning and willing into existence projects, meaningful relationships, increasing my bench press etc. Even though I also fully understand none of these activities, or anything else in the universe, has any objective meaning. Perhaps something around wiring creates some individual preferences / interests in different domains (or lack thereof) hence some people might have more domains they are excited about and others less.

In terms of hedonic biological itches, this I think is quite standard - few people would find sustainable meaning or happiness in purely hedonic experiences (hedonic treadmill makes this even harder).

You did however mention at least two more eudaemonic things you found enjoyable - coding and figuring out interesting philosophical insights, and maybe some interesting stories told through books, movies or songs. This is probably what most people would define as meaningful experiences for you - although not in the sense of some objective universal meaning of existence of which there is no evidence. It could be a good place to start and build on. Obvious point being that meaning in my view is not some magic binary light switch but more a journey where you try different things and see if they work, like most things in life.

There might be also something about what we are in control of and what we are not, with a lot of interesting things residing in a gray area where we have some control but not perfect control. Some examples from your post above:
  • "the second is not - that's the crux. as a wise human once said, brute can do what he wants, but he can't want what he wants. just as Elon Musk didn't choose to strive for space or power over reality, and Ray Dalio didn't choose to get excited by platitudes and financial markets, brute doesn't get to choose what he wants." - there is probably a mix of creation and discovery in these things. I certainly feel a good deal of control over my desires, over what I want to want. E.g., it is known that humans start enjoying more something they achieve mastery in. Hence one hack is to power through a skill to get good at it at which point you start wanting to do it more. There is also a more direct way to do it where in some ways I can simply decide what to want, although that is certainly perfect control - more choosing to focus on some part of what has already been a domain of my interest. There is also the experiential way. Ray Dalio developed an interest in the markets from having an experience of making money by luck on a near-bankrupt company stock. Elon Musk probably developed an interest in space from reading a lot of science fiction and then by conscious analysis of what a meaningful thing to do with his PayPal payout would be. These are all experiences which can be manufactured to create / discover such interests (I think from practical standpoint it is somewhere between "create" and "discover").
    "set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless" - "meaningless" and "boring" are both subjective characteristics. Hence life is only meaningless and boring if you choose to make it so - both in reality by not going after meaningful and/or exciting experiences and in perception by choosing to believe your experiences are meaningless and boring.
It might be also that Brute simply enjoys deriving meaning from demonstrating how deep, insightful, logically rigorous and different his perspective on life and universe is on an online forum :)

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Re: brute journal

Post by henrik » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:00 am

BRUTE wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:38 am
a nice cup of coffee on a Saturday morning while realizing that there is no need to do laundry any time soon
I just had one of those. Cheers!

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Re: brute journal

Post by suomalainen » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm

brute should probably figure out a system of various affordable, reliable, dopamine inducing activities that he can cycle so that one will replace the other before any reach saturation. in a sense, this is probably what most humans do - set up a personally tailored hamster wheel that lets them run along and forget the truth - that life is boring and meaningless. brute is just a bit more cynical about it than most humans.
This thought occurred to me a few days ago also while reading another thread (forget which one), where I think brute made the point that doing anything (scuba diving) for 40 hours a week would get boring.

Rather than web-of-goals, my “mindfulness / be present in the moment” project is converging on web-of-pleasant-distractions.

Edit: the ere part of pleasing distractions is that such distractions are more stoic in the “one with nature” sense rather than the consumerist sense. Of course, brute would suggest that such a proclivity is not one of my choosing.

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daylen
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Re: brute journal

Post by daylen » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:19 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm

Rather than web-of-goals, my “mindfulness / be present in the moment” project is converging on web-of-pleasant-distractions.

Edit: the ere part of pleasing distractions is that such distractions are more stoic in the “one with nature” sense rather than the consumerist sense. Of course, brute would suggest that such a proclivity is not one of my choosing.
Well said.

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Fish
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Re: brute journal

Post by Fish » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:48 pm

@Finn - Nice contribution. So it seems ERE is now the following?

1. Establish 50%+ savings rate
2. Pay off debt and accumulate FU emergency fund
3. Settle into a comfortable job situation
4. Web-of-pleasant-distractions
5. Live happily after after?

I can't help but imagine Jacob drawing some parallel to the popularization of long-distance running where event participation is inversely proportional to distance (compare marathons, half-marathons, and 5k races). The recent discussion questioning the utility of achieving FI is shifting the focus to happiness in the present, which is all well and good but has the effect of promoting laziness when it comes to spending efficiency?

The first 3 times I read the ERE book, I felt that the major shortcoming was that Jacob was designing and promoting a lifestyle solely around saving money. Who would want to live a life like that? Isn't there more to life than money? But now I recognize it as part of the genius of the ERE philosophy, as the fastest route to FI requires that all actions are homeotelically aligned with the purpose of earning and saving money. Popularization of FI/RE subculture means that it's going to attract non-purists like me (us?) who are not interested in the extreme pursuit of FI for its own sake. We'll just take the bits and pieces of ERE that are aligned with our unique goals, and leave the rest alone.

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Re: brute journal

Post by suomalainen » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:58 pm

@fish not to hijack brute’s journal (or speak for him), but I think what brute might say is that if saving money is jacob’s thing or building shit is mmm’s thing, that’s great, but 1) it’s not what they wanted to want in any event and 2) if my wants don’t line up with theirs a) I can/should align my life with the wants given me because b) I can’t want anything different anyhow.

Laziness w/r/t spending efficiency is optional since more efficiency is better at obtaining the can’t-be-changed-desire for web-of-pleasant-distractions, one of which is work (at 24 hours a week, I think was brute’s sweetspot).

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:52 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:58 pm
what brute might say is that if saving money is jacob’s thing or building shit is mmm’s thing, that’s great, but 1) it’s not what they wanted to want in any event and 2) if my wants don’t line up with theirs a) I can/should align my life with the wants given me because b) I can’t want anything different anyhow.
brute likes ERE over MMM for exactly this reason, ERE is much more high-level. ERE does not say "Dear Leader Jacob enjoys physics and lentils, therefore all humans should do physics and eat lentils". Dear Leader Jacob merely uses himself as an example. MMM is a(t least one) level below that, saying "MMM enjoys hammering on wood and plaid shirts and hiking, so all humans should do it, because it's enjoyable".

just to clarify.

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BRUTE
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Re: brute journal

Post by BRUTE » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:57 pm

suomalainen wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:54 pm
Rather than web-of-goals, my “mindfulness / be present in the moment” project is converging on web-of-pleasant-distractions.

Edit: the ere part of pleasing distractions is that such distractions are more stoic in the “one with nature” sense rather than the consumerist sense. Of course, brute would suggest that such a proclivity is not one of my choosing.
brute likes the "web of pleasant distractions".

he would also suggest that the "ERE-ness" of distractions isn't dictated by the "one with nature/stoic" vs. "consumerist" dimension, but by the "sustainability" dimension. heroin is a great distraction, but to most humans, not very sustainable. neither is flushing money down the toilet. in this sense, "consumerism" is anti-ERE not because of some moral deficiency, but because, by definition, it consumes resources. "productionism" isn't pro-ERE because of plaid shirts and lumberjacks being morally superior, but because production produces things that can then be consumed, thus creating a cycle of sustainability.

thus, some of the pleasant distractions being productive helps sustain the (inevitable) consumerist ones. sustaining life by default consumes resources, and a web of pleasant distractions with only 1 producing distraction (work?) and 5 consuming ones isn't very antifragile.

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