ERE kids?

How to explain ERE, arranging family matters
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pukingRainbows
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:56 pm

ERE kids?

Post by pukingRainbows » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:46 pm

How are all of you raising your kids? Or how would you? Or how did you?
What are your ideas about parenting?
Do you try to foster a sense of ERE? If so, how?

I had something of a spartan childhood and while it was difficult in many ways, I learned a lot from it and it definitely shaped who I am today. Even so, I'd rather not put my children through what I experienced and so I'm hoping to figure out some better approaches in parenting.

Please do share your ideas and stories! Thank you in advance.

Dragline
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by Dragline » Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:15 am

Well, the question is probably too broad -- you will find different answers for different parents and children.

But I think probably some of the best principles are (1) spend as much time as you can with them, especially before they become teenagers -- after that, quality time definitely trumps quantity; (2) teach that "doing" is better than "having" both from inward (self) and outward (society) perspectives; (3) try to find a balance between directing/guiding and letting them discover for themselves -- "controlled failure" is usually the balance you are looking for; and (4) don't be a hypocrite.

IF you are looking for a theory, the pedogogical theories of Maria Montessori that you will also find in organizations like the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts probably work the best, because they are based on "learning by doing and teaching others", but you have to get personally involved -- farming out parenting to others really doesn't work. This little lecture from a Dutch Montessori educator circa 2001 encapsulates a lot of what I mean:

"This wish stems from my opinion that education as given by parents is far more
important for children than school teaching can ever be. School did a good job in the
20th century. It taught all children how to read and write and conveyed the
principles of arithmetic to them. This was more than most parents could do, since
they hadn't mastered these things themselves and moreover they were busy for
more than forty hours a week to earn a living.

The next century we will see a working week of three or four days and parents who
know the three R's. So the opportunity arises for them to pay more attention to their
children; to take over a part of the tasks that belong to the school now. But in this
case they must be trained so that they know what to do."

http://www.kelpin.nl/fred/download/scou ... robert.pdf

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jennypenny
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Location: Stepford USA

Re: ERE kids?

Post by jennypenny » Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:03 am

I have always argued that you should raise your kids ERE-style because I think it's too hard (and a little disingenuous) to raise them 'normally' and then tell them they should learn to live differently as an adult. Others I respect disagree with that. The best method is probably somewhere in the middle.

This somewhat crazy thread has some ideas buried in it ... http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com ... f=7&t=3895

This one is probably better ... http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com ... =16&t=4878

ThisDinosaur
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:12 am

I've always intended to instill my future-oriented thinking on my kids. But I'm aware that children often aim to be as little like their parents as possible. I'm not sure how to deal with that.

My unhealthy relationship with money (compulsively saving, penny pinching) was heavily influenced by my parents having the exact opposite behavior. They are now in heavy debt, with no retirement savings. When my mom is physically too old to work, I'll probably be taking care of them. Maybe if grandma and grandpa have to move in at some point, it can set a precedent in the family; i.e., my kids can be my backup retirement plan. #WebOfGoals

cmonkey
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by cmonkey » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:38 am

We are planning to raise ours with the same lifestyle that we currently have. I'm not sure how I'd do it otherwise. Their financial education will be fully FI-oriented with all the bells and whistles. What they do with it is up to them.

I have definitely given up any hope of them turning out like me (Fourth Turning style) and will be happy if they embrace even part of what I find valuable. I planning to go into the whole thing expecting them to turn into little come-of-age hippie muckrakers. :lol:

pukingRainbows
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by pukingRainbows » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:23 am

@dragline - I'm not so interested in theory as much as practical approaches. I do agree that parental involvement is key and I'm just figuring out how that takes shape. The guidelines you laid out are excellent starting points. Thank you.

@JP - I've only read one of those threads so far (Kids on ERE) and I'm still digesting the discussion. My take is that ERE is my go-to approach. It is my current thinking and similar to cmonkey, it will naturally be the lifestyle for the family. Anything above will be discussed and decided on as a family.

@ThisDinosaur - I'm currently making peace with the idea that my kids will be their own persons. I will try to be supportive and not too judgemental of their choices if they contradict my own ideas.

@cmonkey - This is my thinking too. You provide them with useful tools and ultimately it's up to them to apply them.

In general, I find parenting to be a very difficult discussion to have as people are often very defensive and stubborn in their ideas of what is best. There's so much of it that is a reflection of their own upbringing and so it's brings with it a lot of emotion and personal experience.

I appreciate all of you sharing your thoughts.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:02 pm

Was anyone who posts here retired before starting a family? Or while there kids were little? My impression is we've got folks without kids, people with grown kids, and wannabes in accumulation like me.

The Old Man
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by The Old Man » Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:15 pm

Remember, what ever you do, it is about setting the example. Don't talk, do.

7Wannabe5
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:11 pm

My kids are in their late 20s now. We recently had a discussion in which we laughingly agreed that I had raised them to believe that some variety of 80% bone-basic/scavenger and 20% best available/luxury was ideal. It's funny how both the phase where they rebel against you and the phase where they exhibit what you modeled can cause you chagrin or amusement. For instance, my daughter once stated very firmly for the record "When I grow up I will make a lot of money so that I can buy a brand new house where there are no spiders in the bathroom.", but then 10 years later she was to be found wading through a semi-tropical swamp counting much bigger spiders. And it has become very apparent over the course of the last decade that I taught my son that haircuts are something that your mother does with clippers and the practice is to be abandoned completely after the age of 18. He is blonde, very thin and 6'3", so some of his neighbors have nicknamed him White Jesus.

Oh, but we had some fun those years when they were running around in grayed cloth diapers held up by ratty rubber pants and helping me bake muffins with Food Auction oatmeal.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:37 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:11 pm
He is blonde, very thin and 6'3", so some of his neighbors have nicknamed him White Jesus.
Thor!
General Snoopy wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:15 pm
Remember, what ever you do, it is about setting the example. Don't talk, do.
Setting an example for who? My kids or for other people who want to retire early with kids? Because the first is way more important. As for the second, I think of lifestyle design like I think of new electronics. I want the 2nd generation to market, after all the bugs have been worked out.

The Old Man
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by The Old Man » Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:04 pm

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:37 am
General Snoopy wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:15 pm
Remember, what ever you do, it is about setting the example. Don't talk, do.
Setting an example for who? My kids or for other people who want to retire early with kids? Because the first is way more important. As for the second, I think of lifestyle design like I think of new electronics. I want the 2nd generation to market, after all the bugs have been worked out.
Setting an example for your children. Kids are inspired far more by what you do, then what you say.

7Wannabe5
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:03 am

Re: ERE kids?

Post by 7Wannabe5 » Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:14 am

Another thing to remember is that kids are hugely influenced by their peers, so one of the biggest influences you can exert as a parent is facilitation of peer association. I raised my kids in a small rural Norman Rockwell like town which was also a bedroom community for a major university. The kids of the university-commuters and local stay-at-home Moms/wives of farmers/lawyers who took charge of the drama club or designed and sewed all the costumes for the 6 year old ballerinas or did docent duty at the local historical society, naturally gravitated towards each other, and my kids still have very good friends they have known since they were 5 years old. On the down side, either my ex and/or I had to deal with a terrible commute through deer country for a good many years, and the big, beautiful old historic barn of a house we lived in was a major resource suck.

ThisDinosaur
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Re: ERE kids?

Post by ThisDinosaur » Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:48 am

7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:14 am
Another thing to remember is that kids are hugely influenced by their peers, so one of the biggest influences you can exert as a parent is facilitation of peer association.
This is a really, really good point. Especially by the time they become teenagers, kids are much more like the kids they hang out with than their parents. Even to the point of regional accents and vocabulary. The stereotype of parents worrying about "the wrong crowd" is legit.

BlueNote
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: ERE kids?

Post by BlueNote » Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:04 am

ThisDinosaur wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:48 am
7Wannabe5 wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2017 5:14 am
Another thing to remember is that kids are hugely influenced by their peers, so one of the biggest influences you can exert as a parent is facilitation of peer association.
This is a really, really good point. Especially by the time they become teenagers, kids are much more like the kids they hang out with than their parents. Even to the point of regional accents and vocabulary. The stereotype of parents worrying about "the wrong crowd" is legit.
My high school friends and girlfriends were mostly characters that I wouldn't want my own children to hang around. On average they were unambitious, unreliable and had, relative to their age group, very bad judgement. I was influenced by them at the time. I'm quite lucky that I didn't end up with a teenage pregnancy, driving accident, drug habit or some other major long term problem originating from that period. I ended up going "far" relatively speaking and my group of friends changed as I "moved up". I just can't be friends with a dumb ex-con high school drop out with a minor drug problem anymore, but when I was 15 it seemed perfectly normal. It's definitely important, in most cases, to control the peer groups IMHO. Most of the people on this board seem like the type I would have barely known in primary/secondary school because they probably excelled in school, achieved fine goals early in life and are now able to do ERE in their 20'3/30s. I'm just pointing out to anyone here considering having children that your kid(s) will likely revert to the mean somewhat (more like my high school slacker friends) and you'll need to control for some factors that you don't have first hand experience in.

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