I could say quite a bit about myself, but am interested in what people have to say about their relationships.
How did you convince your sweetie or the rest of your family about the advantages of being such a cheapskate?
Do they admire your attitude?
Was this something the two of you enthusiastically share?
Or is it like pulling teeth to get the other half to be a "good sport"?
Have your "odd" ideas about not being a consumer been a liability in a search for finding a mate?
Hey, the only thing missing here is a section for the lonely hearts...who wanna get together and play. Well, God makes 'em - and they find each other, right? Maybe it's easier to get together with someone here than it is to "convince" someone that your cheapie lifestyle is admirable.
Feel as if I've found my crowd - people who get what I've been doing my whole life. What else do people have to say about this here?
The Personals Section...
I can't speak for everyone here, but I personally think it's easier to find a mate who is already a cheapskate than to find a normal mate and then convince them that being a cheapskate is desirable.
Personally, I found a woman who was raised in a really poor family environment, so being a cheapskate was very normal for her...I did this intentionally, for this very reason. <grin>
Personally, I found a woman who was raised in a really poor family environment, so being a cheapskate was very normal for her...I did this intentionally, for this very reason. <grin>
When my husband and I met we were both broke and just-outta-high-school in part-time retail jobs, with no debt because no one would give us credit. So we lived really cheaply. And then we found out that the government and banks and credit card companies LOVE to give money to university students... Well, after a pointed conversation in the parking lot with my mother one day, we came to our senses on that little fiasco.
However now I have a problem: my husband's learned how little it takes to do well, and how easy it is to buy things -- even "expensive" things -- with cash on a low income if you just save for them and shop around. So now he keeps wanting Stuff. And I just want to save for FI. (Two different people have two different priorities! Shock! Awe!
)
He is quite proud of how little I can feed us for, though. Food is one area where we're sticklers for certain quality guidelines. When the grocery budget is short he 'll hand the whole thing over to me and tell me to work my magic. Which I always do.
He loves the idea of retiring early, but in practice is not so extreme.
Singles would be very wise to discuss finances and retirement when getting into a serious relationship. We never did, but we share a basic compatibility to the same rough orientation regarding debt and savings (man we lucked out). Then again, when we were dating, ERE didn't exist as a website or a book. I did read YMOYL in high school, though. And I read parts of it with him, though that may have been after we were married and not before.
However now I have a problem: my husband's learned how little it takes to do well, and how easy it is to buy things -- even "expensive" things -- with cash on a low income if you just save for them and shop around. So now he keeps wanting Stuff. And I just want to save for FI. (Two different people have two different priorities! Shock! Awe!
)He is quite proud of how little I can feed us for, though. Food is one area where we're sticklers for certain quality guidelines. When the grocery budget is short he 'll hand the whole thing over to me and tell me to work my magic. Which I always do.
He loves the idea of retiring early, but in practice is not so extreme.
Singles would be very wise to discuss finances and retirement when getting into a serious relationship. We never did, but we share a basic compatibility to the same rough orientation regarding debt and savings (man we lucked out). Then again, when we were dating, ERE didn't exist as a website or a book. I did read YMOYL in high school, though. And I read parts of it with him, though that may have been after we were married and not before.
Nice topic, I am looking forward to reading more!
GF is a more of a natural minimalist than I am. She has a inclination to create detailed plans and keeping a clean household. My inclinations are meal planning, efficiency, and fitness.
She appreciates my interests and intentions in ERE, but she also enjoys dining out, bar outings, and traveling.
GF is a more of a natural minimalist than I am. She has a inclination to create detailed plans and keeping a clean household. My inclinations are meal planning, efficiency, and fitness.
She appreciates my interests and intentions in ERE, but she also enjoys dining out, bar outings, and traveling.
-
George the original one
- Posts: 5406
- Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:28 am
- Location: Wettest corner of Orygun
Apart from keeping secrets, a majority of strife couples is triggered by money squabbles. Somebody spends too much (or doesn't like the limitations), somebody else doesn't earn enough (or have enough ambition).
It's a lot easier when the boundaries for money are agreed upon and the necessary compromises are mutual. If the trust for those boundaries is broken, then other areas of the relationship are endangered.
***
In my marriage, we agree that getting me to an early retirement is a goal we both want while wife is stay-at-home (not retired). On the other hand, there are certain trappings of conventionality that we both desire (one solid roomy house, cars, workshop, land, garden, privacy, computers, fast internet). We balance the goal and desires against the real world intrusions (elderly parents, povery-stricken siblings & their offspring, golden-handcuff-pension).
Her strengths are being prepared for the world when leaving the house and mine is careful spontenaity. Consequently it always seems to me like we're taking too much stuff for a daytrip to the beach, but we also never get "trapped in an adventure". She makes sure the bills are paid because she's better that way and I do the investing as she isn't interested.
We've considered various lifestyles, visualising the daily ins & outs, such as living in an RV, and know that we wouldn't be happy in such situations for more than a year. Downsizing the house as a route to an earlier retirement is on the table, but it's not a realistic option until my mom has passed away (she's 91 now) and I've reached age 53 (the pension handcuff).
Thus we've got a lowish savings rate, 40% of takehome as I last recall, which is adequate for the goals set above.
It's a lot easier when the boundaries for money are agreed upon and the necessary compromises are mutual. If the trust for those boundaries is broken, then other areas of the relationship are endangered.
***
In my marriage, we agree that getting me to an early retirement is a goal we both want while wife is stay-at-home (not retired). On the other hand, there are certain trappings of conventionality that we both desire (one solid roomy house, cars, workshop, land, garden, privacy, computers, fast internet). We balance the goal and desires against the real world intrusions (elderly parents, povery-stricken siblings & their offspring, golden-handcuff-pension).
Her strengths are being prepared for the world when leaving the house and mine is careful spontenaity. Consequently it always seems to me like we're taking too much stuff for a daytrip to the beach, but we also never get "trapped in an adventure". She makes sure the bills are paid because she's better that way and I do the investing as she isn't interested.
We've considered various lifestyles, visualising the daily ins & outs, such as living in an RV, and know that we wouldn't be happy in such situations for more than a year. Downsizing the house as a route to an earlier retirement is on the table, but it's not a realistic option until my mom has passed away (she's 91 now) and I've reached age 53 (the pension handcuff).
Thus we've got a lowish savings rate, 40% of takehome as I last recall, which is adequate for the goals set above.
I mirror George Original in many ways. I want a lot, but want it all on the cheap/reasonable/lower end/less expensive side of the house.
Probably were it not for me the wife would still have the first dollar she ever earned. And that dollar would be stretched from coast to coast. She has the skill to do it.
We have always lived the normal life, but in a highly frugal mode. We bought a few new vehicles, but mostly drove them into the ground. We now buy the 2 to 4 year old vehicles, and again, drive them long term. Our house was bought and built in the 1970's, back when homes were reasonable in price. We did not go McMansion in our 40's or 50's, even though we easily could have. No need or want to have a trophy house. We improved our 1970's home several times, doing most of the labor ourselves. We carefully, and at good prices, added things to our lives. No going out and buying to impress anyone. We save well and shop well. We wound up with good retirement incomes through our careers and investments.
Credit all goes to the wife, she is the hero financially. We wear 15 year old clothes, no one to impress--EVER.
When my daughter was 30 years old, I still had some of the shirts I wore when she was born. That was when JC Penney sold quality clothes, not like they do today, selling cheap imported crap. When we buy big ticket we discuss, shop, plan, and strike when the iron is hot, if possible. We cringe when we see people wasting so much money on needless crap, and things to impress others. We do not look at the Jones next door, except to laugh at them. Our Jones has a new truck, a new car, two $10,000 motorcycles, all financed and they have a large mortgage. Plus his divorced daughter and her two kids just moved back in with them. Nothing like three more mouths to feed, is there? Also, our Jones will probably work (both of them) until eternity.
My wife is the family hero here, bar-none. I feel fortunate indeed.
Probably were it not for me the wife would still have the first dollar she ever earned. And that dollar would be stretched from coast to coast. She has the skill to do it.
We have always lived the normal life, but in a highly frugal mode. We bought a few new vehicles, but mostly drove them into the ground. We now buy the 2 to 4 year old vehicles, and again, drive them long term. Our house was bought and built in the 1970's, back when homes were reasonable in price. We did not go McMansion in our 40's or 50's, even though we easily could have. No need or want to have a trophy house. We improved our 1970's home several times, doing most of the labor ourselves. We carefully, and at good prices, added things to our lives. No going out and buying to impress anyone. We save well and shop well. We wound up with good retirement incomes through our careers and investments.
Credit all goes to the wife, she is the hero financially. We wear 15 year old clothes, no one to impress--EVER.
When my daughter was 30 years old, I still had some of the shirts I wore when she was born. That was when JC Penney sold quality clothes, not like they do today, selling cheap imported crap. When we buy big ticket we discuss, shop, plan, and strike when the iron is hot, if possible. We cringe when we see people wasting so much money on needless crap, and things to impress others. We do not look at the Jones next door, except to laugh at them. Our Jones has a new truck, a new car, two $10,000 motorcycles, all financed and they have a large mortgage. Plus his divorced daughter and her two kids just moved back in with them. Nothing like three more mouths to feed, is there? Also, our Jones will probably work (both of them) until eternity.
My wife is the family hero here, bar-none. I feel fortunate indeed.
Spencer, your lifestyle sounds like how my parents live. They taught me to live below my means and to use a credit card ONLY if I can pay it off in full. They ran everything they bought into the ground. My favorite example is their old microwave. They had that thing for as long as I could remember. It was the first microwave I ever used. They didn't replace it until I was in my early 20's and the door finally cracked!
My boyfriend, who has yet to man up enough to be considered my partner, is currently my financial opposite. He is drowning in consumer debt and student loans (he dropped out a semester shy of graduation...ugh). He has poor impulse control and seems to be completely incapable of seeing more than five minutes in to the future (unless it involves a new video game release). I got tired of supporting him and he is now living back with his parents so they can hopefully finish raising him.
M has it right on- it would have been much easier on me if I had fallen in love with another self-proclaimed cheap-o.
My boyfriend, who has yet to man up enough to be considered my partner, is currently my financial opposite. He is drowning in consumer debt and student loans (he dropped out a semester shy of graduation...ugh). He has poor impulse control and seems to be completely incapable of seeing more than five minutes in to the future (unless it involves a new video game release). I got tired of supporting him and he is now living back with his parents so they can hopefully finish raising him.
M has it right on- it would have been much easier on me if I had fallen in love with another self-proclaimed cheap-o.
I think you absolutely have to find someone who is on the same financial page for a successful, long-term relationship. I know of what I speak. Husband #1 was a wanna-be actor (read: no income), husband #2 had the first dollar he ever earned but was a money-hoarder (read: he will need that $3 million+ before he even considers retiring, saving for the sake of stockpiling cash is not what I'm after) and husband #3 was just plain lazy AND a spendthrift (with my earnings, of course).
Future Husband #4 (current BF, shhhh don't tell him) is debt-free, savings secure, and ERE minded. He is also handy, grew up in the country (read: understands how shit WORKS), and loves my home cooking way more than dining out. (We make an exception for sushi.) He is still raising his 2 boys (8, 10) and I'm still raising my son (6), but we are on track to be done being wage slaves as soon as those birds are out of the nest(s), if not sooner. We don't live together, which increases some of what would otherwise be combined expenses, lik housing and gas expenses (we live an hour apart), but it works for us mainly because we DO agree on so many (what we find) important aspects of life. "Don't go changin', to try to please me..." because we all know that sh*t never works.
Future Husband #4 (current BF, shhhh don't tell him) is debt-free, savings secure, and ERE minded. He is also handy, grew up in the country (read: understands how shit WORKS), and loves my home cooking way more than dining out. (We make an exception for sushi.) He is still raising his 2 boys (8, 10) and I'm still raising my son (6), but we are on track to be done being wage slaves as soon as those birds are out of the nest(s), if not sooner. We don't live together, which increases some of what would otherwise be combined expenses, lik housing and gas expenses (we live an hour apart), but it works for us mainly because we DO agree on so many (what we find) important aspects of life. "Don't go changin', to try to please me..." because we all know that sh*t never works.
I got lucky too. My husband has the same outlook on life in the sense of living the way we want, not in the way we think other people might approve of. A shared desire to keep educating ourselves and challenging our way of life along the way.
Richard Wiseman did some research on luck (The Luck Factor). Lucky people (i.e. people who considered themselves lucky) usually stayed with their partners long-term and were a good fit. And this was due to the initial ‘work’: the ‘difficult’ talking points of money, career, children etc were had right at the beginning of the relationship. So not really luck at all, just some (in my eyes) essential research on whether you’d like to spend the rest of your life with this person. Still, no guarantee, I know. Life happens to the most prepared people too, but at least some aspects may be ironed out.
Richard Wiseman did some research on luck (The Luck Factor). Lucky people (i.e. people who considered themselves lucky) usually stayed with their partners long-term and were a good fit. And this was due to the initial ‘work’: the ‘difficult’ talking points of money, career, children etc were had right at the beginning of the relationship. So not really luck at all, just some (in my eyes) essential research on whether you’d like to spend the rest of your life with this person. Still, no guarantee, I know. Life happens to the most prepared people too, but at least some aspects may be ironed out.
My experience is that people can change over time, if they are intelligent and reasonable.
My wife's family is financially incompetent. They buy cars that are more than a years salary, have multiple storage units to hold things they don't even remember they have, and say things like "you can't take it with you" to defend spending money they don't really have. She grew up in this environment and learned to be like them. But we fell in love, and that was that.
Over the past 7 years of marriage, we've both changed quite a bit. Financially, she has learned to buy things used, save money, invest wisely, and value our time. It's taken a long time and a lot of patience, but she's seen the light. She laughs at the old her all the time ("WHY did I buy THAT?").
The best part is that at 33 years old, we are only 2 years away from retirement, and are on target to retire well before her 61 year old parents.
My wife's family is financially incompetent. They buy cars that are more than a years salary, have multiple storage units to hold things they don't even remember they have, and say things like "you can't take it with you" to defend spending money they don't really have. She grew up in this environment and learned to be like them. But we fell in love, and that was that.
Over the past 7 years of marriage, we've both changed quite a bit. Financially, she has learned to buy things used, save money, invest wisely, and value our time. It's taken a long time and a lot of patience, but she's seen the light. She laughs at the old her all the time ("WHY did I buy THAT?").
The best part is that at 33 years old, we are only 2 years away from retirement, and are on target to retire well before her 61 year old parents.
I think people can change, but usually change must come from within. In other words, thy have to want to change... You can't make them. Sure you can help them see another point of view, but if thy don't ultimately accept that point if view, any change will be superficial and short lived.
PS - my phone initially autocorrected that first part to read "I think proletariat can change.". I wonder what the responses to that would have been!
PS - my phone initially autocorrected that first part to read "I think proletariat can change.". I wonder what the responses to that would have been!
I think that an exciting but rarely mentioned benefit of FI/ERE is all the extra time for romance and sex. What to do with all those decades you're not working? Well, have sex as many times a day as makes you happy in between gardening and reading, or sunrise/sunset walks holding hands and talking about how you feel about everything. Last night, my girlfriend sang to me and I loved it.
@dragoncar I think SOME people can change and that change has to come from within. Some people, in my experience, cannot change. With respect to finance and consumption, most people I meet are not FI/ERE-minded, as I myself wasn't before researching personal finance and investing thoroughly. My parents didn't know it, my teachers don't know it, and it's not in the news/movies/music. So, I give new people a chance to learn, which usually means a used copy of YMOYL, or I show them how to use a spreadsheet to sum their monthly expenses. If they react positively, meaning that they are shocked, then that's a good sign, and I give them other books (Jacob's, Millionaire Next Door series). If they don't read the book or track their expenses for a short time, then that is not such a good sign.
@M I think finding a poor person can be a good idea. I myself was raised poor, miserly even, and my girlfriend was also. There is the danger here, though, of people having wanted for their whole lives the things other people around them had in school, in the neighborhood, in college, as adults. I find that many people who were raised poor, including myself, have the idea that they should get rich, in the sense of expensive luxuries, not in the sense of FI/ERE, and that it can be very hard for people to give up these long-cherished desires and dreams. I was impressed that my girlfriend was able to do this, but I have seen few other people able to do so. Another thing I found was that as a poor person who made enough money to live my poor person's image of a rich life, I felt some emotional resistance to going back to living like a poor person in terms or consumption, not investing. On the other hand, once I healed that emotional resistance, I felt very comfortable with returning to long-familiar frugal habits. This is especially true because I was raised miserly and am now as an adult able to spend money on all the things that make me happy, so I can be frugal while being as happy as possible.
I think part of the problem is that not having that toy that your neighbor had as a child was a very painfully felt experience, while the feeling of financial security is unknown to people who've never had it, and the feeling FI seems illusory or hallucinatory. One way around this is to create the feeling for somebody - get them to save and they'll start to feel the security and freedom, but they may not prioritize it highly enough, so emphasive it's importance.
I think a variation of finding a poor person is finding somebody from a less developed country. Although they, too, may want the good life or the American dream, understood expensively, they, like poor Americans, do not the lifelong habit of luxury.
@dragoncar I think SOME people can change and that change has to come from within. Some people, in my experience, cannot change. With respect to finance and consumption, most people I meet are not FI/ERE-minded, as I myself wasn't before researching personal finance and investing thoroughly. My parents didn't know it, my teachers don't know it, and it's not in the news/movies/music. So, I give new people a chance to learn, which usually means a used copy of YMOYL, or I show them how to use a spreadsheet to sum their monthly expenses. If they react positively, meaning that they are shocked, then that's a good sign, and I give them other books (Jacob's, Millionaire Next Door series). If they don't read the book or track their expenses for a short time, then that is not such a good sign.
@M I think finding a poor person can be a good idea. I myself was raised poor, miserly even, and my girlfriend was also. There is the danger here, though, of people having wanted for their whole lives the things other people around them had in school, in the neighborhood, in college, as adults. I find that many people who were raised poor, including myself, have the idea that they should get rich, in the sense of expensive luxuries, not in the sense of FI/ERE, and that it can be very hard for people to give up these long-cherished desires and dreams. I was impressed that my girlfriend was able to do this, but I have seen few other people able to do so. Another thing I found was that as a poor person who made enough money to live my poor person's image of a rich life, I felt some emotional resistance to going back to living like a poor person in terms or consumption, not investing. On the other hand, once I healed that emotional resistance, I felt very comfortable with returning to long-familiar frugal habits. This is especially true because I was raised miserly and am now as an adult able to spend money on all the things that make me happy, so I can be frugal while being as happy as possible.
I think part of the problem is that not having that toy that your neighbor had as a child was a very painfully felt experience, while the feeling of financial security is unknown to people who've never had it, and the feeling FI seems illusory or hallucinatory. One way around this is to create the feeling for somebody - get them to save and they'll start to feel the security and freedom, but they may not prioritize it highly enough, so emphasive it's importance.
I think a variation of finding a poor person is finding somebody from a less developed country. Although they, too, may want the good life or the American dream, understood expensively, they, like poor Americans, do not the lifelong habit of luxury.
-
JerseyGirl
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:00 am
I think that finding someone who is already living a frugal lifestyle and practices delayed gratification in most if not all areas of their life is key to ERE.
I don't know if getting legally married is really wise for an ERE-er. Divorce will eviscerate the savings you have built up, so really it's a huge gamble. Even if your spouse is great with money, you never know when some greedy bimbo will lure him into her arms and run off with half of your savings!
I don't know if getting legally married is really wise for an ERE-er. Divorce will eviscerate the savings you have built up, so really it's a huge gamble. Even if your spouse is great with money, you never know when some greedy bimbo will lure him into her arms and run off with half of your savings!
-
Beaudacious
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:59 pm
- Contact:
I would agree with the consensus that it's easier to find someone who is already frugal, but I'd add that important things to look for in a mate are similar / complimentary long-term goals. Being frugal is fine, but it should be a choice that fits into the grand scheme. Money is just a tool to get what you want and need out of life. Money issues between couples happen because their individual needs and desires aren't being met.